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[Guide] low latency & stable settings (Works with all PC!!)

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Dexus
982 posts
Joined July 2009
Topic Starter
Dexus

Jordan wrote:

Tried this and I actually lost a lot of responsiveness lol. Is it because I'm playing with a mouse?
Are you certain you set 0 pre-rendered frames? It probably feels alienated to you. It felt like my cursor was moving incorrectly when I first did this, but then I realized I was jumping to notes a lot faster and more accurately.

YayMii wrote:

My x264 preset won't change the fact that DirectX gives me better framerates at better quality settings. And I highly doubt that a $50 AMD GPU would outperform the $180 Nvidia GPU that I bought a few months ago. When I said your computer is more powerful than mine, I was referring to your i5 (I have a Core 2 Quad).

EDIT: Here's an example of the quality I can get with DirectX, which is the same if not slightly better quality than the video you posted. http://www.twitch.tv/yaymii/b/426814302
Ahh that's your issue (the processor), but x264 is cpu related not gpu related (It even says CPU when you look at it). It still works the way I've said, lower speeds causes more workload (the stream is processed more to be better quality). It takes i7 tier processors to be on stuff like fast and slower. I'm on veryfast because I overclocked my processor to 4.3 GHz.Although I'm curious, what are your broadcast settings? It seems pretty good. [Talking about advanced section, you gave the video part and the encoding in a previous post]
TakuMii
1,874 posts
Joined October 2009
TakuMii

Dexus wrote:

Ahh that's your issue (the processor), but x264 is cpu related not gpu related (It even says CPU when you look at it). It still works the way I've said, lower speeds causes more workload (the stream is processed more to be better quality). It takes i7 tier processors to be on stuff like fast and slower. I'm on veryfast because I overclocked my processor to 4.3 GHz.Although I'm curious, what are your broadcast settings? It seems pretty good. [Talking about advanced section, you gave the video part and the encoding in a previous post]
I actually changed my settings around a bit since I last posted, trying to get a better quality image than my previous settings, and that video in the link was a result of the changes. I'm at 1280x720 (downscaled 1.25 to 1024x576 using the Lanczos filter) @ 45fps with 2150 kb/s CBR. Here's my Advanced tab though, since I made a few changes there too: http://puu.sh/3wYbK.png
I think it was your Scene Buffering Time that was causing the audio crackling, the default 400 was fine for me so I left it at that.
Espionage724
876 posts
Joined August 2011
Espionage724
If I understand right, the flip queue size value can react differently depending on different hardware factors. For example, with no pre-rendered frames, some people might experience more stuttering, along with lower input latency. I believe 3 is default, but this can differ between drivers/hardware.

I personally keep it at driver default, and just keep my FPS cap in-game to 120 and use DirectX (neither RadeonPro's OSD nor Evolve were able to hook into osu! in OGL mode for me). I also have a global FPS limit set in RadeonPro at the max 120. Random note, but apparently RadeonPro's FPS capping tech causes less frametime latency in-comparison to MSI Afterburner's (Rivatuner).

For broadcasting, screenshotting, and video recording, I use Evolve. My osu! resolution is at 1024x768 (for full tablet area), and I have no stuttering or anything with these settings:




(Bitrate, FPS, and Resolution are all low due to me having low-speed DSL; can easily handle 60 FPS @ 1280x720 on 3500 kbps bitrate)

My settings aren't going to work for everyone of course though; but the settings are available for people to tweak for their hardware :)
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Kert

Dexus wrote:

Dxtory for recording right? (I experimented with dxtory as a frame limiter for better performance)
osu! crashes right away when you try to start it with ATT and dxtory opened at the same time (unless you put delay hook)
I mainly use dxtory as a frame limiter yes
Mathsma
473 posts
Joined March 2013
Mathsma
Thanks for this, playing feels much sharper now. I have a couple of questions. I set my fps limit to 300 but when I check my fps ingame it caps at 500 instead, is this normal? Also, would changing the fps limit to 480 increase response time?
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire
I find that flip-queue size 1 is best for my computer. 0 causes stutters. Not really sure why.

OpenGL is definitely more responsive, but for some computers it just does not work right.

