mod: replace kuwarudo and Pasonia if we dont see more activity from them in D2

i dunno why you guys decided to off strager instead of me, but im not altogether sure that strager is scum. he tends to have a reason to his crazy patterns, although i spose that reason could be mafia i would rather have more reason to be sure of it today.

kuwarudo, Pasonia please post more so we can actually have something to go on other than Pasonia's self-preservation, which as ive already said is kinda scummy.

rust is obviously a noob, he may be mafia or may not be mafia, but he's acting a bit like strager did in M2, minus the roleclaim.

Wojjan seems to have gone to the numbering system to try to figure out who is scum and who isnt, or possibly who would make a good lynch. hes also been corrected on the "mafia dont know each other" thing twice now, but i think he'd be intell-gah WIFOM


LS and adam havent really swung one way or the other in my mind as to whether scum or town yet. My conclusion is the person i suspect most is Pasonia right now

unvote
vote Pasonia

LadySuburu, your main reasons for voting for me are outlined in the following posts:

viewtopic.php?p=152992#p152992
viewtopic.php?p=153782#p153782

Of me acting like kuu, I would appreciate specific examples. Even with supporting posts I doubt that's reason enough to vote for someone.

In the second post above, you show that rust45, SFG, and I (and to a lesser extend 0_o) are all pretty suspicious by our jumping on bandwagons. With the recent L-1 vote against me by rust45 (which you say looks pretty random) has your level of suspicion not changed? rust45 now has made two L-1 votes, whereas I have not made any. You explicitly mention that putting L-1 without reason is scummy: viewtopic.php?p=153787#p153787

SFG, What are your opinions on 0_o?

strager wrote:

SFG, What are your opinions on 0_o?

ahh i KNEW i was forgetting someone...

0_o needs to post more, no opinion yet on him other than that

strager wrote:

LadySuburu, your main reasons for voting for me are outlined in the following posts:

viewtopic.php?p=152992#p152992
viewtopic.php?p=153782#p153782

Of me acting like kuu, I would appreciate specific examples. Even with supporting posts I doubt that's reason enough to vote for someone.

In the second post above, you show that rust45, SFG, and I (and to a lesser extend 0_o) are all pretty suspicious by our jumping on bandwagons. With the recent L-1 vote against me by rust45 (which you say looks pretty random) has your level of suspicion not changed? rust45 now has made two L-1 votes, whereas I have not made any. You explicitly mention that putting L-1 without reason is scummy: viewtopic.php?p=153787#p153787

Main reasons for voting: If you trace through some of our conversations, you'll find there are other posts that have my reasons included as well. Example: My post on Page 10, and the resulting conversation from that.

Acting like kuu: You weren't acting as I know you to act, which is apperently less than I thought. You were acting much different than how you are now acting in defense.

rust45: Yes, he's raised in suspision. No, he's not as high as you yet, but he's close.

If others were for a rust lynch today, I wouldn't mind one either. At the moment, you are still slightly more suspicious in my mind, which is why I'm still voting for you.

LadySuburu wrote:

Main reasons for voting: If you trace through some of our conversations, you'll find there are other posts that have my reasons included as well. Example: My post on Page 10, and the resulting conversation from that.

The exact same reasoning could be applied to rust45 and SFG for tie-ing votes as well. I think rust45 even started the tie-ing thing (unsure).

"setting a trend to get many people near lynch" -- I didn't really set the trend I think. I did start the "vote for yourself as a joke" thing which SFG followed.

LadySuburu wrote:

Acting like kuu: You weren't acting as I know you to act, which is apperently less than I thought. You were acting much different than how you are now acting in defense.

If you're referring to my acting in M2, of course I'm acting differently. I'm in a different situation. I don't have a false role claim on my head, I'm not being heavily attacked by one or more highly skilled players very well, and I'm not a newbie. Again, I would like specific examples else your claim is worthless in my eyes.

strager wrote:

LadySuburu wrote:

Main reasons for voting: If you trace through some of our conversations, you'll find there are other posts that have my reasons included as well. Example: My post on Page 10, and the resulting conversation from that.

The exact same reasoning could be applied to rust45 and SFG for tie-ing votes as well. I think rust45 even started the tie-ing thing (unsure).

"setting a trend to get many people near lynch" -- I didn't really set the trend I think. I did start the "vote for yourself as a joke" thing which SFG followed.

LadySuburu wrote:

Acting like kuu: You weren't acting as I know you to act, which is apperently less than I thought. You were acting much different than how you are now acting in defense.

If you're referring to my acting in M2, of course I'm acting differently. I'm in a different situation. I don't have a false role claim on my head, I'm not being heavily attacked by one or more highly skilled players very well, and I'm not a newbie. Again, I would like specific examples else your claim is worthless in my eyes.

1: I'll check to see who for sure started the near-lynch trend. I'll also see how involved you were in it.

2: I'm not going to grab any specific examples, because you've already made a statement (see: underlined above) that makes me think there's absolutely no point in doing so.

strager wrote:

That vote on me was pretty wild. Can you explain your exact reasoning?

Well for one I don't think it was that wild, I already said you and SFG were high on my list, and I recently started to have doubts about SFG's guilt.
I don't really have the time/energy right now to go through and make an extended post analysis, I have an assignment I have to finish in 4 hours..
Though I've done some thinking, and right now I actually think we should get rid of either Pas or kuwarudo. Yes, they can be prodded/replaced, but if they only respond when prodded/once every 24 hours, it could be a while before both of them are replaced, and it seems like every game we are left with people who we have no clue what to think about at the end. Sure we replaced Olinad eventually in M2, but it was really too little too late, we really had no idea what to think of Wojjan until the game was over. I don't know about you guys, but I don't want to get stuck in that situation again.

