she is arguing with me and voted me without having read a single post by me from before her replacment, I wouldn't classified that as being overly analytical.

I'm not saying to ignore everything my predecesor did.
One thing is to ignore what tn did and give a read entirely based on my slot.
But the opposite is equally bad, a.k.a reading me entirely based on my predecessor and dismissing my play.
You should just take both plays into account, because the slot is the same.

Navizel wrote:

In Carbon-14, I was scumreading Blue Yoshi but he got replaced by Caligno who looks town but turned out to be scum which means my initial read is correct. So yeah, I might. Can't really blame me.

Last time you brought this SPECIFIC GAME up when I replaced into a game you were scum...

She is literally just hopping on the Frostling wagon scum reading 4/5 people voting her (I included Drezi) And to be honest posting thoughts on the game as you are reading it is pretty unreliable as it isn't hard to read the entire thread and pretend to be reading it bit by bit.

@NH

Sakura wrote:

You should just take both plays into account, because the slot is the same.

I AM taking both plays into account, and I don't find it town-like at all, that you start arguing with me, even though you don't know what's going on right now basically.

Yes I have a bias, since I have been scumreading your predecessor, and no you're not on the right track if you want to change that, while town-Sakura should be, and would be, I believe.

I haven't even checked who's voting me, I only saw a lone wagon on RB and saw Drezi there which is what i found odd.
Also apparently Drezi's so worried about my vote on him that he's trying to push it as if it's the most scummy thing ever

Sakura wrote:

I haven't even checked who's voting me

The fact that you want me to believe this is ridiculous

beeboy123 wrote:

Sakura wrote:

I haven't even checked who's voting me

The fact that you want me to believe this is ridiculous

The fact that you assume i want you to believe this is ridiculous.
But I rather not look at who's voting me before i finish reading otherwise i'll end up with biased reads because I know there's clear scumommentum on my wagon.

How exactly am I worried? I'm pointing out everything I find odd. Voting and going into an 1v1 without having read posts from your target (or anything connected to the current events) is questionable indeed.

Sakura wrote:

The fact that you assume i want you to believe this is ridiculous.
But I rather not look at who's voting me before i finish reading otherwise i'll end up with biased reads because I know there's clear scumommentum on my wagon.

I can't see you replying to Gumica's post and not reading the vote count right above it. Not only was I sure TN was scum if I ignored what he did I would still have my vote on you.

Sakura wrote:

But I rather not look at who's voting me before i finish reading otherwise i'll end up with biased reads because I know there's clear scumommentum on my wagon.

So seeing who voted you will result in a biased reads, but scumreading me and picking a fight before you even get to read a single post by me is fine? To me it looks like you're already biased. Why would you be, unless you're scum who already knows that I'm an enemy.

Drezi wrote:

Sakura wrote:

But I rather not look at who's voting me before i finish reading otherwise i'll end up with biased reads because I know there's clear scumommentum on my wagon.

So seeing who voted you will result in a biased reads, but scumreading me and picking a fight before you even get to read a single post by me is fine? To me it looks like you're already biased. Why would you be, unless you're scum who already knows that I'm an enemy.

It's not biased because it's based on 2 facts:
1) I know my role PM says im town
2) You're pushing a wagon based on BS while not voting it.

prod dodging, gonna be back at really late tonight

Guess you did read the vote count :/

beeboy123 wrote:

Guess you did read the vote count :/

I saw the vote count, i didnt read the votes on me, I only read the off-wagon votes and saw Drezi there, as his lone vote stands out like a sore thumb.

Sakura wrote:

I'm not saying to ignore everything my predecesor did.
One thing is to ignore what tn did and give a read entirely based on my slot.
But the opposite is equally bad, a.k.a reading me entirely based on my predecessor and dismissing my play.
You should just take both plays into account, because the slot is the same.

Navizel wrote:

In Carbon-14, I was scumreading Blue Yoshi but he got replaced by Caligno who looks town but turned out to be scum which means my initial read is correct. So yeah, I might. Can't really blame me.

Last time you brought this SPECIFIC GAME up when I replaced into a game you were scum...

Yup. Doesn't change the fact that I'm still scared of it to happen again.

Sakura wrote:

It's not biased because it's based on 2 facts:
1) I know my role PM says im town
2) You're pushing a wagon based on BS while not voting it.

1) Is not a fact, only a claim
2) I'm pushing a wagon based on a case I made, and still making after the replacement, and I already told you about my vote on RB, not sure what was unclear about it. After that tn was about to be modkilled, so I had no reason to change it back, after you replaced I wanted to see how you'd act. Also it's ironic that you call my case BS, yet you made a case against me based on nothing but being uninformed.

Vote: Sakura

Sakura wrote:

I saw the vote count, i didnt read the votes on me, I only read the off-wagon votes and saw Drezi there, as his lone vote stands out like a sore thumb.

mmk you just so happened to only read the parts that help support your claims but all the other parts renamed unread. If you don't get lynched at this point town lost.

Currently townreading Sakura btw.

Ow ow, Sakura replaced let's all townread her now, better sheep her baseless scumread on me too.

Drezi wrote:

You're just being lazy here, I'm still on your wagon for all intents and purposes, I voted RB when I felt I had enough of a case against him too, for emphasis and a reaction, since before that he didn't bother to explains his reasons in detail and address my points properly.

It's never really fun to replace in and read all 40ish pages immediately. So I just don't like how you call someone lazy. Also since I explained my stuff, why don't you address it then?

NoHitter wrote:

Sakura's play is looking really town at the moment, yet there's the fact I was scumreading the slot.

Sakura: Would you lynch a slot which was initially scummy to you, but then whoever replaced it looked town to you?
(Actually, can everyone answer this too?)

Not really. I tend to base my reads on their play. So if they play bad, but get replaced and play good, I would switch my read accordingly. (or good and plays bad)

so idk Drezi, but you ask me to post my reason and you don't do anything because Sakura is here ok.