Good guide. Will try some of these when I get home; although my setup is responsive enough atm, any bonus is welcome. :D
Dexus
982 posts
Joined July 2009
Topic Starter
Dexus

Mathsma wrote:

Thanks for this, playing feels much sharper now. I have a couple of questions. I set my fps limit to 300 but when I check my fps ingame it caps at 500 instead, is this normal? Also, would changing the fps limit to 480 increase response time?
480 fps is 1ms delay roughly, so having 500 fps render is fine. no need to increase to 480 fps because the limiter is weird like that.

RaneFire wrote:

I find that flip-queue size 1 is best for my computer. 0 causes stutters. Not really sure why.

OpenGL is definitely more responsive, but for some computers it just does not work right.

Good guide. Will try some of these when I get home; although my setup is responsive enough atm, any bonus is welcome. :D
Yeah 0 can cause stuttering on some computers, but the latency is reduced by a lot.
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire
Tried some of this stuff and it does indeed work, I may be settling for openGL from now on, though windowed mode is fine for me since, in fullscreen, my desktop keeps disappearing regardless of method of minimizing...

One thing that I find interesting is that the openGL "60fps (vsync)" option lets the FPS run at your custom frame limit. This is odd, and logic says it's not vsync'ing. My refresh rate is 75hz, and my frames go anywhere from 300-500. This isn't vsync so... is this just a placebo or what?
I don't notice any difference in responsiveness either.

Anyway at least this topic has answered my other question. I was always wondering how I could hit notes that were ahead of my cursor, and actually I knew or rather saw after it happened, that my cursor was just a few pixels behind actually being on the note when I hit the button, yet it didn't miss. Well, it has been answered... Seeing my osu cursor now moving ahead of my windows cursor when I move it along the bottom of the screen. (And I use windows 7 in basic theme - all transparencies disabled). Is windows intentially trying to make sure it's cursor is always first when using DirectX, causing delay, or is it hooking onto the windows cursor from osu! in this mode?

Or am I being fooled and openGL is causing windows to delay now? Guess I'll never know. Either way, it's more responsive.
Dexus
982 posts
Joined July 2009
Topic Starter
Dexus
While osu! Is running unplug all mouse-like input devices and plug them back in, the windows cursor will appear over the game and you can test various settings with this. I've even started to design windows cursors for osu! using this method.
Dexus
982 posts
Joined July 2009
Topic Starter
Dexus
Updated OP with completely rewritten guide. I will work on AMD settings once I get around to figuring out how to get a hardware limit that is higher than 120 fps.

Edit:
This helps a lot gameplay-wise, but I'm thinking this should be in Tech support?
Mathsma
473 posts
Joined March 2013
Mathsma
Thanks for taking the time to write this guide, it's actually been very useful.
Dexus
982 posts
Joined July 2009
Topic Starter
Dexus
Another update, managed to get it to work with AMD by using MSI afterburner. This also allowed for 480 FPS limit. I can't hook into it with OpenGL on Nvidia, but I believe AMD can.

I left both up since they both work well. I recommend using msi Afterburner as it works better and is more simple to handle.
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire
Seeing this thread again, I decided to test out flip-queue size 0 (hadn't tried it again in a while), looks like my issue with stuttering approach circles has been fixed one way or another.

Thanks for the thread. Mind elaborating in the OP on why a constant FPS is better than unlimited or is this purely a "test both and see which is better" scenario? ...Well, after re-reading the thread, seems that's the conclusion.
Dexus
982 posts
Joined July 2009
Topic Starter
Dexus
Having consistent input is better than it being inconsistent. The only reason you use unlimited fps is to get the low latency. The drawback to doing this is when you get to active maps or moments in the game it can cause the cursor to drag and fall behind (it takes so long to render everything on the screen as much as it can). I enjoy stable gameplay while streaming as well since this is the main motive I was set out to finding optimal settings. You can also enable all the settings, watch the video, and have storyboards going doing this. Granted that your graphics card is fast enough to output a stable 480 fps. If not you could always just limit to 240fps.

Also through further research I was sifting through the config files on RadeonPro and flip-queue size 0 is actually 1 not 0. It even says it in the config. There is no 0 pre-render / look at ahead. It's just the way buffers work.

