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[Taiko Guideline] All break sections should be removed

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19
Kurai
osu! Alumni
7,734 posts
Joined March 2009
Topic Starter
Kurai

Taiko Guidelines wrote:

  1. Breaks
    All break sections should be artificially removed from the .osu file.
I don't understand the purpose of this rule at all, what's exactly the point ? Break times do not affect the gameplay at all, it only shows a "section-pass/fail", and letterboxes when they are enabled. I understand that the letterboxes are really ugly in taiko, but the section-pass/fail are totally fine. The guideline should be "Letterboxes should be disabled in Taiko mode."

Correct me if I'm wrong.
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane
Actually I think that Guideline should be removed, as we have this in the rules.
  1. Break time
    Taiko maps generally don't use the same defined break time sections as osu!, instead featuring short "rest sections". This means to avoid the use of constantly 1/4 notes and add some 1/1 sections for the player to recover.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding both rule and guideline.
Stefan
Global Moderator
10,420 posts
Joined January 2011
Stefan
Well, it nobody hurts if we remove the Breaks. Or am I wrong?
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
This rule is an "authentic style"-remain. Since TnT had no breaks, people agreed to take this to here, as well.
I think the rule to 'not leave breaks at all' (like Stefan said) it totally sufficient.
Shortbreaks might be removed but removing breaks at all makes no sense to me (and never made)
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,842 posts
Joined March 2010
OnosakiHito
As Loctav said, one reason was due to authentic stuff.
But as far as I know, most taiko players still disagree to allow breaks into maps because of various reasons, which I don't know all of them. Some said it breaks the flow while playing. http://osu.ppy.sh/s/52221 - This map for example got a some breaks, and it is really annoying(that's what I say). Especially the 21 sec part. It's too long, it breaks your playing-flow so you lost the feeling for the offset. Getting 100 hits is from now on much easier at the beginning of the next part. A dead-punch to many Taiko players.

Also I would not recommend to delete the rule since it worked all the time really well in this way, and changing this now would mean to set an overall agreement when to use breaks and in which cases not(not needed in my opinion). It can be used as lazy excuse not to map a part or because of reasons like having overall the same patterns. There are more aspects but need to go to school now.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz
Leave it as a guideline. It literally does not matter at all if they are there or not, but some people enjoy the authentic feel.
Cygnus
1,517 posts
Joined December 2011
Cygnus
Can we just make our own authentic rules? This is osu! not TnT anyway
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
To be honest I don't mind them unless the break is too short and becomes annoying. I don't mind long ones. Kinda contrast to Onosakihito's idea, huh?
Though sometimes the break makes the flow distracting, like (break) (a notes) (break) (a few notes) (break) or something...? Well, kinda 'case by case'.

Though personally I don't like that 'section pass/fail' thing, though. Not so big reason in here yet. Maybe I think that thing is simply 'imposed' in Taiko mode since osu! is based on ouendan series.

Fortunately Breaks in Taiko almost do nothing in real gameplay, unlike osu standard, due to difference of energy? system.

@Philippines: I guess that's what we are doing here?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

MMzz wrote:

Leave it as a guideline. It literally does not matter at all if they are there or not, but some people enjoy the authentic feel.
In that case i'd suggest moving it to recommendations then, since guidelines cant be broken except in special cases.
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro

Kurai wrote:

it only shows a "section-pass/fail"
Not in taiko afaik.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
^

Last time I played a Taiko map (which was when i was fixing a issue in an old ranked map) there were section-pass/fail there :P
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
Ono is mistaking the fact of breaks (nothing mapped) with technical breaks (those who are grey areas in editor timeline)
I agree that people should avoid to leave breaks at all (so no empty map parts), but if they have a longer section of nothing-mapped (see: Kick-Ass Kung Fu Carnival), I see no reason why we should remove the technical break (the grey area). The section is empty, so removing the grey area is not needed imo. Why would it? It stays empty.

Also agreeing with Lepidon that short breaks are stupid. (2sec grey areas), but they are stupid in any mod.
Makar
osu! Alumni
2,258 posts
Joined February 2011
Makar
In my opinion, "technical" breaks should treated the same in all modes - and even if the 2 second grey areas are stupid and you want to change them, it should apply to the other modes as well. Sometimes though this really fits the music (ex. the music stops completely for some effect before chorus) but the fact that there is a pass/fail there ruins it and so remove the grey area via .osu file would make sense. I like the long breaks.

Also, the rule that DakeDekaane quoted seems more like a factor in making a good map rather than making something that has to following ranking criteria (sorta like "dont use only circles in a standard map"). It's more of a "tip" to me, so I don't really see why it's there.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
So are we reaching a general consensus, that the artificial removing of ALL breaks (means: the grey areas in the timeline) is not needed?

So we stay to following consensus:
Avoid having breaks at all (so map through all sections without leaving gaps, if possible)
Do not have shortbreaks (this doesnt require a guideline and can be solved by modding process)
Longbreaks for non-mapped parts (which should be avoided but can happen) are fine to be a technical break (greyzones)

-> Guideline will be removed. Everyone agreeing?
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I agree with the removal
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,842 posts
Joined March 2010
OnosakiHito
Ah, my bad. I thought you wanted to remove this one:

Taiko Rules wrote:

Break time

Taiko maps generally don't use the same defined break time sections as osu!, instead featuring short "rest sections". [...]
It contains Loctav's though.

So I do agree removing the Break guideline.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz

Loctav wrote:

So are we reaching a general consensus, that the artificial removing of ALL breaks (means: the grey areas in the timeline) is not needed?

So we stay to following consensus:
Avoid having breaks at all (so map through all sections without leaving gaps, if possible)
Do not have shortbreaks (this doesnt require a guideline and can be solved by modding process)
Longbreaks for non-mapped parts (which should be avoided but can happen) are fine to be a technical break (greyzones)

-> Guideline will be removed. Everyone agreeing?
This needs to be explained better.

Break: A short period of time where there are zero notes providing a "break" from actual play. ~15 seconds or so. So this would classify under the gray areas.

Anything that is just very short (like a 1-3 seconds or so) should be just fine. Most of the time they are not mapped because the mapper wants to make a dramatic effect. (Usually a quick calm section right before the start of a kiai then a power jump into the kiai.) Most of these should be judged by common sense and extreme relation to the song. I'm not sure what you would call this but it does not fall under what the community understands is a "break".

So what do you mean when you say "Avoid using breaks at all"? because having an actual "break" is perfectly fine. Even recommended in the general guidelines for all modes. (And there are nothing wrong with them when used correctly.)



Now I'm just wondering why people got into this habit of removing letterboxes outside of an authentic feel. Seriously what is wrong with the section pass/fail. And if anything the warning arrows help you know when the notes are coming back so you can readjust yourself to the beat before the notes come at you. Like, seriously.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
I think Loctav refers to removing that guideline not implementing it MMzz.

Tho i always thought that "artifically removing" breaks was to leave the break there but avoid having a section-pass/fail, etc.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
Seems clear then.
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