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[Proposal-mania] remove guideline regarding chords in 1/4 streams for hard diffs

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Scotty

rc wrote:

Chords within 1/4 streams should be used sparingly. The density of these patterns is often too difficult
for players of this skill level.


whilst the intent behind this is to prevent from having high density stream patterns in hard diffs, this
guideline is rarely enforced due to it not applying to a large number of situations.

difficulty of 1/4 stream patterns is dependant on multiple factors other than frequency of chords such as length and column placements. due to this, light jumpstream and even some denser jumpstreams can be considered acceptable in hard diffs despite having a frequent use of chords. once you factor in higher keymodes this guideline becomes even less relevant as there is more room to use chords without negatively impacting gameplay.

another issue is the use of the word 'sparingly'. this adds a layer of ambiguity as there isn't a clear idea as to what frequency of chords would be considered acceptable.

proposed solution:

remove the guideline. this resolves all of the problems stated above and mostly leaves things up to
mappers/modders to judge stream patterns.

another option is to reword the guideline with a more specific chord frequency that would scale according to bpm. i personally wouldn't recommend this as this only resolves the issues of clarity and doesn't do much regarding the other issues mentioned.
Leniane
Hmm I do agree with the points but rather than removing the guideline how about moving it instead to if you have a hard diff as lowest diff as requirement so we don't get too many hard "hards" as lowest difficulty of beatmaps
Unpredictable

Leniane wrote:

Hmm I do agree with the points but rather than removing the guideline how about moving it instead to if you have a hard diff as lowest diff as requirement so we don't get too many hard "hards" as lowest difficulty of beatmaps


kinda disagree here. if it plays like a Hard and matches with a lot of the current Hard difficulties, then it probably is a Hard, seems kinda odd to add another layer of rules to the "lowest diff" requirement for Hard imo and just sounds like a rabbit hole of semantics we really don't need either. sounds a lot better to leave it to the discretion of mappers/modders and BNs to see whether it plays like a Hard. if a Hard were to abuse chords during 1/4 sections then its probably not a Hard at all or takes into account some BPM scaling. there are enough differences to tell what is an Insane and what is not, especially during 1/4 sections of a map. personally, Scotty's original proposal sounds quite good imo and I would much rather see the rule removed than rather than adding an extra rule that's honestly not needed imo as its rarely enforced in the first place.
Feerum
I must say i am against the removal of the Guideline. As already stated, it shall prevent having too dense pattern in a Hard difficulty, but i also agree that the word "sparingly" is very very subjective. And even when 1/2 jumpstreams are something which rarely would happen in Hard, removing this Guideline would allow that and it could get abused pretty badly.

I see Hard difficulties as diffs which introduce the player into more dense and longer 1/4 section. (Where the Normal does with short 1/4 parts)

I would like to throw an idea here which could make this rule a bit clearer.

Chords within 1/4 streams should be at least 1/1 beat apart from each other. More dense usage of chords is too difficult for players of this skill level.


To have an visual example to this Guideline:


The reason for this is because i think that 1/2 chords during 1/4 streams, means normal jumpstreams are too hard for a Hard difficulty considering that the Normal can have only 5 consecutive 1/4 notes with chords only at the beginning and ending of it.

For me the logical order for making it harder from the Normal is having longer 1/4 streams with 1/1 chords. And depending on the BPM this allows also putting 1/2 chords because it stays as a Guideline.
Unpredictable

Feerum wrote:

Chords within 1/4 streams should be at least 1/1 beat apart from each other. More dense usage of chords is too difficult for players of this skill level.


I'm quite for this as well actually, its a great alternative. Putting it at as a guideline as well makes it so that it's enforced whilst being able to compensate for various songs under special circumstances if need be and it addresses the main problem of the proposal with providing actual snap divisors that mappers could go by without being incredibly vague. Not bad, I think I'm either/or on yours and Scotty's proposed solutions so we'll see how Scotty goes about this and whether or not he likes this alternative solution.
Kawawa
I agree "sparingly" is something weird word.
as we know, we are using basically consecutive 1/4 stream for hard difficulty
so most "Hard difficulty" will be broken If the set requires this ironically

I don't think it will be abused If we remove this guideline
anyways It is primarily determined by BNs and the case by case

Feerum wrote:

Chords within 1/4 streams should be at least 1/1 beat apart from each other. More dense usage of chords is too difficult for players of this skill level.


also yeah Feerum's alternative is quite great.
Feerum
Feerum
Now that was a fast merge
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