Some more stuff, but blah.

@Drezi, if you really wanted to help Sakura, why don't you summarize stuff for her instead of calling her lazy?

Oh. Consider that as my "probably last" post today since I will be gone today

Raging Bull wrote:

@Drezi, if you really wanted to help Sakura, why don't you summarize stuff for her instead of calling her lazy?

Because I wanted to see her own take on things, and I'm not liking the way she's going about it right now. Also things haven't been so simple, that could be summarized easily, plus you're defending her, why don't YOU do your best to help clear her then? I've been wanting to lynch the slot you know.

Raging Bull wrote:

It's never really fun to replace in and read all 40ish pages immediately. So I just don't like how you call someone lazy. Also since I explained my stuff, why don't you address it then?

Forming an opinion without learning about the case you're getting involved in is what's being lazy. Instead of arguing without knowing what's up, read about it.

Raging Bull wrote:

Also since I explained my stuff, why don't you address it then?

Well I've read your post, and everyone can see your reasons now so that's good, I posted mine long ago, at this point either you're scum, or we see things differently and we'd just be repeating ourselves, can't do much about that before a flip.

You should look at things from my PoV for once.
I replace into the game and get a town role PM.
I start reading and comment into stuff.
You call my post scummy and said that my predecessor was also scummy.
I counter your argument explaining what I was doing.
Vote Count pops in and I see you're voting someone else.
It pings me I vote you.

So basically for your argument about me voting you to work i'd have to have voted you as soon as I came in, but you were already discrediting me before I even finished catching up, and who's scared of a new pair of eyes looking over what's happened in a game? Hint: ----------SCUM--------

Sakura wrote:

So basically for your argument about me voting you to work i'd have to have voted you as soon as I came in

My argument works regardless of your timing, since there's no case where it's appropriate to scumpaint/vote without actually knowing the situation.

Sakura wrote:

and who's scared of a new pair of eyes looking over what's happened in a game? Hint: ----------SCUM--------

Yeah, well you started out good in this post, but lost me here.

I WANT TO HAVE YOUR EYES LOOKING OVER WHAT'S HAPPENNED, that's what I've been trying to tell you the whole time :'D

Just as I thought you read the thread claimed you thought everyone voting you was null-scum so if any of them push you into a corner you can use bad arguments to call them scum.

And that's what i'm doing, but as I said I didn't like how you attempted to discredit my initial catch up post because "ERMAGAWD READS ON CATCH UP POSTS" it's a pretty BS reaction because it reeks of scum trying to tie everything to a scum motivation to keep up their read of my predecessor since apparently it's not gonna be so easy to mislynch me anymore.

beeboy123 wrote:

Just as I thought you read the thread claimed you thought everyone voting you was null-scum so if any of them push you into a corner you can use bad arguments to call them scum.

So from my PoV everyone im scumreading while i'm catching up is attacking me, so they're obviously scum right?

I don't want to mislynch you, that's why I'd expect town-Sakura to be ISO-ing and reading the main points of the thread right now, and coming up with good posts once you know enough, instead of posting non-relevant way outdated reads for the second time, and still being here arguing without a foundation, trying to scumpaint me for scumreading the replacement of my scumread, when I don't like the way you start out.

Sakura wrote:

So from my PoV everyone im scumreading while i'm catching up is attacking me, so they're obviously scum right?

Ummm you shouldn't know they are scum reading you if you didn't read the votes count. Why does NH and Navi think this is town there is so much content in your posts that don't add up.

Sakura wrote:

You should look at things from my PoV for once.
I replace into the game and get a town role PM.
I start reading and comment into stuff.
You call my post scummy and said that my predecessor was also scummy.
I counter your argument explaining what I was doing.
Vote Count pops in and I see you're voting someone else.
It pings me I vote you.

So basically for your argument about me voting you to work i'd have to have voted you as soon as I came in, but you were already discrediting me before I even finished catching up, and who's scared of a new pair of eyes looking over what's happened in a game? Hint: ----------SCUM--------

Also basically for your argument to work you would have had to conveniently looked at the vote count and only see the Drezi vote and not all the bold off color red text.

I know I am recycling arguments but honestly this is driving me insane you must have read the vote count and why argue with us before you finish reading the thread or get a summary?

beeboy123 wrote:

Sakura wrote:

So from my PoV everyone im scumreading while i'm catching up is attacking me, so they're obviously scum right?

Ummm you shouldn't know they are scum reading you if you didn't read the votes count. Why does NH and Navi think this is town there is so much content in your posts that don't add up.

Ok so
1) I'm scumreading you.
2) You're attacking me.
What does any of this have anything to do with the vote count and why do you keep bringing that up?

It's just way too convenient that your two scumreads (already after reading like 10 pages) happen to be 1) the one driving your wagon, so you can discredit the wagon as scum motivated 2) the other wagon target that needs just a little push to save you.

What are the odds..

Drezi wrote:

It's just way too convenient that your two scumreads (already after reading like 10 pages) happen to be 1) the one driving your wagon, so you can discredit the wagon as scum motivated 2) the other wagon target that needs just a little push to save you.

What are the odds..

I dont even know who started the wagon yet, however from where i'm reading it feels like town sephi so i'm rethinking my read on you.

Continuin Reading:
@SNB: You put Frostings and Sonatora as scum together, do you think they're distancing?.
Sonatora makes some IIoA post (srsly are you trying to make ppl scumread you on purpose? your playstyle is odd, can't tell if you're townie reaction testing or simply scum).
Frostings continues to make posts that have no content, not surprising that his reads have barely any reasoning behind them, why is anyone townreading this I hope this slot improves on the remaining pages or i'm gonna start thinking that Drezi's blatant buddying.
Navizel Beetlejuices... wow.
Setsuen starts acting like a kid.
@Frostings: So how exactly where you expecting SNB to react?
Navizel posts no content again...
If scumteam is srsly Frostings/Drezi/(Navizel/beeboy) I want MVP plz.