Therefore
unvote
vote Pasonia

EDIT: also, a vote count would be nice

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

rust is obviously a noob, he may be mafia or may not be mafia, but he's acting a bit like strager did in M2, minus the roleclaim

Finally someone realizes this truth. This is the first game of Mafia I've ever played. Due to this I'm still not playing very well. I'm still trying to get the hang of this. And yes, I know I should've joined a newbie mafia game first.

I have nothing I feel like commenting on at this point in time.
Just posting so people know I'm actually reading.

Oh and instead of killing off people who don't talk straight away (which I think is a tactic that the mafia would consider using) you should encourage them to speak first, give them a day and if they still refuse to speak actively, kill them off. Lynching people who act like this first day might be a mistake because they could just be gathering information to use the next day (or they could be an aux role trying to hide.)

adam2046 wrote:

I have nothing I feel like commenting on at this point in time.
Just posting so people know I'm actually reading.

Oh and instead of killing off people who don't talk straight away (which I think is a tactic that the mafia would consider using) you should encourage them to speak first, give them a day and if they still refuse to speak actively, kill them off. Lynching people who act like this first day might be a mistake because they could just be gathering information to use the next day (or they could be an aux role trying to hide.)

Thing is, they are just as likely to be a mafia trying to hide. If they were gathering information for the next day, wouldn't they be asking questions and stimulating discussions as opposed to hiding in a corner the whole time?
Also I don't really see why mafia would want to get rid of quiet people, I would think they would want to have people no one knows anything about in the final days to cause confusion. (it worked the last 3 games...)
They've been prodded twice and we have told them several times that we need them to talk more, so I think they've been given more than a fair chance.

I'll have to go with adam on this issue. It seems 0_o is trying to kill anyone here on purpose, as if he's not really part of the Town. At least that's what I see of him.

0_o wrote:

Also I don't really see why mafia would want to get rid of quiet people, I would think they would want to have people no one knows anything about in the final days to cause confusion. (it worked the last 3 games...)

Because it's easy to do, just like you're doing.

strager wrote:

I'll have to go with adam on this issue. It seems 0_o is trying to kill anyone here on purpose, as if he's not really part of the Town. At least that's what I see of him.

"kill anyone here on purpose"? What? Firstly if I was really desperate to get rid of anyone I probably wouldn't have switched off of you after I got you on L-1 (inadvertently mind you, I didn't think rust would swoop in right after me).
My reasons for voting Pasonia come from the outcome of every mafia game so far. We are left with one or two people we have no clue what to think of, making us unable to make a well-informed decision on who to lynch at LyLo. I'm thinking for the endgame here - the more information we have against everyone in the endgame, the better our chances of winning.

adam2046 wrote:

0_o wrote:

Also I don't really see why mafia would want to get rid of quiet people, I would think they would want to have people no one knows anything about in the final days to cause confusion. (it worked the last 3 games...)

Because it's easy to do, just like you're doing.

Well actually, the easy thing for mafia to do would be to keep their trap shut and let the town lynch anyone who isn't them. I, on the other hand, do care about who is lynched, and think we should get rid of the dead weight that's gonna kill us at the end.

EDIT: Also, if it was Pas alone who wasn't talking, I probably would let it slide for a day. But now there are 2 inactive players, and if we don't get rid of one today, there's a good shot we are gonna be at Day 3, 5 people, with someone we don't know anything about (basically the same situation we've been in every other game). We have a much better shot Day 3 if we have sufficient information about everyone there.

Vote Count
strager (3) - LadySuburu, adam, rust45 - L2
rust45 (2) - Pasonia, Wojjan
Pasonia (2) - SFG, 0_o
0_o (1) - strager
SFG (1) - kuwarudo

Deadline in approximately 10 hours

0_o wrote:

strager wrote:

I'll have to go with adam on this issue. It seems 0_o is trying to kill anyone here on purpose, as if he's not really part of the Town. At least that's what I see of him.

"kill anyone here on purpose"? What? Firstly if I was really desperate to get rid of anyone I probably wouldn't have switched off of you after I got you on L-1 (inadvertently mind you, I didn't think rust would swoop in right after me).

I had forgotten roles are not revealed. Down the road there'd probably be at least one Mafia on each lynch against anyone here, though, so hopping off the bandwagon against would be to avoid this. Of course, this is a WIFOM situation.

I hadn't thought through what I said, so I'll retract my statement, if I can.

Still, I'm not convinced we vote against Pasonia or any non-talker. What happened to nardi M2?

nardi was lynched in M2 partially because of the "strager's bandwagon theory" iirc

I retain my vote on rust45.

I'm totally lost at this game because of WIFOM which I don't know shit about.

Vote Count

strager (3) - LadySuburu, adam, rust45
rust45 (2) - Pasonia, Wojjan
Pasonia(2) - SFG, 0_o
SFG (1) - kuwarudo
0_o (1) - strager

-- strager is on L-2!
BagelBob replaces kuwarudo, effective immediately.

Deadline is in 5 hours

Forget all the pretty colours, I can't be bothered >.>

So did I just get replaced already??

Yes. By majority :3

Ok, Bagelbob is replacing kuwarudo (and I can't imagine him being too quiet ) so since Pas is the only inactive player right now, so I'll stick to my word and give him a day to join in the conversation (though he sticks around and keeps up the 10 word posts, he's facing my wrath tomorrow)

unvote
revote strager

I'll go ahead and confirm that I'm replacing Kuu here in the thread.

I've read through the game once and to be Frank, you all look guilty.
It's a good thing I'm not Frank.

My Initial suspicions are against SFG and strager, but if I bring in past games, I'd expect Suburu to be way more suspicious of SFG.

So, Lurking is bad
This post has good reasons for voting almost anyone and
asking other people to name people as scum is a scum-tactic since it causes distrust and it's very unlikely at this stage that anyone gets it right.

