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[Rule] Artist: Doujin Artist Field

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Topic Starter
Lanturn
Finalized

peppy wrote:

Most artists group themselves under the circle name, unless they are very well known. If they are well known enough, it's feasible to use their artist name instead of circle name.

Ephemeral wrote:

BAT decision is always priority regarding issues pertinent to map metadata issues.

Approving this specific amendment case using peppy's explanation.
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Original Post

Edit: change title to match the thread better. This is mostly intended for Doujin music that has circles and a wide variety of other things.


First off: https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/62125 - https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/t/81828 do exist but have been finalized or really outdated.

Lately it seems that there is a bit of talk between what should be used as an artist mostly in Touhou songs and other songs that have groups known as Circles.

A few examples of recently ranked beatmaps.

Dark PHOENiX - Last Remote - Type gamma
♦ Publisher/Circle: Dark PHOENiX
♦ Arranger: Dark PHOENiX (Yu, Shion Himekawa)
♦ Original Composer: ZUN
♦ Album: Sound-0 Phase-11
http://vgmdb.net/album/26985

IOSYS - Shining Grace
♦ Publisher: IOSYS
♦ Arranger: D.watt, DJ Laugh, uno (I don't have this CD so I can't tell who arranged which track)
♦ Composer: ARM
♦ Vocals: miko
♦ Lyrics: 夕野ヨシミ (Yuno Yoshimi?)
♦ Album: Project U-Ta-Hi-Me Original Soundtrack
http://vgmdb.net/album/36039

Linjin - Walking in the NIGHT
♦ Publisher: CYTOKINE
♦ Arranger: Linjin
♦ Original Composer: ZUN
♦ Vocals: itori
♦ Lyrics: Linjin
http://vgmdb.net/album/24434


Out of all these, and based on their respective threads, Linjin - Walking in the NIGHT was asked to be changed from CYTOKINE, and it's possible that the IOSYS one might be changed as well (depending on what other BATs suggest)

From Wikipedia for terms.
SPOILER
Publisher: Publishing is the process of production and dissemination of literature, music, or information — the activity of making information available to the general public. In some cases, authors may be their own publishers, meaning: originators and developers of content also provide media to deliver and display the content for the same. Also, the word publisher can refer to the individual who leads a publishing company or imprint or to a person who owns a magazine.
Arranger: An arrangement is the adaptation of a previously written musical composition for presentation. It may differ from the original form by reharmonization, paraphrasing or development of the melodic, harmonic, and rhythmic structure.[1] Orchestration differs in that it is only adapting music for an orchestra or musical ensemble while arranging "involves adding compositional techniques, such as new thematic material for introductions, transitions, or modulations, and endings...Arranging is the art of giving an existing melody musical variety".[1]
Compser: A composer (Latin com+ponere, literally "one who puts together") is a person who creates music, either by musical notation or oral tradition, for interpretation and performance, or through direct manipulation of sonic material as electroacoustic music.
Vocalist: Singing is the act of producing musical sounds with the voice, and augments regular speech by the use of both tonality and rhythm. One who sings is called a singer or vocalist. Singers perform music (arias, recitatives, songs, etc.) that can be sung either with or without accompaniment by musical instruments. Singing is often done in a group of other musicians, such as in a choir of singers with different voice ranges, or in an ensemble with instrumentalists, such as a rock group or baroque ensemble.
Lyrics: Lyrics (in singular form lyric) are a set of words that make up a song, usually consisting of verses and choruses. The writer of lyrics is a lyricist or lyrist. The meaning of lyrics can either be explicit or implicit. Some lyrics are abstract, almost unintelligible, and, in such cases, their explication emphasizes form, articulation, meter, and symmetry of expression. The lyricist of traditional musical forms such as Opera is known as a librettist.


So my question is... What do we use as the artist? Is it the Publisher/Circle, Arranger, Composer (Even if its the original), or the Vocalist even? Do we create a priority system such as Composer (Unless not Original) > Arranger (Unless they're the only arrangers of the circle), Circle, Vocals?

A previous thread already outruled using the vocalist as the singer for songs from Vocaloids, but it is still worth mentioning.

My opinion will be in the next post.
Topic Starter
Lanturn
So coming down to this. I believe the Circle should always be used as the artist.

To me, it takes many different pieces to create music.

First and foremost, the composer. The one what writes the original track. This is the biggest necessity in all of music because without it, there wouldn't be a song in the first place.

The arranger is a person who takes the original composed piece, and alters it to create a new melody.

A lyric writer is the person who makes up the words for a Vocalist to sing.

Taking these four basic principles in mind, and putting them all together, will create the song. It isn't just one individual part that does it. It is all of them.

Combining all four of them creates the Circle, which is kind of like a 'band.' Lots of Circles/Publishers these days have guests participate in the their music, but it is still labeled under the full band name. The only problem is if we decide to use the Arrangers, we will be shunning out the Vocalists, and the original composer who originally did half the work. Using the full circle name will actually compliment all of the participating people in the song instead of just one.