Setsuen wrote:

I'm going to restate this:I'm the ONLY ONE here who DOESN'T need to scum hunt bc I call out lurking scums or attack suspicious as heck scums/ they go for me EVENTUALLY ANYWAY.

You do realize that this is called scumhunting right?

Navizel wrote:

If I flip town in this game, please get the fuck out already and admit that your gut read isn't always right.

On the other hand, posts like this make me think Navizel might be town... halp!

DakeDekaane wrote:

Since when mafia is a gut based game?

Since osu!mafia, srsly I rarely ever see logic based arguments in here.

Sonatora wrote:

Setsuen wrote:

<snip>Vote: Setsuen

I dont need your toxicity in this game.

So you're policy lynching Set or are you legit scumreading him.
OMG I actually think sephi's town... orz

Up to page 17, gotta eat dinner so i'll continue soon

At this point it's either Sakura OR Drezi+RB scum team. Take your pick. Sakura OR RB.(I wouldn't put it pass RB to frame Drezi as his maf buddy by defending him) and no IDC if RB is also FOSing Drezi or something. RB is STILL defending Drezi against Sakura. In fact most of RB's FOS towards Drezi can't even be called FOSes. It's like a warning that says::plz step up the FOS on Sakura or you might be in trouble.

at this point I have to somewhat townread Sakura ONLY bc her way of defending herself is like mine when I made a mistake. AKA town "covering" up their mistakes.(which btw scum don't usually do bc they sux too much).

and it's QUITE WEIRD how beeboy123 suddenly got active and is ACTIVELY pushing a lynch on Sakura. Sure it's the Deadline date but isn't that TOO desperate? Also it seem like a copy of Nav play in Lupus. First you wait for your maf buddy to FOS THEN you join in on the FOSing. Seriously. The intention of how beeboy123 phrases his post is ALMOSY exactly the same as Nav in Lupus.

Drezi wrote:

It's just way too convenient that your two scumreads (already after reading like 10 pages) happen to be 1) the one driving your wagon, so you can discredit the wagon as scum motivated 2) the other wagon target that needs just a little push to save you.

What are the odds..

What are the odds of me getting a VT role PM as town unless I replace into the game? Seriously, ANY town not willing to look at theories being possible will NEVER help town win bc they will keep saying that X is not scum so X is not possible. Town not being flexible in its thinking is going to cause a town lose in this game soon enough.

2Sakura

That's not scumhunting. That's scum spotting. I spotted Nyquil as scum immediately in ChaosInDummyVille. So no it's not scumhunting. This is partly also because silly town will say you have no right to FOS Nyquil you r suspicious.(Hai Zexion nice FOS, also nice cop death D2)

Sakura wrote:

@SNB: You put Frostings and Sonatora as scum together, do you think they're distancing?.

Not sure if they are "distancing", but now they were lately putting up this hate-relationship act, kind of. Possible cover up for a possible scumteam.

@Setsuen: Technically you spotted them because something in their play pinged you, that's scum hunting, pursing players is also scumhunting because it generates reactions.
Only thing is that your way of scumhunting is different, not everyone scumhunts in the same way, heck even I've gotten scumreads via gut that turn out to be correct a lot as well, i just call them gut, because it's hard to explain but it's something in their play that pings me.
Either way whether your way of scumhunting is VERY different from everyone else's isn't the point, if you want to continue saying you don't need to scumhunt that's fine with me, but to me it's just you using a different method of scumhunting that differs from the way most people are used to.

Anyway im gonna continue with my catch up.

I'm completely tired so I won't bother posting anything serious today, sorry. Was busy in-game (and IRL), might try following the game some day soon, too.

Static Noise Bird wrote:

Sakura wrote:

@SNB: You put Frostings and Sonatora as scum together, do you think they're distancing?.

Not sure if they are "distancing", but now they were lately putting up this hate-relationship act, kind of. Possible cover up for a possible scumteam.

Might be a thing, what do you think of Drezi and beeboy?
P-Ed:

Static Noise Bird wrote:

I'm completely tired so I won't bother posting anything serious today, sorry. Was busy in-game (and IRL), might try following the game some day soon, too.

oh ok, nvm.

@Setseun: btw deadline was extended by 24 hours so we still have time to discuss would you rather lynch Drezi with me, or wanna show me which posts of RB do you think are "fake FOS" because currently i have a townread on him.

Setsuen wrote:

Seriously, ANY town not willing to look at theories being possible will NEVER help town win bc they will keep saying that X is not scum so X is not possible.

I'm not willing to look into that possibility, cause I know that I'm town, so it's wrong lol. I also said even in this game earlier that we really shouldn't just rule out stuff that are still possible, but it doesn't mean that you should tunnel a random gutread just because it's among the numerous possibilities..

Sakura wrote:

would you rather lynch Drezi with me

That's amusing, but it'll have to be an NK if you want me dead :^)

Drezi wrote:

Setsuen wrote:

Seriously, ANY town not willing to look at theories being possible will NEVER help town win bc they will keep saying that X is not scum so X is not possible.

I'm not willing to look into that possibility, cause I know that I'm town, so it's wrong lol. I also said even in this game earlier that we really shouldn't just rule out stuff that are still possible, but it doesn't mean that you should tunnel a random gutread just because it's among the numerous possibilities..

The fact that you're not considering that I actually reacted to your suspicion because i'm town and it pinged me it's already you ruling out posibilities, consider this:
1) I think you might be scum trying to discredit me.
2) I think you might be town confbiasing on me based on their scumread of my predecessor.
What I'm asking you is if that it's not 1 or 2, to look at it from the perspective that i might actually be town instead of only "ERMAGAWD SCUM, EAT ROPE PL0X".
But you aren't doing that, so I take a step back and think that if you were town you'd at least be able to look at it from a more objective Point of View, instead you keep trying to say that everything i do doesn't come from a town motivation.
If you're town confbiasing then nothing i ever do will convince you otherwise, so i'm wasting my breath and should stop arguint with you and focus on the others.
If you're scum then you should be lynched anyway.