Also

LadySuburu wrote:

There are rare cases that a townie hammers without waiting for some discussion, but those are rare.

Hehe... that explains why you're reluctant to vote SFG

So, in conclusion, you've all done things that make you look like scum, so I don't know what to do.
I'm going to re-read the game and see if I catch anything this time.

@strager
You seem to be almost lynched. You were breadcrumbing cop earlier, if you want to claim, I'd suggest doing it now.

BagelBob wrote:

I've read through the game once and to be Frank, you all look guilty.

I lol'd

Alright, I re-read through and I didn't see much else, except something about 0_o rubbed me the wrong way. It's probably just my gut and my tiredness, and I don't have anything to back it up. It's too late to make a difference anyway.

deadline wrote:

vote: strager

strager, you're going to get lynched, even claiming vanilla would help since roles aren't revealed upon death

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

*sob*

Next morning, the group awoke to find SFG missing. They all seem to remember a huge thunderstorm last night, complete with lightning flashes and thunderous booms... or was it a thunderstorm? The ground was dry as dust...

---

SFG has been killed and is now eliminated from this game.
Day 2 begins immediately, and ends Thursday 16th June, 5pm GMT+8

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

woah, that was quick =/

EDIT: also BagelBob if you still find me suspicious I'll respond to any comments you have against me
EDIT2: mod: remember to update days/nights in the topic title? :3

Mod: Due to numerous complaints I have edited the title of this thread. Please update the log on the first page, too!

I feel less suspicious of LS now as I would think he would keep her around as an easily manipulated pawn if he were mafia (commence WIFOM here)

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

BagelBob, if you're the doctor, who did you protect?

hmm interesting idea

I'm not the cop though

Echo: can I get prods for LadySuburu, Pasonia, and Wojjan
24h has not yet passed ~Echo

rust, I protected LadySuburu

I'm here.

Bagel: Any particular reason you chose me to protect?

Rereading a bit.

Yeah, you're my buddy. And everyone looks like Scum.

Starting re-read 3 now.

Mmk, did a quick check on something I was thinking about.

I don't know if it's just me, but it feels like adam's been a lot less active this game. Looking through his posts, I see some seriousness, but little content overall. His posts are also not that frequent.

I'm not one who has played with him before, does anyone else feel like this is the case?

adam: Do you have a particular reason that you're not really posting as much? Lack of interest?

I'll do a full reread soon.

And when I said re-read 3, I meant examine SFG's posts. Since she was the NK, it's important to figure out WHY she was NKed. Thus, her posts from the previous day need to be examined.

While reading, keep in mind 2 things
1. SFG was not voting to lynch strager
2. SFG was probably the 2nd most suspicious person after strager

I can come up with 3 reasons that SFG would be NKed.
1. SFG was right on the money. Pasonia or rust (her two main suspicions) are scum. Also including the possibility of adam, but early game and not so much later
2. The Scum wanted to find out who each other are. One posted to Kill: SFG to test if the other was SFG or Suburu (WIFOM argument as pointed out by adam prior)
3. Strager was a scum. Echo didn't tell the other that he was alone and he posted Kill: SFG expecting his "buddy" to either disagree or agree, but being surprised by the day.

All 3 of these are made because there was a short night.

Anyone, Questions, Comments, Alternatives?

I told you that I take a different approach to each game Subi.
This game is quite different to a normal mafia game so I decided to play it quite differently, I will probably make more posts per day as the game goes on.

OK, re-read 3 has produced some things I want to look at.

This post bothers me. 0_o is speculating on the game set-up instead of scum-hunting, a supposed scum-tell, but it's really too early for that to mean much. However, he's making a case that Mafia are going to look like Townies. This is scummy because it gets people thinking that townies are really scum.

[quote="Pasonia":702ff]EDIT @ adam: I'm sorry I haven't voted in weeks. >.>Sorry for inactivity? Then later he says that he had planned to lurk this game. Those two don't seem to go together.

[quote="0_o":702ff]woah im on L-2 guys... watch where you're voting..

hey strager I haven't heard any claims against being mafia from you either.. :O

I'm not mafia

EDIT: also seems kinda fishy to me to put a "random" vote against someone who already has 2...

vote WojjanSelf-preservation is Scummy. Also, here 0_o says that putting someone at L-2 is "kinda fishy"
Which he himself did twice.

Pictures serve to distract people and generally hurt scum-hunting.

rust seems to have no problems putting someone at L-1.

[quote="Wojjan":702ff]I lost count, am I on L-1 yet?
I take it this game won't last long for me this way Again, self-preservation is scummy.

More self-preservation

Adam in this post is asking other people to point fingers at each other. This isn't laziness, this is scummy.

Again, self-preservation

This post is very interesting. At the time, stragers vote was the one he received when he switched with SFG. I.E. he was NOT voting who he thought was scum. I think this gives credit to the "strager was a goon" theory.

LS wrote:

SFG: 4, 4, 3
rust45: 4, 3, 3, 3
strager: 3, 3, 3
0_o: 3, 3
LS: 3
Wojjan: 3
adam: -
Pasonia: -

adam has not done ANY scum-hunting and none of his posts has any quality.

Thoughts? Comments? Proverbial Expressions?

OK I'll start with the response to the attacks on me, then look at everyone else in the next post (because I don't like giant posts )

BagelBob wrote:

This post bothers me. 0_o is speculating on the game set-up instead of scum-hunting, a supposed scum-tell, but it's really too early for that to mean much. However, he's making a case that Mafia are going to look like Townies. This is scummy because it gets people thinking that townies are really scum.

I don't see what's wrong with that post really. Truth is, we are going to have to dig deeper to find mafia this game, so we are gonna have to look a little harder than previous games if we want to win.

Self-preservation is Scummy. Also, here 0_o says that putting someone at L-2 is "kinda fishy"
Which he himself did twice.

