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Mizuki Nana - Innocent Starter (TV Size)

posted
Total Posts
58
Mystearica
Topic Starter
Mystearica
This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on August 21, 2009 at 12:11:16 PM

Artist: Mizuki Nana
Title: Innocent Starter (TV Size)
Tags: Anime J-Pop Nanoha
BPM: 132
Filesize: 4543kb
Play Time: 01:33
Difficulties Available:
  1. Fate (4.95 stars, 282 notes)
  2. Lyrical (2.79 stars, 95 notes)
  3. Nanoha (4.34 stars, 176 notes)
Download: Mizuki Nana - Innocent Starter (TV Size)
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
---------------
Last song to finish the Nanoha series.

Original message:

SPOILER
For every beginning there is an ending.

I suppose in many ways I was also an innocent starter when I first started this game. Don't take this statement seriously.
Yet I say so because I was innocent. I did not know anything.

Just what is this beatmapping system? You make a map, you submit, people come rape your map to make it "rankable" and then you receive crap scores because people can't full combo your map. Whatever happened to your own style?

The very means of getting your beatmap ranked as it is right now is destroying every single bit of creativity any mapper could have possibly been born with.

I am tired of seeing BAT maps getting tag ranked instantly everyday while so many other mappers beg and beg to get any attention. There is no such thing as fairness in this system. If your name in chat isn't red, you do not exist. As much as I hate seeing this, I am a powerless individual who cannot bring about any change. But you know what? I tried.

I will proudly say that I never mapped songs for them to become ranked. I mapped them because I love them. I mapped them because I wanted to share them with the rest of you. If you map with the sole intention of getting your map ranked, then I believe you shouldn't be mapping at all.

Yes I know James has a wonderful full version of this song mapped. I do not intend to compare myself to James (there's no way I possibly could), so you don't have to go out of your way to flame me. This is merely my final tribute to the Nanoha series and Mizuki Nana and I really wanted to share this with those who love the series and this song in particular.

My wish is that one day my thoughts written above will reach all of you out there playing this game, creating beatmaps, or modding other people's maps. Don't map to be ranked, but rather map with your love for the song and share it with those who love the song. Show people your own style.

Actually, I'll stay around and see what I can do.
Last edited by Mystearica , edited 10 times in total.
DeadAlready
1,575 posts
Joined August 2008
DeadAlready
My english sucks,so I can't understand all of you say,that's very sorry... <(_ _)>

But I can understand almost you mean and I agree that.

Then, this map is also good,although it's only one diff now.

so give a star. <3
shindrgon
12 posts
Joined June 2008
shindrgon
agree 0.0
star
MegaManEXE
710 posts
Here since the beginning
MegaManEXE
It's unfortunate it came to this, but you always were one to not hold back and speak your mind lol

Here's the final piece...I think it's my best normal yet (albeit a bit hard for a normal) but I'll let other people judge for themselves.

osu lost a talented person today. ;_;

No kudos for this one plz, just playing my part in the finale.


In b4 mod deletion

Download: Mizuki Nana - Innocent Starter (TV Size) (Mystearica) [Nanoha].osu
Alace
osu! Alumni
3,088 posts
Joined August 2008
Alace
I posted what i thought
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16382&p=182609#p182609
Lisa
85 posts
Joined July 2009
Lisa
0.0agree
star
alvisto
881 posts
Joined April 2009
alvisto
Support ! You voiced out everything that I felt that I couldn't possibly say now, as I am new to mapping, so I am not entitled to voice any opinion, I think, but you get my 2 cents.

Hopefully our small little voices can gather more and more support and people actually think about this.

I am tired of seeing BAT maps getting tag ranked instantly everyday while so many other mappers beg and beg to get any attention.
Agree. It makes SP gaining stupid. All the BAT mod that I get for my first map aren't because of my SP. My first map was once top-SP for a day or two, and I felt stupid coz I felt happy that "Yay, finally I am top in the queue". So, I stopped shouting for attention for a day or two, and guess what, no one touched that map. It was then I realized, ok.....

I will proudly say that I never mapped songs for them to become ranked. I mapped them because I love them. I mapped them because I wanted to share them with the rest of you.
Thanks for re-waking my true intention of mapping.

Whatever happened to your own style?
I tried to keep it while listening to other people's advice and suggestions. I am sure I will be better once I map more.
Furawa
554 posts
Joined April 2009
Furawa
>3< nana dai su ki
Hanyuu
2,223 posts
Joined February 2009
Hanyuu

xiAo_H wrote:

0.0agree
star
heintsi
1,126 posts
Joined January 2009
heintsi
star for map and message :>
kioukiou
774 posts
Joined June 2008
kioukiou
Agree.

Map is good.

