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Make certain mods selectable in editor/testing (HT, DT, HR) [duplicate]

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Total Posts
30
This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +48
NixXSkate
785 posts
Joined February 2011
Topic Starter
NixXSkate
I think this would be very useful for mappers that are too slow to play their own maps that want to check if it flows well,
or maybe just mappers who want to see how well their maps play with difficulty changing mods like double time.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
either ask someone to testplay or watch auto. using mods in editor/test mode has been requested multiply times before and denied :(
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest
yeah, it's been denied a bunch of times. but without a discussion.

I for one would think this would be really nice to have. It would solve these problems: t/100867
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
problem is people can use it for practice
Skyara
52 posts
Joined January 2011
Skyara
This is not a good idea. When you make a map, you make it for what it is, without trying to make it Dtable or Flable.

Maps are not made to be modded but mods are there to give a challenge to the map.
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest

Skyara wrote:

This is not a good idea. When you make a map, you make it for what it is, without trying to make it Dtable or Flable.

Maps are not made to be modded but mods are there to give a challenge to the map.
but you must be able to hardrock it. Even auto can fail if you have too much HP drain rate.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
must be able to hard rock??? where does it say this?
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest
There's obviously something wrong with the beatmap if auto can't pass with one of the mods on.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
afaik, mods don't count towards rankability. i might be wrong on that though. feel free to correct on this if i'm wrong
also found this in the original(???) request

LuigiHann wrote:

0_o wrote:

Let's not forget, the editor is also used for practising, not just editing/modding.
peppy is against that, which is why he was against this
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest
I don't see a point in having flashlight or hidden mod available, but hardrock would definitely be a good mod to have when testing. Maybe doubletime.

or if this practice stuff should be banned completely, then I guess AiMod could automatically see if it's impossible with hardrock.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat

theowest wrote:

or if this practice stuff should be banned completely, then I guess AiMod could automatically see if it's impossible with hardrock.
I was thinking of the same thing just before.
BeatofIke
4,172 posts
Joined September 2011
BeatofIke
I have always wanted this feature. Why is this feature not here yet?
For those who are not from Stepmania are probably too blind to see how useful this feature would be.
Support+
NixXSkate
785 posts
Joined February 2011
Topic Starter
NixXSkate

deadbeat wrote:

problem is people can use it for practice
i think that this is a silly reason to not implement certain mods in editor because editor can always be used for practice regardless of whether or not there's mods. i'm not suggesting mods such as flashlight or hidden be an option, but rather mods that actually change the map.
also, if you're a mapper, you can't just ask someone to play the map to see if the flow is done well, you have to see it for yourself and being able to use half time for maps that are too fast for the mapper would be a great fix. perhaps you want to see how well it would play with double time if it's an easier difficulty and/or to see how well it would play.

Skyara wrote:

This is not a good idea. When you make a map, you make it for what it is, without trying to make it Dtable or Flable.

Maps are not made to be modded but mods are there to give a challenge to the map.
says who?
a good map should be fun with different mods and exiting out editor to play it with mods should be unnecessary. a good mapper always takes other mods into consideration. for example, 5OD is very low overall difficulty, but slap it onto a normal and it's too high because beginning players want to play normal difficulties with DT+HR, and then the OD is too high for them. when people rate on a map, they don't consider whether or not they're using mods, but rather whether or not they enjoy playing it, rather than getting frustrated (i know this feel orz).
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
here's an alternative idea then. actually play it. and if its too hard, No Fail. people will play a map in editor with mods on until they can do it.using mods in the editor is a form of practice peppy is trying to avoid.
NixXSkate
785 posts
Joined February 2011
Topic Starter
NixXSkate

deadbeat wrote:

here's an alternative idea then. actually play it. and if its too hard, No Fail. people will play a map in editor with mods on until they can do it.using mods in the editor is a form of practice peppy is trying to avoid.
can't a player just go offline if they wanted to practice? or rename the difficulty of a map? not implementing this would be a poor attempt to prevent unranked practice, and the idea is to help the MAPPER
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest
then I guess all unranked maps are practice maps.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
I want to be able to slow down or speed up the editor and test play so I can test it.

testing on halftime means you're that much more accurate, and can adjust the offset even further, especially for songs that are really too hard for you.

it's silly that we don't have this. I doubt anyone could convince me otherwise.
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest

ziin wrote:

I want to be able to slow down or speed up the editor and test play so I can test it.

testing on halftime means you're that much more accurate, and can adjust the offset even further, especially for songs that are really too hard for you.

it's silly that we don't have this. I doubt anyone could convince me otherwise.
oh god. I've always dreamt of that.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

theowest wrote:

ziin wrote:

I want to be able to slow down or speed up the editor and test play so I can test it.

testing on halftime means you're that much more accurate, and can adjust the offset even further, especially for songs that are really too hard for you.

it's silly that we don't have this. I doubt anyone could convince me otherwise.
oh god. I've always dreamt of that.
I'd settle for a mode that let you see your offset (late/early). That way when you notice you're constantly hitting 100s and can't quite tell if it's because the map is poorly timed, you can adjust the offset manually.
Gabi
2,554 posts
Joined December 2008
Gabi
?

Also i don't see how testing on halftime would make it more accurate to decide the timing of a map, if anything it would make it harder.

On-topic: I'm pretty sure every hardrock map will be played exactly how a HR map should be played as long as you have all your notes placed inside the actual Grid area. As someone else mentioned in this thread, you are not mapping maps for certain mods.