I didn't say putting someone on L-2 is scummy, I said putting someone on L-2 by a supposed "random vote" is a little suspicious.

Pictures serve to distract people and generally hurt scum-hunting.

Oh come on I doubt posting a picture is going to hinder anyone's scum-finding process.

more stuff about self-preservation

Of course I was gonna try to keep myself from getting lynched, I am the only one who I am sure isn't mafia, and personally I think I can be useful for the town. I don't really see how not wanting to get lynched at RVS is scum tell

BagelBob wrote:

Adam in this post is asking other people to point fingers at each other. This isn't laziness, this is scummy.

You misinterpret what I mean, what I was saying was that we should stop the silly votes and start getting serious about the game.
You seem to misinterpret on purpose too.

BagelBob wrote:

[quote="Pasonia":c0cb3]EDIT @ adam: I'm sorry I haven't voted in weeks. >.>

Sorry for inactivity? Then later he says that he had planned to lurk this game. Those two don't seem to go together.I think by not voting in weeks means that he hasn't placed a vote in a WW/mafia game for weeks (hence why he forgot to bold his vote)

rust seems to have no problems putting someone at L-1.

Well he did already explain that his behavior in the first half of that day was to "make things more interesting", and he is a newbie, but I'm not sure what to think myself.

[quote="Wojjan":c0cb3]I lost count, am I on L-1 yet?
I take it this game won't last long for me this way

Again, self-preservation is scummy.Again, at RVS I don't see anything wrong with wanting to stick around. Though I don't really see this as self-preservation, but what do I know

Adam in this post is asking other people to point fingers at each other. This isn't laziness, this is scummy.

I see this as an attempt to get people voting for who they actually think is mafia, as opposed to all the joke votes, tying votes, etc. that we've been doing up till then. I was actually gonna post that myself, before I saw that adam already did.

This post is very interesting. At the time, stragers vote was the one he received when he switched with SFG. I.E. he was NOT voting who he thought was scum. I think this gives credit to the "strager was a goon" theory.

Possibly, but keep in mind that strager was the one who requested to switch votes, and that was still around the time where most of the votes were jokes. I'm still suspecting strager being mafia, I just don't know if this is good evidence for it or not.

adam has not done ANY scum-hunting and none of his posts has any quality.

I'll let adam speak for himself on this one

As predicted, I was away for a while, due to massive amounts of visiting town halls.

BageBob claimed doctor. Yay, now we know. Thanks for making this harder for all of us, we're bound to lose you on N2. Unless of course you're a scum. I do think your theory is credible, but if I were scum, I would have seen this happen too, and theree's no solid proof yet you're the doctor, since you can freely say who you protected as long as that person is still alive.

• BagelBob: +0.5

at least you explained...

't seems I missed that post on adam, and I checked it again. There's no possible way you can see this how Bagel did without looking for reasons to suspect him.

• Bagelbob: +1

Bagel, there is nothing wrong with self-preservation, especially in the RVS. Or what for most seemed as the RVS. You're, again, looking for ways to get suspicion on others. Scummy in my yes

• BagelBob: +0.5

SFG: 4, 4, 3
rust45: 4, 3, 3, 3
strager: 3, 3, 3
0_o: 3, 3
LS: 3
Wojjan: 3
adam: -
Pasonia: -

Could this list be updated anytime soon, maybe at the end of D2? I would like to deduct some more theories from bandwagoning and votes, but I'm not really in place to make a list, since I tend to disappear some times in this period. Sorry for that too.

Pasonia, why are you even in? You're rarely here at all, and vote without reason. Maybe he sees no interesting things in the day phase since his time to shine is at night? Or is he just trying to lay low? I wou:ldn't have any clue.

• Pasonia: +0.5

Whoops, one more foot note

mod:I might be on the road for a time tomorrow. Could you maybe consider only prodding me in 48 hours when asked? thanks in advance.

Ok, since you don't like long posts, I'll break it up and do a quad-post, just for you.

First thing first:
Can I please get a prod for Pasonia?

0_o wrote:

OK I'll start with the response to the attacks on me, then look at everyone else in the next post (because I don't like giant posts )

BagelBob wrote:

This post bothers me. 0_o is speculating on the game set-up instead of scum-hunting, a supposed scum-tell, but it's really too early for that to mean much. However, he's making a case that Mafia are going to look like Townies. This is scummy because it gets people thinking that townies are really scum.

I don't see what's wrong with that post really. Truth is, we are going to have to dig deeper to find mafia this game, so we are gonna have to look a little harder than previous games if we want to win.

I believe it's unintentional, but this is a straw-man. The truth of the argument is not in question. The fact is that the argument is in support of the scum, rather than the town.

0.o wrote:

Self-preservation is Scummy. Also, here 0_o says that putting someone at L-2 is "kinda fishy"
Which he himself did twice.

I didn't say putting someone on L-2 is scummy, I said putting someone on L-2 by a supposed "random vote" is a little suspicious.

I did indeed leave those words out, but again, two of your three times putting someone at L-2 were in the random vote stage.

O.o wrote:

Pictures serve to distract people and generally hurt scum-hunting.

Oh come on I doubt posting a picture is going to hinder anyone's scum-finding process.

In general. In this case the picture was quickly forgotten. Also, there wasn't any scum-hunting going on at the time.This was supposed to be a general warning that it is a bad idea.

O.o wrote:

more stuff about self-preservation

Of course I was gonna try to keep myself from getting lynched, I am the only one who I am sure isn't mafia, and personally I think I can be useful for the town. I don't really see how not wanting to get lynched at RVS is scum tell

That's exactly the point. In RVS you shouldn't HAVE to be concerned about not getting lynched since all the votes are random. If a lynch happens in the RVS, then multiple people are doing something wrong. It is not necessary to try and live through the RVS. RVS should be a time when you look for initial reasons to start pushing someone.

adam2046 wrote:

BagelBob wrote:

Adam in this post is asking other people to point fingers at each other. This isn't laziness, this is scummy.