So shoot a star.
minyeob
osu! Alumni
2,540 posts
Joined May 2008
minyeob
"Show that you care by giving me a star and show the korean mappers
if you don't want to, that's fine"

I'll star this for KR mappers
I'm....... serious about this:;

Mystearica wrote:

Goodbye~ It was fun!
Don't go:; I'll hold your hand


Mystearica wrote:

Just what is this beatmapping system? You make a map, you submit, people come rape your map to make it "rankable" and then you receive crap scores because people can't full combo your map. Whatever happened to your own style?

The very means of getting your beatmap ranked as it is right now is destroying every single bit of creativity any mapper could have possibly been born with.
Totally agree.... *regrets*

/me supports this topic.
Last edited by minyeob , edited 1 time in total.
Harken1
25 posts
Joined April 2009
Harken1
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
azuki
351 posts
Joined January 2009
azuki
star for your message and your map.
orioncomet
osu! Alumni
2,684 posts
Joined May 2009
orioncomet

azuki wrote:

star for your message and your map.
Mogsy
osu! Alumni
3,450 posts
Here since the beginning
Mogsy
Just what is this beatmapping system? You make a map, you submit, people come rape your map to make it "rankable" and then you receive crap scores because people can't full combo your map. Whatever happened to your own style?

The very means of getting your beatmap ranked as it is right now is destroying every single bit of creativity any mapper could have possibly been born with.
That's cynicism to the extreme. Our ranking guidelines aren't as strict as you make them out to be, and our modding isn't designed to make maps robotic, unlike what you and many other people have suggested. I'd personally like to see more creativity from mappers. There are still ways to be creative, even under restrictions.

I am tired of seeing BAT maps getting tag ranked instantly everyday while so many other mappers beg and beg to get any attention. There is no such thing as fairness in this system. If your name in chat isn't red, you do not exist. As much as I hate seeing this, I am a powerless individual who cannot bring about any change. But you know what? I tried.
If you're really going to just assume that, do some bloody research. Not to mention the fact that the BAT members have proven mapping talent, so it's not bias towards BAT that gets their maps ranked, it's the fact that they made a solid, rankable map.

I will proudly say that I never mapped songs for them to become ranked. I mapped them because I love them. I mapped them because I wanted to share them with the rest of you. If you map with the sole intention of getting your map ranked, then I believe you shouldn't be mapping at all.
In general, that's what I see mapping as; a way to make a fun file for a song you love, to show your love for said song. Weird for the person with 100 WIPs to say, but I love every song I map. If you map a song you don't like just so you can get it ranked, well, stop mapping. Creativity is born out of one's love for the song, after all.

Send me a forum PM and I'll mod this (this is just my system due to my bad memory; it helps me keep track of who asked me to mod).
minyeob
osu! Alumni
2,540 posts
Joined May 2008
minyeob
Mogsy, Frankly Speaking, I'm against of you.

That's cynicism to the extreme. Our ranking guidelines aren't as strict as you make them out to be, and our modding isn't designed to make maps robotic, unlike what you and many other people have suggested. I'd personally like to see more creativity from mappers. There are still ways to be creative, even under restrictions.
"Straighten this slider"-> What's this? It's robotic:;


If you're really going to just assume that, do some bloody research. Not to mention the fact that the BAT members have proven mapping talent, so it's not bias towards BAT that gets their maps ranked, it's the fact that they made a solid, rankable map.
lol what bloody search? Only few BAT maps get ranked like that.
Also, It's really hard to get BAT's mod post for normal users.

If you map a song you don't like just so you can get it ranked, well, stop mapping. Creativity is born out of one's love for the song, after all.
I have no opinion about this:;

Send me a forum PM and I'll mod this
Gonna rank/mod this?

I will proudly say that I never mapped songs for them to become ranked.
Read this before you mod this map:;
Mogsy
osu! Alumni
3,450 posts
Here since the beginning
Mogsy
I do promise to mod this map. :/ It's as if you don't believe me when I say that.

Also, when I say to straighten something, it generally looks sloppy. Polished != robotic.

Not to mention that it isn't that hard to get us to look at normal users' maps. All they have to do is ask us.

Also, here's the thing: there are 455 maps in Pending as of me typing this, and look at the number of -active- BAT. There are more and more maps each day. Now, as much as I'd love to spend all day modding every single day, I have a life to attend to as well, and the same thing goes for every BAT. The thing is, BAT maps are made by people with proven track records, so they're bound to get noticed. If they get ranked quickly, good for them, that's one less map by a BAT we need to worry about, so we can spend more time focused on maps made by non-BATs. :/ Some maps get lost in the shuffle, but don't be afraid to ask a BAT to mod your map, just understand that there's not enough time in the day for us to look at every map ever made EVER.
Mystearica
Topic Starter
Mystearica
No one requests that all of you mod 24/7 of your lives. I suggest you read Alace's response before using those same idiotic responses again.

