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Flashlight mod behavior

posted
Total Posts
46

Should Flashlight mod behavior change?

Keep it as it is
61
31.77%
Change it so that visible area doesn't get too small on higher combos (and keep the shrinking behavior)
15
7.81%
Change it so that visible area is constant disregarding combo (any size will do as long as it's reasonable)
38
19.79%
Change it according to beatmap difficulty setting (AR, CS, OD, and/or it's unique settings)
11
5.73%
Combination of option 3 and 4
14
7.29%
Other changes suggestions (please post)
6
3.12%
Remove Flashlight mod
47
24.48%
Total votes: 192
Winshley
osu! Alumni
2,384 posts
Joined May 2011
Topic Starter
Winshley
A sequel of my previous poll.

As a Flashlight player myself, I actually find current Flashlight mod behavior a little harsh on higher combos, especially above 200 combos where Flashlight will have the smallest visible area. This causes impact on maps with higher combo and/or lengthy songs.

What do you think?
Last edited by Winshley , edited 1 time in total.
Almost
2,154 posts
Joined May 2012
Almost
Having a ever shrinking visible area is what makes FL challenging.
NixXSkate
785 posts
Joined February 2011
NixXSkate
i personally think that the flashlight view area should be based on the total combo of the song, not just 100 or 200 combo. like, maybe if you have 50% or 75% of the song FCd, the view area will get smaller, something like that. although i really don't think the system now is that bad.

PS- NO i don't think the view area is too small
Last edited by NixXSkate , edited 2 times in total.
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
That's what makes Flashlight very difficult. After a certain combo, Flashlight forces you to memorize the map instead of merely having faster reaction time.
With a larger FL radius, you don't have to necessarily memorize the note positions.
Vish024
2,640 posts
Joined December 2010
Vish024

enquire wrote:

Having a ever shrinking visible area is what makes FL challenging.
kriers
1,963 posts
Joined April 2010
kriers
I'd prefer it if the area was super tiny at all times

One of the worst things about playing FL to me is losing that 200x combo sight radius whenever I break combo. Takes hours to memorize anything that way unless I split up the difficulty in editor and make tiny 1/32 repeat sliders to regain 200x. Some patterns I just can't remember otherwise.
GoldenWolf
2,983 posts
Joined May 2012
GoldenWolf

kriers wrote:

I'd prefer it if the area was super tiny at all times
^
Kurangceret
69 posts
Joined May 2012
Kurangceret
I think i want the an extra mod where the flashlight area will always tiny regardless of the combo, so i can practice more effectively.(thats for me at least)
also please do not remove FL.
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF

kriers wrote:

I'd prefer it if the area was super tiny at all times
t/107499
winber1
4,519 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1

MillhioreF wrote:

kriers wrote:

I'd prefer it if the area was super tiny at all times
t/107499
best skin 2012

but on topic

NixXSkate wrote:

i personally think that the flashlight view area should be based on the total combo of the song, not just 100 or 200 combo. like, maybe if you have 50% or 75% of the song FCd, the view area will get smaller, something like that. although i really don't think the system now is that bad.

PS- NO i don't think the view area is too small
^
basically

and like he said, the current way works fine for me... since i don't play it.... LOL
Deni
Deni
If you make the FL mod easier than it was, it would be unfair on the people that worked hard to pass maps with the old FL mod.
Last edited by lolcubes , edited 2 times in total.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
Cleaned up the topic. Please stop shitposting and write in coherent English so we can understand each other.
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire
The view area shrinking at 100x and 200x combo and then "any misses increasing the area again" is exactly what makes FL so hard IMO. It's not consistent so you have to make the conversion to memory of what you see first, rather than what you don't (which a permanent-small-area would do).

I can't learn FL for this very reason, I can play it fine until I hit the sudden 200x and miss. So I never get to "practice" with a small area, so despite my own desire to have the mod made easier to learn, I'd rather it was left as is, because it would become easier to learn for everyone... and the process of conversion to memory would change subtly. Some players have the ability to remember what they've seen, some don't. Doesn't mean it can't be learnt, it's just different to what would be the expected method of learning (guessing and "memorising correct guesses"). Alot of players play like this already, including the OP. (eg. 5k plays on symphonic love)

Only change I would possibly agree with would be making the area shrink at a constant rate until 200x (eliminating the "surprise" factor). Although I'm not too sure myself about this. So it's probably better off left as it is.
Last edited by RaneFire , edited 2 times in total.
Kanye West
2,222 posts
Joined July 2011
Kanye West
Why does Flashlight even exist in the first place?
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes
Why does DT exist? It's just for people that can only play fast shit and can't remember anything, the mod should be removed.
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire

Kanye West wrote:

Why does Flashlight even exist in the first place?
I thought it was cool at first when I first started playing, but I've changed my opinion since then lol. I'd like it to be removed, but at the same time I wish I could play it as well. Hence leave it as is.
ColdTooth
1,107 posts
Joined June 2012
ColdTooth
It's fine the way it is.

