I've wanted this but never understood why it doesn't exist, or why I didn't ask.
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+1 Internets.
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On the matter of slider speeds [Added] [Confirmed] [Denied] [Resolved]
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I wanted an osu! with no slider velocity changes which is why this doesn't exist. Unfortunately people won over my vote.
I have offered to add a warning in the past if someone gives me a sprite/idea.
I have offered to add a warning in the past if someone gives me a sprite/idea.
Topic Starter
Care to explain why this is? Because I think it would be a great addition and add lots of new mapping possibilities.peppy wrote:
I wanted an osu! with no slider velocity changes which is why this doesn't exist. Unfortunately people won over my vote.
I have offered to add a warning in the past if someone gives me a sprite/idea.
There have been several instances in my recent WIPs where I wanted to use 3/4x speed sliders in certain spots because they just fit better with the music or make better shapes.
It couldn't be that difficult to implement.
(Alternatively, the ability to change the tick rate in timing sections, for the purpose of compensating for BPM changes, would serve most purposes (including 3/4x), but this wouldn't fix the changing scroll rate in Taiko.)
I really need that.MetalMario201 wrote:
(Alternatively, the ability to change the tick rate in timing sections, for the purpose of compensating for BPM changes, would serve most purposes (including 3/4x), but this wouldn't fix the changing scroll rate in Taiko.)
But I recall peppy kinda implying it wasn't possible in a thread (James's probably).
Okay I didn't really read the first post because it was wall-of-text etc.
Because there is no way to visually show the change of slider speed, I believe they should not be allowed to change to just any old velocity. 0.5x and 2x are common multipliers, and in testing these feel more natural than random changes. Yes, it may be hindering possible "creativity", but I like to set some standards to keep things in-line with ranking requirements.
As always this is my personal opinion and if enough mods agree that this will not hinder the standard and playability of maps, then we'll see when that time comes. I personally find velocity changes unnecessary and disconcerting.
Download: Hatsune Miku - Sayonara Goodbye (banvi) [KS's Taiko].osu
Because there is no way to visually show the change of slider speed, I believe they should not be allowed to change to just any old velocity. 0.5x and 2x are common multipliers, and in testing these feel more natural than random changes. Yes, it may be hindering possible "creativity", but I like to set some standards to keep things in-line with ranking requirements.
As always this is my personal opinion and if enough mods agree that this will not hinder the standard and playability of maps, then we'll see when that time comes. I personally find velocity changes unnecessary and disconcerting.
Download: Hatsune Miku - Sayonara Goodbye (banvi) [KS's Taiko].osu
For x1.5 sections I just make a x1.5 non-inherent section with 1/3 (or 1/6) divisor snap. It's tough to map, but it works ^_^
FYI this is currently highly unrankable.0_o wrote:
For x1.5 sections I just make a x1.5 non-inherent section with 1/3 (or 1/6) divisor snap. It's tough to map, but it works ^_^
Is it ok to have these sections just for an individual slider? I have a WIP now that has a few sections like this only containing a single slider in each, and I think they are fairly intuitive...peppy wrote:
FYI this is currently highly unrankable.0_o wrote:
For x1.5 sections I just make a x1.5 non-inherent section with 1/3 (or 1/6) divisor snap. It's tough to map, but it works ^_^
I like the tick guide idea.
The user knows that a tick must happen every nth note, so if the ticks space out for faster sliders, surely an experienced user will know that the slider must be faster? Subtle and only for higher difficulties, but I think it works. The only problem would be this means that slider ticks can't be adjustable, and I don't want to rule that out either.
The user knows that a tick must happen every nth note, so if the ticks space out for faster sliders, surely an experienced user will know that the slider must be faster? Subtle and only for higher difficulties, but I think it works. The only problem would be this means that slider ticks can't be adjustable, and I don't want to rule that out either.
Topic Starter
Ahh, but there is: the ticks! (Ticks closer together: slow slider. Ticks further apart: fast slider.)peppy wrote:
Okay I didn't really read the first post because it was wall-of-text etc.
Because there is no way to visually show the change of slider speed, I believe they should not be allowed to change to just any old velocity.
Strange. I find 0.5x and 2x to be unnaturally extreme. I find more subtle values play much better.peppy wrote:
0.5x and 2x are common multipliers, and in testing these feel more natural than random changes. Yes, it may be hindering possible "creativity", but I like to set some standards to keep things in-line with ranking requirements.
Having used the unrankable method described by 0_o in one of my WIP maps, frankly, I can't see it any other way. Especially when the musical texture gets thinner, you might want the sliders to slow down, but find 0.5x to be much too extreme a difference.
I know authenticity isn't a strong motivator for you, but these sorts of slider speed alterations are used occasionally in Elite Beat Agents, and it's never been counter-intuitive to play these spots.
