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[proposal] disallow duplicate tags in maps

posted
Total Posts
18
Dialect
1,535 posts
Joined May 2018
Topic Starter
Dialect
i don't really see why people add duplicate tags. i feel like they're just really unnecessary, and tags are to be used to find something (example: if an anime name is in kanji, no one is going to be able to find it unless you have a japanese keyboard and remember japanese)

i brought this up all of a sudden after looking at this specific comment.

now, i get that they don't really increase filesize that much, but if we have maps like this for example have the tags duplicated like 4-5 times, then i see it as a waste of time.

well, in sinnoh's case, this was a gimmick most likely, to fit the vibe of the song.

i am for disallowing duplicate tags, but i know someone will bring up that "no one sees the tags." yes, but at the same time, it's still a really unnecessary option to add duplicate stuff in the tags.

another problem that could arise with duplicate tags is subtleness. for this song, this is the opening to tamako market, and if i were to update the metadata (suzuki voices tamako), then i could theoretically not add tamako market to the tags, because the song title is "Dramatic Market Ride." obviously, no one will take notice to that, so that could be another problem with disallowing duplicate tags.

i kind of wanna see what you guys think of this tho. duplicate tags imo is really just a waste of time, and doesn't help at all when you search up maps.
honne
155 posts
Joined February 2014
honne
this proposal seems like a waste of time to put in place, you would think it would have been in place but it's kind of redundant.

There's also the fact that it doesn't impact anything so it's fine as is.

in short it doesn't matter.
Serizawa Haruki
1,696 posts
Joined June 2015
Serizawa Haruki
I wouldn't really say it doesn't matter because on the beatmap page only some of the tags are visible and using duplicate tags in the beginning would hide other important tags. The only reason to use duplicate tags is if they are part of a longer string, for example album names which repeat a word more than once, or if a word is included in multiple strings.
Dialect
1,535 posts
Joined May 2018
Topic Starter
Dialect
^

but then a problem would be if we did disallow tags, i think it'd be a bit harder to distinguish what's a duplicate because some things are subtle. like the tamako market example. i do think that mappers need to use tags wisely, because tags are only there to find an easier way to search up the song (or the mapper)
Serizawa Haruki
1,696 posts
Joined June 2015
Serizawa Haruki
The example you mentioned is different because it has to do with adding words to the tags that are already included in other metadata fields (which is not a problem in most cases). I thought this proposal is about adding a tag more than once, regardless of what is written in the artist/title/source field. I don't think there is much ambiguity regarding this, it's usually clear if something is part of a longer name and therefore not a duplicate.
Last edited by Serizawa Haruki , edited 1 time in total.
Dialect
1,535 posts
Joined May 2018
Topic Starter
Dialect

Serizawa Haruki wrote:

The example you mentioned is different because it has to do with adding words to the tags that are already included in other metadata fields (which is not a problem in most cases). I thought this proposal is about adding a tag more than once, regardless of what is written in the artist/title/source field. I don't think there is much ambiguity regarding this, it's usually clear if something is part of a longer name and therefore not a duplicate.
i mean modders tell the mapper to not include the song title + artist in the tags, so i feel like mappers would be for this proposal. although, i wanna see what other people think
DeletedUser_6709840
DeletedUser_6709840
This proposal IS a waste of time. Adding a rule just to keep people from adding duplicate tags doesn't affect gameplay or even filesize. If anything, it would be a GUIDELINE just to encourage people to keep their tags organized but it's not needed to be obligated.
Dialect
1,535 posts
Joined May 2018
Topic Starter
Dialect

Wei Wuxian wrote:

This proposal IS a waste of time. Adding a rule just to keep people from adding duplicate tags doesn't affect gameplay or even filesize. If anything, it would be a GUIDELINE just to encourage people to keep their tags organized but it's not needed to be obligated.
then a guideline then?
Serizawa Haruki
1,696 posts
Joined June 2015
Serizawa Haruki
Yes, it should be a guideline if anything, but keep in mind that guidelines are not recommendations. They are rules than can be broken under certain circumstances if a proper explanation is given.
clayton
1,928 posts
Joined November 2013
clayton
I'd rather keep duplicates where they are ordered significantly to keep things simple and clear for anyone trying to parse data out of maps' tags, for example if lots of titles are referenced and "the" or "and" comes up a bunch of times, or the tamako market example in OP

the only "problem" with duplicates I can see in Ranked is with dumb cases like beatmapsets/848144 where all of the involved BNs were just joking around. it'd never be a filesize issue, tags cap at 4kB

my opinion is this is not important enough and not thoughtful enough of tag usage to include in RC
Dialect
1,535 posts
Joined May 2018
Topic Starter
Dialect

clayton wrote:

I'd rather keep duplicates where they are ordered significantly to keep things simple and clear for anyone trying to parse data out of maps' tags, for example if lots of titles are referenced and "the" or "and" comes up a bunch of times, or the tamako market example in OP

the only "problem" with duplicates I can see in Ranked is with dumb cases like beatmapsets/848144 where all of the involved BNs were just joking around. it'd never be a filesize issue, tags cap at 4kB

my opinion is this is not important enough and not thoughtful enough of tag usage to include in RC
it's sort of like how modders already tell the mapper to remove the song title, artist, and your own name from the tags. why are those considered unrankable, but other duplicate tags aren't?
Serizawa Haruki
1,696 posts
Joined June 2015
Serizawa Haruki
That's not unrankable, modders just point it out because it's useless to have those in the tags.
Dialect
1,535 posts
Joined May 2018
Topic Starter
Dialect
ig

looking back on it, i don't understand somewhat. modders already try to point out duplicate tags. i think it'd be a good option to disallow duplicate tags for the sake of simplicity
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat

Li Syaoran wrote:

i brought this up all of a sudden after looking at this specific comment.
what were the tags here? i assume it was a joke tag copy/pasted a bunch, but im guessing even if the tag weren't copy/pasted, it would be dumb and not worth including in tags

generally tags should be used for things that help a player find the map. duplicates and repeats of host/artist/title don't really help with that, so they can likely always be removed, but i also understand the use explained community/forums/posts/7606699 so i dont think restricting *all* duplicates is necessary

beatmapsets/848144 shouldnt have happened
Dialect
1,535 posts
Joined May 2018
Topic Starter
Dialect

pishifat wrote:

generally tags should be used for things that help a player find the map. duplicates and repeats of host/artist/title don't really help with that, so they can likely always be removed, but i also understand the use explained community/forums/posts/7606699 so i dont think restricting *all* duplicates is necessary

beatmapsets/848144 shouldnt have happened
well i think in general there should be some more rules/guidelines placed on tags in maps, for example:

"Can't Defeat Airman" would need to have "cant" in the tags, as players really want to be able to type "cant defeat airman" instead of "can't defeat airman"

but back on topic again, it'll be really hard to restrict all duplicate tags. people will still put "tamako market" in the tags despite the fact you theoretically don't need to (assuming you mapped the opening). but i think we could start a bit by trying to prevent stuff like platinum groove, which purposely has duplicate tags for the sake of a gimmick
Noffy
Nomination Assessment Team
1,685 posts
Joined April 2012
Noffy
Contractions in metadata being in tags with apostrophes removed have been recommended in RC for a long time already.

As for the duplication issue, there's also the fact that the website allows searching specific phrases using "phrass here" quote searching. This includes tag strings, and tags need to be in a matching order for that to work. This is why removing duplicate words from different phrases in the tags is not good practice, despite how often modders suggest otherwise (seriously if someone reading this does that, please stop).

Feels like other dumb cases is similar to community/forums/topics/1121195 where it is dumb but not very worthwhile to make rules/guidelines around as duplicated tags affect very little negatively.
Last edited by Noffy , edited 2 times in total.
TypicalStep
2 posts
Joined September 2019
TypicalStep
I dont think it will impact things much but I think it would work well.
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat

Noffy wrote:

As for the duplication issue, there's also the fact that the website allows searching specific phrases using "phrass here" quote searching. This includes tag strings, and tags need to be in a matching order for that to work. This is why removing duplicate words from different phrases in the tags is not good practice, despite how often modders suggest otherwise (seriously if someone reading this does that, please stop).
i think this is enough reason to allow duplicate tags honestly

for cases when people are abusing the freedom, they can be dealt with in modding, but they dont really affect anything so it's not something we need the rc to be super restrictive about

Li Syaoran wrote:

well i think in general there should be some more rules/guidelines placed on tags in maps, for example:

"Can't Defeat Airman" would need to have "cant" in the tags, as players really want to be able to type "cant defeat airman" instead of "can't defeat airman"
this rule on the rc
Tags should be added for related artists, alternate names for the artist, title, or source, contractions in any part of the metadata with the apostrophe removed, and whatever else may aid a player in finding the mapset.
is where anything like this would be added. if you have suggestions on things to specify in it, make a thread and we'll talk about it!
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