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Guideline/suggestion to tag map style or patterning

posted
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11
clayton
1,842 posts
Joined November 2013
Topic Starter
clayton
it's currently very difficult to search for maps based on the mapping itself, without resorting to lists/packs that players have curated and published independently. in lieu of features in the game or on the website that help to do this, I think it'd be an interesting experiment to have mappers/modders tag styles or patterns before the maps get ranked, just simple stuff like "streams", "jumps", "high SV", "doubles"... it'd be scuffed as hell since half of the popular terms are vague or could be typed out many different ways, but I think this would be a good first step in this area before proposing it be included as a more proper game feature.

the only part of RC that references this rn is this rule about what is allowed in tags:

Ranking criteria wrote:

Tags must be related to the beatmap and not misleading for search results. Tags describing the beatmap's style, song, storyboard, video, or background content are considered to be related to the beatmap.
but that doesn't make any suggestion that you should try to tag any of those things, and in practice I'm hardly ever seeing "beatmap's style" tagged

my proposal is to add a guideline somewhere that suggests you should try to add the most prominent aspects of the gameplay/style/patterns to the tags, provided it could realistically help anyone search for it.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
If we are going to do this, we should prob establish the various mapping styles per-gamemode and prob have that in the wiki for reference if it's not there already.

Idk for other gamemodes, but from the top of my head, for mania you have
Stream patterns:
  1. Jumpstream
  2. Handstream
  3. Jackstream
  4. Dumpstream
  5. Chordstream
SV types:
  1. Glitch
  2. Teleport
  3. Slowjam
  4. Memory
Long note styles:
  1. LN
  2. LN & Rice
  3. LN Stream
  4. Inverse
Misc patterns:
  1. Burst/Tech
  2. (Poly)rhythm
  3. Minijack
  4. Longjack
  5. Quad
  6. Glut
  7. Roll/Ladder
  8. Trill
  9. Handtrill
  10. (Alt)ernation
  11. Anchor
Last edited by abraker , edited 2 times in total.
clayton
1,842 posts
Joined November 2013
Topic Starter
clayton
yup, I'd wanna link it in the guideline as reference

there's enough wiki writers around to get on that soon, but idk if we have reliable references for every game mode-- that's a good list you've got there for mania, there are a few experienced std players active on wiki already, but for taiko and catch we may have to rope some more ppl in :eyes:
Dialect
1,522 posts
Joined May 2018
Dialect
this would sound good but i'd really not want to see "whitecat full cross screen 260 bpm triple" in tags, it rlly feels unprofessional

altho on a barely related note, could be like adding fate/zero to the tags of a song not from fate/zero bc it has a fate/zero bg. allowed, but bns don't like it so
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Li Syaoran wrote:

this would sound good but i'd really not want to see "whitecat full cross screen 260 bpm triple" in tags, it rlly feels unprofessional
There should really be established terminology for the patterns being described
pw384
2,287 posts
Joined January 2012
pw384
Really not a fan of putting 'hard' tags as if maps could only exist that way. There are also a lot of unnamed styles or styles named after their founders, say, lesjuh or 0108. Putting those usernames into tags will definitely create confusion about if they participated in doing guest diffs.

Also making this a part of ranking criteria will confuse new mappers --- their experience is not adequate for figuring out in which style they are mapping.

Linkin Park - High Voltage wrote:

And like the rock and rap, you know what I mean?
People actin' like, you know, "Wow, that's a new invention!"
That sh- ain't new
I'm constantly evolving
It is constantly changing
There's a lot of change
Everybody's always tryna to put labels on
There ain't no label for this sh-
They always gonna try to put a label on it
Try to create somethin' so they could water it down
Last edited by pw384 , edited 3 times in total.
clayton
1,842 posts
Joined November 2013
Topic Starter
clayton
there wouldn't be hard set tags. if you're talking abt what abraker said, that would just be used to agree upon some terms that are already used commonly in osu, it wouldn't be a complete list of mapping styles. similar to how music databases can agree to define genres without restricting the possibility of things that do not fall into existing definitions.

pw384 wrote:

Also making this a part of ranking criteria will confuse new mappers --- their experience is not adequate for figuring out in which style they are mapping.
that's part of why it would only be a guideline or suggestion, not rule. but it's also something that can be easily modded by more experienced mappers.

e: also, this is already allowed by RC. I'm just wanting to add a guideline that says you should attempt to add beatmap-related tags if it'd help people find your map. I want to get the ball rolling sometime on proper search tools for beatmapping styles and this seems like a logical start---real-world attempt by mappers/modders/BNs would quickly show any kinks that need to be worked out on the side of whatever body of people helps build and standardize tags
Last edited by clayton , edited 1 time in total.
quila
356 posts
Joined February 2016
quila

clayton wrote:

I want to get the ball rolling sometime on proper search tools for beatmapping styles and this seems like a logical start---real-world attempt by mappers/modders/BNs would quickly show any kinks that need to be worked out on the side of whatever body of people helps build and standardize tags
i don't mean to hijack this thread but i wonder if adding something to osu's map listing system that lets players genre/tag maps themselves would work better here. mappers tend to be less knowledgable of players' language than players themselves, meaning players doing this should result in tags that are intuitive to search from their PoV. it might be worth perusing more than rc-based changes.

also on the proposal itself, one unintended consequence this would have is increasing the exposure of future maps at the expense of past ones, as past ones were not tagged in this way. whether this is something we should care about could be debated, just want to add that it would happen. personally would not like this to happen as i think higher exposure to past mapping cultures broadens users' feelings about mapping, but that is just my probably niche perspective.
Last edited by quila , edited 1 time in total.
clayton
1,842 posts
Joined November 2013
Topic Starter
clayton
the only goal here is to encourage the people who already can participate in tagging styles/patterning to actually do it more often, and see if any developments come from it

your main concern can and should be solved via other means; I'm already working on a separate system (no promises I will get the time to finish though lol) to edit metadata with more structure, including what is proposed in this thread, in a way that will properly source opinions from anyone interested---it's just not a requirement for this, I think.

same for past ranked maps: they should eventually be migrated to some system that can support fixing them up after the fact, which has been necessary (but never implemented) for every change in metadata standards. don't think that's in scope for this discussion.
Drum-Hitnormal
Beatmap Nominator
1,644 posts
Joined March 2011
Drum-Hitnormal
RC says you can do it.
You want change it to you should do it.

that doesn't really force the mapper to do it.
I think mapper will do it already if they want to, and if they are too lazy, still wont do it. so nothing changed.

What you actually want is maybe a bot that can detect common pattern/SV and add the tag accordingly. I'm sure mapper wont be against having it in tags unless you reach 1000 tag limit. This can be added to mapset verifier and be included in a BN mod.
Last edited by Drum-Hitnormal , edited 1 time in total.
clayton
1,842 posts
Joined November 2013
Topic Starter
clayton
after talking to a few people about possible setups to attempt "standardizing" this sort of thing, and working on the system I mentioned above, I realise it's a very loose end to add to RC. if it motivated anyone to try tagging this stuff immediately, it'd likely only result in confusion given little direction. I underestimated the scope of managing this type of thing.

may revisit this in a long time but for now it can be closed
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