I have been told to just leave people be when I'm trying to get people into lazer (because lazer is just superior objectively). There seems to be some resistence, why is that the case, and what can we do about it?

Closing stable maybe?

So far, after talking to some people on lazer, some people mentioned some cons:

- lazer "isn't that much better than people would've expected"

- lazer "does worse in general (ex: no proper pp submissions, bad performance (on some machines), unable to submit your maps, missing features for different modes on the editor, requires more modern hardware to run)"

- lazer's "UI doesn't feel consistent, less ability to adjust the user interface to your liking etc etc"

- lazer's "leaderboards can be quite buggy and confusing, most replays aren't available in there as well (for now, which is going to be fixed later)"

Now, from my point of view after playing stable for longer than lazer, some pros:

- lazer allows you to download beatmaps in the game client itself (which you cannot do in stable)

- lazer allows you to add songs to queue without being the host, so you no longer need to rotate host after every song (which you cannot do in stable)

- lazer allows you to start a multiplayer room when you're the only person, you do not need to wait forever for other people to join you (which you cannot do in stable)

- lazer has way more mods to choose from, some of which are very useful for training, for example Difficulty Adjust (which you do not have in stable)

- lazer allows you, the host, to start a match without playing the current song chosen by someone else, which is extremely useful when you do not want to give up the host but still want the game to continue (which you cannot do in stable)

- lazer has more filters for multiplayer rooms, you get to see the minimum and maximum map difficulty in stars of all the rooms at a glance without needing to enter the room (which you do not have in stable)

Now, I have a problem with lazer as well:

- lazer doesn't allow you to invite people into your room (which you can do so in stable)

I'm not denying that lazer still has a long way to go. The question is, how do we convince people that the pros of lazer are worth switching for? I really want more people to migrate from stable to lazer. Closing stable sounds like a great idea, but I doubt it'll happen anytime soon. That's the hard approach. But I am thinking about soft approaches where I can slowly influence some people to join lazer over time, taking things one step at a time.

P.S. I'm only talking about standard mode because that's the only mode I play

Some people are stuborn and want things to stay the same. There is still many issues lazer has (I heard mania isnt very good).

I have received more feedback about the cons of lazer:

- "Osu! Lazer is Laggy that's 1 reason"

- "better skin support, easier map installs and more tutorials/community support /nm"

How important do you think most people find these points, and do you think these are really the main reasons why people wouldn't migrate over to lazer?
I'm not sure what easier map installs mean, I thought it was the opposite, since lazer makes it so convenient to download and install beatmaps in the game client itself.
As for skin support, how crucial is that to most people? To me skins are just a superficial form of accessory that doesn't affect gameplay.
More tutorials and community support is a problem that will resolve itself when more people migrate over to lazer, because then there would be a more active lazer community.
Is lazer really laggy? I don't find it laggy, playing maps below 6 stars.

@BlueChinchompa I agree that some people are tough nuts to crack, but I also believe that people can change their minds. In fact, I believe most people don't even have valid reasons for sticking with stable, and if stable closes tomorrow, they would still gladly play lazer instead of quitting osu altogether. If we want lazer to be more mainstream, we need to:

1. Find the real deal breaker that stops people from migrating to lazer

2. Convince them that the pros outweigh the cons

3. If step 2 doesn't work out, at least we can inform the programmers working on lazer which features should have higher priority

It is like cs2 rn where the base game is there yes but there are small things that makes other players really want to stick with the old version. I can also add multiple reasons why if I cared much bout them I wouldn't switch

1. Having direct access to the skins and songs folders allows me to modify them super easily and since I also do storyboarding and storybrew requires me to point to the .osu file, it doesn't let me make a storyboard unless I download from the website and extract the difficulty I want. That's one of the biggest dealbreakers for me
2. The current customization options like you said are not as good as stable at the moment. Yes you can move, resize and delete many stuff in the gameplay and that's a plus that I gotta give to lazer, the song selection menu is kind of where it falls apart. I really love the customization of the song selection menu in the stable client which even though on lazer it looks and functions pretty well (mostly). The stable's UI with simple filters for song selection through the search and being able to skin the entire menu is really amazing which I hope lazer can come closer to that level
3. While its not really a problem for me but if I'm not mistaken, lazer and stable use different entire servers for their whole game. Now you might say why that makes a problem, well basically since bancho's protocol is known pretty good and multiple good alternative servers exist but when the eventual lazer switch happens, those servers will face with the option of either spending a lot of time switching the whole server architecture to lazer with all of the scores and profile data (don't really know much about the switching procedure from bancho to stable so can't really say much about the difficulty) or just stick with stable which won't get updates after a certain point. This is not a big problem for the lazer or stable considering they're alternative servers but I thought its worth including here.

There is also the fact that humans in their nature doesn't want change that much. Same with osu too. Stable is really good in terms of the actual osu experience while lazer feels much more different, even like an entirely different game to people, including me. So this drives people to stay with stable until the inevitable, which is stable not receiving any updates anymore, happens.

To be honest, even with these drawbacks if you're just a person that enjoys the game and doesn't really care about these cons much, lazer is a really good client. Free osu direct, even more mod combinations with settings for a more fun and unique gameplay, much better multiplayer support including tournament client style spectating for multiplayer lobbies (which is basically, in a way, tourney client but without supporter) and the ability to literally not leave the game to check profiles, beatmaps and forum posts are the major things that really makes lazer leapfrog stable in terms of the actual game. After the pp and ranking update at the end of this year many people will try and maybe switch to lazer since that's literally the biggest thing that keeps players from switching to lazer.

Also a little note, in one week cons that I've said might change and disappear completely since lazer is an ongoing product that is getting new feature updates and fixes according to community requests. So in a few months this post might even be invalid xD

Guess we as the community gotta help the developers to make lazer feel like home for people that comes from the stable.

Personally, it really is just that lazer still has more choppy/unstable fps for me, so even if I can get more fps the experience overall is just worse. especially since I use a 144hz monitor and get more than 288fps on stable already.

that and I map like half the time I open the game, so its still more convenient to just keep using stable. plus for storage reasons I don't want to move until I can delete stable client and not be missing anything.

Once lazer is finally on main servers, runs well enough on my machine (or I get a new pc that it works on, but that's going to be a long time, and my computer really isn't THAT bad.) and the editor is able to upload I will consider moving over and learning to use lazer editor.

Aside from that UI is still pretty uncomfy for me, but the change to be able to split up mapsets when sorting is nice, and was my biggest issue so I could get used to it once some more of the planned changes happen.

Yamete0niiChan wrote:

I have been told to just leave people be when I'm trying to get people into lazer

...for good reason. I mean just recommending something you find cool is one thing, but I get the sense that you were really pushy about it to get this kind of response in the first place lol

Yamete0niiChan wrote:

(because lazer is just superior objectively)

I don't think you know what "objectively" means.

For starters, it could stop using the horrible design language of the new site which feels like it was made for vertical monitors.

But really, is "not missing some of the most basic features of the game" not the obvious answer? Why in god's name are people even humoring the idea of closing stable when you can't even gain ranks or submit maps in lazer??