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owc new rule request

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Topic Starter
Metro
Due to recent developments I'd like to request to the owc organizers (Loctav?) to implement a 0 tolerance to cheaters rule.

Cheaters such as:

Clementine (ex moneto)
Lunah (now lesslunatic)
Pancake (ex Tom94/69)
Ignacio

Should be banned eternally for next owc's or official tournaments.

Once a cheater, always a cheater.

Thank you.
xsrsbsns

Metro wrote:

Once a cheater, always a cheater.
Wise words from a wise guy.
Wishy
IMO every player who was ever banned because of cheating should not be allowed on any official event, NO EXCEPTIONS.

Same applies to players (or even teams as a whole) who have continuosly tried to disrupt the event.

Once you have been banned because of cheating you can't be trusted.
PeaChick

Metro wrote:

Due to recent developments I'd like to request to the owc organizers (Loctav?) to implement a 0 tolerance to cheaters rule.

Cheaters such as:

Clementine (ex moneto)
Lunah (now lesslunatic)
Pancake (ex Tom94/69)
Ignacio

Should be banned eternally for next owc's or official tournaments.

Once a cheater, always a cheater.

Thank you.
ごみ
Kanye West

PeaChick wrote:

ごみ
Topic Starter
Metro

Wishy wrote:

IMO every player who was ever banned because of cheating should not be allowed on any official event, NO EXCEPTIONS.
This is precisely the rule I am requesting.

Wishy wrote:

Same applies to players (or even teams as a whole) who have continuosly tried to disrupt the event.
This is unrelated to this request.

Wishy wrote:

Once you have been banned because of cheating you can't be trusted.
Exactly.
Frostmourne

xsrsbsns wrote:

Metro wrote:

Once a cheater, always a cheater.
Wise words from a wise guy.
JAKACHAN
I cheated in counterstrike once when I was like 12. I haven't even looked at a cheat engine since.

Once a cheater not always a cheater.
JappyBabes

JAKACHAN wrote:

I cheated in counterstrike once when I was like 12.
rebellllll
Wishy
There is a big difference between casually and obviously cheating on some game you don't really care about and what people like this do (cheat, lie to everyone, get tons of e-penis, etc).
Topic Starter
Metro

JAKACHAN wrote:

I cheated in counterstrike once when I was like 12. I haven't even looked at a cheat engine since.

Once a cheater not always a cheater.
Casual cheating =! competitive cheating.
Mara
I used the Konami Code in Contra, but then I realized that I didn't need it.

But this rule does sound pretty good.
JAKACHAN

Metro wrote:

JAKACHAN wrote:

I cheated in counterstrike once when I was like 12. I haven't even looked at a cheat engine since.

Once a cheater not always a cheater.
Casual cheating =! competitive cheating.
osu! is not nearly as competetive as counterstrike tournaments.

Oh and I cheated in counterstrike tournaments where you actually could get paid money.

I was more around the age of 14-15 when I did it.

My post still stands.
Mara
ESL or ESEA?
Topic Starter
Metro

JAKACHAN wrote:

Metro wrote:

Casual cheating =! competitive cheating.
osu! is not nearly as competetive as counterstrike tournaments.

Oh and I cheated in counterstrike tournaments where you actually could get paid money.

I was more around the age of 14-15 when I did it.

My post still stands.
There are always exceptions. But there's also only your word. We can't believe cheaters promises. Not even Clementine can be trusted. He could've hacked in owc and we'll never know.
Makar
Cheaters/Multi's can be dealt with on a bigger level (ex getting banned from this game). However, if a user is not banned and they don't do anything that disrupts the tournaments or other official events, I would consider it okay. If the user cheats during the matches, then it will be dealt with as well.
Topic Starter
Metro

Makar wrote:

Cheaters/Multi's can be dealt with on a bigger level (ex getting banned from this game). However, if a user is not banned and they don't do anything that disrupts the tournaments or other official events, I would consider it okay. If the user cheats during the matches, then it will be dealt with as well.
You can't be 100% sure that the suspected player isn't cheating.

Clementine made a lot of cheated scores and no one even noticed until he purposely did it to get banned.
Makar

Metro wrote:

Makar wrote:

Cheaters/Multi's can be dealt with on a bigger level (ex getting banned from this game). However, if a user is not banned and they don't do anything that disrupts the tournaments or other official events, I would consider it okay. If the user cheats during the matches, then it will be dealt with as well.
You can't be 100% sure that the suspected player isn't cheating.

Clementine made a lot of cheated scores and no one even noticed until he purposely did it to get banned.
I think players of something as big as OWC maybe get looked into for cheating. If it's actually reported or specifically looked into, the upper staff seems pretty good at finding out if they are a cheater or not.
Frostmourne
one thing easy to be clear

It just looks ugly when the ex-cheater participates in the official tournament even if he does cheat while competitating or not.
It's like an insulting when the ex-cheater can be popular. That exactly insults players who intentionally play on their spirit.


last thing, it looks so extremely biased, nothing else when the moderators try to overlook these cheaters.
That makes moderator team look worse totally.
JappyBabes

Metro wrote:

You can't be 100% sure that the suspected player isn't cheating.

Clementine made a lot of cheated scores and no one even noticed until he purposely did it to get banned.
How did any of you believe that his scores on atama/revolution/chocobo were legit???
Kanye West

JappyBabes wrote:

Metro wrote:

You can't be 100% sure that the suspected player isn't cheating.

