The LGBT Thread





Thank you everyone! Hopefully this can be a positive thing for the osu! community! I will continue updating the OP with valid information and interesting things.

Hi, I'm Moway. I like mapping and playing, both at a mediocre level. I also like many other video games, music, writing, and all sorts of other things. I also happen to be openly gay. I came out about 5 years ago, and my family was really great about everything. Looking forward to hearing from all sorts of other people!

I'd say the osu! community is pretty accepting of the LGBT community, so I don't see the biggest thing about a thread.

I'd consider myself closet tranny, but I don't know if it's just a phase or if it's like really, if that counts enough to be in the thread

CDFA wrote:

I'd say the osu! community is pretty accepting of the LGBT community, so I don't see the biggest thing about a thread.

I'd consider myself closet tranny, but I don't know if it's just a phase or if it's like really, if that counts enough to be in the thread

I suppose that's true, but I wanted to see if there was any interest from the community. If not, it'll be okay if this thread dies. Also you are definitely welcome here.

Why not just try to fit in with other people instead of making your own little safe haven. I mean, the osu! community is probably the best community NOT to do this "gaymer" thing, almost everyone here is emasculated and feminine enough not to care if you're openly LGBT or whatever else there is.

There has been a previous thread about gay rights: just here. You can see by yourself how the community reacted but iirc it was pretty good (the thread is not even locked, see!)

(personal opinion incoming)

while i think that the surge in the LGBT movement is an excellent thing and it is fantastic that we have begun to move away from thousands of years of persecution over something that really isn't anyone else's business, i often wonder if the overt visibility of the LGBT movement and the "gay culture" that it has begun to represent is necessarily a constructive thing. i can understand that heterosexuality is sometimes celebrated by both its prevalence in many social schemas and the social imagination at large, but even overt displays of ardent heterosexuality are heavily limited by the authorities for the sake of "tasteful" concealment in the age old adage of "protect the children".

i often wonder - is there really any need for the massive gay pride parades and mardi gras? many people have what I call a benign-neutral view of LGBT issues in that they truthfully do not affect them in the slightest, and honestly do not really care what other people do in the bedroom or who they take as partners. i find these parades and outward displays of sexuality (both in the heterosexual and homosexual sense) often cause people to align against the LGBT movement because they are opposed to overt displays of sexuality, not necessarily homosexuality itself. the controversial russian "gay propaganda" laws were precipitated under a similar guise (though there is almost certainly a very real trend of persecution there, perhaps not the best example)

what do people think about this?

Princess wrote:

Why not just try to fit in with other people instead of making your own little safe haven. I mean, the osu! community is probably the best community NOT to do this "gaymer" thing, almost everyone here is emasculated and feminine enough not to care if you're openly LGBT or whatever else there is.

Thanks for the post! I hear this a lot from a lot of people, even a lot of other gay people. It's certainly a fair argument, especially in a community like this which is generally accepting. However, this is not the case for a lot of people in their lives outside this community, and I hope to provide a place for people to talk about their lives, not just about video games. Just because this community is generally positive toward bent people does not mean that there is no valuable discussion to be had.

XPJ38 wrote:

There has been a previous thread about gay rights: just here. You can see by yourself how the community reacted but iirc it was pretty good (the thread is not even locked, see!)

That's good! I'm glad that this community has been positive about everything, but gay rights isn't the only thing worth talking about. I want to talk about things like coming out (positive experiences, negative experiences, tips), dating, community events, etc., as well as whatever anyone else wants to talk about.

