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[Video Tutorial] Advanced Timing

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Topic Starter
Charles445
I've been getting a lot of in-game and forum PMs recently asking for timing help.
My inbox is starting to fill with stuff like this.



I can't time them all, so this tutorial is going to cover how I handle timing on beatmaps.

In order to time a beatmap, one must first figure out what sort of timing the map calls for. This can be Single, Multiple, or Variable.

Below are Youtube videos detailing each.


Single BPM

Using two sections to get the best BPM setting possible.



If my ramblings didn't make any sense, here's a text explanation of the Advanced Single BPM Tutorial.

You want to create two red timing sections near the beginning of the song and near the end of the song.
Don't worry about their BPM just yet, what's most important is to make sure their offsets are on existing beats, so when the metronome passes over the red timing sections it makes a click on time with the song.

Once both timing sections are placed on beats within the song, you can then go back to the very first timing section and mess with the BPM of it.
The main idea is that if the BPM of the first section is correct, when the song reaches the second timing section, the next beat will be exactly where the second red timing section is.

Huh that sounds confusing
Let me try an example

Let's say the first timing section has an offset of 0, and the second timing section has an offset of, oh, 100000
The first section has a BPM that sounds right but slowly goes horribly wrong by the end of the song.
If we delete the second timing section and try to scroll to that same place (100000) using the first section, it might be in the wrong place, like 100200.
That means the timing is getting 200 ms off! (wow). This means we should change the BPM of the first timing section till that beat is at 100000 ms at that very part.
Multiple BPM

Detecting and fixing BPM changes.




Variable BPM

Taking it slowly and fixing as you move forward.




If you have any other questions about timing, please post them here and I will answer as many as possible.
Sync
very well thought out and practical techniques.

stickied
Nyquill
Sync admin abused
Love
Charles I love you.
Distant years
thank you so much for this!
_dog
Very well done tutorials. <3 Charles
Faust
\:D/
lolcubes
Interesting, I do these differently haha.
But yeah I am not sure if listening to metronome ticks is always the best idea, for me they are always off ;_; (4~7ms too early). Still good enough to get the basic timing done though.
Topic Starter
Charles445

lolcubes wrote:

But yeah I am not sure if listening to metronome ticks is always the best idea, for me they are always off ;_; (4~7ms too early).
They ARE off, that's why you listen to them multiple times and try to get a higher framerate :D
If it sounds early, accurate, and late at the same time, chances are it's properly timed.
[CSGA]Ar3sgice
☆⌒(*ˆ-゜)v
lolcubes
I mean in general. Everytime I get ~5ms early on the metronome, it's just about perfect normally. ;)
I use default normal hitsounds and circles on several key spots on the map though, after finding the basic bpm through tapping (I seem to get the BPM right with tapping though hehe).
Faust

lolcubes wrote:

I mean in general. Everytime I get ~5ms early on the metronome, it's just about perfect normally. ;)
I use default normal hitsounds and circles on several key spots on the map though, after finding the basic bpm through tapping (I seem to get the BPM right with tapping though hehe).
Usually how I do things as well, rarely do I deviate from this method.

Sometimes I just have denominators included in the BPM eg. 164.25 to test waters.
BeatofIke
Very awesome! That's a clever way to find the BPM and offset! :D
Gonzvlo
I time stuff in a different way but I'll try these techniques the next time. Thanks Charles, awesome!

my ears D:

EDIT: Forgot to mention, this should be translated into other languages. (with Charles permission, of course)
jonathanlfj
wow this tutorial is amazing :)
its sad how i learned more about using shortcuts in the editor than the actual timing techniques in the video
Tari
Awesome, :D

-Needs to try this when I time my next map-
Topic Starter
Charles445

Gonzvlo wrote:

EDIT: Forgot to mention, this should be translated into other languages. (with Charles permission, of course)
That'd be great!
Sakura
Actually it'd be better if it was on the wiki, it's easier to handle different languages there.

Also you could add subtitles (i think youtube allows that?) even english CC for people that arent good at listening to english but can understand by reading.
Zexous
Variable BPMs
Kill me
Deni

Charles445 wrote:

Gonzvlo wrote:

EDIT: Forgot to mention, this should be translated into other languages. (with Charles permission, of course)
That'd be great!
I am willing to translate the videos into german! (by adding subtitles) ;)

Just tell me where I should upload them.. I thought you want to create an extra Youtube Channel for the tutorials?


Has been settled..
UnitedWeSin
Charles too pro. (:
Shohei Ohtani
Timing at a microscopic level
[Luanny]

Sakura wrote:

Actually it'd be better if it was on the wiki, it's easier to handle different languages there.

Also you could add subtitles (i think youtube allows that?) even english CC for people that arent good at listening to english but can understand by reading.
^This, please
D33d
Good stuff. Of course, the biggest limitation here is patience and it's why I can never bring myself to time complicated things. Besides that, timing these things accurately will still result in a map that's awkward to play, given that the approach circles will jitter all over the place. To quote from 'War Games,' "The only winning move is not to play." Of course, songs with fewer changes, such as older studio tracks which have been stitched together awkwardly, will still feel quite playable.

It should also be noted that, even if a line or part of the rhythm goes out of time, it may drift back into time almost instantly. Vocals do this a lot, as a lot of singers will swing their lines or otherwise sound "natural" over a rigid beat, so it's worth paying close attention to parts where it's actually better to ignore the fluctuation. A reasonable overall difficulty will let the player hit slightly early or late.

On another note, mm once pondered about the possibility of a time-stretch tool, which could read all of the red sections in a map and even out all of the timing changes. If done properly and with automatic crossfading, this would ensure that songs would have consistent timings and the maps would be much more readable. The person who makes such a thing would earn my undying respect.

Obviously, this wouldn't be appropriate for songs which are based around rubato. Why are people even mapping these things!?
Topic Starter
Charles445
Added subtitles to "Single" and "Multiple", will subtitle "Variable" when I'm not tired.

D33d wrote:

Besides that, timing these things accurately will still result in a map that's awkward to play, given that the approach circles will jitter all over the place.
It can be done. It just needs to be carefully handled by the mapper.

D33d wrote:

It should also be noted that, even if a line or part of the rhythm goes out of time, it may drift back into time almost instantly. Vocals do this a lot, as a lot of singers will swing their lines or otherwise sound "natural" over a rigid beat, so it's worth paying close attention to parts where it's actually better to ignore the fluctuation.
Do not fall into this trap. I have seen people put literally 30 ms off objects just because the timing switches right back a tick later. Off timing is off timing and it should be handled, not ignored.


D33d wrote:

On another note, mm once pondered about the possibility of a time-stretch tool, which could read all of the red sections in a map and even out all of the timing changes. If done properly and with automatic crossfading, this would ensure that songs would have consistent timings and the maps would be much more readable. The person who makes such a thing would earn my undying respect.

This sounds like it would mess with the audio and could make a song sound really really weird. Personally, I'd avoid this.
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