In the lastest version of lazer (11/16/2024), when you use a touchscreen to play, no matter what style do you use, the game will automatically add the td (touch device) mod in every scores you set. Which means it also nerfs any drag play and players like Bonk. I think playing drag on a touchscreen does not give that much adventage as the traditional touchscreen playstyle. I might help you at aim or not require muscle memory as tablet or mouse but it adds a lot of blind spots. It is a huge disadventage for reading (hidden, cross x-axis jumps, ect). Another reason why I want drag should be considered as normal playsyle is that it will encourage more people to try the game on mobile. I would like to see osu! grows in the mobile platform game and might be a mobile osu!community in the future. If you are reading this, thank you so much for listening to my wish. Here the poll to decide whether or not drag should be nerf.
(Sorry if my English was bad)

Im sorry, but its not a coincidence that the only person who ever seriously tried that playstyle is one of the greatest aim control players ever. Additionally, it completely removes the challenge of "mapping" the visual stimulus onto another surface through a tool and not one's hand directly. It is a clear and large advantage.

IMO there should definitely be some nerf, but I don't know how large. Personally, I'm a fan of just applying the TD nerf to all such scores, but if a better solution could be found I wouldn't mind.

i think it should be fully usable with no nerf if dragging

td is cool and also uniquely different while having its own ups and downs when dragging
just like how a tablet or mouse has ups and downs too

ofc when not dragging its objectively better than both but realistically being limited by ur finger/arm speed and ur arm taking up some of ur vision are pretty big downsides for the upside of precision

Duck o-o wrote:

i think it should be fully usable with no nerf if dragging

td is cool and also uniquely different while having its own ups and downs when dragging
just like how a tablet or mouse has ups and downs too

ofc when not dragging its objectively better than both but realistically being limited by ur finger/arm speed and ur arm taking up some of ur vision are pretty big downsides for the upside of precision

A playstyle having "ups and downs" is dangerous. The game is balanced around mouse/tablet+kb. Imagine a keyboard that doubled your speed but halved your aim, a 5 digit could go farm ascension to heaven or rog DT easily and get 1.1k pp. obviously that is an extreme example, but it illustrates my point.

Naiad wrote:

Duck o-o wrote:

i think it should be fully usable with no nerf if dragging

td is cool and also uniquely different while having its own ups and downs when dragging
just like how a tablet or mouse has ups and downs too

ofc when not dragging its objectively better than both but realistically being limited by ur finger/arm speed and ur arm taking up some of ur vision are pretty big downsides for the upside of precision

A playstyle having "ups and downs" is dangerous. The game is balanced around mouse/tablet+kb. Imagine a keyboard that doubled your speed but halved your aim, a 5 digit could go farm ascension to heaven or rog DT easily and get 1.1k pp. obviously that is an extreme example, but it illustrates my point.

all playstyles have ups and downs tho ;-;
and likeee i just dont get why td shouldnt be fine if dragging because its not like it makes things significantly easier
the reason people dont emulate bonk isnt because its like some secret technique that they have kept under wraps and will kill you if you know, its because its hard to do
likeee a bunch of people have touchscreens but as far as ik only bonk has done anything really cool while dragging on them

so why should people be penalised for playing in a different way that doesnt even give many concrete benefits compared to the effort needed to achieve them ;-;

Duck o-o wrote:

Naiad wrote:

Duck o-o wrote:

i think it should be fully usable with no nerf if dragging

td is cool and also uniquely different while having its own ups and downs when dragging
just like how a tablet or mouse has ups and downs too

ofc when not dragging its objectively better than both but realistically being limited by ur finger/arm speed and ur arm taking up some of ur vision are pretty big downsides for the upside of precision

A playstyle having "ups and downs" is dangerous. The game is balanced around mouse/tablet+kb. Imagine a keyboard that doubled your speed but halved your aim, a 5 digit could go farm ascension to heaven or rog DT easily and get 1.1k pp. obviously that is an extreme example, but it illustrates my point.

all playstyles have ups and downs tho ;-;
and likeee i just dont get why td shouldnt be fine if dragging because its not like it makes things significantly easier
the reason people dont emulate bonk isnt because its like some secret technique that they have kept under wraps and will kill you if you know, its because its hard to do
likeee a bunch of people have touchscreens but as far as ik only bonk has done anything really cool while dragging on them

so why should people be penalised for playing in a different way that doesnt even give many concrete benefits compared to the effort needed to achieve them ;-;

It does make things significantly easier. Not much else to say. The mental mapping aspect of the game - a huge part of reading - is gone.

