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[osu!mania] - Number of keys in autoconvert maps

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +2
Topic Starter
Cozzzy
First off: I know o!m is a new gamemode and that any problems will vanish over time as the community makes more maps, but it will be a long time until we have many o!m-specific maps. Until then, ranking is mostly done on autoconverts, which often seem to play surprisingly well IMO.

At the moment, the number of keys on autoconvert maps typically (but don't always) look like this:

Easy - 4K

Normal - 5K

Hard - 6K/7K

Insane - 7K

8K - never happens
So, this game is all about 7K, and the lower #K is really only useful for farming hards or playing with friends. The real problem though, is that there is no natural way of learning 7K with this spread.

Currently, the only way to learn 7K is to go out of your way to find o!m-specific easy 7K maps, or to use the #K mod (which I didn't even know about for months, until I clicked it by accident one day) - you can't learn 7K from simply playing through your maps like osu!std or other game modes.

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Basically, my request is simply for the number of keys in autoconverts to be unrelated to the difficulty of the map. One way this is possible is to randomise this number on the creation of osu!std maps (to keep it consistent for all clients).

This would create naturally occuring 7K easy/normal/hard maps for players to play through without having their score nerfed by mods they may not know exist, as well as giving players of other #K some fun maps to play on, rather than normals or whatever. Additionally, 8K players would have maps to play (personally - I've only seen like, one ranked 8K map, though there might be a couple more). The top players at the moment have nothing to worry about either, because they can just drop keys if it isn't 7K. :D

Thoughts?
Sea_Food

Cozzzy wrote:

This would create naturally occuring 7K easy/normal/hard maps
Your whole idea is based on this sentence. Which does not make any sense.

The maps are auto converts. None of them are anything even remotely related to natural. The 7k mod for easy/normal maps works just aswell now as it would with ur suggestion. Only thing ur suggestion would do is cause disorder in the beatmaps so that the score multiplier could be just compleatly random for the majority of people who only like to play with one set of keys.

without having their score nerfed
For people who have to play normal/easy maps 10-20% score decrease really is irrelevant, because other things affect it just so much more.

by mods they may not know exist
If that is a problem, this definetly would not be the logical way to fix it
Topic Starter
Cozzzy

Sea_Food wrote:

Cozzzy wrote:

This would create naturally occuring 7K easy/normal/hard maps
Your whole idea is based on this sentence. Which does not make any sense.

The maps are auto converts. None of them are anything even remotely related to natural.
I never implied the maps would be more natural; only that those maps would occur naturally in mania mode, without the player going out of their way to find training maps, use training mods or going to play BMS instead for like two years.

Actually, my point is that the way things are now, you can't really get good at mania by just playing mania. A 7K player can easily play any lower #K, but there is no way a new player can go from playing 6K to 7K insanes, which is exactly how the difficulties work atm. You can learn from autoconverts, just not high level patterns, which you'd pick up elsewhere anyway if you got that far.

Only thing ur suggestion would do is cause disorder in the beatmaps so that the score multiplier could be just compleatly random for the majority of people who only like to play with one set of keys.
Actually, this would be great for people who only play one set of keys - assuming they don't just play 7K, they have more maps to score on, and the score penalty for them will typically be lower. I can see how it would be annoying if you accidentally played with too many keys though, so this would have to be more clear on beatmap selection.
TouchFluffyTail
If anything this request should be "make the #key mods an entire row rather than a click toggle so people don't overlook the fact you can use any amount of keys on any autoconverted map". I agree that playing lower keys doesn't really help you learn higher keys, but if you're playing normals with 7k mod and getting B/C ranks, the actual score hit you take doesn't really matter since you're not going to be top 50 anyway. (though you might, just because some autoconverts are so rarely played they don't even have 50 ranks :P ) So you should just use the mod.

I can't really get behind changing the autoconvert system itself though, mostly because 7k autoconverts are BAD and not actually good for learning real mania maps at all other than getting your fingers used to rows.
Mania is still a bit weird, because you have to put in extracurricular activity to actually get a good spread of maps, since they aren't as readily available as standard is.
PyaKura
Actually learning to play o!m through autoconverts is a bad idea to begin with unless you're really learning the basics. Autoconverts are simply terrible and don't make any sense at all :/
Nvm that has already been stated above lol.

Well anyway, to put it simply, the #K mods are there for this exact purpose. If one want to play with another set of keys than the one set by default, they just need to use the K mods. You use these mods to practise anyway, so if you're aiming to get some top scores with a different set of keys you're doing it wrong. There is still a lot to do with o!m from both sides (staff/devs and community) and eventually this kind of "issue" (I don't consider this an issue really) will be sorted out as we get more ranked mania-spec maps. O!m's still growing, and I'm pretty sure things will get better and faster around or after the first MWC. Until then new players should just play around with these K mods.
Topic Starter
Cozzzy
This isn't just about 7K though - the whole thing doesn't make much sense. It implies players should learn 4/5/6K, only to drop those styles and play only 7K after a certain point. I kind of messed up getting this across in the OP, might edit it up there.

Oh, and we all know the autoconverts will never stand up to mania-specific maps (the one thing we've established so far... XD), but they're still the only real way to rank up at the moment, so we can't just ignore them completely. Things will definitely pick up after MWC, but autoconverts will still be the main way people rank (unless autoconverts get nerfed in a few years)

also TouchFluffyTail I LOVE YOUR SKINS
Sea_Food

Cozzzy wrote:

A 7K player can easily play any lower #K, but there is no way a new player can go from playing 6K to 7K insanes,
.
He can play 7k mod in normal maps.

Besides, i dont know how common it is because I have played really many rythm games, with DDR being the closest to o!m, but it took me like 20minutes of practice before i could clear the first 7k auto converts because the HP drain is so low.
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