Drezi wrote:

Sakura wrote:

would you rather lynch Drezi with me

That's amusing, but it'll have to be an NK if you want me dead :^)

The amusing thing is that you think it's impossible, but scum will eventually be lynched as long as i'm alive. If you're not scum i'll eventually figure it out, but for now that's what i choose to go with because i believe you're not derp enough to be confbiasing.

Stop this confbiasing BS to discredit me. I'm reading you normally, with a starting point where TN left, and I explained why I keep pressing you like 4 times already, throwing funky phrases won't change the fact that it's NOT blind tunnelvision regardless of your action, it's the result of your handling of this situation.

So I STILL suggest that if you're town you stop arguing with me, and make your way through the thread instead, so you can actually make proper reads and quality posts to clear yourself.

Sakura wrote:

@Setseun: btw deadline was extended by 24 hours so we still have time to discuss would you rather lynch Drezi with me, or wanna show me which posts of RB do you think are "fake FOS" because currently i have a townread on him.

Raging Bull wrote:

@Drezi, if you really wanted to help Sakura, why don't you summarize stuff for her instead of calling her lazy?

lol. Does ANYONE notice how RB tends to push people to be active but NEVER FOSes them seriously for doing USELESS stuff? He's just basically avoiding a direct confrontation against Drezi. With this post while spurring Drezi to fight against Sakura more. Hidden intention found halp town didn't realise anything.

Also, Sakura & Drezi, your FOSes on each other sux so bad ;c

Vote:beeboy123

I think there's enough evidence to suspect him now. In fact a LOT if you include in useless one-liners

I am going through the thread and i'm commenting on it, because sometimes stuff peole do gets lost as the game progresses, that's why scum doesn't like replacements because they can look over the mist that they've already spread (And why your initial discredit pinged me).
If you're not town confbiasing then you should stop arguing and focus on other people, namely beeboy who seems to have an itching for lynching just whatever since like 40 pages ago.

P-Edit: Lol setsuen comes and votes beeboy just as I was saying that.
I agree tho i'm just gonna
Unvote
And finish reading first anyway.

lol forgot unvote

TBH I have trouble reading Sona and beeboy, usually I try to figure why people posted what they did, but they feel too random or I don't know..

Drezi wrote:

TBH I have trouble reading Sona and beeboy, usually I try to figure why people posted what they did, but they feel too random or I don't know..

From where i'm currently at sona seems to just be posting to appear busy, he seems to be actually trying in this game rather than in the previous ones but i'm unsure as to whether it's because he's scum and his lynch would hurt his team more than if he was town or if it's because he actually wants to try and help, then everytime he keeps doing useless stuff i go back to thinking that he's actually scum.
beeboy just seems to be happy with any lynch.

Ok you are metaing me based on navi's play what the hell?

I have wanted to lynch tn/Sakura for a while the reason why I am active now is because I couldn't be active before as my scum read wasn't posting content. There is also more info for me to analyze now that it is later in the game.

Honestly setsuen for someone who complains about others making you lose. you are doing a fantastic job of making town lose right now by voting me and let obvious scum like Sakura get away with this bs.

What makes you think I am happy with any lynch?

beeboy123 wrote:

What makes you think I am happy with any lynch?

That's the feeling your posts have given me so far, i'll quote them after I post my latest catch up post.

More Catching up:
Actually Setsuen does have a point wrt Sonatora not scum hunting.

Sonatora wrote:

and im scumhunting

i'm skimming at the iso's of everyone, so dont be stupid

OH HEY LOOK IM OBVIOUSLY LOOKING AT PPL'S ISOS SO IM OBVIOUSLY SCUMHUNTING. Actions need to match your words and so far most of your posts with a few exceptions have felt empty.
Aaaand sonatora falls to scummy again.

DakeDekaane wrote:

Not all lurkers are scum, neither all scum are lurkers, not defending tn as he has barely contributed here, just making emphasis on that.

wtf, are you sure you aren't confusing lurking with inactive?
@Frostings: Is your vote on Sonatora entirely based on voting someone that's laregely townread?

Frostings wrote:

Still FoS on SNB obviously

Based on what?

Frostings wrote:

Sona was initially second to lynch because:

Frostings wrote:

I sort of agreed to Sona lynch mentioned by Setsuen because I've seen Sona play, and sometimes his town-play ends up hurting town a few days in if he's kept alive + Sona is mean

Also Setsuen was being his usual self, there was really nothing worth mentioning there

Oh yeah and FoS on SNB

So you rather policy lynch Sona because he "can" hurt town over your actual baseless scumread on SNB?

Sonatora wrote:

Lynch is lynch. I'm fine with it

Oh well, I guess that bids goodbye to me

Vote: Sonatora

I'm wondering whether i should stick with my plan that I started on MS of policy lynching all self-voters or just treat this as null and move on.
Reference: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=59109

NoHitter wrote:

<snip> when I read Sona's posts, nothing pings me.

Read harder.
Sona complains about being useless and wants to be lynched by continuing to be useless... ok

Sonatora wrote:

Oh and btw those reads we're serious

Why did you need to specify this?

Raging Bull wrote:

Still think they may be scum buddies, but Frosting more than Sonatora now.

What made you change from "HOLY SHIT LET'S LYNCH SONA" to "Ok sona is less scum than frostings".

Updated Reads List:

Town:
Setsuen
DakeDekaane (I like how he wanted my predecessor to start posting content)
1 of Frostings/SNB (If either of them flip scum the other is town)

Null-Town
Gumica
NoHitter
Raging Bull (Haven't liked his latest posts up until the point I've read)

Truce
Drezi Decided to leave him here for the time being but putting a memo to look at this slot later after a few flips.