Ephemeral wrote:

(personal opinion incoming)

while i think that the surge in the LGBT movement is an excellent thing and it is fantastic that we have begun to move away from thousands of years of persecution over something that really isn't anyone else's business, i often wonder if the overt visibility of the LGBT movement and the "gay culture" that it has begun to represent is necessarily a constructive thing. i can understand that heterosexuality is sometimes celebrated by both its prevalence in many social schemas and the social imagination at large, but even overt displays of ardent heterosexuality are heavily limited by the authorities for the sake of "tasteful" concealment in the age old adage of "protect the children".

i often wonder - is there really any need for the massive gay pride parades and mardi gras? many people have what I call a benign-neutral view of LGBT issues in that they truthfully do not affect them in the slightest, and honestly do not really care what other people do in the bedroom or who they take as partners. i find these parades and outward displays of sexuality (both in the heterosexual and homosexual sense) often cause people to align against the LGBT movement because they are opposed to overt displays of sexuality, not necessarily homosexuality itself. the controversial russian "gay propaganda" laws were precipitated under a similar guise (though there is almost certainly a very real trend of persecution there, perhaps not the best example)

what do people think about this?

I know I'm about to double post, but I feel that this is worth it's own post so here it is. This argument is very fair and valid. Personally, I am not "one of those gays" who is really wild about crazy stuff like what people typically think of in a gay pride parade. What I will speak of is my own experience at my very first pride parade which I went to this year. I think for a while I shared the sentiment with you that parades seem to provide a more negative than positive image toward people who have the "benign-neutral" view toward LGBT people. However after my first pride, I have a completely different view of these type of things.

First of all, a big chunk of the parade was corporate representation. A lot of big name companies had sections for their employees to march in support of LGBT rights wearing clothing to show their affiliation (mostly just shirts and shorts). So for me, the parade was a lot less wild than I thought it would be.

Needless to say, there was a lot of that crazy stuff going on as well. While I do not and probably will never partake in that kind of thing, I think we have to look back on history (at least American) to really understand why the parades are like this. Back in the old timey days (probably 50s, I'm not a super knowledgeable expert), being gay in public was extremely frowned upon. In order to do anything, homosexuals had to meet at these super secret locations which, even with the secrecy, were suspect to police activity and the like. I'm sorry I can't provide super concrete details on all of this, but let's just say that repression was the name of the game. I think as being LGBT became more accepted and people could actually be themselves in public, it became a very happy thing. As a result, parades. People get to show the world who they are and can be as open as they would like. I think this just kind of continued until the present in celebration of openness and identity.

Now, the issue is whether or not this presents a positive image. I can very easily see how public "flaunting" (for the lack of a better term) of sexuality can be extremely offputting. In my own life, I am for the most part very private about sex. I think for people who are really bothered by overt sexuality, maybe for parades and stuff the best thing might be to just go to one in person if they haven't already. For me, I got to see both sides of the parades and appreciate them for what they are. I really liked seeing ordinary people march and stand up for themselves and what they believe in. As for overt sexuality, maybe understanding the roots of that would help, and if not maybe seeing both sides of the coin might help out somewhat.

TL:DR, my opinion is that overt sexuality generally doesn't help the cause because of the reasons that you mentioned, but I think that there is merit to it and I think that people can learn to understand and appreciate it. Sorry this isn't more coherent.

Ephemeral wrote:

(personal opinion incoming)

while i think that the surge in the LGBT movement is an excellent thing and it is fantastic that we have begun to move away from thousands of years of persecution over something that really isn't anyone else's business, i often wonder if the overt visibility of the LGBT movement and the "gay culture" that it has begun to represent is necessarily a constructive thing. i can understand that heterosexuality is sometimes celebrated by both its prevalence in many social schemas and the social imagination at large, but even overt displays of ardent heterosexuality are heavily limited by the authorities for the sake of "tasteful" concealment in the age old adage of "protect the children".

i often wonder - is there really any need for the massive gay pride parades and mardi gras? many people have what I call a benign-neutral view of LGBT issues in that they truthfully do not affect them in the slightest, and honestly do not really care what other people do in the bedroom or who they take as partners. i find these parades and outward displays of sexuality (both in the heterosexual and homosexual sense) often cause people to align against the LGBT movement because they are opposed to overt displays of sexuality, not necessarily homosexuality itself. the controversial russian "gay propaganda" laws were precipitated under a similar guise (though there is almost certainly a very real trend of persecution there, perhaps not the best example)

what do people think about this?

