I was disregarding built in quality because it's not directly relevant to the in-game performances
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Why do people say mouse is inferior to tablet.
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ZenithPhantasm
Topic Starter
That may be the case, but surface drag still slows you down when using tablet, and people who hover need to deal with the weight of their arm(unless they use a small area that can be reached with their wrist alone).ZenithPhantasm wrote:
Weight. The lightest mouse with a decent sensor weights 5x that of a tablet stylus.
placebo effect might be a thing but i think that tablet has faster growth rate than mouse with absolute tracking and relative tracking thing
i mean you just need to get used to the area for tablet to know where to hit while if you are using mouse you need to feel the movement
not really sure though never personally used tablet for osu myself only did touchscreen and mouse
i mean you just need to get used to the area for tablet to know where to hit while if you are using mouse you need to feel the movement
not really sure though never personally used tablet for osu myself only did touchscreen and mouse
Still lighter than mouse. Also, most people hover and very few to none move their arms to control the stylus they use wrist and finger. If anything arm movement is more applicable to mice.otoed1 wrote:
That may be the case, but surface drag still slows you down when using tablet, and people who hover need to deal with the weight of their arm(unless they use a small area that can be reached with their wrist alone).ZenithPhantasm wrote:
Weight. The lightest mouse with a decent sensor weights 5x that of a tablet stylus.
Mouse drift is a big problem for me. Weight is most definitely something that holds me back. The pen is lighter, and it's more easy to move around than a giant hunk of plastic. Movement seems really restricted when I compare the two. You can fling your cursor across your whole screen with much less effort than a mouse. Again, with mouse drifting, it gets really uncomfortable and throws me off.
Weight is a two-edged sword as it gives you innate stability but takes away innate speed. You can compensate for a lack of either by training your hand with the device though so weight shouldn't be considered a one-sided argument for tablet.
I'm sure I've said it in many threads already but I think tablet is easier to learn at the very beginning.
The stability and "low" mobility of mouse are experienced as a hurdle for many new players as aiming is the most basic skill you have to possess when playing osu!. Aiming is arguably easier with a tablet for a beginner and you won't mind slipping off of stacks(like Riince) or sliders after a jump cause at least you hit the jump. Therefore tablet feels more rewarding and also gives an easier access to pp due to how highly rated aim is in osu!.
=> Tablet causes fast progress for beginners when coming from mouse cause they just see what they get, not what they lose(also because stability isn't that much of an issue yet with 1/1 maps)
Once you got to a level where basic jumps are 100% burnt into your mussle memory(like 1700pp) swapping from mouse to tablet doesn't give you that immediate boost anymore due to stability suddenly being an issue while you were able to jump with mouse as well.
I'm sure I've said it in many threads already but I think tablet is easier to learn at the very beginning.
The stability and "low" mobility of mouse are experienced as a hurdle for many new players as aiming is the most basic skill you have to possess when playing osu!. Aiming is arguably easier with a tablet for a beginner and you won't mind slipping off of stacks(like Riince) or sliders after a jump cause at least you hit the jump. Therefore tablet feels more rewarding and also gives an easier access to pp due to how highly rated aim is in osu!.
=> Tablet causes fast progress for beginners when coming from mouse cause they just see what they get, not what they lose(also because stability isn't that much of an issue yet with 1/1 maps)
Once you got to a level where basic jumps are 100% burnt into your mussle memory(like 1700pp) swapping from mouse to tablet doesn't give you that immediate boost anymore due to stability suddenly being an issue while you were able to jump with mouse as well.
ZenithPhantasm
Mouse still takes far more physical effort than a pen. The fact that most mouse shape with decent sensors have absurd shapes makes it hard to get an ideal grip that allows you to leverage the arm's full strength.otoed1 wrote:
That may be the case, but surface drag still slows you down when using tablet, and people who hover need to deal with the weight of their arm(unless they use a small area that can be reached with their wrist alone).ZenithPhantasm wrote:
Weight. The lightest mouse with a decent sensor weights 5x that of a tablet stylus.
