Derekku Chan wrote:

derekku chan wrote:

c) Mafia will lynch you so you can't help the town. (Unless you are mafia)

Or night kill. I think I meant both. Doesn't matter.

Oh, I misread your statement. I thought by lynch you meant kill during the Night.

I guess the Mafia could convince everyone to vote for me to be lynched. That'd be pretty difficult though because not much information is out there, and the Mafia know more than we do (they know which team everyone is on, right?). So ... that could be a clue.

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

I was merely saying that if I were Mafia I would role claim to defend myself (because you wouldn't want to lynch a Doctor unless you were a Mafia, of course). But I am not role claiming to defend myself. And it's not true that I'm using that to defend myself. So I'm not sure where you think I'm defending myself.

First, you claim an important role. Then you make a post saying that people shouldn't be voting for someone who claims a role. How is that not defending yourself!?

No, I was asking a question:

strager wrote:

If someone claimed to be an important role to the town, wouldn't you be cautious not to vote him?

Echo wrote:

Also part in bold - what do you mean you're not defending yourself? That's a baseless statement with no evidence.

Saying I am defending myself (however implicitly) is baseless. So I'll completely disregard your attacks on my defense.

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

So I think it's safe to say he does believe I am the Mafia and he is not. That is, I am clearing adam's name as a suspect Mafia for me.

strager wrote:

I never said I was convinced he wasn't Mafia.

Read that and tell me you never said you weren't convinced. You were absolutely totally completely convinced in the first quote that adam is not mafia.

I meant to say I wasn't convinced by someone else. Sorry.

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

Echo wrote:

Villagers don't lie about aux roles.

Eh? Is that a rule, or are you stating a general trend?

There's no reason for townies to claim aux roles. "Drawing attention" away from the real aux roles almost never works. The only people with reason to claim an aux role are either wolves or the real aux role.

There is an exception, of course, when it's all planned out, but you can't talk behind the scenes in this game so you can't use someone else as a substitute and act through them to protect yourself.

I see, that's something you've learned from experience? I'll keep that in mind for the next games I play, and even this game when the Cop shows up (if there even is a Cop; see my post a few pages back).

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

Indeed it is circular reasoning. However, because of this circular reasoning I believe kuu was trying to confuse (see his odd posts) and thus is a Mafia.

I think he was just raging, actually.

Heh, I guess so. Kinda hard to discern for me; I don't know kuu.

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strager wrote:

No, I was asking a question:

strager wrote:

If someone claimed to be an important role to the town, wouldn't you be cautious not to vote him?

That's a rhetorical question. You're telling us not to vote for you, ie. defending yourself.

strager wrote:

Echo wrote:

Also part in bold - what do you mean you're not defending yourself? That's a baseless statement with no evidence.

Saying I am defending myself (however implicitly) is baseless. So I'll completely disregard your attacks on my defense.

Your posts are defensive. This argument is based on your posts, not just random guesses in the air.

strager wrote:

I meant to say I wasn't convinced by someone else. Sorry.

So you admit that you convinced yourself adam is townie? My point still stands - you can't convince yourself someone is townie when they haven't made a single proper post unless you already know they're townie.

strager wrote:

I see, that's something you've learned from experience? I'll keep that in mind for the next games I play, and even this game when the Cop shows up (if there even is a Cop; see my post a few pages back).

So now you're admitting cop? General rule: first to mention cop in any way is cop themselves.

I was going to vote you now, but since you're suggesting you're cop now, I'll let you defend yourself first.

@Echo, imo you can't really blame him for getting defensive when every post you make attacks each sentence of his one by one

And how exactly does mentioning the cop imply that he's claiming cop??

sorry, but this whole thing is making me a tad suspicious...

0_o wrote:

@Echo, imo you can't really blame him for getting defensive when every post you make attacks each sentence of his one by one

And how exactly does mentioning the cop imply that he's claiming cop??

sorry, but this whole thing is making me a tad suspicious...

I was going to write that myself.

You're attacking. Am I supposed to just take that?

Okay, I will.

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sorry to get here late guys, i only had time to scan the thread, but from what ive seen strager is the most suspicious so im placing a temporary vote on him and ill get back to it once i have time to read the rest of the thread.

ok, as of now the only 2 people i haven't "diagnosed" in my mind as pro-town is adam2046 and nardi. And since nardi has barely posted anything, I'll throw a vote his way and see if that makes him speak up

Vote nardi

0_o wrote:

And since nardi has barely posted anything, I'll throw a vote his way and see if that makes him speak up

That's mostly because he hasn't had a chance to get on. When he did get on not much was going on. If I were you I'd wait like 14 hours until he has had a chance to post again.

