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[added] [Clarification - Metadata] Clarification on Rule regarding "Featured Artist" Tags

posted
Total Posts
23
Vulkin
1,621 posts
Joined September 2014
Topic Starter
Vulkin
Currently, there is ambiguity whether "Featured Artist" & "FA" should be in the tags of a beatmap whose artist belongs in the FA program, but the song doesn't.
For example, a recent minor discussion here brought up the issue whether the map should have the tags or not.

Such cases generate some ambiguity, and also may clutter the search results when an user is looking for FA beatmaps without using the FA search option.

To avoid such issues, we propose changing the following rule:

  1. If the song mapped is a licensed one in the Featured Artist library, featured artist must be added to tags.

by adding the following guideline:

  1. If the song is by an artist who is a Featured Artist, but the song itself is not included in their listing, then adding featured artist to tags is discouraged.
Last edited by Vulkin , edited 13 times in total.
Maxim-Miau
Beatmap Nominator
106 posts
Joined July 2018
Maxim-Miau
I agree with this proposal because this can avoid confusion about this topic and i also think it makes the most sense to only use ''fa featured artist'' in the tags when the song actually exists on the fa listing
SaltyLucario
1,320 posts
Joined June 2015
SaltyLucario
isnt this already discouraged?
deffo should be clarified in rc
RandomeLoL
Nomination Assessment Team
224 posts
Joined September 2015
RandomeLoL
I'd be in favour of adding an explicit discouragement in the RC. On paper, nothing disallows users from adding them. I believe this should be reserved only to licensed tracks in a similar way "osu!" as a source was clarified to only be used for very specific licensed game content.
enneya
Nomination Assessment Team
387 posts
Joined October 2017
enneya
seems reasonable

better wording maybe for clarity
- **If the song mapped is a licensed one in the [Featured Artist](/wiki/People/Featured_Artists) library, `featured artist` must be added to tags.**
  - You must not add these tags if the song is not part of the artist's licensed track listing, even if they are a Featured Artist.

> unless the song's metadata coincidentally contains the tags
seems a bit too niche to realistically take into account i think
Shad0wStar
Global Moderator
177 posts
Joined April 2020
Shad0wStar
+1 on enneya’s wording
Ryu Sei
2,900 posts
Joined October 2013
Ryu Sei
Yes, please. FA tags must not be added if the song is not in thz FA listing.
Vulkin
1,621 posts
Joined September 2014
Topic Starter
Vulkin

enneya wrote:

seems reasonable

better wording maybe for clarity
- **If the song mapped is a licensed one in the [Featured Artist](/wiki/People/Featured_Artists) library, `featured artist` must be added to tags.**
  - You must not add these tags if the song is not part of the artist's licensed track listing, even if they are a Featured Artist.

> unless the song's metadata coincidentally contains the tags
seems a bit too niche to realistically take into account i think
Seems fair, Thank you!

Just to be 100% safe... if by any chance it does end up happening, could an update be considered by then?
Last edited by Vulkin , edited 2 times in total.
Decku
Beatmap Nominator
197 posts
Joined November 2018
Decku
+1

RandomeLoL wrote:

I'd be in favour of adding an explicit discouragement in the RC. On paper, nothing disallows users from adding them. I believe this should be reserved only to licensed tracks in a similar way "osu!" as a source was clarified to only be used for very specific licensed game content.
I guess you might be right about this Randome, as I believe your train of thought is people understanding that they are a Featured Artist.

Correct Metadata could be fine eitherway honestly.


I also believe some better changes to wording if proposed (as underlined), might be good, for example

BEFORE
If the song mapped is a licensed one in the [Featured Artist] library, `featured artist` must be added to tags. You must not add these tags if the song is not part of the artist's licensed track listing, even if they are a Featured Artist.

AFTER
If the song mapped is a licensed one in the [Featured Artist] library, `featured artist` AND 'fa' must be added to tags. Tags added to songs that are not listed in the artist's Featured Artist Listing although fine, is discouraged.


FA is the acronym for Featured artist, do believe it should be mandatory itself.
At least that's what I think here.

Eitherway the proposition is agreeable. Just how we word it here.
Last edited by Decku , edited 4 times in total.
aceticke
Global Moderator
251 posts
Joined August 2016
aceticke
Don't make FA a required tag and I'm cool w/ this.
Vulkin
1,621 posts
Joined September 2014
Topic Starter
Vulkin

Decku wrote:

AFTER
If the song mapped is a licensed one in the [Featured Artist] library, `featured artist` AND 'fa' must be added to tags. Tags added to songs that are not listed in the artist's Featured Artist Listing although fine, is discouraged.
I think that this wording could be taken as if all songs *could* have the tag IMO.

How about this?

"If the song is by an artist who is part of the program, but the song itself is not included in it, then it's recommended not to add it."

aceticke wrote:

Don't make FA a required tag and I'm cool w/ this.
Agreed.
Ryu Sei
2,900 posts
Joined October 2013
Ryu Sei
This can be split into two points: a rule requiring FA tags (it means no change) and a guideline showing a recommendation to not put FA tags for non-FA entries.