Null-Scum
Sonatora

Scum
1 of Frostings/SNB (If either of them flip scum the other is town)
Navizel
beeboy

Read up to page 24 so far, taking a break.

beeboy123 wrote:

I'd rather wat for Sephibro to get mod killed/replaced if he decides not to post content

^
Well technically not "pushing for a lynch" but wanting to get sephibro modkilled for not posting content is a bit too far, replacement maybe.

beeboy123 wrote:

He is obv lurkin trying to avoid being noticed urmagurd

^
Parroting Setsuen.

beeboy123 wrote:

IMO we gain more if we kill ten because he isn't even playing. But again I still think policy lynching non mods is bad.

^
More lynch happy on someone that wasnt even posting.
Welp guess maybe i was wrong on the fact that you want a lynch on "anyone" but still you wanting to see ppl dead because they aren't posting is going a bit too far.
---JUMP CUT---

beeboy123 wrote:

She is literally just hopping on the Frostling wagon scum reading 4/5 people voting her (I included Drezi) And to be honest posting thoughts on the game as you are reading it is pretty unreliable as it isn't hard to read the entire thread and pretend to be reading it bit by bit.

Catch-22
If i'm catching up i'm scum because it isnt hard to fake catching up.
If i'm not catching up i'm scum for not wanting to catch up.
Ergo you're just leaving yourself an open way to scumread me regardless of what I do or not do.

beeboy123 wrote:

Sakura wrote:

I haven't even checked who's voting me

The fact that you want me to believe this is ridiculous

Posting something irrelevant just to express that he doesn't believe me (he already had expressed he doesnt believe anything I said there's no need to keep pushing this argument)

beeboy123 wrote:

Sakura wrote:

The fact that you assume i want you to believe this is ridiculous.
But I rather not look at who's voting me before i finish reading otherwise i'll end up with biased reads because I know there's clear scumommentum on my wagon.

I can't see you replying to Gumica's post and not reading the vote count right above it. Not only was I sure TN was scum if I ignored what he did I would still have my vote on you.

Not only you are "pretty sure" TN is scum (which is reason alone for me to want to lynch you because i'm pretty sure im town and not miller so any kind of hard facts would be a lie), but also all your basing on me being scum is you not believing anything i say, which ends up in circle argument.

I dont believe you > Because I read TN as scum > But even if i gnore TN > You're scum > Because you're lying > I don't believe you.

beeboy123 wrote:

Guess you did read the vote count :/

And then you go back to your vote count argument.

beeboy123 wrote:

Sakura wrote:

I saw the vote count, i didnt read the votes on me, I only read the off-wagon votes and saw Drezi there, as his lone vote stands out like a sore thumb.

mmk you just so happened to only read the parts that help support your claims but all the other parts renamed unread. If you don't get lynched at this point town lost.

Once again Catch-22
Me reading the entire vote count means that i'm basing my scumread based on who's voting me (except i dont know who's voting me yet)
Me not reading it means i'm lying because I happened to coincidentially be scumreading the people attacking me.
Fact: I'm not the only one scumreading frosty.
Fact: I'm not the only one scumreading you.
That pretty much throws your argument out of the water because for your argument to work it'd have to imply that the people i'm scumreading have no reason to be scumread for the reasons i'm scumreading them.

Omg is this serious, this is a wall of bs content not explaining either of your scum reads then asked questions that have probably been answered. What are you trying to do I don't understand this from a town perspective? As a scum maybe you are trying to make people buy your I am not reading this thread lie.

beeboy123 wrote:

Honestly setsuen for someone who complains about others making you lose. you are doing a fantastic job of making town lose right now by voting me and let obvious scum like Sakura get away with this bs.

If this is so BS why are other people starting to unvote their vote off Sakura? If you're so sure Sakura is scum why are you not coming up with possible scum team that ties in with Sakura? You're basically desperately trying to lynch Sakura and denying town any information by fast lynching. lol.

Drezi wrote:

TBH I have trouble reading Sona and beeboy, usually I try to figure why people posted what they did, but they feel too random or I don't know..

They r not random. This is also why beeboy123 is suspicious.

Wait I wasn't talking about the stuff involving me plz wait

For sephi I said modkilled/replaced as those are the 2 options for being prodded

-

Ok I made a joke? GJ Sherlock

-

Tn wasn't away he was on osu and was ready post if he wanted which made me believe he was lurking scum he then rage quit after you banned him and wanted to screw over scum by claiming scum.

-

You then fail to prove your own point and decide to twist my words and quote some of my worse arguments. I did say why I think you are scum you lied about not reading the vote count and you are pretending to scum read me early to make your vote on me more acceptable. I am tired of your I have not caught up yet defence which you use to ignore what I have to say even if it is not a valid excuse.

-

On mobile this is as nice as my posts can be formatted

beeboy123 wrote:

You then fail to prove your own point and decide to twist my words and quote some of my worse arguments.

So i'm lying about the Catch-22 and your circular logic? How so?

beeboy123 wrote:

I did say why I think you are scum you lied about not reading the vote count and you are pretending to scum read me early to make your vote on me more acceptable.

"pretending" "lied" See your whole argument revolves around me lying and pretending to do stuff, but for it to actually work you'd need to assume that i'm scum and lying from the beginning, which means you're reacting to me scumreading you rather than because you think i'm scum.

beeboy123 wrote:

I am tired of your I have not caught up yet defence which you use to ignore what I have to say even if it is not a valid excuse.

I'm not using the "I haven't caught up yet as a defense" If anything Drezi was attacking me for "posting stuff without being caught up".
So since you don't believe me, tell me what yould you do as town in a position where.

You say i'm lying about catching up, I say you're lying about me twisting your arguments (See what I did there)

Stop it with these walls please. Catchup post walls are fair enough, but 6 pages worth of them in 6 hours???
Will read through the walls more thoroughly later, but please stop it Sakura and Drezi.
Your tunnels on each other IMHO are just town vs town arguments.