However, this only really applies to Circle groups. Any other 'publishers' are major company labels such as Lantis, Warner, Universal. These are treated as "labels" though who mass produce the music created by the original band.


We may also need to think about enforcing the arrangers to be added to the tags as well, along with vocals (which almost always are), the composer, (even if original) and maybe even the lyric writer if applicable
Kytoxid
I guess this is the issue for doujin music that doesn't have an easily-referenced artist. I like having a simple priority system, where we prioritize what goes in the artist field and just go down the list until we find official information fitting one of them. Something like this:

Circle/Band
Vocalist
Arranger
Composer
peppy
Most artists group themselves under the circle name, unless they are very well known. If they are well known enough, it's feasible to use their artist name instead of circle name.
hoshisorakiseki
For a examples of extreme (sorry, i want to say for "极端的例子", I use google translate to translate this.): Sound Horizon, it has many mambers (maybe 14 now).
If a song have numbers of artist, for this rule, will add all of them. When the user search a part of them, it may be confused.
And, the Chinese/Japanese is diffrent from the others, when Chinese and Japanese write a sentence, they seldom or never to use the space. But the others are usually use the space.
Finally, too many tags I think it may cause a tag spam.
neonat
People might know t+pazolite, but they might not recognise C.H.S. which is a circle t+pazolite is in. Which would be appropriate then?
Lust

neonat wrote:

People might know t+pazolite, but they might not recognise C.H.S. which is a circle t+pazolite is in. Which would be appropriate then?
t+pazolite, since not many know that its part of that circle (going by what peppy said)

However that being said, would a circle thats well known in some countries but not as popular on osu! and the singer/vocalist is known to many members of osu!, should the circle or the artist be used? What constitutes popularity? Being known on osu! or in their local countries?

Tried my best to be clear about it, hard to put in to words.
Wafu
Artist should be definitely Performer. So it means vocalist (for example Kugimiya Rie), if there is not a vocalist, you will use composer, but only if it's original (for example Maeda Jun), but if it is a remake of original song, composer is still Maeda Jun, but it is already not his remake, so you will use name of the one who remaked it (if we talk about Maeda Jun, let's say it could be yukizakurasou what is a group). If it has multiple Vocalist, it depends. Either you'll need to write all those Vocalists or if they have their own name as a group (for example eufonius), you don't need to write riya and Kikuchi Hajime, but you will write eufonius. However as I talked about yukizakurasou, it is not like eufonius, where are only two vocalists and nothing more, composers and other people don't belong to eufonius, in yukizakurasou, they do, because it's something like band and we should prioritize on it (Instead of using for example YuKi, SAKURA as an artist). So we should use either name of vocalist/s or if ALL the vocalists belong one group, we can use its group name, even if it contains composers and arrangers.

Why should we not use a Publisher?


That's simple. Let's look on this: http://vgmdb.net/album/25062 it has publisher CUFFS. CUFFS (or CUBE) has released the Visual novel, but they didn't even touch a note in the songs, so definitely not.

Why should we not use a Composer?

Check this song: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/23916 It would have to have artist Ludwig Van Beethoven, because he's composer of that song. If we had an original instrumental song, we should use Composer, else not. If it's not only-instrumental song, then he's only made a melody, so performer has to be used here.

Also here is a good example: http://vgmdb.net/album/13896
If you will map Otenba so ⑨te! you'll see there that it sings RIZNA and t+pazolite arranged it. If you check where does RIZNA belong, you'll know she is in C.H.S, where does even t+pazolite belong, so C.H.S is a candidate to be an artist. If you check their website, you can see that whole album belongs to C.H.S, so C.H.S should definitely be the artist, not t+pazolite or RIZNA.
Kytoxid

peppy wrote:

Most artists group themselves under the circle name, unless they are very well known. If they are well known enough, it's feasible to use their artist name instead of circle name.
After thinking about it, I think this makes the most sense. The artist should be the best-known artist from the work. If that's the circle, then it's the circle name. If it's the lead performer, then it's his/her name.

It's the most practical from a searching and viewing perspective; really, the question should be, "Who is known for this work?" or "What would someone who knows this song search for when searching for the artist?" It avoids us putting obscure, one-shot groups down if there is a well-known vocalist, and vice versa.
Topic Starter
Lanturn
So it seems like the best option offered so far is to allow the mapper choose who to credit as the artist, as long as it is within reason and they are known enough.

So if we abide by this, and it comes down to a disagreement between mappers, bats, or other users of who to use in the field. Who would get top priority?

It seems most logical that the Mapper would get the final say in the end as long as it's within reason, but what do you guys think?
Ephemeral
BAT decision is always priority regarding issues pertinent to map metadata issues.

Approving this specific amendment case using peppy's explanation.
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