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On disallowing ranking of authentic Taiko maps/difficulties

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18
tetsutaro
3,863 posts
Joined February 2008
Topic Starter
tetsutaro
About a few months back, I heard that peppy has disallowed ranking authentic Taiko maps, but the details are very sketchy. So here I would like to ask for clarification on this.

Could anyone of authority confirm whether a mapset is rankable by this statement when its contents are:
  1. only Taiko-only authentic maps
  2. only TaikOsu authentic maps, ranked e.g. http://osu.ppy.sh/s/16607
  3. a mix of Taiko-only authentic maps and TaikOsu authentic maps, ranked e.g. http://osu.ppy.sh/s/22485
  4. Taiko-only authentic maps plus Ouendan/standard non-authentic maps, unranked e.g. http://osu.ppy.sh/s/22374
  5. Taiko-only authentic maps plus Taiko-only non-authentic maps, unranked e.g. http://osu.ppy.sh/s/73044
  6. any other mixes you may think of
Also there has not been any related documentation in the wiki's Ranking Criteria pages. It is hoped that they will be updated soon.

In my opinion, I think that (1) not being rankable is reasonable, since that is just plain lazy. But for the others there has been at least some personal output added to the mapset, and should at least be recognized for it if it is outstanding enough. Also there has been examples of them being ranked, so I don't see the reason in suddenly disallowing ranking them.
Rokk
133 posts
Joined September 2012
Rokk
Forgive me for going slightly off-topic, but what exactly is an authentic Taiko map and why is it unrankable?
tetsutaro
3,863 posts
Joined February 2008
Topic Starter
tetsutaro
^ No this is relevant. Defining the term "authentic maps" should help move the discussion forward easier.

The most common definition is that an authentic map is exactly the same like in the real Taiko no Tatsujin games by Namco Bandai Games.
(except for balloons, yams and party balls, which osu! does not have and are usually replaced by shaker notes)

There has been rumour that peppy worry about ranking authentic maps may cause copyright problems.
Still I am looking for confirmation and official documentation to support/refute this.
VoidnOwO
1,256 posts
Joined August 2012
VoidnOwO
:oops:
Last edited by VoidnOwO , edited 1 time in total.
MMzz
Elite Mapper
3,979 posts
Joined June 2009
MMzz
They aren't rankable because it's not user created content. iirc that was what the staff decided on. (I wouldn't know I wasn't part of the staff at the time.)

As far as copyrights go that isn't the issue. ppy would be more worried about all the music that is distributed through osz files.
tetsutaro
3,863 posts
Joined February 2008
Topic Starter
tetsutaro
OK I see.

This one should really go into the Ranking Criteria though, if it is being enforced.
OzzyOzrock
5,185 posts
Joined August 2010
OzzyOzrock
Yes, and I kind of agree. We can play authentic maps on our own as much as we want, but ranked maps are about user created content.
peppy
19,318 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
When you say "authentic", do you mean "levels from another game"? If so, you are free to do this as long as you have rights to do so – in a similar fashion to the music you use to map to.
tetsutaro
3,863 posts
Joined February 2008
Topic Starter
tetsutaro
This mapset was ranked today --> http://osu.ppy.sh/s/53231
And the Taiko Muzukashii/Oni/Ura Oni difficulties are authentic (from the Taiko no Tatsujin games)

This makes me once again confused about the situation.
The mapset creator most probably would not have owned the rights to the authentic chart, so the set (at least those difficulties) will violate the "user-created content" idea.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
As long as it has original difficulties in another mode and optionally an extra Taiko one i don't mind, really, I don't see why should we disallow a scoreboard for authentic Taiko maps just because they are authentic, if anything i'd encourage them so i don't have to go and find/play the relevant Taiko game to be able to play such maps. However, if they are going as far as mapping authentic might as well map all 4 levels of difficulty :P
Yuzeyun
7,646 posts
Joined September 2010
Yuzeyun
On some cases, it would be 8. :P

As Ozzy said,

OzzyOzrock wrote:

Ranked maps are about user created content.
(Excluding the song of course, which is my case because well, 100% of the mapset is purely original.)

I also agree with Sakura, as long as we got some user-original difficulties in any given mode, there's no problem with putting authentic. (Since the other difficulties show some devotion to ranking the map, because authentic difficulties as a standalone do not show anything but a mere copy of the real game, which isn't that interesting to rank since it could be instantly ranked.)

@Sakura : You still have Taikojiro *runs*
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,842 posts
Joined March 2010
OnosakiHito
Wait. So I was able to keep mint tears authentic maps? And I made mine for nothing? FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF-

Good to know that now.

Edit: When I think about it... is it possible to have 4x osu and 8x Taiko?
Like, four of the taikos are mapped by me and the other four are the authentic one. It would not change the modding progress at all and the difficultie limitation has been excluded.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes

OnosakiHito wrote:

is it possible to have 4x osu and 8x Taiko?
Yes.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,842 posts
Joined March 2010
OnosakiHito
Okay, since everything is clear now, why not making a Rule out of this for the Taiko Ranking Criteria? So everyone is confirmed about this 'change':

Rule:
Taiko authentic beatmaps(=from the original Taiko No Tatsujin(太鼓の達人) game) are without osu difficulties not rankable. Just in dependence of osu difficulties, Taiko authentic beatmaps can be ranked.
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
I think this rule falls under the general possession rule.
You can only get stuff ranked as your mapset if you mapped the majority of it.
If you only put authentic maps, you didn't map it on your own accord.
I think adding this extra rule is redundant then, because we already have a "how much you must contribute on your own" rule.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Actually that's a good point Loctav.

But are all 4 difficulties (5 in some cases) mapped by Namco? in that case the mapper would need to map 4/5 difficulties him/herself
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
They are copyrighted by Namco/respective game posessor. So they can be attributed as they "posess" it. It's not about who actually mapped it. It's about who as the copyright/posession/rights on it. And you should only submit/get stuff ranked, that you are actually "posessing" and have the copyrights of (at least in the majority of the package).
Loctav
Popcorn Fairy
4,496 posts
Joined February 2009
Loctav
This thread is abandoned and the rule won't change.
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