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The Mafia Tree - Game Over

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Frostings
913 posts
Joined May 2013
Frostings

- Magic Bomb - wrote:

Honestly, in my mind, I thought I had more stuff about Frostings, but looking through his ISO, he's only actually had 23 posts, there's not much to judge him on.
going back on your words now that the heat's on you? :)

- Magic Bomb - wrote:

I missed the fact that after this, you don't try to bring out lurkers in any of your other posts (As did no one, to be honest, other than Setsuen, someone should have probably tried to get them earlier. As he said, if the lurkers are scum, they must be laughing at us right now).
It's a reminder to everyone to start posting. If they continue to lurk, we just lynch them day2 for free scumflips. No need to worry about that. Nice change of subject though, by the way
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
pieguyn
I'm catching up now. I'm like halfway through this and I see a bunch of people asking me about my original vote on sLaiNi. it was entirely because of this:

sLaiNi wrote:

Forgot to say: Yeah, finally start :D
it read overly self-conscious. that was literally the entire reason behind it.

it's obviously a weak as hell reason to vote someone at this point in the game (I don't think sLaiNi is scum anymore btw), but it was like the second page of the game so there it was.

I'm probably just gonna post a bunch of thoughts after I'm current again.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
Sakura
-[Jess]- replaces fartownik, effective immediately

Vote Count 1.21

Frostings (4) - sLaiNi, Amianki, - Magic Bomb - [L-3]
- Magic Bomb - (2) - Frostings, Drezi
sLaiNi (2) - pieguy1372, Navizel
rEdo (1) - -[Jess]-
Setsuen (1) - Haneii
Haneii (1) - Setsuen

Not Voting (3) - rEdo, Ace Timing, Zexion

With 13 Alive it takes 7 to lynch
MBomb
MBomb

Frostings wrote:

- Magic Bomb - wrote:

Honestly, in my mind, I thought I had more stuff about Frostings, but looking through his ISO, he's only actually had 23 posts, there's not much to judge him on.
going back on your words now that the heat's on you? :)
Actually, I still think you're the best lynch, it's just there's less than I thought there was.
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
pieguyn
Town:

Setsuen: don't ask me to explain this in depth bc I've basically skimmed all of his posts, but I think there's a conviction in his reads that reads town (one thing OTOH I can think of was him pushing Haneii for "trying to avoid the hard 1v1 with me" - it's incredibly dumb, but if I squint I can kinda sorta see why someone would think it makes sense). I don't actually think anything he did came off as forced or like scum just BS'ing reads to appear like they're doing shit, either. most of what I *did* see in his posts falls into a similar vein in that it's entirely wrong, but I could see why he'd believe it. I think the miller claim also points to him being town here.

Ace: I'm reading his giant rant from earlier as really town. the reasons he was being wagoned, from what I remember, were fairly bad and/or playstyle related and I can see why he'd break down and get pissed off over it.

Haneii: this read is based on her early game posts; I liked that she put a considerable amount of legwork into looking at the Nightingale setup and trying to relate it to here (see her post about the D4 doublevoter in that game) in that it's not something I'd expect scum to give much of a shit about whereas I *can* see it coming from town who thinks setup breaking would be a good way to move the game away from RVS.

rEdo: I don't think this looks similar to his scum game - in 100% OJ 2, I remember a lot of his posts making a lot of neutral observations in order to appear like he was doing something when he really wasn't, here his posts come off a lot more direct and pointed tonally. as a specific point, I liked the last sentence of his most recent post where he attempts to argue against all the people being suspicious of Ace's rant.

Maybe Town:

sLaiNi: I liked his attitude early game where he essentially said "fuck it, I get scum read for posting a lot but I'll do it anyway bc it's more fun to actually play the game". after that, I liked him calling out Frostings in response to the "forced double vote slip" (he is correct to say that there really wasn't any benefit to doing it as scum).

Null:

Magic Bomb: a lot of mixed feelings here. I'm really fond of his recent posts, namely the recent analysis re: Frostings, but I'm not sure if any of it is really unfakeable. Drezi's point about Bus Driver probably not being a town role in a Sakura game is also something I want to look into at some point.