(I'm not disagreeing with your reasoning; I'm just saying you may be a bit early. Then again you can always change your vote.)

strager wrote:

0_o wrote:

And since nardi has barely posted anything, I'll throw a vote his way and see if that makes him speak up

That's mostly because he hasn't had a chance to get on. When he did get on not much was going on. If I were you I'd wait like 14 hours until he has had a chance to post again.

(I'm not disagreeing with your reasoning; I'm just saying you may be a bit early. Then again you can always change your vote.)

We'll see. I don't really find nardi particularly suspicious, it's just that everyone else just seems innocent

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

Echo wrote:

dammit WHY do the doctors always need to expose themselves on the first day?

D= I didn't mean to.

Firstly, strager never claimed doctor. He just went with what I said. The real doctor would have tried to cover it up. strager, on the other hand, admitted it straight away.

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

I meant to say I wasn't convinced by someone else. Sorry.

So you admit that you convinced yourself adam is townie? My point still stands - you can't convince yourself someone is townie when they haven't made a single proper post unless you already know they're townie.

Secondly, he admitted to convincing himself adam is townie without adam making any real posts. Plus, he completely ignored this accusation in his last post.

0_o wrote:

And how exactly does mentioning the cop imply that he's claiming cop??

The cop role shouldn't be on your mind, since he's useless until after the first night. Therefore, mentioning it is a tad suspicious. Why would strager be thinking about the cop, then?

Don't dodge the question.

Echo wrote:

Don't dodge the question.

I have stated:

strager wrote:

You're attacking. Am I supposed to just take that?

Okay, I will.

If you were a townie you would have no problem defending yourself, since my accusations would all be incorrect. The mere fact that you gave up tells me you're very likely mafia.

vote strager

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@adam that quote was directed at strager

Yeah I know...just pointing out that I sleep alot.

One of those voting for me (adam, Echo, SFG - alphabetical order) is a Mafia. If another vote comes my way the other Mafia will hop in and lynch me.

Just a prediction.

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Derekku Chan wrote:

Echo is being über aggressive, but you've been that way in all the games so that doesn't really say anything. :>

So true.

Derekku Chan wrote:

bagelbob is just acting retarded.

Maybe because he's confident. Thus, is he Mafia?

Derekku Chan wrote:

0_o voted adam off the bat for no fucking reason, then changed to kuu with no reason, and then to nardi for no reason. This is *very* suspicious to me.

I don't know why he didn't vote for me with all of Echo's accusations. He hasn't voted for Echo either. I don't know what to think yet.

Derekku Chan wrote:

SFG just joined in, so I'm not sure what to make of her, yet. But she was awful quick to vote...

Isn't she used to Warewolf games? (I dunno; I haven't followed this style of games much.) Does an early vote mean anything different there, where majority vote doesn't mean automatic lynch?

Anyway I'm not too suspicious of her even if she has voted for me.

Also, your colours are ghey.

strager wrote:

Derekku Chan wrote:

SFG just joined in, so I'm not sure what to make of her, yet. But she was awful quick to vote...

Isn't she used to Warewolf games? (I dunno; I haven't followed this style of games much.) Does an early vote mean anything different there, where majority vote doesn't mean automatic lynch?
I don't think majority does anything. I'd have to reread through WWG rules, but I think it just goes until the day ends. An early vote in any game without discussion is usually stupid, but she DID vote after reading through, so I dunno.

strager wrote:

Also, your colours are ghey.

Thanks :T

derekku wrote:

0_o voted adam off the bat for no fucking reason, then changed to kuu with no reason, and then to nardi for no reason. This is *very* suspicious to me.

The first two votes are called random votes. It's what you do at the start of the game. The vote for nardi was clearly indicated to be a temporary vote in order to get him to talk.

derekku wrote:

adam jumped in and voted for strager for voting for echo.

This is also called a random vote to get the game started.

derekku wrote:

strager is mildly suspicious to me, but I still have doubts. He is a newbie to this game and could just be making mistakes. Or he knows what he's doing. Or he's mafia... hmm... Also, he voted Echo off the bat with no reasoning or discussion. wtf

strager knows exactly what he's doing. His vote for me was also a case of random voting.

derekku has posted about absolutely nothing. All the so-called votes he's pointing out as "suspicious" are random votes made at the start of the game.

keep voting strager
FOS derekku

strager please elaborate on the bagelbob point. Can you point out anywhere in his posts that make you feel he's confident about the game, and the train of thought that leads you to think he's mafia?

This is a simple question, the answer to which you should already have in your mind, since you made a post about it. Don't back out of answering another one of my questions.

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Can you explain (in detail) how adam voting for you made you convince yourself that adam is townie?

Echo wrote:

Can you explain (in detail) how adam voting for you made you convince yourself that adam is townie?

Sure.

adam2046 wrote:

Vote: Strager
You're obviously mafia because you're trying to kill Echo day 1.

This is obviously a random vote, but it has a reason for it. That reason is, of course, nonsense, and he's trying to defend his Mafia buddy.

