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Revert the CTB movement formula change (revived) [invalid]

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22
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +16
Drafura
osu! Alumni
2,620 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
Drafura
Originally locked here : t/113663

So weeks have passed and the hypers still feels dizzy. The ryuuta is going too far on each hyper. Also from testing from old to new version many times now I can say that online scores for most harderst maps are totally false now. The same things are not playable like they was the gameplay changed too much to compare old scores to new scores.

Please revert to the old formula, ctb is getting really borring now... I mean that playing really hard maps with or without mods is too hard now, before the update they was fun to play. Please give back the fun to ctb.
VelperK
1,172 posts
Joined May 2010
VelperK
I agree, the old system was better and there are a lot of unnecesary hyperdashes now.
Touche
557 posts
Joined May 2012
Touche
Disapproving, i think the new system is better :3
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF

peppy wrote:

Please avoid calling changes "stupid" and instead provide specific cases which you believe to be less favourable than previously.
The extra hyperdashes are a known bug and have a thread about them in low priority. I'll leave this topic open for the moment, but I really don't see it going anywhere productive.
Drafura
osu! Alumni
2,620 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
Drafura
I don't understand your quote... I'm not calling anything or anyone stupid... I'm just saying the new system makes fun maps frustrating and borring. And imo this isn't a purpose of a game. I don't really care about rankings. I just want to have fun when I play a game.
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF
How so? Are certain patterns hard or frustrating to catch? Are the overall movements less "fun"?
Drafura
osu! Alumni
2,620 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
Drafura
No the overall mouvement make certain patterns too hard on extreme gameplay. By extreme gameplay I'm talking about for example addding DT on an already really hard map. This kind of gameplay doesn't allways focus on Fcing maps it's most a fun thing than any other thing, and actually these kind of plays are barely impossible to even clear cause hypers leads your ryuuta way too far away from where he's supposed to be. When I play other maps... They was already borring in my eyes if it wasn't a ctb diff specific, but now it's way more borring due to the extra hypers.

So I'm not taking fun on playing std converted to ctb, and playing ctb diff specific or adding mods on crazy converted std maps make the game frustrating cause you'll barely clear the map if you have luck on some pattern, I mean you read the patterns but it requires way too much accuarcy on mouvements and timing that you'll fail 90% times. And i'm talking about maps I used to fail 10% times before updates.

edit : ofc other reasons about mapping are still valid : p/2048691
Last edited by Drafura , edited 2 times in total.
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF
You're one of the few I've seen who still complain after the most recent update. It's not any harder now, it's just different - perhaps your muscle memory from the pre-change hyperdashes is just betraying you and making it harder for you to adapt than for most people.
Drafura
osu! Alumni
2,620 posts
Joined April 2010
Topic Starter
Drafura
When the first attempt of fixing bug jump cames out on test build, I tested it, it was pretty nice maybe a lot of hypers were generated and sliders was buggy but maps like vox up was likely FCable. It was using the old mouvement on hypers. With this update vox up is likely very hard to even clear. I don't think it's about muscle memory or so... It's about the ryuuta control.

Anyway the thread is here if people wants or doesn't wants this happend they're free to post.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami
I can't play recently (4 months), but I liked the previous things. Maybe some fruit was hard to catch or even impossible, BUT that just made CtB fun to play. TAG4s were hard but few ppl fc'd them and got so many skills after that (like VelperK, and even I trained on them), if this update make them easy or even flustrating to play, then I don't want it. Probably I will be able to play, but I don't think the game must cause me rage then close the whole window.
DontTalkwithMir
DontTalkwithMir
I can only agree with this.
I see way to many hyperdashes now plus the movement feels kinda..weird (yes I played for some time to tell this by now).
There are not just "musclememory" and stuff, look around, many people don't adapt to it completely because it's not that easy to control especially with those weird hyperdashes on short range.
In the past I had a lot of fun with ctb (even with bugjumps) but now...it's not that enjoyable anymore as it was. And it's not me alone, as you can tell.
If you check the Multiplayer rooms for ctb, you won't find that much anymore because it lacks of active people, even #ctb is quite.
For me..if I could choose between these two, I would take the old one. (or a mix old formula+pixeljump fix)
VelperK
1,172 posts
Joined May 2010
VelperK
peppy is not going to do this anyways, so why do you even care in writing.
ZHSteven
osu! Alumni
1,012 posts
Joined July 2009
ZHSteven
Hey guys, still remember the time when hyperdash was introduced in 2009?

all most all the skillful player against it(including me), and send a lot of request to our boss.
But, you know, nothing changed. So we lose a great amount of wonderful players.