Clementine made a lot of cheated scores and no one even noticed until he purposely did it to get banned.
How did any of you believe that his scores on atama/revolution/chocobo were legit???
because cookiezi and onlyforyou can do the same thing
Yarissa
Cookiezi could cheat and nobody would even suspect it at this point.

Anyways, I think that cheating should be zero tolerance. Regardless of the circumstances or the player's history. I personally would like to see even the people who CASUALLY abuse it get permanently banned. However, there is always ban evasion, and multi accounts and account sharing are hard to continue to deal with.
Wishy
People who casually "cheat" but don't submit any kind of score nor publicly distribute hacks shouldn't really be punished, but instead they should be just considered more likely to cheat. Now those that submit a single score while using cheats should be permanently banned, if you ban A and he uses his friend B account then ban B, that's how it is, you are not supposed to share your account, and if your friend is a faggot and makes you get banned too then you should think again if he is really your friend at all.

Multi accounts are not really a problem, if you properly apply ban policies you get to a point where whenever you see a somehow new account get really hard scores, you can just ban him, cause it's OBVIOUS that he is a cheater, someone who got banned in the past or someone using a second account which is not allowed. From the moment you do that when some cheater gets banned he is gonna have to get a new account, play low difficulties for a long time, and then slowly start getting better. If some guy comes and with 500 plays is already playing super-insanes you don't need some genius to understand what's going on. So yeah the previous cheater gonna have to fake play about 20000/30000 plays before being able to start doing SOME hard stuff, and we all know that no one is really that patient. I mean you gotta play 20000 times for real, I guess it is possible for peppy to investigate exactly what you have played (and what results you got) through your life on this game...

Really it's not that hard to deal with, new account getting pro scores = instant ban, even if you are not sure why, you can be sure that he is either a cheater or a multi account.
charlieT_old

Kaoru wrote:

Cookiezi could cheat and nobody would even suspect it at this point.
Ehh I'd think that Cookiezi is likely by far the most scrutinized player when it comes to cheating. Whoever has that program that generates the hit time graphs probably analyzes Cookiezi's replays on a regular basis to check for foul play. What happened with Clementine is just like Tom all over again, gradually getting more and more brazen with setting extremely high acc scores until one day your accuracy is even better than Cookiezi's? Future cheaters should at least learn from this. Know your boundaries...
enik

Wishy wrote:

People who casually "cheat" but don't submit any kind of score nor publicly distribute hacks shouldn't really be punished, but instead they should be just considered more likely to cheat. Now those that submit a single score while using cheats should be permanently banned, if you ban A and he uses his friend B account then ban B, that's how it is, you are not supposed to share your account, and if your friend is a faggot and makes you get banned too then you should think again if he is really your friend at all.

Multi accounts are not really a problem, if you properly apply ban policies you get to a point where whenever you see a somehow new account get really hard scores, you can just ban him, cause it's OBVIOUS that he is a cheater, someone who got banned in the past or someone using a second account which is not allowed. From the moment you do that when some cheater gets banned he is gonna have to get a new account, play low difficulties for a long time, and then slowly start getting better. If some guy comes and with 500 plays is already playing super-insanes you don't need some genius to understand what's going on. So yeah the previous cheater gonna have to fake play about 20000/30000 plays before being able to start doing SOME hard stuff, and we all know that no one is really that patient. I mean you gotta play 20000 times for real, I guess it is possible for peppy to investigate exactly what you have played (and what results you got) through your life on this game...

Really it's not that hard to deal with, new account getting pro scores = instant ban, even if you are not sure why, you can be sure that he is either a cheater or a multi account.
I agree, it should work like this. But I think they don't do it because any fair punishment system must have strict rules when and why to punish so they could give the exact answer like "User X got banned because SS'ed an Insane 200 bpm song with 500pc which is impossible according to Player Skill Restrictions" or something.
GladiOol
The moderation team should handle anything banned/cheating related. If they deem the player worthy enough to stay within the community, they should be giving the same rights as everbody else. Thus they should be allowed to play.
Loctav
I am not allowed to exclude players from tournaments that do not break the code of conduct on the account they are playing.
If they are tolerated with their current account in this community, because they didnt break any rule and are approved to be existant here by peppy, I see no reason to exclude them from anything.

Generally agreeing with GladiOol then.
VoidnOwO

Wishy wrote:

If some guy comes and with 500 plays is already playing super-insanes you don't need some genius to understand what's going on.
No amount of banned hackers justify a ban of someone who legitimately played offline for a long time without submitting any scores.

Wishy wrote:

if you properly apply ban policies you get to a point where whenever you see a somehow new account get really hard scores, you can just ban him, cause it's OBVIOUS that he is a cheater
This makes more sense.
Topic Starter
Metro
osu! will just never grow or improve competitively. We will simply go around in circles facing the same problems without even attempting to solve them.

/thread
Loctav
The problem aren't the tournament rules but the idea of banning policies. I will stay neutral on the policies, but actually I can not change this rule, neither should it be changed. The change needs to happen elsewhere, so feel free to discuss the policies you object elsewhere, as long as you keep it civil and constructive.

Locked for now. Contact me if you want to contribute something related.
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