This map nor its message were composed for you or any other BAT to mod. This is my style and message, this is how the map will be. Take your hands off of this map.

You are actually quite an active BAT, so most of what I said isn't directed at you. But can you honestly say the same for everybody else on that BAT team?

Let me quote Alace:

The situation is really bad now, let me explain:

1) New BATs mod like a crazy for a few weeks or months
2) They become more and more lazy. They ignore the public and start to tag rank each other

WHY WHY WHY

Because old BATs are even lazier and also tag rank.
As you see even with the increase in the number of BATs we have now, the number of players
who complain increased in the same proportion.

New BATs have realized that they don`t need to mod so much because they are BATs forever. They will not be kicked off.
When BATs want their own maps to be ranked they tag each other.
</thread>
Mogsy
osu! Alumni
3,450 posts
Here since the beginning
Mogsy
I absolutely refuse to stop modding your map, whether you like it or not. It's in Pending, therefore it's fair game.

However, if you absolutely refuse to change it, why are you placing it in Pending in the first place?

Also, I honestly cannot speak for the other BAT, for I only speak with my own voice, I am not the voice of an entire group. Every individual has their own voice and they can choose to speak when they wish to speak. I am simply a BAT defending a generalization made against my position.
Mystearica
Topic Starter
Mystearica
I made this map, like any other map I made it to share my own view on the song itself and to share the artist. Getting it ranked is not my concern. Pending maps are perfectly playable like Dangaard has taught me, and many of them are of good quality. Yet why do you guys only talk about rank rank rank? What happened to the fun of this game? Make a map with your own unique style and share it with your friends in MP. Why must there always be rank rank rank?

You can mod it all you want, and for that matter anybody else can mod it all they want. Just know that this map will not change one bit. You're right, it's in pending and therefore your modding is fair game. That is your view and certainly not the view of your fellow BATs. They've come up with a standard list of excuses to use for the purpose of ignoring pending map requests.

Should I point out specific examples? No, I don't think I even need to. You can ask any mapper that's responded in this thread and I'm sure they've got lots to share with you regarding that.

I don't know how many pending maps have been ignored and ended up in the graveyard, yet those maps were of fair quality.

If this map will end up in the graveyard, so be it.

Again, I strongly urge you to read Alace's response.
Last edited by Mystearica , edited 2 times in total.
Alace
osu! Alumni
3,088 posts
Joined August 2008
Alace
Rolf
plz stop kiouing

I think you don`t really need to mod this
this thread is not a mod request

well i want to see your mod post personally
It`s always fun
Mogsy
osu! Alumni
3,450 posts
Here since the beginning
Mogsy
If you're not going to change it, I'm not going to mod it. It's as simple as that. This isn't an excuse, it's just me denying my services if you're just going to ignore it anyways. It's a reasonable denial. The time I would waste by modding your map would take away from the time I have to work on other peoples' maps, and they'll sure as hell take criticism, unlike what you appear to be doing. I'll be happy to move this if you don't want people to change this. :/ People will still look at it to find the message you have inscribed into your first post, so what's the difference?

Also, I read Alace's post before I even posted the first time.
Mystearica
Topic Starter
Mystearica
Why must you move it? It's a complete map with a Hard and Normal, both are very playable with no unrankable errors, and are our own styles to the very best that we could've attempted.

Just because I won't accept changes on this map means it can't be in pending? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

You just want to move this out of the way so less people will see it. You only came here and said that you would mod it because I dare spoken out. So let me ask you, how many others must speak out like this to be heard by your so called expert mapping team?

This map will not change, because frankly this is my map, I made it to the best of my abilities, and I think it's fine. You may be a BAT but you actually are just another person like me. You might think you have expertise, but in fact I do not care for that matter because this is my style of mapping and I liked the outcome.

Also, because your responses were so idiotic, they gave me the impression that you had not read Alace's posts/had not understood what he meant.

Also also, is calling me stupid in #osu the best you can do? Because really, that's rather low. I don't go on IRC and start calling you stupid in some other channel. What does name calling accomplish? Quite a typical BAT attitude I guess.
Mogsy
osu! Alumni
3,450 posts
Here since the beginning
Mogsy
Excuse me, but I'm going to explain this as simply as I can so I can get back to work.

-This is Pending. Do you want your map ranked? No? Then why in the world is it in here?

-I'm not moving it so less people can see it, you're jumping to conclusions. I'd move it so it can take up less space in Pending if you're not intending on getting this ranked, unlike just about every other map in Pending. What you're doing is just disrespectful.