Also I monitored this using afterburner, it shows the milliseconds it takes. 480fps is plenty of frames to get you smooth gameplay but not too many that it'll over-render and cause misinputs.
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire

Dexus wrote:

Also through further research I was sifting through the config files on RadeonPro and flip-queue size 0 is actually 1 not 0. It even says it in the config. There is no 0 pre-render / look at ahead. It's just the way buffers work.
So is "1" actually 2 then or something? I'm not too sure why there would be a 0 option if 0/1 were the same.

I checked out RadeonPro and it doesn't seem to let me use a Dynamic Frame Limit of more than 120fps. Well :roll: it's good for other things I suppose.

So then I tested Afterburner, limited to 450fps. Seems to run fine without any stutters. Gonna play with this for a while. Thanks... edit: wow, just got my lowest unstable rate ever. I suppose it really does help with reading.

I also played around with my custom frame limit in osu! as well and I did notice that the GPU speedstepping means that if I select say 300 or 350 fps, it will render at that, but the moment I put it at 375, it goes up to 500/600, sometimes 800, and seems to be fairly stable with very little stutter. Better than unlimited 2500 fps which is just ridiculous and drops by the 1000's when there's lots on the screen. I suppose finding that "sweet spot" would be an alternative if other methods didn't work.
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Kert
Tried MSI Afterburner instead of Dxtory for framelimiting - works alright. Tested only on opengl though
For some reason directx in osu! forces default monitor refreshrate in fullscreen, instead of one I put in the config.
There's no such problem in opengl and that's why I use it
Dexus
982 posts
Joined July 2009
Topic Starter
Dexus
@RaneFire:
In the config file it shows that it's a 1 and not 0 as I said. You can also modify the RP config file to go above 120 but it caps at 240 for some reason and can not be brought past it. 480 fps is all you'll need, trust me. Going up to 800 fps gives a bare 0.2ms difference. Not worth it in my eyes.

@Kert:
You run with AMD? I was only able to test for a little bit with AMD and I don't recall getting that issue. Are you sure you didn't have force vsync on or something? Try applying the changes and restarting your computer. With nvidia I can not hook into opengl with anything, not even OBS game capture can hook into it.
Kert
2,079 posts
Joined June 2009
Kert
Yes, AMD.
It's weird but 60fps vsync in opengl seems to be influenced by that 480fps limit I've set in MSI Afterburner. If I try Unlimited opengl - the game goes over 1000fps
Dexus
982 posts
Joined July 2009
Topic Starter
Dexus
AMD can unlock the vsync if you change it in the config. As for unlimited, some update recently changed it and nothing can hook into it. I'm thinking of switching back to AMD just to try this out to see how it feels. I'm content with my memory bandwidth with my Nvidia gpu since I don't need a high clock speed.

Just don't use the low latency vsync as it taxes the cpu with a higher framerate than your refresh rate.

Also tested more computers and got my hands on one with intel graphics and learned that even that is compatible with MSi Afterburner.
Pokefreaker
9 posts
Joined May 2013
Pokefreaker
Tried the Msi AfterBurner but having some slight problem.

I cant save the file after changing FrameRate Limit = 480. [Notepad]
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire

Pokefreaker wrote:

Tried the Msi AfterBurner but having some slight problem.

I cant save the file after changing FrameRate Limit = 480. [Notepad]
In your start menu, right click on the notepad application, run as administrator.

Or just disable your UAC in account control settings.......................
Winshley
osu! Alumni
2,384 posts
Joined May 2011
Winshley

RaneFire wrote:

Or just disable your UAC in account control settings.......................
Mind that peppy himself never recommends this anyway.
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire
Necro'ing because I need an opinion or preferably a fact...

I don't know how osu! does it's thing, but apparently some DirectX games, namely of version 10 or 11, are unaffected by any changes to Flip Queue Size made in RadeonPro. And AMD has also been doing some things apparently regarding other applications being able to change this value, although I can't find anything conclusive.