If the song is composed by artists from the Featured Artist program but not listed, 'featured artist' and 'fa' should not be added.

Speaking about rules, we must be clear what is allowed and not. There is no middle ground for it, hence a guideline is more appropiate if we just simply want to discourage the addition, not strictly disallows it.
ikin5050
587 posts
Joined February 2014
ikin5050
Splitting this into two is better as said above

Currently the rule says if it is in the listing then tags must be present. People adding FA tags to songs that aren’t licensed are not following what the rule says anyway? Just because a rule implies a one way truth doesn’t mean you can deduct conditionals from it

I also don’t see the point of discouraging people from adding the tags if it’s inaccurate to add them. Other inaccurate tags are removed so why should these be allowed? There is a very specific reason why some songs are part of the FA program and others are not (sampling copyrights/other commitments/etc.) so falsely advertising as something licensed to osu is just lying
Last edited by ikin5050 , edited 1 time in total.
Vulkin
1,621 posts
Joined September 2014
Topic Starter
Vulkin

Ryu Sei wrote:

This can be split into two points: a rule requiring FA tags (it means no change) and a guideline showing a recommendation to not put FA tags for non-FA entries.

If the song is composed by artists from the Featured Artist program but not listed, 'featured artist' and 'fa' should not be added.

Speaking about rules, we must be clear what is allowed and not. There is no middle ground for it, hence a guideline is more appropiate if we just simply want to discourage the addition, not strictly disallows it.
I see, thank you for the clarification!

ikin5050 wrote:

Currently the rule says if it is in the listing then tags must be present. People adding FA tags to songs that aren’t licensed are not following what the rule says anyway? Just because a rule implies a one way truth doesn’t mean you can deduct conditionals from it
Fixed with Ryu Sei's clarification.

ikin5050 wrote:

I also don’t see the point of discouraging people from adding the tags if it’s inaccurate to add them. Other inaccurate tags are removed so why should these be allowed? There is a very specific reason why some songs are part of the FA program and others are not (sampling copyrights/other commitments/etc.) so falsely advertising as something licensed to osu is just lying
I just want to be 100% sure regarding special cases where the song is not featured, but for some reason these tags are required (ie. album name). I might be overthinking it so I'll ask around.
wwwww
Nomination Assessment Team
125 posts
Joined May 2016
wwwww
The improved clarification helps +1 in support of this
fayew
210 posts
Joined June 2018
fayew
ikin's point about false advertisement of something as a thing belonging to osu! program is literally so on point and valid. the entire proposal makes sense and i support the idea of changing the rule
Hugged
osu! Alumni
179 posts
Joined July 2018
Hugged
+1, specifically for Decku's way of wording. To disallow the FA tags for FA songs that aren't specifically licensed might be a cause for confusion in the future because of ranked consistency. I think discouraging the tags without specifically disallowing is good, to give some wiggle room where there may be an argument to keep the FA tags. (For example, a self-remix of licensed song that isn't itself licensed).
Yasuho
Nomination Assessment Team
194 posts
Joined May 2016
Yasuho
I +1 with this proposal, adding a guideline would be nice to finally clarify that with clear wording. Just don't make it a rule. Don't make it a required tag. Decku's wording sounds nice.
K4L1
118 posts
Joined December 2017
K4L1
+1 on enneya’s wording.

I think that you should not add the FA Tag in the mapset if the song isn't FA, and should add the tag if the song is FA.

If the artist just select X songs to be Osu! FA, so we need to respect these X selected songs.
intiaz
1,026 posts
Joined March 2015
intiaz
i agree with this, i know that tags and metadata are a tricky thing to begin with but if the song isn't officially in the listing i don't see why you would add FA/featured artist tags
Decku
Beatmap Nominator
197 posts
Joined November 2018
Decku
FA does not need to be compulsory, however as Mania is completely different in how they focus on the acronyms, we can leave that aside.

I still believe current wording for wiggle room, as they could be a featured artist still provides feedback not only to the artist themselves, but for the recognition of other featured artist maps that serve purpose within the community :3
Vulkin
1,621 posts
Joined September 2014
Topic Starter
Vulkin
One big concern that I have is like what ikin mentioned, falsely advertising non-FA songs as belonging to the FA library.

But I don't agree with forcibly removing all instances of the FA tags on non-FA songs when they're closely related, such as covers and remixes, because you're still mapping the same melody.

My biggest concern, however, is making a clear distinction that just because an artist belongs in FA, doesn't mean that the song made by the FA belongs there; it has to explicitly exist in the listing.

For example, there are FA artists who are fine with people using their *listed* songs, but not okay when they use songs that aren't explicitly mentioned, whether it's by legal or personal reasons.
Last edited by Vulkin , edited 1 time in total.
RandomeLoL
Nomination Assessment Team
224 posts
Joined September 2015
RandomeLoL
It's merged. Thanks for everyone's input!
Last edited by RandomeLoL , edited 1 time in total.
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