-Really, I only brought it up in IRC in hopes that it would stir discussion about this sort of situation, which I quite frankly find idiotic. Your map is in Pending, meaning it's PENDING BAT APPROVAL. Why put it in here if you have NO INTENTION of getting it ranked? It's taking up space and is only serving as a distraction from other maps that need to be looked at. What you're doing is trying to make a point while contradicting your own wishes.

-Quite honestly, your response is leading me to believe that you just can't accept criticism. "I made it so it means I'm right" is the most arrogant thing you can say. You're not perfect either, so opening yourself for constructive criticism, criticism meant to polish the map and bring out what's so good about it, is the best way to go. I realize that I am human and I am not perfect. However, I do have a level of expertise if I am a BAT. If I did not have said level of knowledge, I wouldn't be on the team. However, ranking a beatmap is a collaborative effort between mapper and modder, designed to bring out a map's full polish. If you can't accept that, stop wasting peoples' time with a map you don't even want ranked.

-To claim that I did not understand what Alace meant just seems like a futile attempt to make me look bad. I only said what I said simply because I can't comprehend why you wouldn't want your map to be ranked if you placed it among the ranks of maps that are seeking approval. If you're simply trying to make a point, well, mission accomplished I guess? Just don't do so in the format of a map, I already explained the contradiction in your logic.

You're not above the damn system and neither is anyone else, normal user or BAT.
Mystearica
Topic Starter
Mystearica
I don't care if it gets ranked. Notice I don't care doesn't mean = I don't want. I think the map is fine as it is, if you disagree, don't rank it. Simple as that.

No I'm not jumping to conclusions. Tonnes of maps here get ignored anyway so what's your problem with one more?

You hoped to accomplish this: Oh no someone is attacking my red name, guys help me flame.

I can't accept criticism? Look at yourself and your team. You have no right to talk to me about that.

Your post doesn't even make sense, I made it so it means I'm right? You seem to be the #1 person with that attitude around here actually. I'm wasting your time? You came here to read and respond out of your own free will, feel free to get the fuck out of my thread anytime.

My map will not change, so what? It is complete, it is perfectly playable. If you don't think it's rank-worthy, don't rank it. If you're going to flood my thread with more nonsense, make sure you at least understand what you're typing first.
Mogsy
osu! Alumni
3,450 posts
Here since the beginning
Mogsy
Actually, I wasn't hoping to accomplish that at all. I was actually hoping for something more civil. You took things and blew them out of proportion.

I'll just end this by saying that I laughed a lot at that post, for reasons I will not explain in public. No reason insulting or demeaning to you, it's just ironic on my part that you'd say that I'm arrogant.
Alace
osu! Alumni
3,088 posts
Joined August 2008
Alace
Mogsworth you really are like a joker your posts always make me laugh.

As I've said again and again, there is no rule to art.

You think you know everything when it comes to mapping, yet you'd be surprised that you know so little.

I too, know so little. I just map with my feelings, I just want a map to become what I'd like it to become.
I only followed those silly rules at first because I had no clue what else I should be doing.
I mapped about 40 songs, and all I have to say is: Follow your own will to map and make a map which you like.

Some people just think about how to fit the rules and how to make rankable maps, they never understood what real mappers desired.

For me personally, I just enjoy mapping.
I hope my maps can be ranked but I don't map for the sole purpose of ranking.
There are some people who create maps with their heart and soul, all they did is create the image in their heart in the form of a map.

BUT WE BATs FORCE THEM TO ALTER THAT IMAGE BECAUSE OF THESE RULES

We BATs suck. We don't even try to understand what they are feeling (In fact, it's really hard to understand what other people think,
but that's why we are all unique and should promote our own styles)

So all I do is simply check to see if the map in question is rankable...I have to rank ugly maps...Like this http://osu.ppy.sh/s/8391
This map is so ugly for me yet I still ranked it because this game wasn't made for me only. There are others who will enjoy it.

Just remember this:
BATs are not the core of osu; the players are.
If you feel like to reply with 65535 more posts, then please use that time to check those pending maps and honestly try to understand them.

There are 19 pages of them sitting there at this very moment.
heartnetkung
54 posts
Joined March 2009
heartnetkung
Agree with the first post and want to see this map get ranked without changing even a bit.
Mogsy
osu! Alumni
3,450 posts
Here since the beginning
Mogsy
I thought I was done with this thread but I will be after this quick response:

Don't act like I don't know what the struggle of an artist is like. I go through it every damn day, Alace, both inside and outside of osu!. It's not an experience I'd like to force onto others. However, this does happen, and it's impossible to stop, if you stop to think about it.

I know I know little when it comes to mapping as an overall whole because there is always more to learn. However, you're acting as if I'm shallow-minded, superficial, and down-right arrogant. I try to see where everyone's coming from on their maps, which is why you never see me saying "TRY MAPPING EXACTLY HOW I WOULD MAP IT". I don't automatically assume I'm right, and quite honestly, for you to propose such a belief is absolutely ludicrous.

