Osu! Challengers Tournament -Gatyaa420 Wins-

posted
Total Posts
521

Would you like to see an osu! Challengers Tournament #2?

Yes
60
85.71%
No
10
14.29%
Total votes: 70
Polling ended December 30, 2013 at 2:15:01 PM UTC
show more
Meow
Name: Meow
Tournament you are Joining: Expert
Rank as of this moment: 7140
Payaya

Golf129 wrote:

2) I think the expert group should be split into 2 or more levels because I think the level gaps are too wide. e.g. it can be 75,000 - 30,000 then higher than 30,000 or even better 30,000-10,000 and then higher than 10,000. But I know this might make it more difficult to organise so anything you feel comfortable with is fine.
I would very much like these rank-based groups too.
If it's too difficult to organize i could try to help you if you like. :)
Topic Starter
Me168
Thanks to Spyrunite noticing this, the version of MAX LOVE in the Mediafire Download is not the correct, but we now have the corrected Download (Thanks to Mythrillo again) available here:http://www.mediafire.com/?41omfxodr6una57

[AirCoN] wrote:

72 in expert what
Exactly how I feel right now
Ohrami
why not just remove the lower levels? a tournament like that would be so boring
Flandre-
Sounds like fun and good practice

Name: Flandredevil9
Tournament you are Joining: Expert
Rank as of this moment: 12,138
me3lingual

Kyou-kun wrote:

why not just remove the lower levels? a tournament like that would be so boring
Yeah, because that seems fair after CookieAM and I have already been practicing for a week, preparing for the tournament.

The way I understand it, the point of this tournament is to provide a competitive atmosphere for players of all skill levels, not just the ones who are ranked in the Top tier. Sure, we may not be as good as a lot of the others who have entered; but rather than making a comment like the one you made and say that it would be boring, why not use some of the influence you and the other Expert participants have to help advertise the tournament and get more lower-ranked players to participate and make it not "so boring"? Why not get a group together to send messages to players at a rank that would qualify them for one of the lower level tournaments?
Icyteru
Split the expert players into 3 groups or so, keeping the same map pool
Yauxo

Payaya wrote:

Golf129 wrote:

2) I think the expert group should be split into 2 or more levels because I think the level gaps are too wide. e.g. it can be 75,000 - 30,000 then higher than 30,000 or even better 30,000-10,000 and then higher than 10,000. But I know this might make it more difficult to organise so anything you feel comfortable with is fine.
I would very much like these rank-based groups too.
If it's too difficult to organize i could try to help you if you like. :)
I'd also say that this would be the right way to go, but I dont know the the prizes would be handled (I mean, the prizes were made for 75k-1) Someone has to throw in some more prizes >:(
Payaya

Yauxo wrote:

Payaya wrote:

I would very much like these rank-based groups too.
If it's too difficult to organize i could try to help you if you like. :)
I'd also say that this would be the right way to go, but I dont know the the prizes would be handled (I mean, the prizes were made for 75k-1) Someone has to throw in some more prizes >:(
I'll send the winners some cookies :P
- O n i -
Name: - O n i -
Tournament you are Joining: Expert
Rank as of this moment: 7,263
big boob
Name: Vietz
Tournament you are Joining: Expert
Rank as of this moment: 11,435
Illus
I don't believe it's the right way to just count all the points together that a player received throughout the tournament, since some of the maps have got really different attributes (max. combo, style, difficulty) than others, thus resulting in total imbalance. So while players may get 500k points on one map (if they even pass) they could get those 500k by hitting 30 or so notes in a 1k combo. With this system, from my point of view it would be the smartest thing to say: "Why should I bother with passing Cirno's Perfect Math Class if I could get a ton of points by learning to get FC on Netoge Haijin Sprechchor with a lot less effort?"

I dare to say it discourages players at about my level to even bother with some maps, which is bad. You should remember that this isn't a pro tournament (with some exceptions though ^^), so many people will think like that.

I'd suggest that the ranking should be with internal points like you've wanted it before, using the multiplayer ranking (and also counting the failures). Like the first one in a map will get 7 pts., the second 6, etc. The players who are tied at the first place could face each other afterwards. Alternatively, the 7 players with the highest points could play in that "final". It would result in quite a bit more effort, but I believe it's worth it. With a potential split of the expert group into 3, the possibility of more than a 7-way-tie would be practically nonexistent if there aren't more than 7 groups in each expert tournament.