Mouse makes my wrist sore a lot faster than stylus
Most people switch to tablet before even finding settings for mouse that work for them. Things like turning on raw input etc. Then when they get a tablet and they aren't fighting things like acceleration they think it was the mouse. Things like drift etc can be minimized with proper settings.
theyre bad, mouse is better than tablet for streams, tablet better for jumps
proof: dooms king of time freeze, cptn being the only one who fc'd freedom dive who doesn't out-skill every other top player to the point of being peerless.
proof: dooms king of time freeze, cptn being the only one who fc'd freedom dive who doesn't out-skill every other top player to the point of being peerless.
I snap a lot on tablet, besides, mouse drains more stamina on your aiming hand since you move your entire arm instead of your wrist
But still, "tablet or mouse is better" is bullshit, it comes to preference
But still, "tablet or mouse is better" is bullshit, it comes to preference
No.KuranteMelodii wrote:
I snap a lot on tablet, besides, mouse drains more stamina on your aiming hand since you move your entire arm instead of your wrist
Like from 800 upwards you're playing wrist only.
Anything below involves your arm but mouseplayers like Doomsday work with their wrists.
absolute position is the one thing that makes tablet objectively better than mouse.
they are also lighter and easier to handle.
they are also lighter and easier to handle.
It still hurts because its bulkyEndaris wrote:
No.KuranteMelodii wrote:
I snap a lot on tablet, besides, mouse drains more stamina on your aiming hand since you move your entire arm instead of your wrist
Like from 800 upwards you're playing wrist only.
Anything below involves your arm but mouseplayers like Doomsday work with their wrists.
I disagree, Drawing lines with a pen is easier than tracing them out with a mouse.xxjesus1412fanx wrote:
theyre bad, mouse is better than tablet for streams, tablet better for jumps
proof: dooms king of time freeze, cptn being the only one who fc'd freedom dive who doesn't out-skill every other top player to the point of being peerless.
this is bullshit, streaming has nothing to do with your aim hand. doomsday, cptnxn and angelsim are so good at streams because they have high speed and stamina in their left hand, not because they use a mouse with their right.xxjesus1412fanx wrote:
theyre bad, mouse is better than tablet for streams, tablet better for jumps
proof: dooms king of time freeze, cptn being the only one who fc'd freedom dive who doesn't out-skill every other top player to the point of being peerless.
All of the top players use tablet for a reason. And it's not just that tablets are cheaper. Saying it's just a 'placebo' is ridiculous.
Yes. And I'm sure that most top players have thought about this mouse vs. tablet thing a lot longer and harder than any of us ever will.
I think people are mixing up two different sets of people here.
On one hand you have competent high ranked players that have been playing for a very long time and presumably give the game a good deal of thought as well.
On the other hand you have these 100k+ rankers that think buying all the best equipment is what will give them the edge when they haven't put in any work to show for it.
Two very different groups, there really isn't much overlap here. Stop taking assumptions from one side and pitting them against everyone else as if your biased sample is representative of the competent osu population at large.
I think people are mixing up two different sets of people here.
On one hand you have competent high ranked players that have been playing for a very long time and presumably give the game a good deal of thought as well.
On the other hand you have these 100k+ rankers that think buying all the best equipment is what will give them the edge when they haven't put in any work to show for it.
Two very different groups, there really isn't much overlap here. Stop taking assumptions from one side and pitting them against everyone else as if your biased sample is representative of the competent osu population at large.
Comparing them is just plain dumb because both have cons and pros.
The only advantage I see mouse having over tablet is convenience (everyone has one, don't need to buy another, it's always there on the desk) and being able to click with it. Only the first is really relevant to osu.
I think a lot of top players are tablets players because they bought one early on because they thought it was what they needed to be good. 3+ years later, they have 3 years of tablet experience compared to no mouse experience, so naturally it's their peripheral of choice.
It's hard to say absolute positioning is objectively better than relative. Either way you are still building muscle memory. Any negatives with mouse sensors are relative to the quality of your sensor. For what it's worth, most quality mice have substantially better polling rates than tablets, which are capped out around 128 hertz.
