русская версия этого поста: community/forums/topics/1635625
sup
tl;dr
OSU! has latency issues that prevent to play it with calibrated offset and using hitsounds at the same time.
There is simple fix to this problem that requires a bit different method of playing.
If there was a way to sync music and hitsounds as (kinda) one audio track in game then it would resolve a number of issues with gameplay.
Latency is the main one as everything audio related would obey to global offset.
Only downside of this method is that the hitsounds would always be audible so player should track his errors himself,
by comparing hitsounds in audio with sounds of his keyboard and tactile feedback.
This system was realised in A Dance of Fire and Ice for example.
I outlined the situation to peppy but he declined the idea as he himself "... really dislike rhythm games that automate this playback (of hitsounds)."
Link to the discussion: https://github.com/ppy/osu/discussions/19915
If you want that idea being considered as valuable by peppy and his team - write some comment on github discussion up there and upvote.
Comment pushes this discussion to the top so it's again visible by peppy and co.
Maybe if not peppy himself but his team notice it and they would think about it seriously.
I already talked with my friends that play osu and couple dozens of top players.
Mostly they agree that this feature could be useful and will not hurt anyone as just an option.
Some of them upvoted discussion and wrote some comment, so i know i'm not alone with this idea.
I can give a little demo of what it feels like.
AxewB proposed this idea to me, so all thanks to him.
Record hitsounds and combine it with original music as single track
Replace audio track on map.
Setup your offset correctly
Turn off hitsounds
And that's all
I did a couple maps here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Rlrca-Ca_-zzBLJuWpT1zdlCS8FDr-40?usp=sharing
Try 'em.
Or diy 'em.
I'll try to make a couple more maps.
Or send me an audio if you made it yourself. I'll add it to the folder.
Basically, that's most of i wanted to say.
Thank you for your time.
Q&A
- What the hell is latency?
We're talking about audio latency here mostly.
Audio latency is a time between you press button and sound coming from your speakers.
Integrated sound cards usually have 30 to 90ms latency.
Which means after you press a key it only comes out with 30 to 90ms delay in that case.
Here's video that greatly demonstrate it:
https://youtu.be/U3_b4UEYoWM
- Why should i care about it?
Latency fundamentally changes how you interact with any application.
Especially with rhythm games.
If you didn't correct your offset you need to press early to compensate delay in sound that latency causes.
Which basically means that you must play behind music to be precise.
Which means that you not only need to follow the rhythm but to keep in mind that you cannot play exactly to music but a bit early.
Which will get worse the more latency you have.
Different machines have different latency in them so you can't play the same on different PC's for example.
And if you set up your offset correctly in osu you can play to the music
But you can't use hitsounds as they are no longer synced to the music.
Which is more annoying depending on what mode you play.
KcHecKa made a great video visualising it:
https://youtu.be/i3tx-jKbcpc
- My PC is A BEAST so I don't have latensy, right?
No, it doesn't work that way.
Every sound card made with the idea that it needs some time to process sound before ouput.
So latency is a thing no matter what you use.
It's just a matter of how much delay you will experience.
- So, why hitsounds are a problem exactly?
Hitsounds in Osu programmed to output as fast as sound card can process it.
As explained above, processing is not instant.
So hitsounds come in 10, 20, 30, 50, 100ms from you pressing the key.
It depends on your sound card.
You may not notice it because when playing on 0 offset main music track is already whatever milliseconds delayed.
And when you press your button hitsound comes out with the same delay.
So hitsounds and music are synced.
But they all happen in the future.
- I can play with latency no problems and if you cannot just get gud.
You play with latency.
And that's totally fine.
You absolutely can learn to play with latency on any level of skill.
As people who play dark souls on bananas or with voice commands without ever getting hit.
Or like people with disabilities learn to play different games.
If you have dedication you can learn to play with any method you like.
I mean... blind people play counter strike on global elite.
But it's not a question of ability ot skill.
It's a question of comfort.
Some people, highly sensitive to latency, like me, would like to have option to play with hitsounds as offset already is a feature
.
As it turned out, players who even know that latency is an existing concept is really small group of people here.
Some top players i spoke about it didn't even knew about it.
Many people don't even know if they like to play with or without offset.