As far as Just for Now goes, you didn't have to rank it. And if you hate the map so much, I'd like specific comments in the thread so I know what to improve on, don't just attack the bloody map in another thread as an insult. But this is a discussion for another time and another thread. I'd still appreciate actual feedback in a civil, constructive manner.

As far as mapping creativity goes, we don't automatically shoot it down like everyone suggests we do. That's just a generalization that, as far as I can see, has absolutely no basis in fact.
deepsea
osu! Alumni
855 posts
Joined April 2008
deepsea
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
FurukawaPan
649 posts
Joined August 2008
FurukawaPan
What's with all the drama? Mystearica: You don't have to take everyone's advice during the modding process. If you feel a requested change is not something you like or want, then *defend* your original choice and leave it at that. There are many BATs, so if one thinks that something you did is no good, talk to someone else. The purpose of modding is to make your maps better, not to stifle creativity. If you have a problem with something about current modding policies (I have a few myself, 100% SS Auto requirements, for instance), then start the debate in one of the other forums.

Also, posting your map in pending with a large essay chewing out the BAT is not exactly going to get them on your side about personal creativity.
------------------------
now my thoughts about the *map* (these are my personal impressions, you are not required to change a damn thing if you prefer so)

[Nanoha]
When I was playing it, it felt like the hit circles were 1 size too big. I think this map would be a lot tidier just by dropping the hitcircle size one point.

I did like the pattern at 00:51:70 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,3) - I am a big fan of this sort of symmetry.

[Fate]

A good, quick difficulty for the harder difficulty.

There are lots of places where you put triplets such as 00:19:20 (7,8,9) - and doubles such as at 00:38:06 (8,9,10,11) -

I think that it might help to listen to the map in the editor and perhaps replace some triplets with alternate patterns. They seem to be done repetitively often throughout the map. Most places where you put the doubles were very fitting, however.

---------
Star. ミ☆
Mystearica
Topic Starter
Mystearica
Actually, I'm sorry I raged at you james039.
Last edited by Mystearica , edited 1 time in total.
FurukawaPan
649 posts
Joined August 2008
FurukawaPan

Mystearica wrote:

I'm not chewing out anybody. Someone decided to come in and rage, that's all.
yes.. rage.. at the system.. i.e. the BATs.

Mystearica wrote:

Don't act like you're something else, all I'm doing is saying what I feel should be said. People disagree with each other because they're different, if you can't accept this, why are you posting to begin with?
I have as much right to mod this map as anyone else in pending. If you don't like it, ask a BAT to graveyard this.

Mystearica wrote:

Defend my original choice and leave it at that? You're fucking blind. Piss off. I take it you haven't seen all the people defending their choices and nothing has ever changed. You fucking hypocrite, how dare you post in this thread with your nonsense.

To anyone that thinks I'm raging, actually I might be a little. Go ahead and do whatever you want with me, I've said what I wanted to say and if you can't accept that, god help you.

STOP FLOODING MY THREAD. deepsea put it rather nicely, go start your own elsewhere if you want to keep posting.
I'm here to mod maps, not argue with mappers. If you don't like my post, you're quite welcome to ignore it.
Lef
482 posts
Joined October 2008
Lef

SeymourLyon wrote:

What i think about it is: Maps should be ranked when they are rankable. Changing them by Bats is quite "forcing" players to do what they dont want. But also maps should be modded to make them looks better. But its should be totally players decision to change it like this or not.
I see it like this. But... Not like this: http://osu.ppy.sh/forum/viewtopic.php?p=95058#p95058 (yea i raged there, sorry for that).
Star.
Dangaard
osu! Alumni
1,232 posts
Joined July 2008
Dangaard

james039 wrote:

If you don't like my post, you're quite welcome to ignore it.
Sadly not everyone is sharing this opinion.

Star, nice map.
Mystearica
Topic Starter
Mystearica
Again sorry for the rage but I think this post has some content:

Adjusted version:

Please do not mod this map, REALLY. If you want to rank it, rank it as is. If you don't think it's rankable, don't rank it.

I'm really just speaking my personal opinion and defending that, if you disagree then of course that's bound to happen.

And I really don't want to graveyard this map. It's complete and it's Mizuki Nana :)
Last edited by Mystearica , edited 1 time in total.
CheeseWarlock
osu! Alumni
1,185 posts
Joined May 2008
CheeseWarlock
So I saw a lot of BAT posting in here...

I can't speak for the BAT team, but I respect a mapper's right to creativity. When I point things out in the map, I'm not trying to force them to make every map the same and CRUSH THEIR ARTISTIC SPIRIT. Here, I'll get right to it:

Just because it's art doesn't mean it can't be critiqued.