You misinterpret what I mean, what I was saying was that we should stop the silly votes and start getting serious about the game.
You seem to misinterpret on purpose too.

I'm sorry if I misinterpret what you MEAN, but I can only go off of what you SAY. Next time, if you MEAN "we should stop the silly votes and start getting serious about the game" then maybe you should SAY "we should stop the silly votes and start getting serious about the game" instead of saying "anyone wanna point real fingers now?".

Turns out that I'm not going to quote this post. Instead, I'm just going to put forth this simple question to 0_o:

Why are you defending everyone else?
It's understandable to defend someone you KNOW is on your own team, but it is the duty of the town to LOOK FOR SCUM. How about in the future you start ATTACKING people instead of DEFENDING them? You need to be SCUM-HUNTING instead of doing this.

Wojjan wrote:

As predicted, I was away for a while, due to massive amounts of visiting town halls.

BageBob claimed doctor. Yay, now we know. Thanks for making this harder for all of us, we're bound to lose you on N2. Unless of course you're a scum. I do think your theory is credible, but if I were scum, I would have seen this happen too, and theree's no solid proof yet you're the doctor, since you can freely say who you protected as long as that person is still alive.

• BagelBob: +0.5

at least you explained...

You're right in a sense. However, you admit that this would be something you could see both sides doing. Why does that make it scummy?

Wojjan wrote:

't seems I missed that post on adam, and I checked it again. There's no possible way you can see this how Bagel did without looking for reasons to suspect him.

• Bagelbob: +1

I can't talk about this, since I have no idea what you're saying. Could you clarify, please?

Wojjan wrote:

Bagel, there is nothing wrong with self-preservation, especially in the RVS. Or what for most seemed as the RVS. You're, again, looking for ways to get suspicion on others. Scummy in my yes

• BagelBob: +0.5

I'm sorry, looking for scummy things that people do is scummy? Sorry, but looking for scummy things is called scum-hunting. Try it some time?

Wojjan wrote:

SFG: 4, 4, 3
rust45: 4, 3, 3, 3
strager: 3, 3, 3
0_o: 3, 3
LS: 3
Wojjan: 3
adam: -
Pasonia: -

Could this list be updated anytime soon, maybe at the end of D2? I would like to deduct some more theories from bandwagoning and votes, but I'm not really in place to make a list, since I tend to disappear some times in this period. Sorry for that too.

Pasonia, why are you even in? You're rarely here at all, and vote without reason. Maybe he sees no interesting things in the day phase since his time to shine is at night? Or is he just trying to lay low? I wou:ldn't have any clue.

• Pasonia: +0.5

I'd like to point out that both Scum and Town lurk. That being said, I still don't like it. More on this later.


Also, I'm noting that Wojjan said he'll be gone for 48 hours and will not attempt to prod him until Saturday July 11 4PM CDT, regardless of whether Echo notes it or not.

Quint-Post! Turns out I forgot; I wanted to say that that second post was not where I wanted the discussion. It's a good thing to discuss, but I'd really like to hear what you all think about this:

BagelBob wrote:

And when I said re-read 3, I meant examine SFG's posts. Since she was the NK, it's important to figure out WHY she was NKed. Thus, her posts from the previous day need to be examined.

While reading, keep in mind 2 things
1. SFG was not voting to lynch strager
2. SFG was probably the 2nd most suspicious person after strager

I can come up with 3 reasons that SFG would be NKed.
1. SFG was right on the money. Pasonia or rust (her two main suspicions) are scum. Also including the possibility of adam, but early game and not so much later
2. The Scum wanted to find out who each other are. One posted to Kill: SFG to test if the other was SFG or Suburu (WIFOM argument as pointed out by adam prior)
3. Strager was a scum. Echo didn't tell the other that he was alone and he posted Kill: SFG expecting his "buddy" to either disagree or agree, but being surprised by the day.

All 3 of these are made because there was a short night.

Anyone, Questions, Comments, Alternatives?

BagelBob wrote:

Turns out that I'm not going to quote this post. Instead, I'm just going to put forth this simple question to 0_o:

Why are you defending everyone else?
It's understandable to defend someone you KNOW is on your own team, but it is the duty of the town to LOOK FOR SCUM. How about in the future you start ATTACKING people instead of DEFENDING them? You need to be SCUM-HUNTING instead of doing this.

At the end of your post you said

BagelBob wrote:

Thoughts? Comments? Proverbial Expressions?

You wanted thoughts and comments, and I gave them to you. I'm not trying to defend anyone in particular, I was just stating my opinions on the validity of your attacks. Yes we want to find the mafia, but if someone argues someone is mafia because of ____, and I don't agree with the reasoning, I'll point it out. Unless you feel everyone should be out for themselves and only defend accusations against themselves?

0_o wrote:

BagelBob wrote:

Turns out that I'm not going to quote this post. Instead, I'm just going to put forth this simple question to 0_o:

Why are you defending everyone else?
It's understandable to defend someone you KNOW is on your own team, but it is the duty of the town to LOOK FOR SCUM. How about in the future you start ATTACKING people instead of DEFENDING them? You need to be SCUM-HUNTING instead of doing this.

At the end of your post you said

BagelBob wrote:

Thoughts? Comments? Proverbial Expressions?

You wanted thoughts and comments, and I gave them to you. I'm not trying to defend anyone in particular, I was just stating my opinions on the validity of your attacks. Yes we want to find the mafia, but if someone argues someone is mafia because of ____, and I don't agree with the reasoning, I'll point it out. Unless you feel everyone should be out for themselves and only defend accusations against themselves?