I thought I would test some different settings, and as it turns out, it does not matter what Flip Queue Size I choose, it seems to have no effect on input lag in osu! (Tested by seeing how far my windows cursor is... behind my osu cursor <- on all values)

So what is interesting is that I am not getting any input lag at all apparently, so has AMD optimised something or am I actually playing on 3 or 1 or what because I can't tell :x - I tested at 120fps and 450fps (75hz) and both yielded the same results. I'm sure if there was any, it wouldn't matter much at 450fps.

Also apparently I've been playing on the driver default setting ever since my post in this thread, because apparently "0" in RadeonPro sets it to the driver default (3) again... lol.
Sorun
234 posts
Joined October 2010
Sorun
It seems MSI moved files around a bit and renamed them. Can't find which file has the frame limiter.
Espionage724
876 posts
Joined August 2011
Espionage724

Sorun wrote:

It seems MSI moved files around a bit and renamed them. Can't find which file has the frame limiter.
Last I checked, it should be on the main RTSS window or something (it used to be under settings). I don't have it installed to verify though.
Sorun
234 posts
Joined October 2010
Sorun

Espionage724 wrote:

Sorun wrote:

It seems MSI moved files around a bit and renamed them. Can't find which file has the frame limiter.
Last I checked, it should be on the main RTSS window or something (it used to be under settings). I don't have it installed to verify though.
Figured it out. Seems MSI afterburner no longer handles the FPS cap its in the RivaTuner program folder.

C:\Program Files (x86)\RivaTuner Statistics Server\Profiles


Wow... I'm either experiencing placebo or this actually makes a significant difference. Mind you I didn't think this would change much yet every thing feels buttery smooth and responsive. It's kind of too responsive. Think I might go back to 120.
Dexus
982 posts
Joined July 2009
Topic Starter
Dexus

RaneFire wrote:

Necro'ing because I need an opinion or preferably a fact...

I don't know how osu! does it's thing, but apparently some DirectX games, namely of version 10 or 11, are unaffected by any changes to Flip Queue Size made in RadeonPro. And AMD has also been doing some things apparently regarding other applications being able to change this value, although I can't find anything conclusive.

I thought I would test some different settings, and as it turns out, it does not matter what Flip Queue Size I choose, it seems to have no effect on input lag in osu! (Tested by seeing how far my windows cursor is... behind my osu cursor <- on all values)

So what is interesting is that I am not getting any input lag at all apparently, so has AMD optimised something or am I actually playing on 3 or 1 or what because I can't tell :x - I tested at 120fps and 450fps (75hz) and both yielded the same results. I'm sure if there was any, it wouldn't matter much at 450fps.

Also apparently I've been playing on the driver default setting ever since my post in this thread, because apparently "0" in RadeonPro sets it to the driver default (3) again... lol.
Version 10 / 11 as in DirectX 10 and 11? I wish osu! rendered through them (namely D3D11, that has benchmarked to be better than OpenGL hands down). We would get hardware acceleration support on windows 8 and that mouse problem on 8.1 would go away. It would be shaders for everything and using 3d with an orthogonal camera instead of 2d sprites, but doing this it renders much faster and efficiently. Only drawback is it gets slightly soft looking but that's due to the AA in the drivers. Currently osu! is rendering with DirectX 9 and it has become an old method. Only the newer versions of directx support the hardware acceleration.

Stick with driver defaults for everything when dealing with this game. Only thing I would not recommend is using any FPS limit lower than 500. Most of the latency you feel in your input is coming from your monitor or random background applications eating your computer. You really don't need MSI Afterburner anymore since you can write either 400 or 500 in the osu! config and it limits to 500 and 1000 fps respectively. The less stuff you run osu! through and side by side, the better.