Ank

Zexion

Frostings

fandwerik

Scum (W->S):

Drezi: I'm seeing a lot of nitpicking on semantics and logical issues without much attempt to analyze motivation. I didn't like that when Ace had that giant rant earlier he handwave dismissed it as an "overreaction" without actually making any attempt to factor it into his read. it read like he thought "ATE = scummy" would be a good angle to push without actually analyzing the post objectively, so there it was. I didn't like the push on Magic Bomb for a few reasons. claiming someone is "probably town", but "suspicious" isn't actually a contradiction or something that is in any way scummy, and him focusing on it felt like he was stretching to find a "contradiction" to comment on in order to look like was doing something; and I didn't like the later push based around his Setsuen read for a similar reason, all it's indicative of is that his read changed (as opposed to him making up a read for ... some reason). nowhere in either of these pushes does he consider *why* scum vs. town would do the things he's calling either of them out for, which is what makes it feel disingenuous to me.

Navizel: there is very little Navizel has done this game that I've actually liked. there's a lot of surface observations, but it feels more like he's just commenting on stuff out of convenience and there's no internal consistency anywhere. I don't *actually* know where his current reads on the game stand.
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
pieguyn
vote: Navizel

I want to start here for the time being. in the meantime, I'd like if someone could attempt to sell me on one of the leading wagons.
Setsuen
106 posts
Joined May 2013
Setsuen

Zexion wrote:

"We Need a Fifth" :^)
That game had only 4players noob.

Zexion wrote:

Is this serious? The WIFOM you're giving us, the town is hurting a lot more than you think. Now we have to worry about a possible scum claiming D1 and even if we reach LyLo and also you being town, we insta-lose. (As you said before, if you reach LyLo alive we lynch you and it's done) So please refrain for stating your opinions as a fact, they're not.
bc clearly you're very sure town will mislynch very fast onto lylo and that no PR can ever clear me.

Zexion wrote:

@Setsuen: is your only reason to vote Haneii the fact that he "avoided a 1vs1 with you" as you said before?
Other than totally disengaging from my 1v1, he also 1.Tried to direct my attentions to others(Oh look that is what scum CB did in Lupus), 2.Literally started lurking once he did(oh wait Nav did this before,shocking) and of course 3.he tunneled hard on me before all this(just like what scum CB and Nav did in Lupus) and 4.Once he did disengage his post towards me started being more ""neutral"(which was what Sephibro pulled off and what CB tried to do but failed in the end in Lupus)

- Magic Bomb - wrote:

- Magic Bomb - wrote:

could we just have a list of the most suspicious to least? Then we can just ask if we want to know the reasonings for your suspicions on a specific person.
Also Setsuen, I asked for this before, but could I request this please?

Oh, by the way, I want you to include reasons, but preferably summarised ones. Then we can ask if we want more details about any read.
Haneii>Ace>Drezi>MB>Jess>rEdo>pieguy>Frosting>slani>Navizel>Amianki>Zexion

Haneii and Ace are obvious
Drezi is just getting way too suspicious bc she is literally purposely avoiding any interaction with Haneii.
I already stated a whole chain why you can be scum be association if Ace flips scum.
Jess,Pie,rEdo not enough post thanks lurkers.
Frosting post as I stated in a WAYY earlier post generally lean town except for some USELESS sentences.
slani gave off a newb town vibe after he got MINOR pressurized
Navizel is probably noob town trolling like what I did in that horrible game where half the players were lurking(and obv I lost bc thanks town for deciding to ML)
Amianki might have very little post but I know CB well enough to give him a huge town read until he messes up anyway.
Zexion is the best town read I have atm bc he is actually trying to do something ABOUT THE LURKERS, that and he probably isn't afraid to 1v1 me as town so meh.

pieguy1372 wrote:

vote: Navizel

I want to start here for the time being. in the meantime, I'd like if someone could attempt to sell me on one of the leading wagons.
I am just going to say read my above reads on Navizel and blame the lurkers and tbh Drezi isn't the kind of person to troll so it really is weird why she is avoiding the topic whenever I mention Haneii to her.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi

pieguy1372 wrote:

Drezi: nowhere in either of these pushes does he consider *why* scum vs. town would do the things he's calling either of them out for, which is what makes it feel disingenuous to me.

pieguy1372 wrote:

Scum (W->S): Navizel: commenting on stuff out of convenience and there's no internal consistency anywhere.
So your main scumread Navizel is based on having no internal consisteny and my MB push is disingenious with almost indentical reasons..

Should ever MB flip scum you're jumping to the top of my scumlist..
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi

pieguy1372 wrote:

Ace: I'm reading his giant rant from earlier as really town. the reasons he was being wagoned, from what I remember, were fairly bad and/or playstyle related and I can see why he'd break down and get pissed off over it.
He had two votes early D1, and he breaks down, yeah how could anyone possible bear that kind extended pressure.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
Also is this some kind of MafiaScum trend to throw around phrases like "nitpicking on semantics" just for the sake of doing so? If someone isn't making sense I'll get to the end of it to see why it happened and what he actually wanted.