You really need to consider what ardent heterosexuality is; in this culture, heterosexual sexuality not really tied to a demographic because it is the norm. If a family turns on a TV and sees a straight couple making out in public or something, they're not going to think "these straight people are disgusting", they're going to think "these people/this act is disgusting". Homosexual sexuality is definitely not more prominent or vulgar in media than any heterosexual sexuality. I would still go to say that it's still underrepresented

Also, the thing about pride parades is that they're generally not geared towards appeasing straight people. It's about being proud of surviving in an oppressive world and not being ashamed of something that has a huge stigma towards it that they were born with. And yes, the survival aspect is still important even outside of countries that regularly outright torture open homosexuals; LGBT suicide is a pretty massive thing. The common argument that they can reinforce stereotypes about femininity, sexuality and other such things is sort of ironic because these things have no reason to be stigmatized either.

Finally, it's not really surprising that most people you know have an accepting or apathetic view towards it considering you're a 20-something in a higher academic environment. It's different if you're actually queer and exposed to a homophobic world. A close friend of mine was bullied pretty badly throughout primary and high school because of his sexuality and femininity. My grandparents would probably never speak to me if they knew about me and it's hurtful to have my brother use homophobic slurs like they're nothing even if he is accepting because it just reminds me how normal this level of homophobia is.

Yo', I wish I could read both Moway & Jarby's post cause that's interesting and I'm kinda busy.

Going to stick this thread somewhere in my mind and going to take a look anytime there's something new c:

Princess wrote:

SPOILER

Why not just try to fit in with other people instead of making your own little safe haven. I mean, the osu! community is probably the best community NOT to do this "gaymer" thing, almost everyone here is emasculated and feminine enough not to care if you're openly LGBT or whatever else there is.

I'm pretty sure the deal is not running away from those who are different, rather finding and connecting with people you can relate to. This is what just about all communities are about.

sorry to break it for you

but this place aint different like any other gaming forum you mentioned in the 1st post

well ofc this place is friendlier,but still y're not going to get anything in this place either

Facepunch has very active lgbt threads. Although I don't see myself using a thread like this, I don't mind it being here, at least for there to be some place to go for people who do run into issues or just want to talk about things related to the subject.

I don't see why anyone would mind it. Just don't take your time going in to the thread if you don't like it .<.

oops I'm late in discovering this thread

boat summarized it best in her posts: Threads like this are about finding comfort in similar people, a portion of a community who can actually discuss issues that relate to them in a way that is still comfortable.

Most posts I see online tend to go the way of, "Why do they need this? It's so exclusive," or "I don't see the need to make such a big deal about it." It's because we are not as accepted as certain people think we are. The overt nature of a lot of LGBTQ rights events/factions is because of our lack of acceptance and underrepresentation still, despite the change in mindset in our current age brackets and younger. One of the major reasons many people get the reaction of "Why is this such a big deal to them" or "I don't feel like this overt display is necessary" is because, like Jarby said, they celebrate surviving in a society that is still changing to see that they are, in fact, not as horrible or different as what they told they were by society.

...well this post was redundant. Just would like to keep a thread like this alive.

I'm bi. I just let everyone assume I'm straight. Most LGBTs can probably guess why I do that. >.>

Ephemeral wrote:

*snip*

what do people think about this?

A lot of LGBTs think that they are all alone. They never realize that in a room of 50 random adults they would, on average, be able to form a small clique of several fellow LGBTs. No, many are convinced that in a room of hundreds of people they are likely the only LGBT there. Oh, and many straight people in the same room will assume that everybody there is straight and that if they encounter a LGBT there that it's likely the only LGBT there.

The main purpose of said LGBT events is to let people know that there are plenty of LGBTs out there. The recognition is important. It's important for people to know that the number of LGBTs out there, while still a very decisive minority, is still big enough to matter. Very few people here seem to get irked by it, either.

