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[Rule Change Proposal] Hybrid mapsets including osu!catch

posted
Total Posts
32
Ascendance
Elite Mapper
4,252 posts
Joined July 2013
Topic Starter
Ascendance
Hello!

The current ranking criteria has this rule in place:

Ranking Criteria wrote:

If a hybrid mapset includes osu!standard difficulties...
  1. A reasonable spread of at least two osu!standard difficulties must be included. The lowest difficulty cannot be harder than a Normal and it must comply with its respective mode’s difficulty-specific Ranking Criteria.
  2. Converted difficulties must form a reasonable spread. For example, a mapset with Easy and Normal osu!standard difficulties and an Insane osu!catch difficulty is not permitted. One or more additional difficulties may need to be added to fill the gap.
  3. Any two or more osu!taiko or osu!mania difficulties must be arranged in a reasonable spread. The lowest difficulty cannot be harder than a Hard.
  4. One or more osu!catch difficulties may be included. The lowest difficulty cannot be harder than an Insane.
As of recently, there have been a lot of one-difficulty Rain hybrid mapsets in qualified, and their appearance seems to only be gaining traction. For some reason, our mode is different in the sense that we do not require a lowest difficulty of at least Hard (Platter), compared to the other modes which do. Due to the recent popularity that osu!catch mapping has been gaining in the recent years, I'd like to propose the following change to the ranking criteria:

Ranking Criteria wrote:

Any two or more osu!taiko, osu!mania, or osu!catch difficulties must be arranged in a reasonable spread. The lowest difficulty cannot be harder than a Hard.
This change will allow a wider audience to be able to play songs they enjoy in osu!catch as well as finally falling in line with the other modes who share the same rule in regards to hybrid sets. The same argument listed years ago with Deif's proposal to remove one-difficulty Overdoses from being rankable applies here, with the sentiment that converted difficulties, while being more playable in the osu!catch mode, are no longer reliable for creating a proper spread. This has been reiterated time and time again with the increase of difficult maps in standard, causing more "disastrous" converts to be brought to the forefront.

I'd like to hear some other people's opinions on this. Thanks in advance!
Sanyi
236 posts
Joined November 2015
Sanyi

Ascendance wrote:

As of recently, there have been a lot of one-difficulty Rain hybrid mapsets in qualified, and their appearance seems to only be gaining traction.
Isn't true from what I can tell since Sotarks stopped pushing standard sets with a rain diff added to it xD (please don't quote me on that it's a joke okay thanks)

I think that the rule change is a good idea
ZiRoX
Elite Mapper
1,052 posts
Joined November 2009
ZiRoX
This was going to be redacted in a proposal soon, so thanks for saving me the job. With that said, I fully agree with this.
Benita
604 posts
Joined February 2014
Benita

ZiRoX wrote:

I fully agree with this.
wonjae
768 posts
Joined October 2014
wonjae
me support
Nanachii
103 posts
Joined August 2015
Nanachii
fully agree with this
_handholding
3,109 posts
Joined April 2014
_handholding
Ascendance for QAT when?
Mrbinking
128 posts
Joined May 2015
Mrbinking
I really agree with this
JBHyperion
osu!catch Paragon
3,885 posts
Joined September 2014
JBHyperion
Basically what ZiRoX said, the ideas's been floated around for a while now but it's nice to have it on "paper" so to speak.

Yes, catch converts are typically of better quality than taiko or mania ones, but with more experienced and improving mappers nowadays, they don't match up anywhere close to specifics. We're at a point now where we have enough active catch mappers to support additional diffs.

Whilst people did initially complain about the old "Overdose only" rule being changed, it did allow a great deal more mappers (myself included) to get into the GD-ing game and overall has greatly increased the accessibility and breadth of content in the mode. More of the same can't be a bad thing.
Ascendance
Elite Mapper
4,252 posts
Joined July 2013
Topic Starter
Ascendance

JBHyperion wrote:

Whilst people did initially complain about the old "Overdose only" rule being changed, it did allow a great deal more mappers (myself included) to get into the GD-ing game and overall has greatly increased the accessibility and breadth of content in the mode. More of the same can't be a bad thing.
This is a really big point. Hopefully this change will allow some newer mappers or maybe ones proficient in lower difficulties to have a bigger impact on osu!catch!
celerih
617 posts
Joined July 2014
celerih
We've seen a few ppl already add this in their personal criteria for checking hybrids, so I couldn't agree more with this proposal, yes please
Sorceress
332 posts
Joined September 2012
Sorceress

Benny- wrote:

ZiRoX wrote:

I fully agree with this.
Hareimu
624 posts
Joined March 2014
Hareimu
couldn't agree more
Sotarks
3,524 posts
Joined May 2014
Sotarks

Sanyi wrote:

Ascendance wrote:

As of recently, there have been a lot of one-difficulty Rain hybrid mapsets in qualified, and their appearance seems to only be gaining traction.
Isn't true from what I can tell since Sotarks stopped pushing standard sets with a rain diff added to it xD (please don't quote me on that it's a joke okay thanks)

I think that the rule change is a good idea
What lol
JierYagtama
716 posts
Joined November 2015
JierYagtama
Platter in hybrid sets deserve some love
_handholding
3,109 posts
Joined April 2014
_handholding

JeirYagtama wrote:

Platter in hybrid sets deserve some love
_Meep_
1,707 posts
Joined April 2014
_Meep_

Kisses wrote:

JeirYagtama wrote:

Platter in hybrid sets deserve some love
Jemzuu
601 posts
Joined February 2016
Jemzuu
i hate platters rrrrrr
Yumeno Himiko
Elite Storyboarder
1,168 posts
Joined August 2012
Yumeno Himiko
Pretty valid cuz nowadays catch mapping has it's own style and this rule is pretty old.
Xinnoh
Elite Mapper
1,962 posts
Joined April 2014
Xinnoh
Devil's advocate here, but no one can map platters. Everyone and their mum can map a rain, so I don't know if this will really be beneficial in the long run if all hybrids are required to have a platter if there are fewer made.

Why not change the rule so that it's required to have two diffs, but the lowest diff should be rain or easier.
Benita
604 posts
Joined February 2014
Benita
If someone can map a rankable Rain, it shouldn’t take them too long or too much effort to learn how to map a rankable Platter.
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani

Sinnoh wrote:

Devil's advocate here, but no one can map platters. Everyone and their mum can map a rain, so I don't know if this will really be beneficial in the long run if all hybrids are required to have a platter if there are fewer made.

Why not change the rule so that it's required to have two diffs, but the lowest diff should be rain or easier.
Uh maybe people can also learn how to map platters that aren't shitty did you think about that.

"yeah everyone sucks at making normals we should stop requiring those" like lmfao
Nelly
Beatmap Nominator
1,533 posts
Joined August 2014
Nelly

JeirYagtama wrote:

Platter in hybrid sets deserve some love
JBHyperion
osu!catch Paragon
3,885 posts
Joined September 2014
JBHyperion

Sinnoh wrote:

no one can map platters.

what are you smoking kid lol
Dea ex machina
535 posts
Joined January 2014
Dea ex machina
epic
MBomb
MBomb
revival of mbomb's platter
Pachiru
osu! Alumni
2,956 posts
Joined June 2013
Pachiru
I don't map CTB, but I think it can be good, cause it's frustrating to see good maps with only Rain, when you can't play over Platter. Also it will create more content for this mode so I really agree with this :)
JBHyperion
osu!catch Paragon
3,885 posts
Joined September 2014
JBHyperion
Ok so let's set an official deadline for final suggestions and reviews here:

The following rule change from the General Ranking Criteria is proposed:

Ranking Criteria wrote:

If a hybrid mapset includes osu!standard difficulties...
  1. One or more osu!catch difficulties may be included. The lowest difficulty cannot be harder than an Insane.

to:

Ranking Criteria wrote:

If a hybrid mapset includes osu!standard difficulties...
  1. Any two or more osu!taiko, osu!mania, or osu!catch difficulties must be arranged in a reasonable spread. The lowest difficulty cannot be harder than a Hard.

Discussion for this proposed rule change will be open for two weeks from today, ending at 23:59 UTC+0, Thursday the 5th of April. If there are no open discussions that warrant revision by this point, the proposal will be amended into the Ranking Criteria with immediate effect. Therefore, if you have questions, concerns, or ideas for further improvement, please continue to discuss them here over the next two weeks.
Last edited by JBHyperion , edited 2 times in total.
Deif
Elite Mapper / osu!catch Paragon
3,565 posts
Joined April 2010
Deif
I'm happy to see Ascendance's idea has been accepted by most people in here. Back then when the older rule got amended, mappers weren't mentally prepared for that though in the long term it helped making more balanced spreads.

Mapping evolves every day, and it's time to include Platters in hybrid sets to increase their diversity. Creating more content to cover a wider range of players would be indeed beneficial, and nowadays there are enough mappers to cover those necesities.

With that being said, I wholeheartedly agree with this proposal implementation.
Okoayu
Nomination Assessment Team / Elite Nominator
4,959 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoayu
applied in https://github.com/ppy/osu-wiki/pull/1164
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,812 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
merged
JBHyperion
osu!catch Paragon
3,885 posts
Joined September 2014
JBHyperion
Please take note that the above spread rule for osu!catch has been amended into Ranking Criteria with immediate effect.

Any mapsets that were previously nominated before this change will still be considered rankable under the previous ruleset for the following 6 months, after which ALL beatmaps must conform to the new rule.
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