I try to respect the mapper's style and vision, but the whole point of the ranking system is to ensure that only beatmaps with a certain level of quality get ranked. And sometimes that means that some aspect of the map need to be changed. If that conflicts with the mapper's vision, they can defend their choice, but sometimes they just need to get their eyesight checked. The quality control we have in place is what encourages users to make great maps instead of just throwing things together.

While I agree that BATs shouldn't be giving each other's maps as much immediate attention as they do sometimes, there is nothing wrong with the first two BATs who look at another BAT's map bubbling and ranking it, because BATs know what makes a good map and what is and isn't worthy of ranking. That's why they're in charge of ranking.

Defend my original choice and leave it at that? You're fucking blind. Piss off. I take it you haven't seen all the people defending their choices and nothing has ever changed. You fucking hypocrite, how dare you post in this thread with your nonsense.
WHAT. Wait, WHAT.

How is he being a hypocrite? What do you mean, "nothing has ever changed"? Tell us what the problem is, don't just start throwing insults.

STOP FLOODING MY THREAD.
You started this. Don't complain when people post in a thread responding to something YOU said.

And I'd give you my opinion on the map if I thought you'd listen to it. But if you can't stop thinking that your map is perfect, then you can never achieve perfection.
FurukawaPan
649 posts
Joined August 2008
FurukawaPan
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
MegaManEXE
710 posts
Here since the beginning
MegaManEXE
I was going to generally stay out of this but since you commented a bit about my difficulty I feel like I should say something I guess.

Incoming wall of text >_>

If you have a problem with something about current modding policies (I have a few myself, 100% SS Auto requirements, for instance), then start the debate in one of the other forums.
A debate wasn't really the intent; this map is a culmination of her pent up feelings of frustration towards something she alone cannot change and, I think at least, it's an appropriate medium to express those emotions through. Why would she start a debate somewhere else anyways if she's leaving osu? This is merely a farewell message with a few last words for the community to think long and hard about.

Also, posting your map in pending with a large essay chewing out the BAT is not exactly going to get them on your side about personal creativity.
Again, missing the point; she's not trying to garner a bunch of BAT supporters here.

now my thoughts about the *map* (these are my personal impressions, you are not required to change a damn thing if you prefer so)
I don't want to say "your thoughts aren't welcome here" because that's rather tactless, but quite frankly, if you did read her post, you wasted your time. Just saying.

[Nanoha]
When I was playing it, it felt like the hit circles were 1 size too big. I think this map would be a lot tidier just by dropping the hitcircle size one point.
I could see this I suppose, but I put the circle size at the largest because I felt like the map was too hard for newbies as it was and I did what I could to make it a little more friendly to them. Even if this will not be ranked, I hope people will play this in multiplayer and show their friends because it is, at least in my opinion, a map of good quality and deserves to be noticed. But I too will not alter my difficulty in accordance with Mystearica's wishes that this map remain unmodded and complete as is. Even if I did make that change she probably wouldn't re-submit anyways, lol.

I did like the pattern at 00:51:70 (1,2,1,2,1,2,3,1,2,3) - I am a big fan of this sort of symmetry.
Thanks. This is probably the most important normal difficulty I've ever made (for multiple reasons, not just because it's a part of a friend's final map) so I tried to put everything I had into it to make it nice. I'm not saying it's flawless but as someone who just started mapping 2-3 weeks ago, I'm quite proud of it. I will try to use nice patterns like this more often in future maps if I decide to continue mapping.

And since someone posted while I was typing this I guess I'll respond there too because I have a few things to say and I think I'm in the right to since Innocent Starter is also half my map.

I try to respect the mapper's style and vision, but the whole point of the ranking system is to ensure that only beatmaps with a certain level of quality get ranked.
I'm all for quality control; I used to be a big StepMania player before osu and I've seen the garbage that people upload onto Bemanistyle and call "simfiles", it's terrible. But the quality control system has to work properly, and when there's tag ranking going on left and right, for other BATs and their buddies and their beatmap projects, while other maps get ignored for so long, there's a problem. And if there's a glitch in the system you fix it, not ignore it, because turning a blind eye will only allow the situation to exacerbate over time.

And I'd give you my opinion on the map if I thought you'd listen to it. But if you can't stop thinking that your map is perfect, then you can never achieve perfection.
Missing the point.

My difficulty is not perfect, I know that. Neither is hers. We're not claiming that, I'm not sure where you derived that from. Refusing to change any aspect of the maps is proof of dedication to this belief, that's all. This map's intent is not to get ranked; if it does somehow, then cool I guess, but most likely it will not. It is my hope that people will still be able to play and enjoy this map and appreciate it for being at least of good/decent quality, albeit not perfect, regardless of if it is ranked or not.
Larto
4,128 posts
Joined June 2008
Larto
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Mystearica
Topic Starter
Mystearica
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
James
osu! Hall of Famer
4,371 posts
Joined January 2008
James
Someone wants me to post here.