Of course, with any feature, there is room for abuse, but this is why we have ranking guidelines. (The possibility of a mapper leaving it on for the whole map didn't discourage you from adding Kiai Time.) This feature will certainly do more good than bad, and the bad can easily be filtered out by our excellent Beatmap Approval Team and fellow modders.
Sometimes, there's just that...shift of energy in the music, and you just have to pick up the pace somehow. I agree with MM201 in that very often x0.5 or x2 are just too extreme...or even not extreme enough in some cases...and to add to that, the technique described isn't possible with some maps due to issues with the bpm being very hard to divide in any way.
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
I can see how this could be easily abused for osu!standard, but I think this would be good for taiko mappers, since some songs have BPMs that go extremely fast, which makes them pretty much unreadable. (I think fly had this problem with one of his maps, so he had to ditch)
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
My current thought is to allow multiple velocities but limit to 3 total per map.
Topic Starter
That sounds perfect, peppy. I couldn't see myself using more than two; three at the very most.peppy wrote:
My current thought is to allow multiple velocities but limit to 3 total per map.
That's pretty limited for certain types of maps. It's definitely possible to creatively and efficiently use more than those 3 speeds, so why limit it? Just make a clear signal when and if a mapper uses 3 or more to limit them to that.peppy wrote:
My current thought is to allow multiple velocities but limit to 3 total per map.
Topic Starter
Bump for priority.
You might even be surprised by how much flexibility three speeds can give you. (And we still have the BPM alteration method if you really feel pressed.) We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
There could be some possible exceptions in things like marathon maps, but I'd expect these to be few and far between.JarJarJacob wrote:
That's pretty limited for certain types of maps. It's definitely possible to creatively and efficiently use more than those 3 speeds, so why limit it? Just make a clear signal when and if a mapper uses 3 or more to limit them to that.peppy wrote:
My current thought is to allow multiple velocities but limit to 3 total per map.
You might even be surprised by how much flexibility three speeds can give you. (And we still have the BPM alteration method if you really feel pressed.) We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
imo three different velocities is enough; otherwise, it's asking for people "memorizing" the sliders instead of playing the map casually.JarJarJacob wrote:
That's pretty limited for certain types of maps. It's definitely possible to creatively and efficiently use more than those 3 speeds, so why limit it? Just make a clear signal when and if a mapper uses 3 or more to limit them to that.peppy wrote:
My current thought is to allow multiple velocities but limit to 3 total per map.
Just look at Ultimate 4. That shit was almost too confusing.
I'd love to see more options with slider speeds. But I'm going to have to vote a strong no on any sort of forced warning for speed changes. If it's needed, they can SB it themselves, and I'm fine with it being an option.
I love the ticks idea, myself, though it may be hard to implement without messing up older maps. Some sort of system for optionally linking tick rate to BPM for inherited sections...
And I'm neutral on the 3 velocities. I don't really see much reason for the restriction, but I couldn't see myself needing more than that.
I love the ticks idea, myself, though it may be hard to implement without messing up older maps. Some sort of system for optionally linking tick rate to BPM for inherited sections...
And I'm neutral on the 3 velocities. I don't really see much reason for the restriction, but I couldn't see myself needing more than that.
Topic Starter
Older maps are using BPM changes to achieve slider speed changes, so they will be unaffected. (Doing anything extra will break older maps, so nothing else should be changed.)CheeseWarlock wrote:
I love the ticks idea, myself, though it may be hard to implement without messing up older maps.
And the 3 speed limit is something of a compromise, but I can't see myself (or any sane mapper) exceeding it, so I'm fine with it.
Is it possible to alter the number of lines in a slider to indicate speed?peppy wrote:
I wanted an osu! with no slider velocity changes which is why this doesn't exist. Unfortunately people won over my vote.
I have offered to add a warning in the past if someone gives me a sprite/idea.
These will be constant regardless of bpm, and only depend on slider "rate".
Not just limited to these, of course.
Topic Starter
Those are the little circles that make up the slider. With too few of them, the slider starts to get bulgey and "centipede-like". (At least if sliders are being drawn the way I think they are.)
This is really just the same idea I had with the ticks, only yours is much more subtle and easier to miss.
This is really just the same idea I had with the ticks, only yours is much more subtle and easier to miss.
@Daru
The only thing wrong with your idea is that for harder/faster songs, you probably wouldn't even notice the sliders looking different. You would be cruising through a song and only see that it's a "slider" :/
The only thing wrong with your idea is that for harder/faster songs, you probably wouldn't even notice the sliders looking different. You would be cruising through a song and only see that it's a "slider" :/
I support this idea, And I really think there should be a little warning message somewhere. I get so frustrated when slider speeds drastically change outta nowhere and there's no message. But I have seen maps with slider speed changes that were so perfect with the song. Like most people said, if theres abuse, it'll never get ranked. No limit needed.