Streams also have an aim component.silmarilen wrote:
this is bullshit, streaming has nothing to do with your aim hand. doomsday, cptnxn and angelsim are so good at streams because they have high speed and stamina in their left hand, not because they use a mouse with their right.xxjesus1412fanx wrote:
theyre bad, mouse is better than tablet for streams, tablet better for jumps
proof: dooms king of time freeze, cptn being the only one who fc'd freedom dive who doesn't out-skill every other top player to the point of being peerless.
Maybe I am doing something wrong, but I play with mouse, and I only use my wrist, not my entire arm ;-;KuranteMelodii wrote:
I snap a lot on tablet, besides, mouse drains more stamina on your aiming hand since you move your entire arm instead of your wrist
But still, "tablet or mouse is better" is bullshit, it comes to preference
Dpi around 2k
maybe cuz moving a pen isn't as hard as moving the mouse.. mouse require more stamina
and i don't rly see absolute position vs relative tracking isn't a big deal if you are used to it alrdy
even mouse drift isn't that thing that will ruin your world imo
and i don't rly see absolute position vs relative tracking isn't a big deal if you are used to it alrdy
even mouse drift isn't that thing that will ruin your world imo
They say that because they want to blame their lack on skill on their equipment rather than on their lack of skill.
how is a tablet cheaper? you dont need a super exquisite mouse with 17 buttons that plays games instead of you, a cheap one is fine , and those have lower dpi which is an advantageB1rd wrote:
All of the top players use tablet for a reason. And it's not just that tablets are cheaper. Saying it's just a 'placebo' is ridiculous.
even if thats true youre not gonna run and buy a tablet are you? no you keep your mouse.
if you have had a tablet in the first place or you wanted to by one anyway then sure enjoy otherwise its an investment with relatively minor gains.
but i could be wrong, and players here are aiming for those ranks and pp and if you say that the tablet is somuchfkinbetter its unbelievable, then thats fine
Most market mouse have poor build quality, a crappy chip, or come with useless gimmick that is bad for osu. I had good first hand experience with that, and when I stopped blaming my lack of skill and analysed my equipment I discovered a whole world of fuckery that was wrong with it.
Mouse players really need to do homework on mouse mechanics so they know exactly what mouse is best for them. If you have a hunch there is somethin wrong with your mouse, then probably there really is something wrong with it and you should get it replaced before wasting almost a year with faulty mice like I have.
Tablet > mouse coz reasons. Tablet > mouse coz cptnxn said so. That said, if you play for 5 years you'll be good anyway.
Mouse players really need to do homework on mouse mechanics so they know exactly what mouse is best for them. If you have a hunch there is somethin wrong with your mouse, then probably there really is something wrong with it and you should get it replaced before wasting almost a year with faulty mice like I have.
Tablet > mouse coz reasons. Tablet > mouse coz cptnxn said so. That said, if you play for 5 years you'll be good anyway.
You can get a Tablet for $30 which is cheaper than most gaming mice.ShadyAngel wrote:
how is a tablet cheaper? you dont need a super exquisite mouse with 17 buttons that plays games instead of you, a cheap one is fine , and those have lower dpi which is an advantageB1rd wrote:
All of the top players use tablet for a reason. And it's not just that tablets are cheaper. Saying it's just a 'placebo' is ridiculous.
even if thats true youre not gonna run and buy a tablet are you? no you keep your mouse.
if you have had a tablet in the first place or you wanted to by one anyway then sure enjoy otherwise its an investment with relatively minor gains.
but i could be wrong, and players here are aiming for those ranks and pp and if you say that the tablet is somuchfkinbetter its unbelievable, then thats fine
I don't just think that, I've experienced it. I rocketed through the ranking as soon as I got a tablet. And I'd recommend anyone who wants to be a high rank to get a tablet also.
Why is it always the noobs that are arguing how mouse and tablet are the same? Every high ranking mouse players that I've seen has said that tablet is in fact better.
ZenithPhantasm
Older Wacoms are 133hz. Huions and new Wacoms are all 200hz.chainpullz wrote:
It's hard to say absolute positioning is objectively better than relative. Either way you are still building muscle memory. Any negatives with mouse sensors are relative to the quality of your sensor. For what it's worth, most quality mice have substantially better polling rates than tablets, which are capped out around 128 hertz.