Flashlight mod is supposed to give it a challenge. At least it doesn't continue to shrink after 300, or else we could only see our cursor.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
It's free points for memorising the map
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes
I'm really sick of people getting free points for having good rhythm and reflexes. HR should be nerfed.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
it should.

it'd be better if there were separate rankings for the mods rather than adding bonus score to them.
Almost
2,154 posts
Joined May 2012
Almost

buny wrote:

It's free points for memorising the map
Memorizing is also a skill in itself.
ColdTooth
1,107 posts
Joined June 2012
ColdTooth
It depends on memorizing the map.

Adding Double Time means you have to go faster (obviously) by memorizing the pattern.

Adding Hard Rock is flipped, can take maybe up to 10 - 20 tries memorizing the map itself.

Adding Hidden gets even worse while trying memorizing the map. (Is this why they added combo trails in between combos like 1 - 2 - 3 - 4?) You don't really know where most notes could be unless you really know the map by heart.
RaneFire
1,181 posts
Joined May 2011
RaneFire

VinylDash14 wrote:

It depends on memorizing the map.

Adding Double Time means you have to go faster (obviously) by memorizing the pattern.

Adding Hard Rock is flipped, can take maybe up to 10 - 20 tries memorizing the map itself.

Adding Hidden gets even worse while trying memorizing the map. (Is this why they added combo trails in between combos like 1 - 2 - 3 - 4?) You don't really know where most notes could be unless you really know the map by heart.
I'm guessing this is all in reference to FL, since each one of these by themselves are trainable to a point where they are a part of you and not really "map specific" - whereas FL is pretty map specific. That's what most people moan about, FL is the retry mod for a map within your skill limit. You do pay for it with time though, so it's only effective if you can reduce the time it takes to make each score.

This actually sounds like deja vu. I remember a thread discussing how FL players take longer to make scores, so it all equals out in the end. (or is the pp system in the process of breaking that?)
Almost
2,154 posts
Joined May 2012
Almost

RaneFire wrote:

I'm guessing this is all in reference to FL, since each one of these by themselves are trainable to a point where they are a part of you and not really "map specific" - whereas FL is pretty map specific. That's what most people moan about, FL is the retry mod for a map within your skill limit. You do pay for it with time though, so it's only effective if you can reduce the time it takes to make each score.
FL is actually kind of trainable to the extent of being able to FC other maps a tiny bit faster.
Thatgooey
165 posts
Joined November 2011
Thatgooey

buny wrote:

it should.

it'd be better if there were separate rankings for the mods rather than adding bonus score to them.
Because it makes total sense to completely take a fun, challenging mod out of a game, just because it makes some numbers you get for a full combo larger, and it hurts your feelings that someone's number is bigger than yours.

Someone puts 100 plays into a 500 note song with flashlight to learn the map, and then another 100 to do it with hidden. They spend a whole day on it even, practicing and learning a map. The final performance is a HD/FL full combo on a map they worked on. It's a satisfying feeling getting a hd/fl. It's like memorizing a piano solo. No sheet music to read. It's honestly not all that different. FL mod is very challenging, and should reward players accordingly.

There are many players now who can do a map with hd/hr or dt/hd with VERY few tries, if not a single try, with near perfect accuracy and a full combo. What is there to challenge these players further, if not a device that forces you to actually LEARN a map? There is a difference between reading and performing.

Flashlight mod is a performance. It's impressive. It belongs in the game.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

Thatgooey wrote:

buny wrote:

it should.

it'd be better if there were separate rankings for the mods rather than adding bonus score to them.
Because it makes total sense to completely take a fun, challenging mod out of a game, just because it makes some numbers you get for a full combo larger, and it hurts your feelings that someone's number is bigger than yours.

