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Genre and Language settings

posted
Total Posts
19
-Mo-
Nomination Assessment Team
957 posts
Joined December 2012
Topic Starter
-Mo-
btw I'm not talking about whether we should keep these in tags or not. That can be talked about elsewhere.

The mapper should be able to set Genre and Language settings for their own unranked beatmaps now. We should adjust the RC so that all mappers should have these set appropriately before ranking.

Metadata Rules wrote:

Genre and Language must be set accurately on the beatmap page.


Probably wise for us to establish what each genre actually means, and also what to do if a song falls under more than one genre (e.g. has 50:50 English and Japanese).
Last edited by -Mo- , edited 3 times in total.
celerih
617 posts
Joined July 2014
celerih
Considering it can be changed even when the beatmap is nominated (when it has 1 nom) and doesn't require updating the map to be changed I'm not sure exactly how it should be treated as part of the RC.

Like if it's set wrong do u pop the map? Do u dq so they can fix it instead of just having an NAT change it in 3s. It would be a non issue if it could be changed by BNs in qualified so QAH checks would do it (since they take little time) but here it's a bit weird
Xinnoh
Elite Mapper
1,962 posts
Joined April 2014
Xinnoh
Since the large majority of 50/50 songs are English/Japanese, I feel those should just be defaulted to Japanese. English artists (almost) never use Japanese in their songs, Japanese artists do use English in their songs by a significantly larger margin.
like, have you ever heard a half eng/jp song outside of japanese circles.

Other languages can be handled case by case since they are far more uncommon.

I think it would be better rather than having more wack definitions (eg novelty = memes and vocaloid), to just get peppy to add more genres .-.
-Mo-
Nomination Assessment Team
957 posts
Joined December 2012
Topic Starter
-Mo-

celerih wrote:

Considering it can be changed even when the beatmap is nominated (when it has 1 nom) and doesn't require updating the map to be changed I'm not sure exactly how it should be treated as part of the RC.

Like if it's set wrong do u pop the map? Do u dq so they can fix it instead of just having an NAT change it in 3s. It would be a non issue if it could be changed by BNs in qualified so QAH checks would do it (since they take little time) but here it's a bit weird


If we can change it during qualified then no need to DQ, but we should really get mappers to do these themselves before ranking because you've seen what happens when it's only limited to people with website perms. BN rules could probably be updated to to make this rule an exception to DQ on sight.
Crissa
850 posts
Joined December 2014
Crissa
Would this be a place to resolve why we use Novelty as a genre for vocaloid maps? cuz i never knew why, it's just something that's been like that for a long time
Kibbleru
osu! Alumni
5,846 posts
Joined August 2013
Kibbleru

celerih wrote:

Considering it can be changed even when the beatmap is nominated (when it has 1 nom) and doesn't require updating the map to be changed I'm not sure exactly how it should be treated as part of the RC.

Like if it's set wrong do u pop the map? Do u dq so they can fix it instead of just having an NAT change it in 3s. It would be a non issue if it could be changed by BNs in qualified so QAH checks would do it (since they take little time) but here it's a bit weird


this ^

Crissa wrote:

Would this be a place to resolve why we use Novelty as a genre for vocaloid maps? cuz i never knew why, it's just something that's been like that for a long time


tbh, i've always just defaulted to novelty whenever i didn't know the genre but after googling it.

"A novelty song is a comical or nonsensical song, performed principally for its comical effect. ... Novelty songs are often a parody or humor song, and may apply to a current event such as a holiday or a fad such as a dance or TV programme."

rofl? i've been labeling most non anime japanese songs as a nonsensical parody? lol
Last edited by Kibbleru , edited 1 time in total.
clayton
1,928 posts
Joined November 2013
clayton
community/forums/topics/1012477 can be merged into here
-Mo-
Nomination Assessment Team
957 posts
Joined December 2012
Topic Starter
-Mo-

clayton wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/topics/1012477 can be merged into here

I want to avoid discussion about the written tags specifically for this though. This topic should be for setting the actual drop down genre/language things.
clayton
1,928 posts
Joined November 2013
clayton
oh woops I totally missed your edit to OP. my bad

for celerih's thing I don't see the issue in changing permissions there.
- make BNs able to change during qualified
- disallow mapset owner to change when there are nominations

?
Last edited by clayton , edited 1 time in total.
-Keitaro
1,023 posts
Joined October 2013
-Keitaro
I would go only with "BNs can change genre and lang" tbh, since people do mistakes on setting things and I dont think limiting changes starts during 1st nomination. So I think we can just easily let the BNs and QAH do their job upon checking the maps.

This removes the hassle for NAT to set genre and lang where mapper and BNs forgot about it, and wouldn't need any unnecessary dq to put lang and genre.
-Mo-
Nomination Assessment Team
957 posts
Joined December 2012
Topic Starter
-Mo-
BNs setting during qualified sounds good to me. Just as long as they can't change after ranked since we currently have no way of tracking on case people decide to be silly with it.
Serizawa Haruki
1,696 posts
Joined June 2015
Serizawa Haruki
It would be important to define each genre so that misunderstandings can be avoided, for example novelty as stated above, but all the other ones too.
Also, it would be worth adding a sentence about cases where no genre fits, I think "other" should be used then. The same goes for the language of course.
tatatat
923 posts
Joined March 2015
tatatat
I think it should just be a BN rule that they must set the genre of a map they nominate before ranked.

If they dont... slap them?
MBomb
MBomb
@tatatat: BNs currently can't do that, that's the problem, only the mapper and NATs can.
clayton
1,928 posts
Joined November 2013
clayton
will look into the web change soon, if nobody gets to it before me
-Mo-
Nomination Assessment Team
957 posts
Joined December 2012
Topic Starter
-Mo-
We plan to have a brain storming session for new genres in #modding for the 11th so we could have a chance to flesh this out there too.
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat

-Mo- wrote:

We plan to have a brain storming session for new genres in #modding for the 11th so we could have a chance to flesh this out there too.
doesn't look like much is happening with the proposal behind this meeting, so let's resolve this under shorter term expectations

BNs should be able to set genre/language soon as per https://github.com/ppy/osu-web/pull/6020

when that happens, we should expect a map's language and genre settings to be set before the map is qualified (mapper or either of the BNs can handle it)

while this is applicable to the ranking criteria because it's about soon-to-be-ranked maps, it wouldn't really be suited for that because maps wouldn't need to be unranked to set genre/lang. a BN rule is probably better

i see some people concerned about songs with multiple genres/languages, but i dont think we need to be super strict about that. people can choose whatever they think is most appropriate and if people disagree, it can be changed later -- even while qualified/ranked.

linking to the genre/langauge settings page should be enough to explain how genres are applied (specifically novelty for vocaloid)

possible BN rule:
Do not nominate a beatmapset whose Genre and Langauge are `Unspecified` and `Other` respectively. Songs with multiple genres or languages should prioritize the more frequently heard option.

ok turns out i misread the pr and none of this is necessary
once web permissions are changed this will be a nonissue
Last edited by pishifat , edited 1 time in total.
clayton
1,928 posts
Joined November 2013
clayton
permission are change
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
i think we're done here
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