You're right, posting that is ambiguous. Again, I think you should only defend someone if you KNOW they are on your team. Any other defenses should come from the person who is being attacked. The thing is, you can't specifically know if what you think they were doing is right. You can give it your best guess, but that's all it is.

Now then, does anyone have any thoughts on someone who they think is scum? Or am I the only one who is going to be scum-hunting?

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That seemed like a completely random vote. You didn't even explain yourself.

mod: update the first post please. Also, is Pasonia gonna be replaced or no?

Pasonia hasn't replied to my prod yet. Which part of the first post? I updated it last time already.

I have already explained that Iwould be voting Pasonia today.
Please pay more attention Rusty.

Edit: Echo you still haven't changed the list put Bobby on and I would like a list of the dead.

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lol, I suck at being a mod >> (first post updated)

Pasonia will not be replaced or prodded any further. 好きにしなさい

well ok then

vote Pasonia

for reasons stated yesterday
Also, I don't think any townie would vote for BagelBob given the logic of his claim...

Pasonia wrote:

BagelBob wrote:

[quote="Pasonia":44520]EDIT @ adam: I'm sorry I haven't voted in weeks. >.>

Sorry for inactivity? Then later he says that he had planned to lurk this game. Those two don't seem to go together.

Sorry, I was wrong. I didn't know that you had forgotten to bold you vote because of the edit. However, you still said that you planned to lurk this game.

Pasonia wrote:

Your logic is broken the moment you quote THIS post, and now I regard you as scum because you're able to go into so much detail on the mafia thing, while saying little about the person you protected or about yourself.

Could you quote "the mafia thing" so I know exactly what you're talking about?
And if you have any questions or require further explanations, feel free to ask.

viewtopic.php?p=157493#p157493

I am one who goes with my first instinct after swiftly running through posts, so unless you can produce an ultra-convincing case to me why you're not scum, consider this a LOCKED vote BagelBob.

That means, all I will do is restate that my vote is on you until the end of the day cycle, if required to.

Also, for you guys out there; voting for me is bad. You will regret it if you do. You will regret not hitting a scum by hitting someone who's merely inactive.

Posting a bit more because I now have some time to do so.

hmm
unvote, future vote pending Pas/BagelBob discussion. Nice to see you posting now ^_^

EDIT: ok, I'm going to a cottage with some friends for the weekend, so I probably won't be back here for another 36 hours or so. I'll read everything once I get back. Don't do anything stupid while I'm gone ^_^

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Here, Bagel. Watching the discussion and deciding what I think about it.

On SFG: Any of those is possible, and other things could have happened as well. Personally, I don't think we'll get much out of looking too deep into that. *shrug*

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

There are many possible reasons SFG could have been killed, but it's all WIFOM.

As for the current situation, I think Pasonia looks a bit scummy.

As for the approach I reccomend, I think we examine what happened D1, and analyze it.

*goes back to WoW*

LadySuburu wrote:

There are many possible reasons SFG could have been killed, but it's all WIFOM.

As for the current situation, I think Pasonia looks a bit scummy.

As for the approach I reccomend, I think we examine what happened D1, and analyze it.

*goes back to WoW*

It doesn't matter to me if it's WIFOM, I'd still be pleased if you could say one, because

When it comes down to it, Everything is WIFOM.

Again, we need REASONS for people looking scummy, not gut end-stinks.

And I will await your re-examination of D1 and analysis anxiously.

I clearly remember the last time BagelBob was "analytical" it ended in his ignoble death at the hands of the WW2 townies.

Therefore, risking a WIFOM I am pretty sure BB is also a scum this game, and is in fact trying very hard to look like a townie while discrediting the rest as scum.

I hope you guys do remember that while it's good to prove a point, trying too hard (hint: trying like BagelBob is doing) can be detrimental especially if you'd been lying (i.e. you are scum). Just because I'm inactive don't mean shit.

Hey everyone, back after the roughest period up to now.
I see Bagel has replied to my suspicion, and what I said about your adam thing apparently needed clarification. Took long enough, but I'm here.

What I meant to say was that you can't possibly think that is what adam meant, so you were looking for reasons to get him lynched off. This is the same thing you did with 0_o for calling trying to get the stupid voters of the RVS to, you know, see that he's gonna get lynched on no fact at all. I personally would have foound it more weird (not scummy, but weird) if he DIDN'T protect himself.

Trying to find scum, not really.
Trying to grasp on a very tiny straw, yes.

LadySuburu wrote:

*goes back to WoW*

it's Kuu, I know it.

Well, I just did a reread and got absolutely nothing out of it.

Pasonia wrote:

I clearly remember the last time BagelBob was "analytical" it ended in his ignoble death at the hands of the WW2 townies.

It seems you missed the last two games where I was "analytical" and got killed night 1.
On a side note, HOLY CRAP I'M ALIVE DAY 2!

Furthermore, WW2 is an ONGOING game, and while it is acceptable THERE to talk about it out of thread, I'd appreciate if you didn't bring it into other games. There is NO PROOF that I was ever a wolf in that game. The only thing I was lynched by was Suburu claiming that I was a wolf. There was absolutely nothing raised against my argument, and I'm reasonably pissed off that no one even tried to look at my argument, they just assumed Suburu was telling the truth. There was no scum-hunting involved and, because of that, you lynched the Guardian Angel. Good job.

Pasonia wrote:

Therefore, risking a WIFOM I am pretty sure BB is also a scum this game, and is in fact trying very hard to look like a townie while discrediting the rest as scum.

You think I'm scum because I'm trying to look like a townie? It appears that you've missed this post. Also, I haven't been "trying to look like a townie", I've been "trying to look for scum".

Pasonia wrote:

I hope you guys do remember that while it's good to prove a point, trying too hard (hint: trying like BagelBob is doing) can be detrimental especially if you'd been lying (i.e. you are scum). Just because I'm inactive don't mean shit.