Someone puts 100 plays into a 500 note song with flashlight to learn the map, and then another 100 to do it with hidden. They spend a whole day on it even, practicing and learning a map. The final performance is a HD/FL full combo on a map they worked on. It's a satisfying feeling getting a hd/fl. It's like memorizing a piano solo. No sheet music to read. It's honestly not all that different. FL mod is very challenging, and should reward players accordingly.

There are many players now who can do a map with hd/hr or dt/hd with VERY few tries, if not a single try, with near perfect accuracy and a full combo. What is there to challenge these players further, if not a device that forces you to actually LEARN a map? There is a difference between reading and performing.

Flashlight mod is a performance. It's impressive. It belongs in the game.
Flashlight is a gimmicky way of increasing difficulty.
Never said I cared that fl gave more score, sure you deserve points for memorising a map but be honest, it is free points. My suggestion was to segregate all mods by a separate ranking not just fl so don't give special treatment for fl.

Also I'm surprised how offended you are when I lightly insult fl, makes me chuckle.
Purple
467 posts
Joined May 2011
Purple
The poll options should have been limited to the first 3..
she_old
she_old
Flashlight and Hidden are understanding the map, Hard Rock and Double Time are changing the map to make it harder(or easier for some).
You could argue about hard rock or double time being easier, I think that FL is fine as it is, maybe keep the area at the smallest from the start?
Lance
626 posts
Joined August 2010
Lance
I can't see FL being adjusted really. Either it will remain as is (likely) or will be removed (unlikely). I've always liked the idea of a new mod where the cursor disappears over time...
she_old
she_old
There was also a beta Black Hole mod or something, your cursor gets covered by a black overlay, kinda like an inverted FL.
eldnl
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
2,930 posts
Joined March 2010
eldnl

buny wrote:

Flashlight is a gimmicky way of increasing difficulty.
Never said I cared that fl gave more score, sure you deserve points for memorising a map but be honest, it is free points. My suggestion was to segregate all mods by a separate ranking not just fl so don't give special treatment for fl.

Also I'm surprised how offended you are when I lightly insult fl, makes me chuckle.
free points? so funny.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
So in short, people who can't play it complain, and people who can don't. Noted.

Also keep it as it is imo.
Vish024
2,640 posts
Joined December 2010
Vish024
I still don't get why people would like it removed, because it's too difficult? Removing it would also mean resetting millions of scores and further controversy. It's fine the way it is, if you can't play with it then adapt to it.
Thatgooey
165 posts
Joined November 2011
Thatgooey

buny wrote:

Flashlight is a gimmicky way of increasing difficulty.
Never said I cared that fl gave more score, sure you deserve points for memorising a map but be honest, it is free points. My suggestion was to segregate all mods by a separate ranking not just fl so don't give special treatment for fl.

Also I'm surprised how offended you are when I lightly insult fl, makes me chuckle.
You said it's "free points", as if no work whatsoever goes into getting more points out of the map by actually learning the map. You have to work pretty damn hard to get those "free" points. That's a pretty big insult to flashlight players. You didn't lightly insult it, you dismissed it altogether. If the points are so free, why doesn't everyone go and pick them up?

Also, you seem to ONLY care about the fact that it gives higher score based on what you said. That's the only thing you even addressed is that you don't like how you get more points for memorizing the map. You solution is to separate all of the mods into different categories, but there is already a button on the top40 list to exclude mod scores. It just sounds like you are whining about how you can't just play a map 5 times and have the top score, because someone put in 100 tries and a whole session into learning the map to beat you.

I used to think just like you once upon a time, about how flashlight players were so annoying and took top scores. All they did was memorize the map, and it didn't matter if I hd/hr it perfectly, I wasn't going to beat the hd/fl score. Then I actually tried to HD/FL myself, and after an hour of failing understood why they deserve a better score than I did. It takes a lot more patience, dedication, work, and focus to play that way than it does to play hd/hr. I respect the FL player now. I honestly think more people should start playing it. It helps a lot with learning to focus properly. I would not dismiss it as a legitimate mod.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
First off: I never said I was annoyed by flashlight players, or them taking up whatever rank they want. I don't even care about rank.

Addressing that it gives higher score doesn't necessarily mean that I it concerns me or not, that is something that you decided upon yourself and thus still continuing to argue with me in an opinion vs opinion argument.
A separate score list for each mod would be a very handy feature for finding specific plays.
You're still telling yourself that I care about score even when I've specifically said I didn't care.

tl;dr your argument is built upon opinion against my opinion and jumping to conclusions without analyzing anything I wrote

No need to argue anymore.