"all playstyles have ups and downs tho ;-;" not an excuse to leave them unbalanced. there's a reason they're working on a rake rework rn

Naiad wrote:

Duck o-o wrote:

Naiad wrote:

Duck o-o wrote:

i think it should be fully usable with no nerf if dragging

td is cool and also uniquely different while having its own ups and downs when dragging
just like how a tablet or mouse has ups and downs too

ofc when not dragging its objectively better than both but realistically being limited by ur finger/arm speed and ur arm taking up some of ur vision are pretty big downsides for the upside of precision

A playstyle having "ups and downs" is dangerous. The game is balanced around mouse/tablet+kb. Imagine a keyboard that doubled your speed but halved your aim, a 5 digit could go farm ascension to heaven or rog DT easily and get 1.1k pp. obviously that is an extreme example, but it illustrates my point.

all playstyles have ups and downs tho ;-;
and likeee i just dont get why td shouldnt be fine if dragging because its not like it makes things significantly easier
the reason people dont emulate bonk isnt because its like some secret technique that they have kept under wraps and will kill you if you know, its because its hard to do
likeee a bunch of people have touchscreens but as far as ik only bonk has done anything really cool while dragging on them

so why should people be penalised for playing in a different way that doesnt even give many concrete benefits compared to the effort needed to achieve them ;-;

It does make things significantly easier. Not much else to say. The mental mapping aspect of the game - a huge part of reading - is gone.

"all playstyles have ups and downs tho ;-;" not an excuse to leave them unbalanced. there's a reason they're working on a rake rework rn

can you explain how it makes things easier overall tho ;-;
like from what i can tell all ur talking about is that u no longer have to figure out where ur pen is on the tablet in relation to the cursor on the screen and the circles

but you then have to not be able to read some of the screen at all times because of arm placement, have to keep your arm in the air all the time, have to move your arm all across the screen repeatedly for anything more than a 3* jump, have to keep your finger on the screen for an extended period or the play will be detected meaning u have resistance, still have to sync your tapping to the aim and have to memorise some patterns due to hand blocking for that

also realistically its just not very practical, mainly cos of the physical requirements

imo if someones jacked enough to zoom their arm around at 250bpm or whatever ur imagining and can hit jumps better than a normal pro/top player with a tablet then they deserve the pp they get from that

As someone who has tried touchscreen drag, it does not feel like an advantage at all. To be fair this is just anecdotal and I haven't really explored this playstyle seriously though.

The ability to actually put your finger on the circle isn't as big of an advantage as it sounds imo. The "mental mapping" aspect honestly feels about the same. It feels very similar to just playing on a tablet or a mouse, like you're doing the exact same thing of moving your arm/finger to aim, it's just that your finger is the cursor you use now instead of a cursor on the screen. With having it be a bit more direct maybe there is an advantage in it being easier for your brain to learn/process, but I would say it's a similar advantage that absolute positioning has over relative positioning in terms of "mental mapping". Theoretically tablets would be better than mice because of this, but in practice it doesn't really make a difference, or at least not enough to where I'd call for a tablet nerf. Besides, I think the main advantages of tablets lie in other places outside of it being theoretically easier for your brain to process anyway.

The disadvantages are real though. Having your arm cover a portion of your screen is not fun, nor is the fact that you're stuck with a massive area relative to what you can get away with when using a mouse or tablet. There is also input lag, if you play with a cursor it will visibly drag behind your finger, so you have to get used to aiming a bit ahead. This isn't the biggest deal though, but you lose a bit of fine control because you can't make small adjustments as well, although I feel like because your finger itself doesn't have input lag it'd alleviate this when you get used to it.

Although it's probably significant to note that the one notable touchscreen drag player is a aim control god, then I'd also think it's significant to note that there is literally only one notable touchscreen drag player in all of osu history outside of probably the very beginning. Touchscreen definitely has a higher barrier of entry, but surely there'd be more than one guy who is able to use it at a high level if it was actually advantageous compared to a tablet/mouse.

They may be working on banning raking but with raking it's really clear that it's an op cheese strat that takes away an important aspect of the game. I don't think dragging with a touchscreen is the same.

I also think non-drag TD should be buffed as well. Yes with the ability to use two hands to aim it should be kept very separate from the more conventional playstyles, but it'd be nice for it to be at least viable in some capacity with lazer on mobile being a thing. Actually now that I think about it I think the best thing would be a separate TD ranking/pp/leaderboard system with the ability to tap with other fingers like with osu droid, but idk maybe all this has been implemented, never played phone lazer.