Oh, and almost half of adult voters in my state voted in favor of a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage (vote was like 50% to 48% I think). Pretty much everyone against it cited religion as their reason and called it wrong because of that so I wouldn't say it has to do with exposure of sex stuff. It's hard to find someone against gay rights in the US that doesn't cite religion as their main reason for being against marriage. Oh, some will come up with some bullshit but once you expose their bullshit they'll fall back on religion - "THE BIBLE SAYS IT IS WRONG SO IT IS!" It's absolutely absurd but it's reality.

man, i feel kind of bad for you guys. i go to a fairly progressive university and like a third of the people here are openly LGBT and i've had two-three of my close IRL friends come out as well - nobody really seems to bat an eyelid at it over here anymore, it's just a given thing. i guess it's like jarby said.

as far as the parades go, that's fair enough, though it strikes me as decidedly odd that a certain flavour of gay culture has made it to the mainstream when i wager most homosexual individuals are pretty normal people. it seems to perpetuate the "us vs them" polarisation on both sides of the coin, in my eyes. at least what i know from talking to some of my peers who aren't wholly supportive of the gay culture thing (australia has a big thing with it in certain districts such as king's cross which is also a major nightclub hub)

also, when "gay" is used as a slur, is it really still describing homosexuals? originally it was aligned to mean "happy" or "carefree", then came to be used to describe homosexuals, and has since been appropriated as a general word to describe something in a negative fashion. does that intrinsically mean that it is immediately homophobic? no, not really. that's a big steaming bowl of nominal fallacy.

i don't know, i think it's one of those things where it's emotional over anything explicitly logical. if you identify as something and then that label is also used to appraise something in a negative or unfavourable context, it is only natural to draw the connotations from that label on to your own identity. like how being called "white" is sometimes a term to use to describe bigotry or ignorance amongst some sociocultural groups

I've heard that the L/G's even discriminate themselves from the B/T's. Is that true?

Kanye West wrote:

I've heard that the L/G's even discriminate themselves from the B/T's. Is that true?

There's a lot of misconceptions and outright hatred within the LGBT groups, yes. For example, some gay people believe that all bisexuals are just doing it for attention, are hypersexual or closet gays. I don't think there's any special sort of discrimination within LGBT that you wouldn't hear from a straight person at some point though. From most to least best represented, it's something like GLBT.

Ephemeral wrote:

also, when "gay" is used as a slur, is it really still describing homosexuals? originally it was aligned to mean "happy" or "carefree", then came to be used to describe homosexuals, and has since been appropriated as a general word to describe something in a negative fashion. does that intrinsically mean that it is immediately homophobic? no, not really. that's a big steaming bowl of nominal fallacy.

The thing is, the term gay has primarily been appropriated by straight people and for a negative thing no less. Among it simply being a generic term for bad, you would be blind not to see it being used to negatively describe things associated with homosexual culture and stereotypes. The guy with the lisp is "so gay", those skinny jeans are "so gay", that guy wearing makeup is "so gay". A lot of it is simply culturally feminine things, so we can have a dose of misogyny with our homophobia.

The point is that it still has significant negative connotations to gay people. Hell, why do you think having a word describing their sexuality being appropriated by straight people to mean bad would be negative? They have no right to defend it.

Ephemeral wrote:

also, when "gay" is used as a slur, is it really still describing homosexuals? originally it was aligned to mean "happy" or "carefree", then came to be used to describe homosexuals, and has since been appropriated as a general word to describe something in a negative fashion. does that intrinsically mean that it is immediately homophobic? no, not really. that's a big steaming bowl of nominal fallacy.

i don't know, i think it's one of those things where it's emotional over anything explicitly logical. if you identify as something and then that label is also used to appraise something in a negative or unfavourable context, it is only natural to draw the connotations from that label on to your own identity. like how being called "white" is sometimes a term to use to describe bigotry or ignorance amongst some sociocultural groups

In a way it still is. The reason people began to use the word in a negative fashion was because of negative attitudes toward homosexuals. Even though people use the word as a general descriptor for negativity, because of its origins the use of the word "gay" in this way perpetuates the idea the homosexuality is inherently negative.

so far this topic has been mostly about LGBT in general, but im more interested in people's personal storys. are you one? do you know one?
at the same time im going to be a hypocrite and not go into any details about myself because i think this is too public and i dont like to talk about myself in public.