Vote Count 1.13

[4] Frostings -- Raging Bull, NoHitter, Sonatora, DakeDekaane (L-3)
[3] Sakura -- beeboy123, Frostings, Drezi
[1] beeboy123 -- Setsuen
[0] DakeDekaane --
[0] Drezi --
[0] Gumica --
[0] Navizel --
[0] NoHitter --
[0] Raging Bull --
[0] Setsuen --
[0] Sonatora --
[0] Static Noise Bird --


[0] No Lynch --
Not Voting -- Gumica, Navizel, Sakura, Static Noise Bird
With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

Deadline is Monday, September 22nd at 9:00 AM CST (GMT-6). This is an hour short of 2.5 days from now.

The mod approves of the current activity levels.

Sakura wrote:

So i'm lying about the Catch-22 and your circular logic? How so?

You are avoiding the fact that you made a claim which you said you had evidence for and ending up having none as I have not been trying to lynch everyone like you said I have. This means you are trying to scum painting me to avoid being lynched and are not scum hunting me as town. I already stated that you have lied because everything you said is too convenient. Only looking at the middle of the vote count and non of the bold and red text. A long with all your "reads" where people who voted you.

Sakura wrote:

"pretending" "lied" See your whole argument revolves around me lying and pretending to do stuff, but for it to actually work you'd need to assume that i'm scum and lying from the beginning, which means you're reacting to me scumreading you rather than because you think i'm scum.

You know not like TN claimed scum in your slot.... Also I have reasons to support my claim that you lied which makes it a valid statement.

Sakura wrote:

I'm not using the "I haven't caught up yet as a defense" If anything Drezi was attacking me for "posting stuff without being caught up".
So since you don't believe me, tell me what yould you do as town in a position where.

You say i'm lying about catching up, I say you're lying about me twisting your arguments (See what I did there)

I would not get into this situation. As town you decide to scum paint me to avoid being lynched (why do that?). You are arguing before reading thread. (why do that) And refuse to acknowledge what TN did (why?)

beeboy123 wrote:

You are avoiding the fact that you made a claim which you said you had evidence for and ending up having none as I have not been trying to lynch everyone like you said I have.

Sakura wrote:

Welp guess maybe i was wrong on the fact that you want a lynch on "anyone"

Much avoidance, very wow.

Anyway i'm really tired atm, feel free to leave me any questions i'll reply to them when I wake up and then continue catching up.

So I ask you a question and you respond with 2 walls where one sentence says I am right and the rest is another topic.

You told me to think about from your perspective and I tried but if you are really town think about it from mine isn't everything a little too coincidental?

I hate this, beeboy is acting like a different person now, and for the love of my life I have no clue if he's just scum parroting and sheeping or town trying to be confident for a change..

Read through everything I missed
It's 3 am right now
I'm not gonna quote anything in particular because there are too many posts and I'm on my phone right now

For the first four pages Sakura's posts were pretty BS, especially not checking the most recent posts and, more importantly, the most recent vote count. What is the benefit of reading from the very beginning, through 45 paged worth of information and start giving reads from there, from an "unbiased" point of view?

If you were town why not check the vote count first, see who is voting who, and look through their ISOs?

Also the vote on Drezi was really bad... unless you were scumreading Sephibro which you weren't.

Admittedly Sakura's posts do get better, but not gonna fall for it yet

Also beeboy is probably town, the attempted wagon is pretty bad imo

Oh yeah, Sona and Dake's posts are consistently outrageously terrible as well.
If you guys are town (aka Dake since he's still a null tell for me), please try harder

One thing I forgot to mention about Setsuen and Sakura, I'll post it tomorrow when I have a computer so I can actually quote stuff easily, just posting here as a reminder for myself

Frostings wrote:

One thing I forgot to mention about Setsuen and Sakura, I'll post it tomorrow when I have a computer so I can actually quote stuff easily, just posting here as a reminder for myself

I am tot scum with Sakura and it's town fault for not lynching tn5421 b4 Sakura replaced in. Oh noes i just outed it.

Too bad I'm a Secret Power VT role who CAN probably self-clear myself. My role Pm says I can target someone each night and something will happen to them. If it's a vig role, I'm targetting you N2.......... As long as it isn't fruit vendor role like Sonatora in GIF Bastard game z.z CB my role ability as a Secret power VT btr be good and it BETTER not be Ghoul in EM bc it would sux. Vig > Ghoul.

@beeboy:
Sakura has replied and still is replying to my question. If you'd be decent enough to actually READ what I asked her, then you'd understand that I wanted her opinion WHEN SHE'S (On the side note; Is Sakura female?) FINISHED reading the game. The only ones delaying this process are you and Drezi. Let Sakura at least finish reading before you start pointing fingers based on a post relating to pages from 1-20.

Gumica wrote:

I wanted her opinion WHEN SHE'S FINISHED reading the game. The only ones delaying this process are you and Drezi.

wat

Drezi wrote:

Forming an opinion without learning about the case you're getting involved in is what's being lazy. Instead of arguing without knowing what's up, read about it.

Drezi wrote:

there's no case where it's appropriate to scumpaint/vote without actually knowing the situation.

Sakura wrote:

and who's scared of a new pair of eyes looking over what's happened in a game? Hint: ----------SCUM--------

I WANT TO HAVE YOUR EYES LOOKING OVER WHAT'S HAPPENNED, that's what I've been trying to tell you the whole time :'D

Drezi wrote:

I don't want to mislynch you, that's why I'd expect town-Sakura to be ISO-ing and reading the main points of the thread right now, and coming up with good posts once you know enough, instead of posting non-relevant way outdated reads for the second time, and still being here arguing without a foundation

Drezi wrote:

So I STILL suggest that if you're town you stop arguing with me, and make your way through the thread instead, so you can actually make proper reads and quality posts to clear yourself.