What point is it that you think I'm trying too hard to prove? I don't recall having made any assertions other than what I think is scummy. If you want to say that my reasons aren't scummy, go ahead, but unless you provide proof to the contrary, I won't change my opinions. As for "just" being inactive, I believe I've stated that before. However, you haven't been "just" inactive. It's obvious that you've been reading the thread, but up until now, you haven't posted unless prodded. You're avoiding posting on purpose, not due to circumstances beyond your control.

Wojjan wrote:

What I meant to say was that you can't possibly think that is what adam meant, so you were looking for reasons to get him lynched off.

Ah, I see, you were referring to

BagelBob wrote:

Adam in this post is asking other people to point fingers at each other. This isn't laziness, this is scummy.

I may have phrased that the wrong way.
I think this is scummy because adam is asking other people to scum-hunt, without he himself doing anything.

Wojjan wrote:

This is the same thing you did with 0_o for calling trying to get the stupid voters of the RVS to, you know, see that he's gonna get lynched on no fact at all. I personally would have foound it more weird (not scummy, but weird) if he DIDN'T protect himself.

If you're saying I did something in the RVS that was suspicious, then you might want to read through the game again, or say it was Kuu.
There's two separate things I said about 0_o.
The first is that he was defending himself in the RVS. This is scummy, because no one should get lynched in the RVS. If someone DOES get lynched in the RVS, the person who hammered is like 99.5% scum and should be lynched. A 1 for 1 trade in Mafia is a very good thing. But even for that to happen, 3 townies have to be voting the same person in RVS, and no townie should be foolish enough to keep their vote on someone like that. I feel it was scummy because he reacted strongly when I felt there was no danger.
The second thing is that he specifically stated that putting someone at L-2 in RVS was scummy, while he did such himself twice.
Feel free to disagree, you're entitled to your opinions, but saying I'm scummy for thinking someone else did something scummy just doesn't make any sense.

LadySuburu wrote:

Well, I just did a reread and got absolutely nothing out of it.

Well, bummer, but lets look at what you think could be the reasons for SFG's night kill now.

Oh, and

Prod for Rust and adam plox

BagelBob wrote:

Well, bummer, but lets look at what you think could be the reasons for SFG's night kill now.

No one's saying anything because we know that whatever anyone says, you're just going use whatever it is to attack them.

Sheesh, no matter how many times I reread I just can't decide on someone that looks the most like scum.

OK I'm back.
It sounds to me like Pasonia seems to be sure of the fact the BagelBob is lying, and to me the only way of knowing that for sure is if Pas was the doctor himself. Thing is I don't know how BagelBob would be able to get away with a doctor claim if he was mafia. BB is pretty smart though, so idk..
I'm inclined to think BagelBob is the doctor, but given Pasonia's behavior I'm not sure enough to rule out the fact that Pasonia might be the doctor instead. So I'm gonna wait to see who the NK is tonight before placing votes on one of them.
I'll be back and post more later probably.

I don't think we should lynch BagelBob today (although I feel suspicious of him since he doesn't want the cop scanning him at all) and I feel suspicious of Pasonia's rather weird behaviour (threatening that we "will regret it"?)

I'm going to have to vote for Pasonia for now.

adam2046 wrote:

No one's saying anything because we know that whatever anyone says, you're just going use whatever it is to attack them.

Well put. Bagel is obviously attacking everyone to get suspicion on anyone but him. I'd give him another boost on the suspicion list, but I think I've seen enough.

At this point, I've tried so many times to get the discussion going and it hasn't worked.

So I'm just going to

Vote Pasonia

For that Ad Hominem
and for being the highest on SFG's suspicion list since she was the NK


Also, I'm sick and I probably won't be able to post again soon, but I'll try to get one tomorrow

Vote Count
Pasonia (2) - adam2046, BagelBob - L2
BagelBob (1) - Pasonia

Not Voting: 0_o, Wojjan, rust45, LadySuburu

Vote: Pasonia (L-1 now.)

Looking at the BB vs Pasonia, There are things Pasonia said (IE: "Voting for me is bad"), and his actions this game, versus how Bagel's been acting this game, leads me to believe BB is likely town and Pasonia is scum.

I'm resisting the urge to hammer Pas, but I'm REALLY suspicious of his blunt approach and shady behaviour.
But Bagel, if we aren't discussing, we don't have things to say. Don't push it or you may as well indeed end up looking like scum trying to get us all to attack people. I guess this is how you usually roll, but have you ever considered why you always die at the hands of the villagers in Mafia and Werewolf?

Vote Count

Pasonia (3) - adam, BagelBob, Suburu
BagelBob (1) - Pasonia

Not Voting: 0_o, Wojjan, rust45

-- Pasonia is at L-1!

Here's your long awaited (official) vote count.

Well, you can put me at L-1 now and I won't resist. But if you guys lose coz you lose that chance of hitting me today, you know your scum isn't me. And if I die, you know who to aim.

Mark my words - Bagel doesn't even TRY to play analytical UNLESS he is scum (whatever happened to WW2, you guys?!). That's not even WIFOM anymore.

Take it this way - why would I specifically aim BagelBob if I had nothing to gain from it? If I am scum, of course putting him on the line is a good way out, but I am a vanilla and there is no fucking way I'd not try to "blend in". I'm just terribly disappointed that you guys want to lynch me because you believe BagelBob that much more, whilst not trusting that my vote will hit the right people.

You will REALLY regret it if you hit me. I can't reiterate this often enough. I will repeat - you would rather hit an inactive vanilla than smack a BagelBob possible-scum? Would you?

Please don't make blase choices based on my activity level, thanks.

From rereading Bagel's posts and reading Pasonia post I can safely say.

Vote: BagelBob

So Pasonia, you're saying that it's impossible for you to be scum?