Also to keep this ontopic: I think flashlight should have a consistent flashlight area (option 3), since it is frustrating practicing flashlight and having to retry due to combo breaks or at least have a flashlight mod that doesn't take into account the break
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes

buny wrote:

Flashlight is a gimmicky way of increasing difficulty.
Never said I cared that fl gave more score, sure you deserve points for memorising a map but be honest, it is free points. My suggestion was to segregate all mods by a separate ranking not just fl so don't give special treatment for fl.
SPOILER
Honestly, go back to passing freedom dive instead of shitposting all over gameplay & rankings
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

JappyBabes wrote:

buny wrote:

Flashlight is a gimmicky way of increasing difficulty.
Never said I cared that fl gave more score, sure you deserve points for memorising a map but be honest, it is free points. My suggestion was to segregate all mods by a separate ranking not just fl so don't give special treatment for fl.
SPOILER
Honestly, go back to passing freedom dive instead of shitposting all over gameplay & rankings
Implying posts like these where you harass me nonstop isn't shitposting, I can't believe you're still butthurt that somebody lower rank than you can pass it.

Last post in this thread seeing as how I've already left my opinion on the topic on my recent post.
Winshley
osu! Alumni
2,384 posts
Joined May 2011
Topic Starter
Winshley
Chill, guys. I made this thread to share your opinions, so please don't derail this thread just because you can't accept opinions from others.

buny may say that Flashlight mod gives free score points, that's his/her opinion anyway. As a Flashlight player myself, I have to accept it anyway, even if it's insulting or not.
Last edited by Winshley , edited 2 times in total.
pielak213
463 posts
Joined April 2010
pielak213
­
Last edited by pielak213 , edited 1 time in total.
JappyBabes
666 posts
Joined February 2011
JappyBabes
Let's explain how modifications in this game work (most of this will be about difficult maps, not 120BPM hards etc.):

FL is in an entirely different category different compared to HR and DT. It is purely mental and does not actually effect the map, same for HD. This is not a matter of opinion. The only discussion to be had is which of the easier mods are harder and the same goes for the hard mods however that is entirely map dependent (the same goes for HD+HR vs DT or FL which in almost every case I'd say the single hard mod is more difficult). There are a lot of people that seem to think because a mod such as DT isn't possible in practice on a map such as Chipscape that is theoretically possible to play with FL, it automatically makes DT a superior mod (same goes for HR/HD) without realizing that they compared theory to practice. There are only two people who have currently FCd and I know that neither of them can FC w/ DT or FL no matter how many times they attempt the map.

FL should probably be changed so the active areas are relative to how far you are in the map. Also I hope most people that make these sorts of threads realize that peppy will change nothing.

buny wrote:

Implying posts like these where you harass me nonstop isn't shitposting, I can't believe you're still butthurt that somebody lower rank than you can pass it.
I could probably pass anything if I cheated.
Last edited by JappyBabes , edited 1 time in total.
Winshley
osu! Alumni
2,384 posts
Joined May 2011
Topic Starter
Winshley

JappyBabes wrote:

Also I hope most people that make these sorts of threads realize that peppy will change nothing.
^ This, else I would have made a thread on Feature Suggestions section rather than Gameplay & Rankings section. If I were to suggest anything related to this thread, there will be people who would accept and people who would complain.

Which is why I would rather review community opinions than jumping to giving suggestions that people might not going to accept. The fact that the community prefers "Keeping Flashlight mod behavior as it is" a lot more than the rest proves this.
CaCtus112
227 posts
Joined May 2011
CaCtus112
keep it as it is, but fix that gamma thing <3
GoldenWolf
2,983 posts
Joined May 2012
GoldenWolf
The only thing that bugs me with FL is the area becoming smaller, it's like if with DT the song start normally and become faster after X combo, or with HR the circles become smaller etc ...
I don't really understand this, why FL is "different" from the other mods ?

But that's just my opinion.
Nemis
854 posts
Joined May 2012
Nemis

NixXSkate wrote:

i personally think that the flashlight view area should be based on the total combo of the song, not just 100 or 200 combo.
I agree! The area should be based on the % of the song and not on combos.
DeletedUser_910779
DeletedUser_910779
.
Last edited by DeletedUser_910779 , edited 1 time in total.
Almost
2,154 posts
Joined May 2012
Almost

Soly wrote:

As for it's current behavior I think it's fine as it is.
The only issue I see at the moment are really short songs (those less than a minute) are way too easy to complete with flashlight that pretty much no memory is needed at all.
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