Hey, I'm Rui, from Turkey and I'm an openly gay man. It's good that someone came up with a thread like this.

silmarilen wrote:

so far this topic has been mostly about LGBT in general, but im more interested in people's personal storys. are you one? do you know one?
at the same time im going to be a hypocrite and not go into any details about myself because i think this is too public and i dont like to talk about myself in public.

believe me, every LGBT has had an individual experience at least for once in their lives about how hard it is to be discriminated, shunned or how tough life can get at some points, but the thing is it's not our necessity to know what they've been through, unless they want you to know, but I'm pretty sure we can talk about what bothers homosexual people in osu! and how can we fix it to make it friendlier for them, here's an example for that;


Please if you're going to use the word "gay" use it in the right place, at the right time with the correct meaning of it.

Ephemeral wrote:

many people have what I call a benign-neutral view of LGBT issues in that they truthfully do not affect them in the slightest, and honestly do not really care what other people do in the bedroom or who they take as partners.

This is a very eloquent way of expressing my own feelings on the subject.

As far as a "safe haven thread" goes, I think it's a bad idea, since it comes with the implication that, outside of this thread, LGBT are not safe and are subject to persecution, and on the whole, that's not true. You'll get the odd backwater homophobic bigot just like you will your racists and anti-equality blowhards, but they're the exception you get with any public space. The culture here doesn't foster those kinds of attitudes.

I'm not entirely sure what the purpose of this thread is and I'm kind of scared of what it can easily become. I think I'll join silmarilen on this one.

woah (｀・ω・´)”

....this reminds me of what i had ever wondering back then. aaaaaaa so hesitate to ask so i guess i need to think about really asking it later.

awp wrote:

Ephemeral wrote:

many people have what I call a benign-neutral view of LGBT issues in that they truthfully do not affect them in the slightest, and honestly do not really care what other people do in the bedroom or who they take as partners.

This is a very eloquent way of expressing my own feelings on the subject.

As far as a "safe haven thread" goes, I think it's a bad idea, since it comes with the implication that, outside of this thread, LGBT are not safe and are subject to persecution, and on the whole, that's not true. You'll get the odd backwater homophobic bigot just like you will your racists and anti-equality blowhards, but they're the exception you get with any public space. The culture here doesn't foster those kinds of attitudes.

Hi! I just wanted to say that I never intended for this to be a "safe haven" and I think the osu! community is wonderful toward the LGBT community. Maybe I should get rid of the word "safe" in my thread description, but I just meant for this to be a place where people could be comfortable in being really open about lots of different things. I didn't want this to be an LGBT secret clubhouse or anything like that.

awp wrote:

Ephemeral wrote:

many people have what I call a benign-neutral view of LGBT issues in that they truthfully do not affect them in the slightest, and honestly do not really care what other people do in the bedroom or who they take as partners.

This is a very eloquent way of expressing my own feelings on the subject.

As far as a "safe haven thread" goes, I think it's a bad idea, since it comes with the implication that, outside of this thread, LGBT are not safe and are subject to persecution, and on the whole, that's not true. You'll get the odd backwater homophobic bigot just like you will your racists and anti-equality blowhards, but they're the exception you get with any public space. The culture here doesn't foster those kinds of attitudes.

It's really not like some sort of secret clubhouse, but it's, as Moway said, more like a place for someone to discuss LGBT-related issues. I prefer the term "safe haven" because that's what it feels like if someone needs to get it off of their chest to similarly-minded individuals.

To be honest, you can only realize homophobic behavior for real if you are involved and affected.
Your discussion about the word "gay" and it's original meaning might apply to the English language but not to the German for example. Whereas "schwul" is also used as negative attribution like "gay" in English, it never had a different meaning but "homosexual male".
Clearly to me, using the word gay as insult or negative attribute is homophobic, because an equivalent happens on all languages, regardless if the word for gay had another meaning in the past or not. Being gay is still something people consider as weird - especially because it's not (always) obviously noticeable. So using the word gay as insult clearly refers to the assumption that the attributes object is not worth being considered as normal but as weird and therefore lame , like gays.
Personally I don't care if people call stuff "gay", but not calling it homophobic is wrong on so many levels.
Anyways I dislike the general attitude of the lgbt community to expose themselves as "suppressed minority". Yet I understand why they do it. Being lgbt isn't an obvious attribute, like being black or having blonde hair, so you quickly consider yourself as a lonely outstander since you never can see the homosexuality in someone without asking explicitly for it.

