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Why should I try ranking maps if BNs won't get it to rank?

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Topic Starter
abraker
Clickbait title, but legit question that goes hand-in-hand with another question at the end. Also this touches all gamemodes, I just main mania, that's why you see mania screenshot.

As a high ranking player I have no hope rank will give me maps of any worth. Maps of worth to me are ones that challenge my skills and ones that contain interesting or uncommon concepts in mapping. Many of those maps are found in loved, so as a player I have a place somewhere else I can look. As a player/semi-mapper in desire to make ranked more worthy, however, I find myself at odds. I depend on ranked more than loved for maps due to the rate new maps come out, but there is hardly any diversity in ranked. So I am willing to make maps of my own for ranked, but I find that such maps would not be considered ranked material.

So imagine you, a mapper, are going to try ranking a map. There are certain things you want to do in your own style. Granted you need to follow the rules, but it may break guidelines. That should not be an issue if you can make a compelling argument supporting patterns that break those guidelines. Unfortunately you also happen to be bad at making compelling arguments. Hiring someone to argue for you is a ridiculous idea, so you don't.. Well knowing this you can still try, but it will likely be all wasted effort. So you should map for fun instead, right? Let your map rot in the graveyard, who cares? Oh, but the other you, a fellow player, probably cares! You are also a player that wishes one of your favorite unranked maps became ranked. Yet it won't because that other mapper has no hope of getting that map ranked for same reasons you did not.

As for me, I have my own quirky style I do. It's my thing. It's what makes my maps identify as my maps. It's not the best mapping, but it is different. I know it won't get ranked, or at least I believe it won't without changes. I'm not willing to make those changes though, because that removes what makes it different and unique to me. I suppose that goes for many other mappers too. If you are left with mappers who will change patterns, it's to no surprise ranked feels bland a lot of times.

To give an example, sometimes you can't even make patterns like these without being questioned. Depends what BN comes around favoring or despising the patterns. For context these are progressively decreasing gaps mapped onto a piano roll that decreases in pitch. Makes perfect sense to me. Hard? Yes. But that's the fun of it! Featured in this map.



Looking at some recent cases not just in mania, but in std as well, [1], [2], it's really REALLY demoralizing and frustrating to see mappers blocked for various trivial reasons. There is no point in trying to punch concrete if you are going to break your hand in the process and maybe crack it slightly. So this is more of a plea than anything. Can someone restore my hope in ranked or is it as doomed to be as same as it always has been?
Evening
Just an add-on question, I would like to ask why would you rank a map or ask someone to rank a map if you could've played it in pending/graveyard?

I personally don't mind playing the map anywhere as long as I can download it haha
Laxxer
The hitsounding problem is important because hitsounding gives the player direct feedback and having a section woih barely any hitsounds accomplishes this. Though yeah, the Mamma mia veto is stupid.

I cant speak for mania but there are already quite a few unique maps that are being ranked in standard. These are by mappers like UndeadCapulet/Hailie.

Basically, as long as your map is fundamentally OK you can rank it in standard. There are some people who are stuck in their old ways but there are plenty of BNs/NAT who actually prefer ranking non-traditional maps.

As a mapper you should be able to defend your map if you can make it. If you are having a hard time making compelling arguments for your beatmap then it is likely your map is fundamentally flawed. I’m sure this applies to other game modes as well.
Topic Starter
abraker
To address Evening's question

Evening wrote:

I would like to ask why would you rank a map or ask someone to rank a map if you could've played it in pending/graveyard?
Personally I would like to see leaderboards on maps I play. I like trying to snipe my friends' and rivals' scores on the leaderboards. I know you can alternatively do that by posting screenshots and such, but that's too cumbersome to manage. Loved has many maps that I regularly play, but there are so many more that it lacks. It doesn't have to be specifically those either. I constantly find new maps in pending/graveyard that are pretty interesting or challanging. The rate at which loved maps put out maps is rather slow unfortunately. I also believe ranked has more potential if it can somehow be tweaked to allow more diversity.

After talking with Ashton at length, it came down to the following. There are many things I disagree how ranked does on a fundamental level that may never be changed. Often the idea of a new category accommodating the conditions needed for diversity in maps came up. The further the exchange went the more I came to the disappointing realization that ranked will never be what I imagine it can be. This point drives it home:

Ashton wrote:

Then it is nobodies fault except the mappers if they don’t wish to put in enough effort to rank their beatmaps or give up because a BN disagrees with them.
Which makes it very unfavorable to those who think it is silly to argue with someone over why their map belongs in ranked. That's where it leads to a catch-22: Can't have interesting maps without the mappers that make quirky/challenging patterns who also don't want to argue for their map, but those certain mappers will also be stopped from getting their maps ranked because of the quirky/challenging patterns and they need to argue for their map. Unless something changes in ranked to incentivize those mappers, that pretty much tells me there is no hope for ranked.

I can still rank maps if I wanted to. They would be bland simple maps, but then I become the symptom of the problem. Doing anything too complex or quirky is gonna make me frustrated trying to justify patterns again, and question why I am wasting my time with trying to rank something. I am not asking for there to be no rules, but I want to believe there is a solution. Something that might incentivize me and other mappers to try ranking maps that would make ranked more diverse.
Chiru-kun
after looking at the this post for the second time...

Evening wrote:

Just an add-on question, I would like to ask why would you rank a map or ask someone to rank a map if you could've played it in pending/graveyard?
some 2 thoughts for this point:
1) we as momentary mappers in a simple game would like to leave something permanent behind. graveyard maps don't give that feeling to everybody, unfortunately. but surely, there are people who are satisfied with their graveyard maps, as the mappers side of the person abraker mentioned. this feels really philosophical, but it's true in general, not only with circles. the feeling and associated goal is just different.
2)in addition to that permanence feeling, graveyard doesn't get noticed unless you're some amazing person in osu outside of mapping.

and tbh in general:

Ashton wrote:

Then it is nobodies fault except the mappers if they don’t wish to put in enough effort to rank their beatmaps or give up because a BN disagrees with them.

abraker wrote:

I can still rank maps if I wanted to. They would be bland simple maps, but then I become the symptom of the problem.
this feels like the whole point of being a mapper. the challenge from when you start as a new mapper, and how BNs are against your terrible first-map jumble. and when you start ranking, they're really bland. that's the whole point of a mapper's journey, and how he should develop. he's gonna have to push through those ideas once he's proven his competence and seriousness. again, really philosophical imo but it goes so, i think.
got the sentiment from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBPYemKlTic
quiz-chan_DELETED
are we talking about maps with 'unique styles' not getting a chance at being ranked

because i'd like to weigh in.
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