Guest
home
beatmaps
rankings
community
store
help
forum
  1. Forums
  2. Beatmaps
  3. Mapping Discussion
  4. Ranking Criteria
  5. Finalized/Denied Amendments

[Proposal - Catch] Allow dashes over 250ms before higher-snapped hyperdashes in Platters

posted
Total Posts
11
Phob
88 posts
Joined February 2015
Topic Starter
Phob
I've noticed that the rules of higher-snapped hyperdashes in platters are significantly less forgiving than basic hyperdashes, despite the difference between them not being that big. Strict rules for any patterns after higher-snapped hyperdashes are absolutely reasonable, however applying the same rule for the patterns before higher-snapped hyperdashes could be too strict and unnecessary.

The main challenge of higher-snapped hyperdashes, which is more precise timing of when to release dash or change direction, comes after their destination. Anything before the hyperdash doesn't require nearly as much precision, so disallowing any dashes before them could be too restrictive.
Keeping the rule in its current state may cause problems in properly emphasizing more intense sections of the song and keeping consistent difficulty throughout the map.

Giving the player enough time without direction changes for preparation would make enough leniency to allow the usage of dashes in this case.

The proposal would affect this rule:

Basic hyperdashes must not be used more than two times between consecutive fruits. If higher-snapped hyperdashes are used, they must be used singularly (not in conjunction with other hyperdashes or dashes)

My suggested change would be:

Basic hyperdashes must not be used more than two times between consecutive fruits. If higher-snapped hyperdashes are used, they must not be used in conjunction with other hyperdashes, followed by any dashes or preceded by dashes with a gap lower than 250ms.

Alternatively, splitting this rule into two would also be a good option to avoid unnecessary clutter:

Basic hyperdashes must not be used more than two times between consecutive fruits.
Higher-snapped hyperdashes must not be used in conjunction with other hyperdashes, followed by any dashes or preceded by dashes with a gap lower than 250ms.
Benita
604 posts
Joined February 2014
Benita
Maybe this is a but offtopic but I just wanna add that the current rule is a bit confusing for people, at least from my understanding.

I've had people post "problems" on my maps saying basic dashes into a basic hyperdash is disallowed and unrankable, but the way I see it, this only applies to higher snapped hyperdashes?

I think the fact that both "basic hyperdashes and "higher snapped hyperdashes" are in the same "rule" makes it confusing to people what's allowed and what's not.

Because of this, I would vouch for splitting the rule regardless if your proposal goes through or not.

In regards to your proposal, I don't really agree to buffing Platters. Platters and Rains are getting harder and harder and allowing this will only contribute to this.

Even so, adding another ms value will just make the RC even more clunky and overcomplicated, considering people are already struggling with understanding it. (if anyone gonna bitch "just learn how to read", remember not everyone here are native speakers)
Secre
osu!catch Champion / Nomination Assessment Team
402 posts
Joined January 2013
Secre
Agree with benita in both regards, I think splitting this RC rule into 2 seperate things would actually be a nice addition though if we dont change anything with the actual RC from this though (same applies to other difficulties where this is a thing)

I think platters are in a perfectly fine spot right now, I ran a twitter poll yesterday aswell https://twitter.com/SecreLol/status/1330922271653900291 which shows a majority of people agree that platters are normal right now, with only a few amount of people thinking they are too easy, more infact think they are too hard. Not to mention that my twitter has a base of more experienced players, and if these more experienced players think that platters are normal/slightly too hard, new players would probably think that they are even harder than that.
Phob
88 posts
Joined February 2015
Topic Starter
Phob

Benita wrote:

In regards to your proposal, I don't really agree to buffing Platters. Platters and Rains are getting harder and harder and allowing this will only contribute to this.
The proposal is rather for creating balance and consistency between rules, as well as in the map itself, than for buffing platters even more. As I mentioned in the original post, rules regarding patterns adjacent to higher-snapped hdashes are much more restrictive than rules regarding basic hdashes and this change could help a lot with lowering that gap, while keeping the overall difficulty of platters as close as possible to the current one.

Allowing minor dashes before higher-snapped hdashes would be a great benefit for representing the music in many cases. I am aware that full dashes in before such hdashes could be a bit questionable, however, putting specific distances in the rule could lead to ambiguities and very hard to check unrankables. Basic dash distance leniency would apply here just like everywhere else, it would be judged by BNs and the mappers themselves.

Benita wrote:

Even so, adding another ms value will just make the RC even more clunky and overcomplicated, considering people are already struggling with understanding it
I disagree. A specific ms value is pretty easy to understand, it's definitely more straight forward than terms like "basic" or "higher-snapped" and doesn't need any additional referencing to the glossary or other rules.
Nokashi
304 posts
Joined December 2014
Nokashi
I Think Platters are in a good spot right now and I consider myself to be rather conservative at this topic. The main gameplay focus of platters is HDashing, platter control after HDashing and before it, I would rather have those used singularly so as the player always has only one thing to focus on when approaching an HDash pattern. Adding a dash before an HDash, even if its a lenient one, would add one more mechanic to pair the HDash with.

Due to the 250ms gap, most patterns will also incorporate antiflow since there cant be a 250ms gap dash and an HDash on the same linear direction. I would not promote this pattern to be used consistently on a platter.
Greaper
Nomination Assessment Team
213 posts
Joined February 2013
Greaper
After reading through everyone their comments, it seems that nobody really agrees with allowing 250ms dashes before a higher-snapped hyperdash in Platters. That being said, the amount of confusing would be much higher since, as is stated above, the RC is getting much and much more complex.

We are fine with splitting the Platter rule, I suggest splitting them as followed:
  1. Basic hyperdashes must not be used more than two times between consecutive fruits.
  2. Higher-snapped hyperdashes must not be used in conjunction with any kind of dash or differently snapped hyperdash.
I'll leave this proposal open for 24~ hours, if you disagree with this change then please state this before the time runs out. I will create a PR to the wiki after this time period.
Nelly
Beatmap Nominator
1,533 posts
Joined August 2014
Nelly
I personally disagree with this. That change would basically make Platters harder in general with the amount of dashes in a row. Current state of Platters now is already allowing us to make something hard patterns enough.
Nokashi
304 posts
Joined December 2014
Nokashi
I agree that we can split the rules, would be more cohesive.
Phob
88 posts
Joined February 2015
Topic Starter
Phob
Since we're going this way with the proposal, I'd suggest splitting similar points in the RC as well, like the Rain rule:

Basic hyperdashes must not be used more than four times between consecutive fruits. If higher-snapped hyperdashes are used, they must not be used in conjunction with other hyperdashes or higher-snapped dashes.

to

Basic hyperdashes must not be used more than four times between consecutive fruits.

Higher-snapped hyperdashes must not be used in conjunction with other hyperdashes or higher-snapped dashes.
Spectator
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
1,843 posts
Joined February 2011
Spectator
The PR for wiki has been created for the split of rules, for both Platters and Rains.
See https://github.com/ppy/osu-wiki/pull/4722

Platter
- Basic dashes must not be used more than four times between consecutive fruits.
- Higher-snapped hyperdashes must not be used in conjunction with any other dashes or hyperdashes.

Rain
- Basic hyperdashes must not be used more than four times between consecutive fruits.
- Higher-snapped hyperdashes must not be used in conjunction with higher-snapped dashes or any other hyperdashes.
Last edited by Spectator , edited 1 time in total.
Greaper
Nomination Assessment Team
213 posts
Joined February 2013
Greaper
Changes are merged, moved to finalized
Please sign in to reply.

New reply

0
1 / 11