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[Proposal] - Better clarification regarding featured artist tags

posted
Total Posts
18
rosario wknd
854 posts
Joined April 2015
Topic Starter
rosario wknd
"If the song mapped is a licensed one in the featured artist library, featured artist must be added to tags."

Wording for this rule is kinda ambiguous regarding whether featured artist tags can be included if the song in question was composed by a featured artist, but isn't officially listed on the featured artist page

Relevant example, song isn't listed on Camellia's featured artist listing so confusion arose on whether "featured artist" in tags was acceptable and thus the map was unnecessarily disqualified, despite the inverse of the above rule not being accurate

Would make sense for the tags to be acceptable for a song like this, because at the end of the day Camellia is still a featured artist regardless of whether the associated song is on his listing, and barring the tags just makes the map less searchable especially if people are trying to discover more of his music

Honestly just tack on an extra blurb at the end or something:
"If the song mapped is composed by a featured artist but not listed on their featured artist library, the featured artist tags are optional"

Also related but the "If the song mapped is a licensed one" bit is kinda redundant, just rewrite the current rule as "If the song mapped is licensed in the featured artist library, featured artist must be added to tags."
Chromate
98 posts
Joined October 2019
Chromate
honestly this change was much needed, even though it didnt state that we must not add the fa tag on non-licensed tracks, it still bugged us a lot on whether we may add it or not based on its interpretation
frozz
622 posts
Joined February 2016
frozz
agree with rosario

also we dont know if osu will add more song to featured artist listing or not (like camellia one), so adding fa to tags on song that didnt listed in fa page is make sense to me (since its featured artist, not featured song)

edit: idk if its camellia or akira complex, since it is announce on fa updates)
Last edited by frozz , edited 1 time in total.
AJT
551 posts
Joined August 2013
AJT
would probably make sense for the proposed blurb to rather specify that if the song is not licensed then to *not* use FA tags, so that they can be used to tag licensed content, but i can see it going either way

either way i agree there should be more clarification about whether this is ok because different authorities have said different things: pishi says you shouldn't add FA tags if the song isn't licensed, meanwhile peppy batch added fa to tags on old maps by artist and not by song (but he just tweeted this https://twitter.com/ppy/status/1379997133441409027 today so maybe he now disagrees with that idk)
Last edited by AJT , edited 1 time in total.
Dignan
244 posts
Joined June 2014
Dignan
Change from optional to disallowed but otherwise agree with the proposal.

FA tags should mark licensed content, giving unlicensed songs of a featured artist FA tags is misleading and may cause people to think those songs are officially licensed by osu!
Noffy
Nomination Assessment Team
1,685 posts
Joined April 2012
Noffy
This is sort of a weird case to address because both pishi and I think unlicensed songs should NOT use the tag, but a while back old maps were retroactively automatically tagged with it based off the artist field resulting in many random not featured tracks having it.

So it can't exactly fit that purpose of solely showing licensed stuff regardless.. this would likely come in other features down the line instead.

I think wknd's initial proposal would do well to avoid confusion.
Last edited by Noffy , edited 1 time in total.
Shmiklak
Elite Storyboarder
3,258 posts
Joined January 2015
Shmiklak

Noffy wrote:

This is sort of a weird case to address because both pishi and I think unlicensed songs should NOT use the tag, but a while back old maps were retroactively automatically tagged with it based off the artist field resulting in many random not featured tracks having it.

So it can't exactly fit that purpose of solely showing licensed stuff regardless.. this would likely come in other features down the line instead.

I think wknd's initial proposal would do well to avoid confusion.
what is the problem behind removing those useless tags from maps which don't require them though?
Noffy
Nomination Assessment Team
1,685 posts
Joined April 2012
Noffy

Shmiklak wrote:

Noffy wrote:

This is sort of a weird case to address because both pishi and I think unlicensed songs should NOT use the tag, but a while back old maps were retroactively automatically tagged with it based off the artist field resulting in many random not featured tracks having it.

So it can't exactly fit that purpose of solely showing licensed stuff regardless.. this would likely come in other features down the line instead.

I think wknd's initial proposal would do well to avoid confusion.
what is the problem behind removing those useless tags from maps which don't require them though?
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........


Checking through nearly 2k maps to see if their songs are featured or not would be an insane effort, and only NAT (or handful of GMT+BN) are able to change online tags which greatly limits who can help do that.
Shmiklak
Elite Storyboarder
3,258 posts
Joined January 2015
Shmiklak
I see now, although I'd prefer if fa tags were disallowed from usage for non listed songs.