Not to mention the fact that the BAT members have proven mapping talent
Dood. Don't make me laugh. some BATs doesn't even know what they're doing when modding.
I don't want to point out who is which, they know who they are, and use a little bit of your brain when modding.


@ Mystearica
I don't know who you are but you totally sound like me before... lol


1) New BATs mod like a crazy for a few weeks or months
2) They become more and more lazy. They ignore the public and start to tag rank each other
This is true. But I'm pretty sure BATs are aware of this already.
If you think this is not true, I'll be gladly to mention names on this one...



@people who want the system to be changed
You can't change it, until you found a "better" idea to be more effective/efficient than the current system.


One last thing:

Echo@modlounge wrote:

This is why, imo, nazi modding is bad for us; it teaches mappers to map and to look at maps in a kinda systematic way. It stifles creativitiy.
Totally agreed on this.


Darri FTW~


-o-


I know nothing will be changed on whatever I will say here but here goes my random modding.


Nanoha:
The whole layout is nice, except for jumps.
And yeah, reduce the circle size by 1 grid/tick.
You know why? Even newbie mappers will still have a bad score on your map.
If you feel like your map is for newbies, well.. I don't know what to say..
I felt like the map was too hard for newbies... blablabla
Its like making a really insane map with super low drain rate just to make players pass the map.
*** I'm just basing this on how I mod maps before, I know a lot of normal maps now have jumps and follow the vocals, instead of mapping with the use of the beat. Silly mappers.
If you want a map to be enjoyed by newbies and they will have fun playing it, don't make such maps for newbies.


Fate:
Hmmm those triplets (3 1/4 beat circles) on some parts doesnt fit with anything, bgm/layout.
Even those quick streams (5+ 1/4 beat circles) doesnt match with anything.
and if you're trying to make your own rhythm... well, i already said with my above post.
Maybe it will sound better if you add hitsounds... who knows? lol
If I were to map this, I'd rather just stick with the bgm instead of making its own rhythm...
Because the default normal-hitnormal hitsound sounds good already even without any whistle/clap/finish.
01:29:65 (7,1) - spacing for this is obviously too far, you can adjust 7 to fix it. I almost tripped out on this even though I know the lyrics for this song.


END
MegaManEXE
710 posts
Here since the beginning
MegaManEXE

James wrote:

I know nothing will be changed on whatever I will say here but here goes my random modding.

Nanoha:
The whole layout is nice, except for jumps.
And yeah, reduce the circle size by 1 grid/tick.
You know why? Even newbie mappers will still have a bad score on your map.
If you feel like your map is for newbies, well.. I don't know what to say..
I felt like the map was too hard for newbies... blablabla
Its like making a really insane map with super low drain rate just to make players pass the map.
*** I'm just basing this on how I mod maps before, I know a lot of normal maps now have jumps and follow the vocals, instead of mapping with the use of the beat. Silly mappers.
If you want a map to be enjoyed by newbies and they will have fun playing it, don't make such maps for newbies.
No idea if you'll be back to read this or not but I truly do appreciate the input on this.

I only made the circle size large because I felt like if I was going to put jumps I should give them big targets to hit I guess.

Maybe I could have reduced the spacing a bit on them. At any rate, it's a decent training map for jumps for newbies I suppose?

Thank you though for your advice, I will keep it in mind when I make future normals.
abalee
osu! Alumni
1,994 posts
Joined June 2008
abalee
:(
Card N'FoRcE
osu! Alumni
4,058 posts
Here since the beginning
Card N'FoRcE
Ok, i read the whole topic (hope i understood everything), but i honestly don't get your point.

Mystearica wrote:

Just what is this beatmapping system? You make a map, you submit, people come rape your map to make it "rankable" and then you receive crap scores because people can't full combo your map. Whatever happened to your own style?
Oh please, that's just not what happens here. I agree with this only if there's someone who nazimods a map. You know, people won't give you low scores if your map is not FCable (Marisa and Kanbu, anyone?). People gives low scores when they don't like a map and there's always someone who won't like your map (or they're just trolls). If you like your style that's cool, you should map as you want to.

Mystearica wrote:

The very means of getting your beatmap ranked as it is right now is destroying every single bit of creativity any mapper could have possibly been born with.
I partially agree with this, anyway creativity is a weird thing. As we're discussing here, creativity is kinda subjective and sometimes =/= fun, but that's not the point. The ranking system was not made to destroy your creativity, but to let that creativity be playable. And i honestly think that BATs nowadays are more open to weird things as they've never been before. You know, most of what people give when modding are suggestions. Sometimes you can say "no" if you feel something doesn't fit your style (yeah i do that often and sometimes i had to deny kudosus for that). So, this statement leaves me perplexed.