But if that last bit were true, he wouldn't state that as a reason, would he? That'd be a pretty bad slip, and I know adam's not stupid.

But assuming he did make a mistake in saying that, you will notice how adam continues to focus on me but without much claim still:

adam2046 wrote:

I have only found strager suspicious and more suspicious.
I vote Stra-oh I already did that ^_^

Either he is an experienced player trying to trick me into thinking he doesn't know what he's doing, he's hiding something (e.g. he is a Mafia and if he can seem to focus his attention on me and away from him all the better), or he's just sticking to me because he wants to accuse me at random, as I am an easy target for anyone at this point.

If I were to be lynched because Echo is a Mafia (back to the first quote, where I suggest adam is defending his Mafia buddy) (also, I'm not accusing you here, just hypothetically) that'd be great because then the Doctor is killed and the Mafia get a free kill off anyone else. (Of course I would try using my ability to protect who I think is the most likely to be killed by the
Mafia.)

If I were to be lynched because adam believes I am a Mafia because I voted so early... I don't know what to say to that. I don't have the experience to say if early voting is a good idea, a bad idea, and if it's good or bad to vote for an early voter (etc. etc.).

If I were to be lynched because adam starts a trend (as he seems to be doing now) ... Well I'm sure you can guess the outcome (a lynched soul).

----------

So actually by writing all this I see my claim that adam is on my team is probably wrong, and Echo is right in questioning my reasoning.

For now I'll still say adam is on the town's side, though, out of gut feeling. By reasoning, though, adam seems to be a larger target as a Mafia.

(I'm too tired to proofread this so sorry for any mistakes.)

I have only played 2 of these games in my entire life.
I'm not voting you because you voted early, I'm voting you because after my random vote you actually became suspicious...That's why I was going to vote twice, I didn't actually realise I had voted on you.

adam2046 wrote:

I have only played 2 of these games in my entire life.

I've played...

None.

=X

adam2046 wrote:

I'm not voting you because you voted early, I'm voting you because after my random vote you actually became suspicious...That's why I was going to vote twice, I didn't actually realise I had voted on you.

Okay. I understand the reasoning behind your second post.

How do you explain the first post, though? Just a random vote?

Echo wrote:

derekku wrote:

0_o voted adam off the bat for no fucking reason, then changed to kuu with no reason, and then to nardi for no reason. This is *very* suspicious to me.

The first two votes are called random votes. It's what you do at the start of the game. The vote for nardi was clearly indicated to be a temporary vote in order to get him to talk.

This.

strager wrote:

I don't know why he didn't vote for me with all of Echo's accusations. He hasn't voted for Echo either. I don't know what to think yet.

Hold on a sec. You are claiming to be the doctor, yet you don't know why I'm not voting for you? I already said I believe you...

As for Echo, he is under my radar, but this is just how he plays: he pressures people to see if they slip. And if you step up with a role claim like that at the very beginning, you can bet that Echo is gonna be all over it. And so far you aren't doing a great job of protecting yourself

So yes, I have a different opinion than Echo, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna vote for him. Personally I'd rather wait a day and see what happens; some of your posts have been a little strange (hereby suspicious) but the fact that you might be (and probably are) the doctor is keeping me from voting for you.

Oh, and with regards to adam's vote before:

adam2046 wrote:

Vote: Strager
You're obviously mafia because you're trying to kill Echo day 1.

If you followed any of the previous mafia/warewolf games, Echo got killed first or second day almost every game, so that's what he's referring to

EDIT: randomly forgot a word :3

Yes I say in that post.

adam2046 wrote:

I'm voting you because after my random vote you actually became suspicious...

0_o wrote:

strager wrote:

I don't know why he didn't vote for me with all of Echo's accusations. He hasn't voted for Echo either. I don't know what to think yet.

Hold on a sec. You are claiming to be the doctor, yet you don't know why I'm not voting for you? I already said I believe you...

D'oh, didn't consider this. I was just commenting on what Derekku wrote and really thinking. Sorry to put any wrong on you. =X

adam2046 wrote:

Oh, and with regards to adam's vote before:

adam2046 wrote:

Vote: Strager
You're obviously mafia because you're trying to kill Echo day 1.

If you followed any of the previous mafia/warewolf games, Echo got killed first or second day almost every game, so that's what he's referring to

Oh.

xD

adam2046 wrote:

Yes I say in that post.

adam2046 wrote:

I'm voting you because after my random vote you actually became suspicious...

Okay I'm starting to miss words so I think I'll go to sleep now.

x_x

You're also starting to quote wrong.

strager wrote:

adam2046 wrote:

Oh, and with regards to adam's vote before:

It's annoying that 90% of the posts in mafia/ww game threads are made when I'm either asleep or at school. Anyway, I vote strager as he seems the most suspicious to me and this game is confusing as hell compared to WWG.