There is no offset master at the start of the osu like in many other rhythm games.
So it's easy to miss out.
- peppy said he would fix the latency issues, why should he bother with your idea?
There are some downsides to what he wants to do.
But no solution is perfect.
So let's discuss it.
Here"s peppy quote from my discussion on github: "We do have plans to add methods of reducing audio latency for those that are very sensitive to it, but of course this will require appropriate hardware to make work (low latency audio is hard and requires good driver and hardware support)."
I'll translate: "We will rewrite Osu audio driver to support dedicated audio hardware so you can use it with the game"
First of all, I think that every rhythm game if possible, needs to have support for ASIO or any other thing to support audio hardware.
And i would love to see this implemented.
But it's not without inconveniences.
So, guys... how many of you have bought 100$, 200$, 300$ audio interface to play osu with low latency?
Some audio cards have horrible drivers on windows and latency on them is worse than integrated sound cards.
So you need a hella research for this.
Well. Let's imagine you have your trusty interface ready for gaming.
For minimal latency you need to configure high sample rate and low buffer size on it.
These make your CPU work hard so you need good pricy one.
I have a laptop. And i like to play osu in cafe. Eating pizza.
Soooo. Good audio interfaces are usually these bulky heavy metal boxes.
And i need tablet too.
Imagine carrying all of this around. Connecting.
And yeah, your laptop should be a beast or this all doesn't make a sense.
My solution will work on any machine with no cost on performance or money.
Yeah, again, it's not perfect too. As you need to play in a bit different way.
But it's the only downside i can think of.
- I want to know my exact latency in game. Is there a way to know it?
Yes.
I have a method to know your latency up to one or two milliseconds.
This method eliminate human errors when playing yourself so you don't need to guess much.
Now it's a beatmap.
Check the description.
beatmapsets/1840268#osu/3779693
Ending the conversation
Well. I think that's it for now.
Feel free to tell me if i'm wrong.
Feel free to tell me it i'm right
Tell somethin' to peppy
Feel free to just text me.
And of course most of this all is from my point of view.
And not a definitive thing.
Have a nice day and drink water.
sup
tl;dr
OSU! has latency issues that prevent to play it with calibrated offset and using hitsounds at the same time.
There is simple fix to this problem that requires a bit different method of playing.
If there was a way to sync music and hitsounds as (kinda) one audio track in game then it would resolve a number of issues with gameplay.
Latency is the main one as everything audio related would obey to global offset.
Only downside of this method is that the hitsounds would always be audible so player should track his errors himself,
by comparing hitsounds in audio with sounds of his keyboard and tactile feedback.
This system was realised in A Dance of Fire and Ice for example.
I outlined the situation to peppy but he declined the idea as he himself "... really dislike rhythm games that automate this playback (of hitsounds)."
Link to the discussion: https://github.com/ppy/osu/discussions/19915
If you want that idea being considered as valuable by peppy and his team - write some comment on github discussion up there and upvote.
Comment pushes this discussion to the top so it's again visible by peppy and co.
Maybe if not peppy himself but his team notice it and they would think about it seriously.
I already talked with my friends that play osu and couple dozens of top players.
Mostly they agree that this feature could be useful and will not hurt anyone as just an option.
Some of them upvoted discussion and wrote some comment, so i know i'm not alone with this idea.
I can give a little demo of what it feels like.
AxewB proposed this idea to me, so all thanks to him.
Record hitsounds and combine it with original music as single track
Replace audio track on map.
Setup your offset correctly
Turn off hitsounds
And that's all
I did a couple maps here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Rlrca-Ca_-zzBLJuWpT1zdlCS8FDr-40?usp=sharing
Try 'em.
Or diy 'em.
I'll try to make a couple more maps.
Or send me an audio if you made it yourself. I'll add it to the folder.
Basically, that's most of i wanted to say.
Thank you for your time.
Q&A
- What the hell is latency?
We're talking about audio latency here mostly.
Audio latency is a time between you press button and sound coming from your speakers.
Integrated sound cards usually have 30 to 90ms latency.
Which means after you press a key it only comes out with 30 to 90ms delay in that case.