Also theres no ideal mouse yet. Im also too lazy to explain why because no one but Nix cares and it would be a waste of my time.
You don´t need a tablet to play good. The key word here is TIME, you have to invest time in order to be good, and most people want inmediate results which in a game like this WILL NEVER HAPPEN. The only thing tablet does is give you a faster start, so what? your limits are gonna be pushed and you will always want more: more speed, more stamina, more aim and then keep asking for more so in the end it´s the same story. It´s never gonna be enough if you dont spend the time you need to keep improving. I believe both tablet and mouse have the same potential. They do have diferent learning curves and times. That and preference is the only difference to me.
I say mouse and tablet are both balanced, just I PREFER Mouse
But for me it's not my right arm using mouse getting tired, it's my left arm hitting beats with q and w getting tired.KuranteMelodii wrote:
I snap a lot on tablet, besides, mouse drains more stamina on your aiming hand since you move your entire arm instead of your wrist
Topic Starter
So far, the arguments I have for tablet being better are price, which is variable, weight, and absolute positioning. I feel as though weight isn't that important, although I doubt i'm high enough rank and don't play DT enough to give a proper thought about weight and only really high ranked players could discuss it well. Absolute positioning is a definite advantage, but I feel as though play time will easily overcome these issues. Price is too much of a varying factor in my opinion and frankly if I were to purchase another tablet, I would make sure its a higher priced tablet with good reviews, etc. in order to make sure it is high quality. It seems to me that mouse is only marginally worse than tabler, unless you find using it uncomfortable to play with.
Earlier someone made a point how most high ranking players use tablet. However, this does not directly mean that tablet is better than mouse in a significant way. Consider this: People who have purchased a tablet obviously have a greater drive to play the game, as they were willing to spend money on it. Saying that just because something is more popular doesn't mean its better. That would be like saying because Coca Cola is the best soda in the U.S simply because it is the most popular.
Earlier someone made a point how most high ranking players use tablet. However, this does not directly mean that tablet is better than mouse in a significant way. Consider this: People who have purchased a tablet obviously have a greater drive to play the game, as they were willing to spend money on it. Saying that just because something is more popular doesn't mean its better. That would be like saying because Coca Cola is the best soda in the U.S simply because it is the most popular.
Mouse doesn't have absolute positioning? Ha
I gotchu covered...
I gotchu covered...
Tablet is better in situations were you gotta go fast with slider heavy maps and mouse is better when you need to snap in jump heavy maps. Tablet also seems to have less of a learning curve since writing utensils are universal all over the world, but after a certain rank the two start feeling the same anyways so whatever
Ghetto pucks assemble!
Everything else people claim is literally an opinion.
It's because of absolute positioning, nothing more nothing less. It definitely makes it easier to learn to aim for the circles. What nobody can say for sure is whether or not mouse aiming at top level play is a handicap (i.e. after a decade of practice)otoed1 wrote:
So far, the arguments I have for tablet being better are price, which is variable, weight, and absolute positioning. I feel as though weight isn't that important, although I doubt i'm high enough rank and don't play DT enough to give a proper thought about weight and only really high ranked players could discuss it well. Absolute positioning is a definite advantage, but I feel as though play time will easily overcome these issues. Price is too much of a varying factor in my opinion and frankly if I were to purchase another tablet, I would make sure its a higher priced tablet with good reviews, etc. in order to make sure it is high quality. It seems to me that mouse is only marginally worse than tabler, unless you find using it uncomfortable to play with.
Earlier someone made a point how most high ranking players use tablet. However, this does not directly mean that tablet is better than mouse in a significant way. Consider this: People who have purchased a tablet obviously have a greater drive to play the game, as they were willing to spend money on it. Saying that just because something is more popular doesn't mean its better. That would be like saying because Coca Cola is the best soda in the U.S simply because it is the most popular.
Everything else people claim is literally an opinion.
One true objective advantage for the tablet is that you'll never get mouse drift with it. With mouse, no matter how good your sensor is, you'll still need to adjust the position of your mouse after a lot of movement. Mice never have perfectly linear tracking, and for some longer songs, this has a significant effect on the player.
Mouse takes physical effort? Mouse makes your wrist sore? Just how weak you people are???????