Is there a possibility to go with that? Or are there too few helpers/moderators for this?


Yauxo wrote:

I'd also say that this would be the right way to go, but I dont know the the prizes would be handled (I mean, the prizes were made for 75k-1) Someone has to throw in some more prizes >:(
The most logical solution would be to give the prizes meant for the expert group to the first 10k (unless the donator disagrees), since they're most likely the best out of us. For me, it would be totally fine since I play the tournament for fun and not for the prizes.
Spyrunite
I don't believe it's the right way to just count all the points together that a player received throughout the tournament, since some of the maps have got really different attributes (max. combo, style, difficulty) than others, thus resulting in total imbalance. So while players may get 500k points on one map (if they even pass) they could get those 500k by hitting 30 or so notes in a 1k combo. With this system, from my point of view it would be the smartest thing to say: "Why should I bother with passing Cirno's Perfect Math Class if I could get a ton of points by learning to get FC on Netoge Haijin Sprechchor with a lot less effort?"
I would say the way it is makes it more like the way osu actually plays. When you are playing a map for a good rank the only thing that matters is getting a good combo. That's just they way osu was made, and this is an osu tournament. I would also say that the disadvantages of the system you said are worse. In that case you don't actually know how well you did in the tournament overall, all you know is how well you did in your bracket of people. If you get placed In a bracket with really good people then you are last, where you might actually get a half-decent rank.

The only thing I'm not sure if I agree with is the 0 if you fail thing. I'm having to put in some effort to learn to pass some of these songs, which I'm fine with, but I wonder how the people that are worse than me are doing.
Illus

Spyrunite wrote:

I would say the way it is makes it more like the way osu actually plays. When you are playing a map for a good rank the only thing that matters is getting a good combo. That's just they way osu was made, and this is an osu tournament. I would also say that the disadvantages of the system you said are worse. In that case you don't actually know how well you did in the tournament overall, all you know is how well you did in your bracket of people. If you get placed In a bracket with really good people then you are last, where you might actually get a half-decent rank.

The only thing I'm not sure if I agree with is the 0 if you fail thing. I'm having to put in some effort to learn to pass some of these songs, which I'm fine with, but I wonder how the people that are worse than me are doing.
Just because it's more like the way osu actually plays doesn't mean we have to do the same. I wouldn't wanna have someone who FC'd 5 maps and got 0 points on everything else as the winner. The winner should be someone who is actually better than the rest. The bracket problems would also be somewhat solved with a potential expert tournament split, even though they would remain to some extent. But a similar problem is in the current system: If you can play one of the harder maps better than other people, but fail like them, you'll get nothing from that. And even if you don't fail, it will count as almost nothing. I think that's worse, since all efforts are wasted and then it's better to not even try.

So I completely agree with you on the "0 if you fail"-issue. If there can't be another system, at least one could do that.
Spyrunite
I'd be fine with making the brackets tighter to change to that system, i just don't see it happening. Everything is set and I don't think Me wants change it this late.
Illus
I think it's still entirely possible for Me to change things since he already announced some changes not too long ago (some post at page 8, I believe). The tournament will be at the 14th December, there's still plenty of time left.

Let's see how things will develop. :)
Yauxo
So I also had one thought about the scoring system (correct me if Iam talking comeplete bull or useless stuffl)

Why dont we take the score and divide it by the maximum possible combo? The scores would be moved to a point where a 500 combo song is somewhat close to a 900 combo song. (atleast closer than osu! score vs osu! score)

Let me give an example:
Marie-Luise has a max combo of x1040. The best no-mod score is 17.724.516. Now, if we calculate that with the "formula" above, we'd have a score of 17042,8 pts
Classical Insanity has a max combo of x412. The best no-mod score is 3.526.596. Doing the same here, we'd have a score of 8559,7 pts

17042 pts - 8559 pts = 8483 pts difference instead of 14.197.920 osu! score. (edit: where the 8k score is ~40-50% and the osu! score doesnt even scratch that)

If Id think some more about it I'd also possibly give an example about not-FC`d maps, but I guess this shows what iam aiming for.
luhgitmuch
Name: luhgitmuch
Tournament you are playing Joining: Advance Tournament
Rank as of this moment: 78,697
Topic Starter
Me168

Spyrunite wrote:

I don't believe it's the right way to just count all the points together that a player received throughout the tournament, since some of the maps have got really different attributes (max. combo, style, difficulty) than others, thus resulting in total imbalance. So while players may get 500k points on one map (if they even pass) they could get those 500k by hitting 30 or so notes in a 1k combo. With this system, from my point of view it would be the smartest thing to say: "Why should I bother with passing Cirno's Perfect Math Class if I could get a ton of points by learning to get FC on Netoge Haijin Sprechchor with a lot less effort?"
I would say the way it is makes it more like the way osu actually plays. When you are playing a map for a good rank the only thing that matters is getting a good combo. That's just they way osu was made, and this is an osu tournament. I would also say that the disadvantages of the system you said are worse. In that case you don't actually know how well you did in the tournament overall, all you know is how well you did in your bracket of people. If you get placed In a bracket with really good people then you are last, where you might actually get a half-decent rank.

The only thing I'm not sure if I agree with is the 0 if you fail thing. I'm having to put in some effort to learn to pass some of these songs, which I'm fine with, but I wonder how the people that are worse than me are doing.
PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DO NOT ONLY FC SOME OF THE MAPS!!!! The whole point is that when it comes time to play the tournament, it's a Random Draw using an Online Random Name Generator (Works just as well, because osu! like to pick "Favorites" for Maps). If you FC 6 of the 15 Given Maps, only 7 are played, so If you ignore the other 8, and 6 or all 7 songs are in that 8, you are skrewed. If this method works for you the first time, and you advance, good job, It'll just bite you in the butt the next round, which will have even more songs than before.

me3lingual wrote:

Kyou-kun wrote:

why not just remove the lower levels? a tournament like that would be so boring
Yeah, because that seems fair after CookieAM and I have already been practicing for a week, preparing for the tournament.

The way I understand it, the point of this tournament is to provide a competitive atmosphere for players of all skill levels, not just the ones who are ranked in the Top tier. Sure, we may not be as good as a lot of the others who have entered; but rather than making a comment like the one you made and say that it would be boring, why not use some of the influence you and the other Expert participants have to help advertise the tournament and get more lower-ranked players to participate and make it not "so boring"? Why not get a group together to send messages to players at a rank that would qualify them for one of the lower level tournaments?
Don't fight! Be Happy :D . The reason I started the Lower Level Tournaments is because I don't see a lot of Tournaments other than Expert/Pro Tournaments, which though there are exceptions, kinda sucks for the people (Like Myself) Who want to compete but can't play at the level of the songs given in a tournament.

[AirCoN] wrote:

Split the expert players into 3 groups or so, keeping the same map pool
So I would end up Having 6 Tournament Groups in the end... *Smashes Abort Button and Jumps off a Burning Ship*

Yauxo wrote:

So I also had one thought about the scoring system (correct me if Iam talking comeplete bull or useless stuffl)

Why dont we take the score and divide it by the maximum possible combo? The scores would be moved to a point where a 500 combo song is somewhat close to a 900 combo song. (atleast closer than osu! score vs osu! score)

Let me give an example:
Marie-Luise has a max combo of x1040. The best no-mod score is 17.724.516. Now, if we calculate that with the "formula" above, we'd have a score of 17042,8 pts
Classical Insanity has a max combo of x412. The best no-mod score is 3.526.596. Doing the same here, we'd have a score of 8559,7 pts

17042 pts - 8559 pts = 8483 pts difference instead of 14.197.920 osu! score. (edit: where the 8k score is ~40-50% and the osu! score doesnt even scratch that)

If Id think some more about it I'd also possibly give an example about not-FC`d maps, but I guess this shows what iam aiming for.
That is an Interesting Point System, the only thing is that I'm not Subtracting scores, only adding. Also How I set it up (At Least in my Head) is that Instead of playing all the Rounds for all the groups and then all the highest all together move on, The highest people (However many I need) from each group move on. Although that is an Interesting formula you set up.

Also, I received an Anonymous message asking if it was fair to have Kyou-Kun participate in the tournament when he is in the Top 100 Worldwide. Just so that others don't message me about this it is absolutely fair for Kyou-Kun to participate. Do not take this example as me making a statement, it's just an example: Let's say that Kyou-Kun cracks under the pressure of the Tournament and misses a combo, and it messes his scores up and then he can't advance on. That's a possibility, and that same thing can happen to any other players in the tournament as well.
WolcreX
Name: WolcreX
Tournament you are Joining: Beginner
Rank as of this moment: #259,864
show more
Please sign in to reply.

New reply