Here's video that greatly demonstrate it:
https://youtu.be/U3_b4UEYoWM
- Why should i care about it?
Latency fundamentally changes how you interact with any application.
Especially with rhythm games.
If you didn't correct your offset you need to press early to compensate delay in sound that latency causes.
Which basically means that you must play behind music to be precise.
Which means that you not only need to follow the rhythm but to keep in mind that you cannot play exactly to music but a bit early.
Which will get worse the more latency you have.
Different machines have different latency in them so you can't play the same on different PC's for example.
And if you set up your offset correctly in osu you can play to the music
But you can't use hitsounds as they are no longer synced to the music.
Which is more annoying depending on what mode you play.
KcHecKa made a great video visualising it:
https://youtu.be/i3tx-jKbcpc
- My PC is A BEAST so I don't have latensy, right?
No, it doesn't work that way.
Every sound card made with the idea that it needs some time to process sound before ouput.
So latency is a thing no matter what you use.
It's just a matter of how much delay you will experience.
- So, why hitsounds are a problem exactly?
Hitsounds in Osu programmed to output as fast as sound card can process it.
As explained above, processing is not instant.
So hitsounds come in 10, 20, 30, 50, 100ms from you pressing the key.
It depends on your sound card.
You may not notice it because when playing on 0 offset main music track is already whatever milliseconds delayed.
And when you press your button hitsound comes out with the same delay.
So hitsounds and music are synced.
But they all happen in the future.
- I can play with latency no problems and if you cannot just get gud.
You play with latency.
And that's totally fine.
You absolutely can learn to play with latency on any level of skill.
As people who play dark souls on bananas or with voice commands without ever getting hit.
Or like people with disabilities learn to play different games.
If you have dedication you can learn to play with any method you like.
I mean... blind people play counter strike on global elite.
But it's not a question of ability ot skill.
It's a question of comfort.
Some people, highly sensitive to latency, like me, would like to have option to play with hitsounds as offset already is a feature
.
As it turned out, players who even know that latency is an existing concept is really small group of people here.
Some top players i spoke about it didn't even knew about it.
Many people don't even know if they like to play with or without offset.
There is no offset master at the start of the osu like in many other rhythm games.
So it's easy to miss out.
- peppy said he would fix the latency issues, why should he bother with your idea?
There are some downsides to what he wants to do.
But no solution is perfect.
So let's discuss it.
Here"s peppy quote from my discussion on github: "We do have plans to add methods of reducing audio latency for those that are very sensitive to it, but of course this will require appropriate hardware to make work (low latency audio is hard and requires good driver and hardware support)."
I'll translate: "We will rewrite Osu audio driver to support dedicated audio hardware so you can use it with the game"
First of all, I think that every rhythm game if possible, needs to have support for ASIO or any other thing to support audio hardware.
And i would love to see this implemented.
But it's not without inconveniences.
So, guys... how many of you have bought 100$, 200$, 300$ audio interface to play osu with low latency?
Some audio cards have horrible drivers on windows and latency on them is worse than integrated sound cards.
So you need a hella research for this.
Well. Let's imagine you have your trusty interface ready for gaming.
For minimal latency you need to configure high sample rate and low buffer size on it.
These make your CPU work hard so you need good pricy one.
I have a laptop. And i like to play osu in cafe. Eating pizza.
Soooo. Good audio interfaces are usually these bulky heavy metal boxes.
And i need tablet too.
Imagine carrying all of this around. Connecting.
And yeah, your laptop should be a beast or this all doesn't make a sense.
My solution will work on any machine with no cost on performance or money.
Yeah, again, it's not perfect too. As you need to play in a bit different way.
But it's the only downside i can think of.
- I want to know my exact latency in game. Is there a way to know it?
Yes.
I have a method to know your latency up to one or two milliseconds.
This method eliminate human errors when playing yourself so you don't need to guess much.
Now it's a beatmap.
Check the description.
beatmapsets/1840268#osu/3779693
Ending the conversation
Well. I think that's it for now.
Feel free to tell me if i'm wrong.
Feel free to tell me it i'm right
Tell somethin' to peppy
Feel free to just text me.
And of course most of this all is from my point of view.
And not a definitive thing.
Have a nice day and drink water.