In case of Magic Bomb it's still a mystery... which gives me the impression that it he just posted random thoughts attempting to appear busy, and not a course of acton he legitimately thought would be best for town to follow.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi

pieguy1372 wrote:

claiming someone is "probably town", but "suspicious" isn't actually a contradiction or something that is in any way scummy, and him focusing on it felt like he was stretching to find a "contradiction" to comment on in order to look like was doing something
Except it's not what happened. First of all I had no need for "looking like I was doing something" in the first place, and he did not say "probably town", he said "I'm pretty sure he's town" which is a lot stronger, and following it with saying that the CONSTANT behavior of the person in question is kinda suspicious is off, because if you're ambivalent about someone, you don't say that you're "PRETTY SURE" they're town.

Follow that up with your read changing to "YOU'RE OBVIOUS SCUM" after a single post (oh guess what right after Setsuen mentioned him being scum...) and for a reason that makes zero sense, and then proceed to backpedal and vote someone else later, then yeah you'll earn my vote.

The only part you're right about is me not always posting my indepth thoughts/analyses regarding stuff, and since I can afford not to it's fine, because I can get better reads by seeing the uninfluenced interpretations of others of said exchanges, just like in your case now.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
Ace you forgot to answer this

Drezi wrote:

Ace Timing wrote:

ayy confirm lmao
also can you tell me what was the reason for confirming with "ayy lmao"?
-[Jess]-
1,086 posts
Joined March 2014
-[Jess]-
Hi
Setsuen
106 posts
Joined May 2013
Setsuen

Drezi wrote:

Ace you forgot to answer this
Drezi you forgot to respond to this.

Setsuen wrote:

Drezi is just getting way too suspicious bc she is literally purposely avoiding any interaction with Haneii.

-[Jess]- wrote:

Hi
Scum point for not saying that you are going to read through the entire 32page to get reads.
-[Jess]-
1,086 posts
Joined March 2014
-[Jess]-

Setsuen wrote:

-[Jess]- wrote:

Hi
Scum point for not saying that you are going to read through the entire 32page to get reads.
I am too tired now.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
Lol actually I haven't read your last post Setsuen, kinda forgot after the flurry of replies to pie, and I already told you I don't have a strong opinion on Haneii, btw Haneii is a she (and I'm a he, which I already told you)
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
pieguyn

Drezi wrote:

Except it's not what happened. First of all I had no need for "looking like I was doing something" in the first place, and he did not say "probably town", he said "I'm pretty sure he's town" which is a lot stronger, and following it with saying that the CONSTANT behavior of the person in question is kinda suspicious is off, because if you're ambivalent about someone, you don't say that you're "PRETTY SURE" they're town.
I don't think these two statements are remotely different as you're claiming they are, and I don't think him complaining about something Setsuen did all the time is indicative of an inconsistent read.

p/4431471/

I think it's indicative that he thinks Setsuen scum painting everyone in the game could just be playstyle, and that it's an aspect of his playstyle he naturally is inclined to scum read.

Drezi wrote:

Follow that up with your read changing to "YOU'RE OBVIOUS SCUM" after a single post (oh guess what right after Setsuen mentioned him being scum...) and for a reason that makes zero sense, and then proceed to backpedal and vote someone else later, then yeah you'll earn my vote.
I don't think it was just one post? I thought there were a lot of posts in between (and there was also the post in between where he alluded to having a few null reads, which Setsuen was supposedly one of). correct me if I'm wrong.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
I don't even know what you're going on about with me avoiding interaction wtih Haneii, I'm pretty sure I talked to her before, unlike some others in this game.. At first she was slightly suspicious to me, but it didn't really go anywhere later and it's pretty null and I'm not gonna sheep your "she didn't 1v1 me hur hurr" case if that's what you're getting at.
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
pieguyn

Drezi wrote:

Also is this some kind of MafiaScum trend to throw around phrases like "nitpicking on semantics" just for the sake of doing so? If someone isn't making sense I'll get to the end of it to see why it happened and what he actually wanted.
it is not a "mafiascum trend" - scum need to fake scum hunting, and commenting on something that appears to be an inconsistency is something scum can easily comment on in order to look like they're doing something. this is the case because it's the kind of thing that is *objectively* true, and easy to point out, but in reality has nothing to do with what people's alignments actually are most of the time.