Well my post was mostly directed towards beeboy, but you too, to some extent, i guess. Simply ignore her until she reads the game till the end. Commenting over her reads prior to reading the game to the end, I'd consider, quite pointless. Although, I would've understand your bitterness over that vote from Sakura

Setsuen wrote:

Raging Bull wrote:

@Drezi, if you really wanted to help Sakura, why don't you summarize stuff for her instead of calling her lazy?

lol. Does ANYONE notice how RB tends to push people to be active but NEVER FOSes them seriously for doing USELESS stuff? He's just basically avoiding a direct confrontation against Drezi. With this post while spurring Drezi to fight against Sakura more. Hidden intention found halp town didn't realise anything.

Eh my intent of that post was calling her lazy when no one (even me) helped Sakura summarize the game with 40 pages was not really called for. Man that's a null fucking tell.

Reads before I go.

Town:
NH (Short simple posts, but I feel like they help a lot)
Setsuen (hi)

null town
Gumica (nothing in posts really pings me, seems pretty good far as I remember)
Sakura (I really like the catch up posts. I don't think scum would be so dedicated to read through everything and seems to be in good detail)
Drezi (depends on Frosting, though pushing me because I didn't answer was good and after I replied he stopped because it's going to be wall vs wall to convince each other why our vote is not good)

null
Navizel (idk)
Dake (hasn't been doing much now)
SNB (I don't recall SNB doing really anything good.)

null scum
Sonatora (starting posting even worse imo)
Beeboy (mainly because of latest post)

scum
Frosting (idk anymore. Though I do like latest posts)

Feel like I lost momentum now.

Hey Navizel and SNB, what are your scum reads btw?

Gumica wrote:

Well my post was mostly directed towards beeboy, but you too, to some extent, i guess. Simply ignore her until she reads the game till the end. Commenting over her reads prior to reading the game to the end, I'd consider, quite pointless. Although, I would've understand your bitterness over that vote from Sakura

I read the thread so if I see something I don't like I will comment on it. As I said if Sakura wants to read the thread she could have said something. She chose to continue to argue with me and that is why I believe she is scum.

I really should reread posts again. Wait.

do you realize how badly you're parroting me beeboy?..

*page 42*
I'm sorry. I became lazy.
Sontora FoSing a null-town lol
@NH, scum me wouldn't say something like asking scum to NK Setsuen.
I really feel like this Drezi vs Sakura is town vs town.
So Drezi claims lynchproof.. if this is true then mine + drezi's make town look op. Then again, there's the contract that will make town VT.
Vote: beeboy
*currently reading the last 2-3 pages*

I don't claim lynchproof, I'm simply don't believe that Sakura can get me mislynched when I'm town.

Oh ok

I simply* wah it's getting annoying that I can't correct mistakes that happen after rephrasing some parts..

Raging Bull wrote:

Hey Navizel and SNB, what are your scum reads btw?

Ah,
beeboy and Drezi.

1. This post and the following Drezi post.
   I haven't read Sakura's reason for "baseless scumread" on Drezi yet, but holy shit those posts just radiate of suspicious feels, no matter what's the case. Gang up on Sakura much? I also like Navi's townread right between the posts of beeboy and Drezi.
2. The posts where "Drezi is confused about beeboy"
   I mean, I get the "Please stop that, don't get yourself lynched beeboy"-feel out of them.
   
   oh and after them, this happens:
3. beeboy sheeping Drezi > both are scumpainting Sakura? "Arguing = Scum lols".

Static Noise Bird wrote:

Gang up on Sakura much?

Sakura's slot has been my main scumread since I joined the game, come again?

Static Noise Bird wrote:

[*]The posts where "Drezi is confused about beeboy"
I mean, I get the "Please stop that, don't get yourself lynched beeboy"-feel out of them.[/list]

You probably don't understand my frustration there because you can't read other people anyway, if you're town and this is the impression you get from that post.

I'd lynch beeboy out of the sheer fact that scum probably won't kill him due to the way he plays and I won't be able to read that normally either and it could get problematic later.. But since you've been my second scumread and you appear to be ok with a beeboy lynch, I'd actually prefer Sona for the same reason, should we decide to make such a lynch.

Just woke up, and Frosting's buddying up to beeboy (not surprising), anyway gonna continue catching up first I wanna comment on a few things:

- I like replying to current stuff while catching up because the current stuff is actual info that's also on the table for me to generate reads, granted if stuff that i suspect has been explained previously all you need is to say "I already explained that, when you catch up you'll see" or some sort of thing like Drezi did.

- I'm better at getting reads via interaction, my reads that I get from what i discuss with people can and will be stronger than the reads i get from my catch up due to this fact.

- If i read who's voting me, i'll see their positions on the wagon and im already going to think that the 2nd and 3rd votes (I can explain why specifically the 2nd and 3rd votes if anyone wants detailed data with statistics) have a high chance to be scum so it's better if I get a read on them first from their actual play before I check along with the reasons for voting me as they happened in real time.

I hope this answers everyone's questions, now im gonna continue reading.

Given I used to scumread tn, it's still hard for me to change my read on Sakura, though I'll give some time before blatantly say we should lynch her because tn lolclaimed scum and stuff (hi beeboy).

I have to agree Sakura brought something that caught my attention, which is beeboy not directly pushing for a lynch, but wanting people to be modkilled, Setsuen did the same yeah, but that's their usual self so yeah, he can have a pass for it.

@Sakura, I have to thank you for remember me about the flavor claim I was suggesting, as alignment isn't related to character we could hope for some counterclaimings or some flavour cop to do his job, but I think it's already a bit late for it,

Frostings with his usual slight pushing on me, which is not bad, but I feel somehow not comfy with that, it's true I haven't posted lately, but hell, we all have our reasons to drop activity a bit.