If you want to practice a map, just go offline mode, pretty sure peppy wants to remove all sorts of unranked play (hence why he removed unranked from nospin)
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat

Gabi wrote:

If you want to practice a map, just go offline mode, pretty sure peppy wants to remove all sorts of unranked play (hence why he removed unranked from nospin)
same with auto pilot and relax x.x
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest
they were actually ranked for a while, but they happened to be too OP.

if anything, I'd just want to see my mistimed notes on the result screen: t/87536/
Last edited by theowest , edited 1 time in total.
deadbeat
osu! Alumni
9,218 posts
Joined June 2009
deadbeat
well...i guess those 2 aren't ranked mods really. but they do now submit scores and add to playcount. but they don't submit a online score >_<
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
Hard rock:
CTRL+A -> CTRL+J -> Open difficulty settings, increase circle size by 1, set AR to 10, OD to 9~10 (usually 10), Drain to 8~10 (depends on the original drain) -> Save as new difficulty -> XXX HR -> enjoy.
I'm doing it when I mod maps which have objects in questionable places (usually HP Bar).
Obviously difficulty settings should be approximate to the diff+40%, I just took an example of an average insane diff up there. Easier diffs don't really require much attention, except for the inverted part.

As for double time, well to be honest while I do agree it would be a nice thing to have, it certainly isn't really required. Nomod ranking is the norm, but I do agree that objects shouldn't be offscreen or stacked wrongly because of hard rock.
theowest
osu! Alumni
6,891 posts
Joined January 2009
theowest
Seriously though, this argument about "practising" in the editor is just silly. It's just like playing on any other unranked map. There's no score submission and it does not add to your playcount.
Currently we can't apply any mods inside the testing area, so what do we do? We just save as new difficulty, cut out the part we want to play it, go back and play it with whatever mod you want. Like lolcubes's example.

This feature request is for testing, see how it plays with that mod, maybe you'll experience a different offset information with a different speed?

I'm still neutral towards this feature request, it'd be easier to test stuff but it certainly isn't necessary.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
About the statement of "mapping for mods", I think it's very reasonable to map for DT, especially since right now Edit is limited and does not let you pick an AR above 10 by default which means DT is the only way to get this. Having to exit Edit and go into play mode to test an AR9+DT map (which is designed to be FCable with this mod setting) every time a change is made is an unnecessary hassle and I don't understand what's the problem of letting you use DT directly through F5 in Edit.

Same goes for testing stacks on your map with HD, to see if they're HD-sightreadable. Having to constantly exit Edit and go into Play>Solo to test with HD... just pointless waste of time. Especially if you're only testing a certain pattern in the middle of your map, which forces to either play the whole thing again pointlessly or make a dummy difficulty every time.

Why was this denied. Makes no sense. Allowing to use mods from Edit playtest mode would save an unnecessary hassle which is no more than a time waste; you can already test with mods now, it just forces you to go through unnecessary loops that... again, just waste your time.

What's the current argument against adding this? That people could use this to practice? puh~lease. You can just go offline for that already. Not a real argument. Anything else?
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF
Except you're not supposed to map for mods at all. I remember somewhere someone complained about "this pattern is completely unreadable on hidden, the circle doesn't show up at all" and I think it was mm201 who said "Hidden is a difficulty-increasing modifier. This adds artificial difficulty, so it doesn't have to stand up to the normal guidelines."
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes

Aqo wrote:

About the statement of "mapping for mods", I think it's very reasonable to map for DT, especially since right now Edit is limited and does not let you pick an AR above 10 by default which means DT is the only way to get this. Having to exit Edit and go into play mode to test an AR9+DT map (which is designed to be FCable with this mod setting) every time a change is made is an unnecessary hassle and I don't understand what's the problem of letting you use DT directly through F5 in Edit.
Is it really necessary to test outside of the boundaries of what difficulty settings provide you? Except for OD (and 10 is already crazy enough), I really see no reason. Any average bpm map that doesn't have stupid patterns or long streams is able to get DT'd, regardless of the AR (which in most cases is 9 at most).

Aqo wrote:

Same goes for testing stacks on your map with HD, to see if they're HD-sightreadable. Having to constantly exit Edit and go into Play>Solo to test with HD... just pointless waste of time. Especially if you're only testing a certain pattern in the middle of your map, which forces to either play the whole thing again pointlessly or make a dummy difficulty every time.
Stacks behave the same with or without hidden. HD sightreadability doesn't matter. MillhioreF summed it up nicely why.

Aqo wrote:

What's the current argument against adding this? That people could use this to practice? puh~lease. You can just go offline for that already. Not a real argument. Anything else?
You can turn this the other way, a person could just practice online without a care.

While I do understand why people would want these, I don't think the mods should really exist in the editor. Yes I like doubletime and while I think it could be neat to have it there, it doesn't affect mapping or modding directly.

I would love to see No Video or the fun spoiler though.
TheVileOne
osu! Alumni
8,431 posts
Joined March 2010
TheVileOne
If we are to expect to mod with regard to extra gamemodes, this would be a useful option. It wouldn't be used for many things, useful none the less. Also consider mapping with regard to certain gamemodes. If you want to make sure your map plays half decent in other mods, this would be an efficient way to test it.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Aren't you guys going a bit off-topic, bringing the rankability argument in here isn't a good idea, as the main argument in this thread to allow mod use in editor is for timing.

However this has been requested and denied multiple times so i'll have to mark it as a dupe.

If you want to discuss including mods in the Ranking Criteria then go to it's Discussion Forum and make a topic about it, but i doubt it will go well.

In my opinion tho, if you want to play the map at a different speed, just set a playback speed and let it go while you move your mouse around to hit the circles even tho you cant actually hit them. Although timing is much more easier if you just compare the metronome ticks with the actual beats of the song, hitting circles to find the timing depends a lot on the person, since it's also based on their own playskill.
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