Drezi wrote:

He had two votes early D1, and he breaks down, yeah how could anyone possible bear that kind extended pressure.
he had 2 votes, at least one of whom was you who had been pushing it for a while iirc, and iirc a shitton of negative sentiment/people agreeing that he hadn't done anything even if they weren't explicitly voting him (correct me if I'm wrong on this), when in reality he just didn't have any RL time to do anything. you don't see why someone would get pissed off at that?
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
He didn't vote him after one post, but he did change his read to scum and voiced intent to vote Setsuen after one post.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
And I'm pretty sure I covered the semantics part earlier. Yes, it is easy for scum to comment something that is objectively true, I couldn't care less and I won't forego sorting something because of that, holding it against me is pretty pointless it's not all I'm doing.
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
pieguyn

Drezi wrote:

He didn't vote him after one post, but he did change his read to scum and voiced intent to vote Setsuen after one post.
can you walk me through this? I don't remember this being what happened either so I'm either misremembering something or not getting what your point here is.

Drezi wrote:

And I'm pretty sure I covered the semantics part earlier. Yes, it is easy for scum to comment something that is objectively true, I couldn't care less and I won't forego sorting something because of that, holding it against me is pretty pointless it's not all I'm doing.
what pushes have you made outside of the Magic Bomb/Ace pushes?
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi

pieguy1372 wrote:

he had 2 votes, at least one of whom was you who had been pushing it for a while iirc, and iirc a shitton of negative sentiment/people agreeing that he hadn't done anything even if they weren't explicitly voting him (correct me if I'm wrong on this), when in reality he just didn't have any RL time to do anything. you don't see why someone would get pissed off at that?
There was no agreement from others at all, I haven't been "pushing it for a while", it was like 2 posts alltogether and
1) He had been around and had the time to make a joke post, but did not comment on anything relevant, and it's what his scumgame was like.
2) The game was a bore nothing happened, and my rant didn't really convince mel, so I just kept pushing it blatantly so that there's a sharper "take sides" opporunity in the game, and something to talk about.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi

pieguy1372 wrote:

what pushes have you made outside of the Magic Bomb/Ace pushes?
Are you seriously suggesting that I'm in need of more content in this game?
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
pieguyn
i'm thinking i should probably go back and read it again; i thought there was a lot of negative sentiment towards him in general.

Drezi wrote:

Are you seriously suggesting that I'm in need of more content in this game?
i tend to read people in terms of the pushes they're actually making rather than how much content it looks like they have - it is fairly easy to fake just commenting on posts. see: my Navizel read because he's not actually pushing anyone at all.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
Most people sit at 0 or 1 in that regard aswell so I don't really see what you're getting at.

p/4432811 here he says Setsuen is town, in the following post Setsuen suggests MB as scum, in the next post MB changes his read saying:

- Magic Bomb - wrote:

This comment alone makes me just think you're [Setsuen] scum who's trying to pin blame on me if you get lynched, as you've essentially just said "Don't focus on the person you're reading as scum".
sLaiNi
34 posts
Joined May 2013
sLaiNi

Drezi wrote:

The only part you're right about is me not always posting my indepth thoughts/analyses regarding stuff, and since I can afford not to it's fine, because I can get better reads by seeing the uninfluenced interpretations of others of said exchanges, just like in your case now.
In your last games you were completely different though, you pointed out every detail of your thoughts right away, even if it was against the main oppinion. So why did you change your way of playing to passively analyzing stuff instead of your usual active scumhunt?
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
I did not do that, maybe you just never realized.
sLaiNi
34 posts
Joined May 2013
sLaiNi

Drezi wrote:

I did not do that, maybe you just never realized.
Imo you always were one of the most active towns and now your ISO is full of one liners, and half of it being you just trying to take part in the setsuen/MB conversation and that part even felt like just adding something to appear active. That's my feel to this.
pieguyn
2,020 posts
Joined May 2009
pieguyn

Drezi wrote:

Most people sit at 0 or 1 in that regard aswell so I don't really see what you're getting at.

p/4432811 here he says Setsuen is town, in the following post Setsuen suggests MB as scum, in the next post MB changes his read saying:

- Magic Bomb - wrote:

This comment alone makes me just think you're [Setsuen] scum who's trying to pin blame on me if you get lynched, as you've essentially just said "Don't focus on the person you're reading as scum".
I don't think this is anywhere near as binary as you're saying it is. he was previously town reading Setsuen, Setsuen does something suspicious, which makes the read drop from town to null. shortly after, we get this, which is where he said he was null reading Setsuen to begin with:

p/4433096

- Magic Bomb - wrote:

For the record, most of my reads are null because a lot of people have barely said anything, but I do have a few null-town, null-scum, and one scum read.
after that we got these 2 posts:

Setsuen wrote:

Stop trying to twist my word scum. I had a better scum read on Haneii than you and I was questioning why Drezi wasn't even focusing on Haneii when he had much more scum points. That and the fact that we can just lynch Ace and if he flips scum YOU'RE ALMOST 100% certain to be scum. by means of association.