Also saying that "stuff like discrimination isn't that common in a modern society anymore" is quite naive because this isn't the case. You can be lucky if you never had problems, but I can not imagine that there is any lgbt that did not suffer from stuff like that. Lgbt people usually get entirely reduced to the fact that they are lgbt. In my case, many people are not seeing the person I am, but only the gay guy in many cases. Also many of my actions tend to be concluded by others to my homosexuality. It is bothering that everything you do will be reasoned with you being gay.
People define themselves or get defined quite often through a sole attribute.
I am really not that kind of person that would put himself into the corner of the victim, discrimination happens everywhere and will always happen. You can not avoid stereotypes, you simply have them.

The only thing that I wish for in future that homosexuality starts to be considered as normal and therefore not even worth mentioning or discussing. So it should be a normal attribute like body size, hair color and religion.
But every time I tell someone that I am gay, the first reaction is "Oh. Really? Well, I have nothing against gays but I couldn't do that." I can't remember that, when telling people that I have blonde hair, they reacted with "Oh. Well, I have nothing against blonde people." - they simply don't give a fuck.
Also it disgusts me how lesbians are widely accepted (e.g. watching these nasty late night porn ads on TV, where two girls are clearly do things with each other to turn on the males) But when two naked man rub their body on each other, it suddenly is a huge deal and people run away and vomit in every existing corner.
This is more discriminating for me than anything else right now.

Also it disturbs me that whenever a gay couple appears in a tv series, it's something special and worth exposing. Why? Shouldn't it be normal? What even discussing it then?

So much about my thoughts. I could tell you the story of my life, but that would also include to tell how I got my previous convictions. So not worth mentioning.

Loctav wrote:

...it disgusts me how lesbians are widely accepted (e.g. watching these nasty late night porn ads on TV, where two girls are clearly do things with each other to turn on the males) But when two naked man rub their body on each other, it suddenly is a huge deal and people run away and vomit in every existing corner.
This is more discriminating for me than anything else right now...

I don't really think that lesbians are widely accepted, but rather that they are highly sexualized and objectified, at least from what I have seen, heard, and have been told about stuff that happens where I live (and this kinda extends to all women, at least in North America). And let's not forget that lesbian porn--which does not always feature a genuine lesbian--doesn't cater much to the lesbian audience but more to straight men.


When it comes to a genuine relationship between two women, they can face just the same amount of problems as gay men and perhaps even more.

Women as a whole get insanely sexualized and objectified. The society is predominantly male even though there are more women than men, that's history. But that's an entirely different matter.

Shiro wrote:

there are more women than men

Non!

As for sexualising and objectifying women, well, that's just what straight men like to see. Media is driven by profit, so of course you'll see companies pandering to the largest audience however they can. Sexualisation of women as a whole is just a consequence of that, really.



This is all just guesswork, though- I'd like to see a pro's view on it all

Loctav wrote:

To be honest, you can only realize homophobic behavior for real if you are involved and affected.

Amen.

Loctav wrote:

Your discussion about the word "gay" and it's original meaning might apply to the English language but not to the German for example. Whereas "schwul" is also used as negative attribution like "gay" in English, it never had a different meaning but "homosexual male".
Clearly to me, using the word gay as insult or negative attribute is homophobic, because an equivalent happens on all languages, regardless if the word for gay had another meaning in the past or not. Being gay is still something people consider as weird - especially because it's not (always) obviously noticeable. So using the word gay as insult clearly refers to the assumption that the attributes object is not worth being considered as normal but as weird and therefore lame , like gays.
Personally I don't care if people call stuff "gay", but not calling it homophobic is wrong on so many levels.

This is how I feel about the word in English due to its changed connotation over time, but this is much more awful to me. If I spoke German I would definitely feel the same.