I am pretty sure this time things won't go another way. except... you know.

If the resistant(?) is hopeless, why not give up and enjoy it?

anyway, take my support.
Saten
Global Moderator
3,866 posts
Joined August 2010
Saten
A toggle (yeah a toggle) switching between the 3 different behaviours so you can find what's most comfortable to you.

It's like changing input device or mouse sensetivity if it were osu!standard for example.


I would really like to try how it was before the hyperfruits were introduced.
peppy
19,316 posts
Here since the beginning
peppy
I spent almost three weeks perfecting the new setup, with many testers and a lot of investigation. I believe the current behaviour is still optimal. Please try and get used to it. A few facts:

* There are not "too many" hyperdashes. They are now just created in all cases they are required.
* The actual behaviour is only slightly different, and should not be as noticeable as you are making it seem. The only reasoning I can think of is CtB-specific maps which exploited the hyperdash limitations to make the hardest possible difficulty level pre-changes. This is understandable, but why not just make new maps which correctly reach the hardest difficulty without making it impossible for some combinations of game settings / sequential jumps?

I don't believe I will be making any changes to the algorithm unless someone does an equally comprehensive study on particular cases which are less optimal than they could be (see my blog for part of what I looked into, to get an idea of what you need to provide). I have received equal amounts of positive feedback on the changes, and therefore do not feel the need to make further changes for the foreseeable future.

Not going to deny this thread, but you have my pretty-final answer (which I've already stated a few times before in in-game chat, and many of the people above are aware of this).
Seph
Seph
I like it how it is now, sure its pretty hard to cope to the change, but I just think of it like as a new challenge.

Step up your game everyone.
Kitokofox
osu! Alumni
455 posts
Joined August 2012
Kitokofox
To be honest, I think the hyperdashes work just fine. I played a #Q map in front of VelperK yesterday (Those maps are littered with hyperdashes) and I did just fine, in fact I caught hypers more often than normal fruits, which is pretty hilarious.

I did fine with hypers before the first update to them, and I'm fine with them now.

There is one teensy bug left to squash, though it's not very important; Extremely fast hyperdashes make the catcher dash in the opposite direction instantly (And often offscreen)
eldnl
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
2,930 posts
Joined March 2010
eldnl
hyperdash so hard
Last edited by eldnl , edited 1 time in total.
Kurokami
osu! Alumni
4,024 posts
Joined February 2010
Kurokami
I recently played a bit and now I able to post with experience. So, even after my 4 months hiatus I was able to play Big Black which wasn't possible for me until now. The hyperdashes feels a bit weird and I mostly fail there (on every approved map), but I think thats just because of me and my hiatus. Anyways I think this new movement isn't that bad as a few ppl saying.
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF
If someone can find a pattern or condition where the new hyperdashes control less intuitively, post it here and tell us WHY it's less intuitive (preferably recording it and slowing down the video so you can analyze frame by frame and tell why it feels awkward.)

Until that happens, I'm going to mark this thread invalid. Feel free to bump it if you look into hyperdashes in such a detailed way, and I'll untag and revive it.
XEPCOH
529 posts
Joined February 2011
XEPCOH
Ok, if this, let's post here maps (diffs) which are nearly impossible to fc/ss/pass (even this)
You should post it with this algorithm:
1. Name and link of the WHOLE map.
2. Link of the nearly impossible moment (separate diff).
3. Reason to be posted:
a) what happens with ryuuta;
b) fruit(s) which can't be caught;
c) requests to do.
4. Video and screenshots(if you want so much).
5. Your best result (post screenshot) and number of tries to do it.
6. Your comments (uncompulsory)

Ok, I Start.
1. http://osu.ppy.sh/s/57255 Renard - Rainbow Dash Likes Girls (Stay Gay Pony Girl)
2. http://puu.sh/2cxYc - link of 2 moments
3. Begin with 1st:
a) after hyperjump fruit is not in the edge of the ryuuta, it's mostly in the middle so then we jump to the right and in 99% causes (for noobs) you have a miss;
b) 22nd fruit;
c) change the behaviour of the hyperdash to the previous.
Now 2nd situation:
a) same, you can't catch the fruit with this behaviour;
b) 8th fruit;
c) as I said earlier.
4. screens will be added later due to the puush problem
5. SS'd both from the 5-7th try
6. too difficult for beginners and experienced players D :
VelperK
1,172 posts
Joined May 2010
VelperK
I think peppy said something like it's ok if it's almost impossible to catch that kind of fruits, we had to give up something in exchange.
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