Sorun wrote:

Wow... I'm either experiencing placebo or this actually makes a significant difference. Mind you I didn't think this would change much yet every thing feels buttery smooth and responsive. It's kind of too responsive. Think I might go back to 120.
You're getting less microstutters and the input is consistent. this is good because then you can adjust to it and play comfortably. If the fps is dropping thousands of frames and being very inconsistent it's not a very enjoyable experience. I've also learned that how smooth the movements of the sprites are in directx is determined by how many frames per second you have it set to. With higher frames you can see everything clearly and faster so it's a no brainer to do it. With lower fps there's less repeated frames on the monitor so it can tend to look choppy.
Espionage724
876 posts
Joined August 2011
Espionage724

Dexus wrote:

Version 10 / 11 as in DirectX 10 and 11? I wish osu! rendered through them (namely D3D11, that has benchmarked to be better than OpenGL hands down). We would get hardware acceleration support on windows 8 and that mouse problem on 8.1 would go away.
When has D3D11 proved better than OpenGL? Also, the hardware is still accelerating older DirectX levels (DX9 and DX10 games aren't being ran in software on your CPU...). The mouse problem on 8.1 is due to a power-saving thing Microsoft introduced (carelessly), and isn't render-dependent (it happens on WoW, Black Ops 2, and Metro 2033 on DX11; hence the fix from Microsoft).

Dexus wrote:

Currently osu! is rendering with DirectX 9 and it has become an old method. Only the newer versions of directx support the hardware acceleration.
I'd be interested to see the whitepaper from Microsoft stating this, even though I know for a fact my DX9 games are hardware-accelerated (my games wouldn't play at more than 5 FPS if this were the case; i've used both 8 and 8.1). The only real benefit of a newer DirectX API for osu! may be to lessen the small CPU-overhead that DX9 gives, and if that's the only objective, you'd be better off using OpenGL. This is a game where you click circles, not see thousands of particle effects and fully-tessellated scenes with heavy SSAO and 4xSSAA :p Not to mention there probably isn't a large amount of osu! players who even have DX11-compliant GPUs.

Dexus wrote:

...If the fps is dropping thousands of frames and being very inconsistent it's not a very enjoyable experience
Define dropped frames? I play Unlimited (gameplay), and don't experience anything of the like of what I understand to be dropped frames.
ballplay
86 posts
Joined August 2013
ballplay

Sorun wrote:

It seems MSI moved files around a bit and renamed them. Can't find which file has the frame limiter.
Can you tell me what you did in the rivatuner application? i think i fucked up and made mine less responsive and its messing up my jumps
AmaiHachimitsu
1,639 posts
Joined May 2011
AmaiHachimitsu
I'm using Intel Integrated Graphics - Intel GMA X4500 HD

Under normal conditions my peak during gameplay is about 320 and it happens on spinners usually.

Am I eligible to make use of Afterburner with some efficiency? Or my pc sucks too much?

I tried a bit already but can't see any difference, fps is still low.
Dexus
982 posts
Joined July 2009
Topic Starter
Dexus
When I use unlimited my FPS can be 6000 on some maps while 1000 on others

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012 ... phics.aspx

Also related in a way
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 01(v=vs.85).aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 42(v=vs.85).aspx
Espionage724
876 posts
Joined August 2011
Espionage724

Dexus wrote:

When I use unlimited my FPS can be 6000 on some maps while 1000 on others

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2012 ... phics.aspx

Also related in a way
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 01(v=vs.85).aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library ... 42(v=vs.85).aspx
Hmm, I only skimmed through them, but where on any of those pages does it say older DX levels aren't hardware-accelerated on 8/8.1 and that the power-saving mouse feature would be fixed with DX11?

From what I understand of the mouse thing, programs that use Raw Input shouldn't be affected, but programs that use DirectInput can be affected. The type of input used does not collateral to the graphics API in-use though at all.

As for the frame rate thing, i'll assume the maps that have lower framerates have either more beats, or other storyboard stuff going on. Generally speaking though, you shouldn't be noticing a difference between such framerates in real-time. If your computer dips below around 120 frames though while running Unlimited frames, but doesn't dip if you're capped to some other value like 500 or 1000, you likely have a thermal issue causing GPU clocks to shift or something, in which case, then a frame rate limit would help (but really that's more like avoiding the problem, you should probably fix the thermal issue).
Sang
3 posts
Joined September 2013
Sang
My accuracy and aiming has improved tremendously. Thank you based Dexus. :')
Kinzie
4 posts
Joined July 2014
Kinzie
I do. 8-)
Last edited by Kinzie , edited 2 times in total.
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm

Kinzie wrote:

Hello, this was actually a useful guide thanks.
I have 60hz monitor and the easiest way to get rid of tearing for me was to go at osu! folder, open "osu!.User" file with notepad and set setting "CustomFrameLimit" on 480.
So it was like this "CustomFrameLimit = 480"
It has that 2ms delay as it is said but its not even noticable.
:D
Do you realize this thread is from over a year ago?!?
otoed1
639 posts
Joined May 2014
otoed1
I<3Necros.
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm

otoed1 wrote:

I<3Necros.
Dont forget
post count+1
God tier Mage
1 post
Joined February 2015
God tier Mage

Dexus wrote:

Everything including Intel graphics works with this in DirectX render mode.

If you're playing windowed
go to the properties of your osu! shortcut and change the compatibility settings to this

Using MSi Afterburner
Puush wasn't responding so I could not make screenshots, I will make them later when it's responding

1) Download and install msi Afterburner

http://event.msi.com/vga/afterburner/download.htm

2) navigate to "C:\Program Files (x86)\MSI Afterburner\Bundle\OSDServer\Profiles" and open the "Global" file in notepad

3) Find and replace the section as shown below; then save and close the file
[Framerate]
Limit=480
4) Open msi afterburner window and click settings down below

3) First check start with windows and start minimized then Click the Monitoring tab

4) Scroll down the graph listing and check the two boxes that say "Framerate" then click OK

5) Open the MSI On-screen display server that now appeared in your tray and turn On start with windows and Off the on-screen display

5) Launch your game and switch to unlimited (during gameplay) then enjoy

If you want to run with OpenGL instead of DirectX only AMD can by changing the CustomFrameLimit to 480 fps and then using 60 fps (vsync). Yes that option seems to go to higher frame rates than vsync in OpenGL with AMD. MSi Afterburner can't hook into any other frame limit option but this as well.

Do not use triple buffer as it induces latency

60 fps has roughly 16ms delay
120 fps has roughly 8ms delay
255 fps has roughly 4ms delay
480 fps has roughly 2ms delay, very stable and playable
unlimited gets barely 1ms delay, but is really unstable and can exert your GPU inducing a sort of dragging effect in active moments
My ms is weird as hell i get 300-450 with unlimited but 4ms always theres also lag behind my mouse movements.
Any ideas?
btw using raw input
ZenithPhantasm
ZenithPhantasm
Stop using Razer mice and buy a Logitech one
Xzertz
3 posts
Joined April 2016
Xzertz
How about 3470 fps? ;)
EscudoPikes
EscudoPikes
Am i a complete spoiled brat if i say 1ms is unplayable? Like I'm used to the stable 0.56 and 1 ms is just unplayable. (usual fps is 3745) But well is there a way to get 0.56 when on a laptop because I'm so used to it being so low but when i switch to my laptop i get 1.2 ms so It gets really hard =(
Deva
2,343 posts
Joined December 2014
Deva

EscudoPikes wrote:

Am i a complete spoiled brat
Yes.
Blackjack Sass
1 post
Joined November 2016
Blackjack Sass
The link to get MSI Afterburner no longer exists. Is there another way I can get it? Or an alternative?
kai99
1,123 posts
Joined July 2013
kai99

Blackjack Sass wrote:

The link to get MSI Afterburner no longer exists. Is there another way I can get it? Or an alternative?
ofc because the original post is 3 years old..??? idk about an alternative
lettulate136
1 post
Joined November 2016
lettulate136
I get 0.6, but with discord running, I get 1.2 :thinking:
E m i
E m i

8-)
Barusamikosu
1,100 posts
Joined July 2014
Barusamikosu

Momiji wrote:


8-)
Strong Momi
Sh0taKriS
1 post
Joined October 2019
Sh0taKriS
This actually worked and helped me fr thanks
anaxii
15,000 posts
Joined December 2022
anaxii
unlimited>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
DM FOR MUTUAL
606 posts
Joined March 2021
DM FOR MUTUAL

Anaxii wrote:

unlimited>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
a
anaxii
15,000 posts
Joined December 2022
anaxii

DM FOR MUTUAL wrote:

Anaxii wrote:

unlimited>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
a
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