Loctav wrote:

Anyways I dislike the general attitude of the lgbt community to expose themselves as "suppressed minority". Yet I understand why they do it. Being lgbt isn't an obvious attribute, like being black or having blonde hair, so you quickly consider yourself as a lonely outstander since you never can see the homosexuality in someone without asking explicitly for it.

Also saying that "stuff like discrimination isn't that common in a modern society anymore" is quite naive because this isn't the case. You can be lucky if you never had problems, but I can not imagine that there is any lgbt that did not suffer from stuff like that. Lgbt people usually get entirely reduced to the fact that they are lgbt. In my case, many people are not seeing the person I am, but only the gay guy in many cases. Also many of my actions tend to be concluded by others to my homosexuality. It is bothering that everything you do will be reasoned with you being gay.
People define themselves or get defined quite often through a sole attribute.
I am really not that kind of person that would put himself into the corner of the victim, discrimination happens everywhere and will always happen. You can not avoid stereotypes, you simply have them.

Fighting for a change because LGBT folks are still a suppressed minority who has (and often still is) victimized, I don't have a serious problem with that. Fighting for change can help aid in beginning the gradual change of stereotypes. Will the stereotypes still be there? Yes. Do you have to accept that some people will hate you and judge you based off of preconceived notions? Yes. Do you have to stand for it? No, even if the change won't happen right away. Since the change will benefit more than just yourself.

Loctav wrote:

The only thing that I wish for in future that homosexuality starts to be considered as normal and therefore not even worth mentioning or discussing. So it should be a normal attribute like body size, hair color and religion.
But every time I tell someone that I am gay, the first reaction is "Oh. Really? Well, I have nothing against gays but I couldn't do that." I can't remember that, when telling people that I have blonde hair, they reacted with "Oh. Well, I have nothing against blonde people." - they simply don't give a fuck.
Also it disgusts me how lesbians are widely accepted (e.g. watching these nasty late night porn ads on TV, where two girls are clearly do things with each other to turn on the males) But when two naked man rub their body on each other, it suddenly is a huge deal and people run away and vomit in every existing corner.
This is more discriminating for me than anything else right now.

Also it disturbs me that whenever a gay couple appears in a tv series, it's something special and worth exposing. Why? Shouldn't it be normal? What even discussing it then?

It's shocking when given the context of certain societal standards and treating it as shocking that a normal couple can arise between people of the same gender. Treating it as a shocking reveal is how society still treats it, but if the rest of the programme ends up framing it as healthy then it could help shape viewers' thoughts, that it is not as big of a deal as they thought. As far as lesbians getting more respect: as previously stated, it's only "porn lesbians" that do; fake lesbianism featuring girls seen as attractive by straight males designed for straight male libido. It's all marketing. Sad that it works, but it works. Doesn't mean lesbians are treated better, it actually creates a disturbing dynamic where some guys will think that lesbians only exist for their own pleasure ("OH MAN TWO GIRLS KISSING SO HOT").

Shiro wrote:

Women as a whole get insanely sexualized and objectified. The society is predominantly male even though there are more women than men, that's history. But that's an entirely different matter.

As of 2012, the recorded world population's gender ratio was 101 men for every 100 women.

Third-world society panders to straight males because they are the majority, and more often than not the most vocal majority. Therefore it is the most profitable to pander to them in most cases.

I'm always a little flabbergasted by how defensive people are of the use of the word "gay" as an insult. People really don't want to let that one go for some reason or another. It doesn't take a whole lot of thinking to realize it's still a reflection of the homophobic undertones of society, but I can say it's not a fight that will be won any time soon.

There's this notion that, if we say homophobia (or racism or prejudice of all sorts) is a backwater thing of the past, it will somehow be true. It's the same sort of sweeping under the rug that has been happening regarding "postracialism" since the 1980's. If we saturate the media and society's narrative with successful and overwhelmingly accepted gay/black/etc people, society will begin to overlook the subconscious prejudice that lives on. It's an action that better soothes the souls of the majority but does nothing for those who are marginalized.