I used to have a nice townread on Drezi, but his last post is really bad:

I'd lynch beeboy out of the sheer fact that scum probably won't kill him due to the way he plays and I won't be able to read that normally either and it could get problematic later.. But since you've been my second scumread and you appear to be ok with a beeboy lynch, I'd actually prefer Sona for the same reason, should we decide to make such a lynch.

Why Sona over beeboy? Why don't you think SNB could be scum along with beeboy?

DakeDekaane wrote:

@Sakura, I have to thank you for remember me about the flavor claim I was suggesting, as alignment isn't related to character we could hope for some counterclaimings or some flavour cop to do his job, but I think it's already a bit late for it

My flavor is always with me anyways.

DakeDekaane wrote:

Why Sona over beeboy? Why don't you think SNB could be scum along with beeboy?

Because I don't think SNB would be scumreading beeboy if they were scumbuddies, nothing overly complicated.

Drezi wrote:

TBH I have trouble reading Sona and beeboy, usually I try to figure why people posted what they did, but they feel too random or I don't know..

Both of them are in the same ballpark for me, I can't make sense of their play, I can't be sure if they are just being bad or scummy, and I wouldn't like being in Lylo with them, and Sakura is scumreading beeboy too, and I don't trust her just yet. That makes me lean towards Sona out of the two.

Makes sense, and tbh even if they're distancing each other I doubt both are scum, thanks for explaining.

Going on:

Frostings wrote:

we're... lynching you lol

or SNB obviously

Once again unexplained stuff

Frostings wrote:

You voted for yourself for no reason and say that I'M the one that's trolling?

Pot meets Kettle, you also self-voted and have done very little to progress the game so far.

Frostings wrote:

Sonatora wrote:

I'm not trolling there.

I really wanted to get lynched off but I have to fix this clusterfuck first

what clusterfuck exactly

and why do you want to get lynched? Being useless for town is not a reason

You're not getting lynched because you're useless, you're useless because you're wanting to get lynched

For once Frostings says something that i agree with, however the tone feels like he knows Sonatora's town, or he's legit townreading him which doesnt make sense with how he wants him to get lynched.

Setsuen wrote:

which btw in EpicMafia... why me = fry me.

This also applues on MS just saying.

Sonatora wrote:

Vote: Sephibro

Lemme help ya there tn-senpai

Once I heard a tale, it was a tale about sheeps, and then there was a wolf, disguised as a sheep, are you that wolf?

Static Noise Bird wrote:

Sonatora wrote:

Vote: Sephibro

Lemme help ya there tn-senpai

Considering Sona even more a scum now.

Also I seriously wonder what the fuck is Frostings doing. If it's a "gut feeling", then it's a damn terrible one.

So much this... SO FRICKEN MUCH THIS!, gut says that if SNB sees what im seeing he's probs town.

Frostings wrote:

also I still have FoS on SNB obviously

This is getting old, why not take your rage to an osu! multiplayer room instead of making FoS that makes no sense, this isn't town play.
Oh nice Gumica has some thoughts on the game, im going to comment on each independently
Put them in a box tag to avoid cluttering this post more than it needs to be.

Navizel wrote:

One-sentence = scum
Walls = town

What kind of mentality is that.

Excuse me but 1 sentence IS scum, I agree that walls dont equal town tho. A proper analysis can't be given with one-liners and a bunch of them clutter the thread making it harder to see actual analysis.
I'm starting to wonder how a Scumhunter's Speed game would fare in here.
@Setsuen: How do you figure the difference between scum lurking and town lurking? I've never been able to figure that out myself and end up making bad calls because of it.
p/3372105 hahaha nice image Gumica, this made my day.

Setsuen wrote:

Your argument is horrible and lurking is only PART of the reason why they are scum. If you can't understand that just start sheeping instead of arguing.

I'm pretty sure by this point Gumica's not lurking anymore and actively engaging when you were discussing with him, if he goes back to lurking again this might hold some water tho.
Tho then I agree with Gumica that gut reading in itself isn't enough, specially if you dont say which posts give you said gut reading, I know I gut read ppl a lot and it's for the most part accurate but my main issue is explaining where such reads come from.

Frostings wrote:

oh yeah that

Setsuen wrote:

It might be possible that he self-voted when I claimed my real role of Secret power VT so that he can "magically" make me assume that he's VT

Yep, that's pretty much it

So ok i'm wrong on Frosty, what's new. (Yes Frosty is town, i realize this now)
Drezi's statements check, he's really been scumreading my slot since his replace in.

Taking a small break, will continue in about an hour, read up to page 29, but im townreading Frosty now for reasons i wont explain yet because they are more beneficial to scum than town.

Sakura wrote:

Taking a small break, will continue in about an hour

Scratch that I got dragged to watch a friend stream League of Legends >.<

Sakura wrote:

Gumica wrote:

- DD is being DD.

Explain? Becaue so far i think he's been quite pro town.

Well, DD is DD. How can i explain that lol :^)
He sometimes posts short posts, sometimes not. Sometimes they're amusing, sometimes not. Sometimes he feels scum, sometimes not.
Generally I can relate to him and his classy writting style. I mainly consider him null by, because my opinion of him really swings (from town to scum and vice versa) every time he posts.

@Sakura, I don't think there's a difference about how long my posts are when I'm town or scum lol (I'm just a bad player)

Navizel wrote:

@Sakura, I don't think there's a difference about how long my posts are when I'm town or scum lol (I'm just a bad player)

If you're town then you need to improve.
If you're scum then you need to die.

I know you're quite a wild card and also would prefer not resorting to your lynch yet, there are other ways to sort you out anyway.

Gonna continue catching up.

Navizel reaction to my accusation to him on lurking is the same as the one in the newbie mafia where he was scum for everyone's info. I believe I stated that already but people choose to "leave it out". So typical of scums and lousy town.

I rarely get town :c

PL Navizel

Raging Bull wrote:

Hey Navizel and SNB, what are your scum reads btw?

I cri