Did you see me dropping my focus on Haneii entirely AFTER he asked me to give him my scum reads? no. but 10/01 nice try scum.

Also
> scum who's trying to pin blame on me if you get lynched

I hope you know Miler only show up guilty on cop report. I still flip town if I die. Also anyone who played long enough should know that "pinning blame on others"while being lynched as scum means literally almost NOTHING unless I'm town. So nice possible slip you scum.

Also >Still trying to say lynch to me on D1 after my past games 10/10.

- Magic Bomb - wrote:

..."Stop trying to twist my word" *twists words* 10/10 logic there
it wasn't until a few posts after that where Setsuen was supposedly "constantly twisting his words around" that he started hard scum reading him. it's exactly as he said in the game thread: individually saying something is scummy doesn't mean you're scum reading them, it just means you think they're more likely town but could acknowledge some things they did might make more sense coming from scum.

I think the progression here is fairly obvious if you read it from the top, and you acting like his read has to be a binary "town read" or "scum read" is a large part of where my issue here lies. do you disagree?
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi

sLaiNi wrote:

Drezi wrote:

I did not do that, maybe you just never realized.
Imo you always were one of the most active towns and now your ISO is full of one liners, and half of it being you just trying to take part in the setsuen/MB conversation and that part even felt like just adding something to appear active. That's my feel to this.
What the actual fuck???!
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
To me the progression looks unnatural and the explanations retconned, yes.
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
And that doesn't require/suggest me reducing his read states to binary "100% scum/100% town" as you're making it out to be.
sLaiNi
34 posts
Joined May 2013
sLaiNi

Drezi wrote:

sLaiNi wrote:

Imo you always were one of the most active towns and now your ISO is full of one liners, and half of it being you just trying to take part in the setsuen/MB conversation and that part even felt like just adding something to appear active. That's my feel to this.
What the actual fuck???!

Drezi wrote:

??????
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
My ISO is full of one liners TRYING TO TAKE PART in the setsuen/MB conversation, ADDING SOMETHING TO APPEAR ACTIVE? Are you serious? What the hell. Really. I have no words. Are we playing the same game.
rEdo
809 posts
Joined November 2008
rEdo
Also requesting a replacement. Extend the deadline by 24 hours, too.

My job is way too time absorbing that I can't even find time to read this anymore.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Topic Starter
Sakura

rEdo wrote:

Also requesting a replacement. Extend the deadline by 24 hours, too.
Searching for a replacement for rEdo, deadline will only be extended at the request of a replacement, if one cannot be found by deadline i'll freeze the deadline, slot will be modkilled.

Explanation
This is the third slot i've had to replace this game, this already leaves 2 potential replacees unable to replace in, which severely limits the chances of even getting a replacement, and i don't want D1 to last forever, if people lynch someone before deadline hits then the modkill will only happen after the night phase IF i can't find a replacement by then, if the modkill happens at deadline 2 things can happen: If the slot is town, day will immediately end, If the slot is scum an additional 48 hour deadline extension will be granted and votes will be reset, this is no one's fault, and I don't really like punishing slots that actually requested replacement instead of being prodded out, but i think this is the best for the game health at this point, it wasn't an easy decission, but i'm not confident that i'll even find a replacement. This is open for contesting, but please do so via PM, and I reserve the right to the final word if i disagree.
sLaiNi
34 posts
Joined May 2013
sLaiNi

Drezi wrote:

My ISO is full of one liners TRYING TO TAKE PART in the setsuen/MB conversation, ADDING SOMETHING TO APPEAR ACTIVE? Are you serious? What the hell. Really. I have no words. Are we playing the same game.
I guess we are. But thanks for repeating what I've already said. So you don't want to say anything else about that?
Drezi
217 posts
Joined January 2014
Drezi
Yeah, I am sorry sLaiNi I'm just desperately trying to take part in this game, and trying to appear active, but I guess it doesn't cut it by the high standards you're setting yourself. I'll try to step it up, don't vote me please.
sLaiNi
34 posts
Joined May 2013
sLaiNi

Drezi wrote:

Yeah, I am sorry sLaiNi I'm just desperately trying to take part in this game, and trying to appear active, but I guess it doesn't cut it by the high standards you're setting yourself. I'll try to step it up, don't vote me please.
Thanks for that. I can understand that you are afraid of me right now, but don't worry young fellow, the scum will be found.
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