Mystearica wrote:

I am tired of seeing BAT maps getting tag ranked instantly everyday while so many other mappers beg and beg to get any attention. There is no such thing as fairness in this system. If your name in chat isn't red, you do not exist. As much as I hate seeing this, I am a powerless individual who cannot bring about any change. But you know what? I tried.
Oh, i already "fought" this thing twice, so i won't repeat myself again

Mystearica wrote:

I will proudly say that I never mapped songs for them to become ranked. I mapped them because I love them. I mapped them because I wanted to share them with the rest of you. If you map with the sole intention of getting your map ranked, then I believe you shouldn't be mapping at all.
Well, some people map to get their maps ranked, but that's their problem

Mystearica wrote:

Yes I know James has a wonderful full version of this song mapped. I do not intend to compare myself to James (there's no way I possibly could), so you don't have to go out of your way to flame me. This is merely my final tribute to the Nanoha series and Mizuki Nana and I really wanted to share this with those who love the series and this song in particular.
Oh for god's sake i hate sentences like that one. James is not the only great mapper here! (He surely was of great importance for osu!, i can't deny it). Anyone can become a great mapper when his maps are liked by people. Then, nothing bans your song just because it was already mapped, there are some songs mapped twice here.

So, as i said many times, i don't think there are problems with this system. The main problem is that there are lots of pending maps and checking them all is incredibily hard. The system is not to blame for this.

(If you misunderstand something please blame my english >.<)

About the map, here's my modding (yeah, it's pending and i can mod it).
The map is fine overall and plays fine too. Timing seems ok when playing.
Like James and James039 told you before, in [Fate] there are some "random" triplets that feel weird, but that's not something so bad.
About [Nanoha], yeah, circle size seems a bit big, but that's something optional too.
This part felt a bit forced to me: 01:03:97 (4,5,6). Hiding things when you're trying to make a mapo for beginners is kinda cruel :P
The map is cool, so here's a star.

EDIT: ok, now that i read carefully Alace's thread too, this is more clear to me. Sorry, i saw this as a rage to the system and not as a wish to make it better (i dunno why, but i read this thread in that way). Anyway, i won't ask you to forgive me or anything: i raged at you and i was silly.
Last edited by Card N'FoRcE , edited 1 time in total.
GolGate
102 posts
Joined May 2009
GolGate
I was going to post my idea, but then, I realized that I have no ranked map.
It has no point at all if I don't face it myself, right?

Anyway here's my original intention in case someone cares:

SPOILER
One difference here.

Mysterica wrote:

I will proudly say that I never mapped songs for them to become ranked. I mapped them because I love them. I mapped them because I wanted to share them with the rest of you. If you map with the sole intention of getting your map ranked, then I believe you shouldn't be mapping at all.
I'll admit this: I want my songs ranked.
I map because I want to share the song. But, I'm not going to plant another Lemon Tree for any sake.
What does it mean? It means I'm not going to let it die in the graveyard due to the inability to be ranked of the map. I am not that great enough.
The only thing I can do right now is to get it ranked, have some people play it, and the rest is fine -- I finished my objective, and I'm a bit happy.

So hurtful (orly), but I think I'll struggle, seeing that I'm somehow stupid that I can't think of a better solution for this.
James
osu! Hall of Famer
4,371 posts
Joined January 2008
James
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Mystearica
Topic Starter
Mystearica
If this was any other map James I would change it as you suggested but only this one I absolutely won't be willing to change, but thank you for looking and providing feedback, if I ever do create a map in the future I'll keep what you said here in mind.

I know nothing will come about even if I do something like this but I guess I'm just one those who can't live it down without saying something. Call me stupid lol.

And honestly (this is not to discredit what you said about the Nanoha difficulty being too difficult, I admit it's slightly higher up on the Normal side, more like a Normal+) these days there have been maps with 2 difficulties that have had even more difficult "Normals" being ranked, so I would agree with you for saying the playing standards have gone up. Just how much exactly they've gone up I really don't know, I'm just an osu nub :( (I still barely manage 80% on agony Insane ~_~)

When I do come back to this game I will most likely add an "easy difficulty" to this song because of what you've said. Your Innocent Starter was my first map installed so I of course respect your opinion as a great mapper. Problem is I honestly don't know what I'd call it since Hayate wasn't even in the first season of MSLN, having a "Fate" "Nanoha" then "Easy" just seems a bit awkward orz

If you're still reading, feel free to pop in a name lol.
Gens
osu! Alumni
3,485 posts
Joined August 2008
Gens
Wow, this thread is interesting. o3o

I must agree modding has become more... Well, I better keep my opinion away from this thread until someone opens up another thread in General Discussion. ;x

Starred for great justice.
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