This is what mods are for, as you say:ToRMeNToR_84 wrote:
And I really think there should be a little warning message somewhere. I get so frustrated when slider speeds drastically change outta nowhere and there's no message. But I have seen maps with slider speed changes that were so perfect with the song.
I support having multiple slider speeds.ToRMeNToR_84 wrote:
Like most people said, if theres abuse, it'll never get ranked. No limit needed.
MUST SUPPORT!
Believe [Easy] is impossible to map authentically without it
The last slider has a velocity of 1.76 compared to the rest of 1.56
Believe [Easy] is impossible to map authentically without it
The last slider has a velocity of 1.76 compared to the rest of 1.56
Hush hush you~ That was a while ago >> I just got lazy 
Back on topic, this feature could be used for taiko mapping where beats speed up without the actual BPM speeding up.
Back on topic, this feature could be used for taiko mapping where beats speed up without the actual BPM speeding up.
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
I just had to ask if there are some songs on Taiko that change the slider velo but doesn't change the BPM? I notice that on some songs, but I'm not sure.mattyu007 wrote:
Hush hush you~ That was a while ago >> I just got lazy
Back on topic, this feature could be used for taiko mapping where beats speed up without the actual BPM speeding up.
Topic Starter
I think what he means is that on songs which change the BPM to change the slider speeds (hack), it adversely causes the Taiko approach rate to be doubled.
This is correct behaviour for Taiko. The real problem is the lack of true support for variable slider speeds.
This is correct behaviour for Taiko. The real problem is the lack of true support for variable slider speeds.
Ekiben has them on Oni (Marked in red with "HS___")Zekira wrote:
I just had to ask if there are some songs on Taiko that change the slider velo but doesn't change the BPM? I notice that on some songs, but I'm not sure.
This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Topic Starter
...which is why they shouldn't be so extreme as 2x and 1/2x.lukewarmholiday wrote:
If slider speed changes are so extreme that they cause a substantial hindrance they shouldn't exist at all.
Especially without any visual cues.
Bump?
Okay now I support this more. This is because of the realization that some Taiko maps NEED this :\ *hi Kita Saitama*
Taiko needs this. MORE SUPPORT
Topic Starter
Need I remind that Taiko also indirectly needs this, in that random, short double BPM sections lead to major WTF moments. 
EDIT:Discussed some stuff in IRC. Sorry for my tone, I just really needed to get this attention seeing my request moved to complete.
(To summarize, slider ticks, beat snap divisors, and Taiko bar lines need to ignore this new custom inheritance BPM thingo.)
EDIT:Discussed some stuff in IRC. Sorry for my tone, I just really needed to get this attention seeing my request moved to complete.
(To summarize, slider ticks, beat snap divisors, and Taiko bar lines need to ignore this new custom inheritance BPM thingo.)
You mean directly? I'm trying to map Angel Dream Inner Oni which uses 1.25x, 1.5x, 2x, 3x and 4x multipliers... I guess I could map with the 1x BPM and then add in the inherited sections, but that would probably screw up the barlines...MetalMario201 wrote:
Need I remind that Taiko also indirectly needs this
Topic Starter
I discussed with peppy on IRC. A fix should be coming soon.mattyu007 wrote:
You mean directly? I'm trying to map Angel Dream Inner Oni which uses 1.25x, 1.5x, 2x, 3x and 4x multipliers... I guess I could map with the 1x BPM and then add in the inherited sections, but that would probably screw up the barlines...MetalMario201 wrote:
Need I remind that Taiko also indirectly needs this
...w...wait a minute...
[Added]? Seriously?
/me delays his 36 minute map to wait for the diff. speed features
[Added]? Seriously?
/me delays his 36 minute map to wait for the diff. speed features
Topic Starter
Please hold off on the champagne until the implementation is fixed. =/Zekira wrote:
...w...wait a minute...
[Added]? Seriously?
/me delays his 36 minute map to wait for the diff. speed features
(What's written right now is glorified red timing points.)
Topic Starter
Don't tell me this is on the backburner again. -.-
What happened with this request? 
This was implemented but not working in one test build, and gone in the next. I'm going to go out on a limb here and un-complete this request, since I would really like to see this added.
Edit: Um, okay. Can't seem to delete the [Added] status?...
Edit2: And now it's Added and Confirmed when I tried to find a status workaround. I'm going to stop trying now.
Edit: Um, okay. Can't seem to delete the [Added] status?...
Edit2: And now it's Added and Confirmed when I tried to find a status workaround. I'm going to stop trying now.
[Added] [Confirmed] [Denied]Lol.
Simply edit the topic title.
It's not part of the topic title. 
Oh well, new thread linking back to this one I guess.
Oh well, new thread linking back to this one I guess.