Additionally, I think something similar was already brought up by 3mplify when we were discussing new genre and language categories additions, however I suggest to let more people control those settings rather than just NAT members, for example beatmap nominators. I really don't get why we have the options to change tags but can't actually use them. It might help in this case, though quite offtopic.
SilentWuffer
289 posts
Joined December 2017
SilentWuffer
Hard agree from me, also agree with disallowing on non-licensed songs
Dialect
1,535 posts
Joined May 2018
Dialect
agree

personally tho, you should exclude on songs featured in other sources (excluding those ones in the fa library, like airborne robots since that's already featured in geometry dash) since they aren't really associated with osu
Last edited by Dialect , edited 1 time in total.
Noffy
Nomination Assessment Team
1,685 posts
Joined April 2012
Noffy
yaspo has been a huge chad and put together a comprehensive list of maps of unlicensed tracks with the "featured artist" tags, we'll be going through and removing those from online tags for the relevant maps.

With that being taken care of (yay!), I have now opened a pull request to disallow the tags on unlicensed tracks, you can see it here:

https://github.com/ppy/osu-wiki/pull/5831
AncuL
1,114 posts
Joined March 2013
AncuL

peppy wrote:

The tag should be added based on the artist name if anything?

A "featured artist" is an "artist" not a track.
(^ from github pr)

It depends on what we define as FA.

For example if we're going to push all maps under FA tag into a more "official" state, there would be problems because we included songs that we don't license
peppy
19,318 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
The tag was applied automatically and is intended to mark artist which are... featured artist.

If it were there to mark "featured artist track"s then the tag would be as such, no?

I'm not sure where this requirement is coming from. If it's to provide the ability to filter by licensed featured artist tracks: that functionality will be coming and will not rely on flimsy tags like this. As you'd expect, the status of such tracks is constantly changing and we can't expect mappers or the BN/NAT to keep up with re-tagging beatmaps. I also wouldn't consider such tags being a reason for disqualification or otherwise, seems kinda a waste of time.
rosario wknd
854 posts
Joined April 2015
Topic Starter
rosario wknd
How about in addition to the current featured artist tag, we introduce a featured song tag:

If the song mapped is a licensed one in the featured artist library, featured artist & featured song must both be added to tags. If the song is from a featured artist but is not licensed, featured song must be omitted.

This would solve the common misunderstandings regarding these tags + would allow for unlicensed songs to still be searchable/associated with featured artists just without the featured song tag
Niva
Global Moderator
3,190 posts
Joined November 2009
Niva

rosario wknd wrote:

How about in addition to the current featured artist tag, we introduce a featured song tag:
From what I'm aware of by now this "Featured" tag has actually been on the pipeline for implementation in the near future tho -- although not in the scope/form that is being discussed in this thread. The details are here : http://github.com/ppy/osu-web/pull/7609#issuecomment-895736411

(cmiiw but) From my understanding, basically once implemented all tracks in the Featured Artist library will have a unique "track_id" parameter dedicated to them. This "track_id" parameter would then allow mappers and presumably BNs/NATs/GMTs/etc to link the maps to the corresponding licensed song(s) and artist page(s), in a way that is quite similar to what we have on the http://mappersguild.com website right now :



(I have no idea how this would affect the Ranking Criteria going forward tho... ;~;)
Last edited by Niva , edited 5 times in total.
epic man 2
513 posts
Joined May 2019
epic man 2
So wait, would that future FA tag on beatmap pages be exclusively for songs that are licensed in the FA library or would we use them generally regardless of if the said song is not in their FA listing? I'm confused.

Also unsure if people are fine with this opinion, but I think the Featured Artist tags on unlicensed songs from an artist are fine to me, so I don't really get how its misleading — it would've been more misleading for if it was for when it comes to "featured" songs instead than artists in my opinion.
Noffy
Nomination Assessment Team
1,685 posts
Joined April 2012
Noffy
I've closed the PR thread, I think leaving it as it is now is fine for the time being with above points in mind. The new website visual tagging will help clarify what is and isn't a featured track, which solves the initial issue. I think it's best to keep the rule for adding it to tags for in-game compatibility with stable, but we can remove the rule entirely when lazer becomes the main way to play.
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