But there's only 9 pages so far...

He can't take part in these wonderful conversations though.

Gah come on guys, he may be acting a little oddly, but keep in mind this is his first game, and Echo's been at him the whole time, can you really blame him for stumbling a bit?

That said, please don't be a mafia strager, if you get lynched tonight and you are, I have a feeling there will be shifty eyes pointed my way tomorrow

strager: please explain to me how this doesn't look fishy.

First, I suggested that strager was doctor, to which he immediately confirmed. The real doctor wouldn't have wanted to expose himself - he'd die night 1 and the whole town would be in a bit of trouble.

strager wrote:

Echo wrote:

But if you weren't the doctor, you wouldn't care.
dammit WHY do the doctors always need to expose themselves on the first day?

D= I didn't mean to.

Later, strager confirms that he convinced himself adam is townie after I pointed out a contradiction in his posts (bold added my me):

strager wrote:

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

So I think it's safe to say he does believe I am the Mafia and he is not. That is, I am clearing adam's name as a suspect Mafia for me.

strager wrote:

I never said I was convinced he wasn't Mafia.

Read that and tell me you never said you weren't convinced. You were absolutely totally completely convinced in the first quote that adam is not mafia.

I meant to say I wasn't convinced by someone else. Sorry.

But at this point, adam had only made 4 posts, two of which (here and here) were trash posts directed at strager and kuwarudo respectively, while his first post was a random vote and his latest post at this point was this one:

adam2046 wrote:

I have only found strager suspicious and more suspicious.
I vote Stra-oh I already did that ^_^

This post is either suspicious because adam made a vote with no evidence, or could be counted as a random early vote post.

None of adam's posts in any way indicate that he is townie, and no one should be able to confirm this. Yet strager claims to believe, and has managed to convince himself, that adam is townie. I suspect this is because strager is mafia and knows that adam is townie.

strager's explanation doesn't really fly either. He focusses on adam's random votes extensively, trying to impart meaning to them. Then, he goes into a whole heap of "if"s, none of which mean anything, due to WIFOM thinking. The only arguments that carry any weight are arguments backed with evidence.

Finally, the coup de grâce (in the same post):

strager wrote:

So actually by writing all this I see my claim that adam is on my team [townie] is probably wrong, and Echo is right in questioning my reasoning.

Now he's backing out of the claim!

If anything, that final backing out solidifies my argument. Good luck convincing me that you're not mafia. You don't have much time, nardi put you on L-1.

edit:
note to everyone: I've probably made just as many posts as strager has. If I can pick holes in strager's arguments and claims, then any lies, inconsistencies or logical fallacies I've made should also be just as evident. I encourage you to through and confirm or deny, for yourself, the authenticity of my train of thought.

Umm, I'll try...
le'see, I could be mafia and strager could be saying I'm definitley human because we are both mafia together?
That's about the only thing I feel like picking at.

adam2046 wrote:

Umm, I'll try...
le'see, I could be mafia and strager could be saying I'm definitley human because we are both mafia together?
That's about the only thing I feel like picking at.

He has a point, maybe we should lynch him tomorrow!

Yeah let-wait me?

Echo's post makes logical points, but I still feel that a lot of his mafia "tells" are simply beginner slip-ups.

strager wrote:

Indeed, which makes adam somewhat suspect because he is voting for me. Then again, if he were the Mafia, he'd kill me anyway. So I think it's safe to say he does believe I am the Mafia and he is not. That is, I am clearing adam's name as a suspect Mafia for me.

To someone with not a lot of experience I believe this would seem like a perfectly legitimate argument; the mafia wouldn't vote to lynch someone who they were going to kill at night anyway. Again, being a new player, he wouldn't get the idea of random voting and would attempt to analyze every action that is made, regardless of how small.

Echo wrote:

strager wrote:

So actually by writing all this I see my claim that adam is on my team [townie] is probably wrong, and Echo is right in questioning my reasoning.

Now he's backing out of the claim!

Well he says right there in the quote that he backed out because of your arguments, and while you may take that as being wishy-washy, I think it's just as reasonable to say that he changed his mind because your arguments convinced him that adam might not be as innocent as he thought.

If during your first ever game you get persistently grilled throughout the entire day by an aggressive player like Echo, I don't care if you are human or mafia, you're gonna say something that draws suspicion. Honestly, I think the reason he draws the most suspicion is because Echo has made him the focus of attention all day; no one else has really had the chance to draw attention to themselves.

Bleh, I gotta go now, but just remember, he's a new player who doesn't know the ins and outs of this game. I don't think I can say any more, it's in all of your hands now. If you decide to lynch him, you better be confident in the fact that he isn't the doctor, because if he is, this game will be off to a very bad start.

EDIT: also
Unvote nardi
Vote adam