Again, Pasonia, your oft repeating that we will regret it is just making you look worse every time. You still didn't give any other real arguments than "Look at Bagel, don't he look like scum!" Which, neediless to say, might be the case. But since the Mafia don't know one another, the one Mafia is also looking for the other. So your reasoning doesn't necessarily mean you are townie

Pasonia wrote:

Well, you can put me at L-1 now and I won't resist.

..followed by a paragraph of resisting

I'm a little baffled by Pas's initial reasoning for voting BagelBob (here)
It seems like he considered BB's entire case nulled when he said this

BagelBob wrote:

[quote="Pasonia":264cc]EDIT @ adam: I'm sorry I haven't voted in weeks. >.>

Sorry for inactivity? Then later he says that he had planned to lurk this game. Those two don't seem to go together.But it seems fairly obvious to me that this attack was simply a misunderstanding of Pas's post (it should have been read "I'm sorry, I haven't voted in weeks" instead of an apology for not voting)
I'm also find it strange how much he is stressing how it will be the end of the world if we lynch him, yet he claims to only be a vanilla.. I would think someone saying that would be an aux role if they were telling the truth.
I won't vote yet because I would prefer we use the rest of the day to our advantage, but I would really like to know what's going on in Pas's head.

adam2046 wrote:

So Pasonia, you're saying that it's impossible for you to be scum?

Pur-ree-sai-sur-lee! Why can't you get this?

@ 0_o - Well, we only have 7 left. If we didn't hit any scum, that means come nightfall if you don't change your vote, we're either down one townie and one scum, or the likelier scenario would be down two townies (assuming the lynching hits me).

An aux has to keep himself alive so he would try to be active. An inactive vanilla has near zero to fight for.

Wojjan, I like discussion in mafia games because that's how I look for scum. I feel that there hasn't been enough discussion, but I assume what you say is true, since no one discussed, they didn't have anything to say about it, no opinions. That's why I decided to go ahead and vote for Pasonia.

Wojjan wrote:

but have you ever considered why you always die at the hands of the villagers in Mafia and Werewolf?

Well, I died at the hand of the villagers and wolves in WW2 because Suburu is a really good liar.
If you're referring to the mafia games, then it was a NK that got me, and that's a mafia kill.



Pasonia, maybe you've missed this, but in this game roles aren't revealed on death.

Pasonia wrote:

Mark my words - Bagel doesn't even TRY to play analytical UNLESS he is scum (whatever happened to WW2, you guys?!).

Good to know that you don't read my posts. Again.

Pasonia wrote:

Take it this way - why would I specifically aim BagelBob if I had nothing to gain from it?

This is just my opinion, I think that a member of the town would look at everyone and pick out the most scummy person to lynch, while a goon would pick one person and tunnel on them, to make them look more scummy. Again, this is only my opinion.

Pasonia wrote:

I'm just terribly disappointed that you guys want to lynch me because you believe BagelBob that much more, whilst not trusting that my vote will hit the right people.

This is an appeal to emotion. That's scummy.
I provide reasons with my vote, not expletives. That should be reason enough to doubt someone.



rust, you forgot to provide reasons with your vote. Oh, and I've read through, and the last time you said something about the game was July 3rd, and that was a defense of yourself. Anything to say about that?



0_o, I don't know what you want to do with the rest of the day, but if you bring up something for discussion, I'll weigh in in on it.

Pasonia wrote:

An aux has to keep himself alive so he would try to be active. An inactive vanilla has near zero to fight for.

Active like I was? Or is that different? And every vanilla should fight to find scum. Since that's how they win, when they find the scum. And I believe that everyone should play to win every time, or the game kind of... sucks.

In order of occurrence:

1. You accuse me when the heat turned onto you for a moment (t'was when I voted you)
2. I defended myself back there.
3. YOU TUNNEL ON ME FOR TWO STRAIGHT DAYS.
4. Again, I defended myself.

There we go. You tunneled me on this one.

You said it yourself.

BagelBob wrote:

This is just my opinion, I think that a member of the town would look at everyone and pick out the most scummy person to lynch, while a goon would pick one person and tunnel on them, to make them look more scummy. Again, this is only my opinion.

You belong to the bold. Why would you specifically aim me if you weren't targetted back there? You INSIST that I was the scum just based on the fact that my activity level is low, so...

1. Fuck you.
2. You are scum in my eyes.

Because activity level equated to scumminess is WIFOM. You all can't not know this.

EDIT: Good to know that I don't read your posts BB? Oh come on, yer can get the cop's ass on me and when he does you'll know I am to be trusted by town. I am a law-abiding citizen =D

In any case, I also have one point of contention. Have you considered the fact that LadySuburu pushed the L-1 on me? Barring all that I know, I'd also say LS looks mighty suspicious for pushing that vote in.

Like, real mighty.

0_o - what I did was called a direct contradiction. Believe me, it IS intentional. When I say I won't resist the L-1 I lied, why on mothereffing earth would I actually want to not stay in the game?

Ah, yes, just to make a bold statement...

1. The scum will not kill me, because he'll sign a death warrant if he does it.
2. The cop (if he's alive) won't waste his investigate on me because I am innocent. No questions asked.
3. You guys better think fast and not kill me unless you want a townie voted dead.

Pasonia wrote:

EDIT: Good to know that I don't read your posts BB? Oh come on, yer can get the cop's ass on me and when he does you'll know I am to be trusted by town. I am a law-abiding citizen =D
You clearly didn't read his post very well if you had to make an edit for this.

0_o - what I did was called a direct contradiction. Believe me, it IS intentional. When I say I won't resist the L-1 I lied, why on mothereffing earth would I actually want to not stay in the game?

Ah, yes, just to make a bold statement...

1. The scum will not kill me, because he'll sign a death warrant if he does it.
2. The cop (if he's alive) won't waste his investigate on me because I am innocent. No questions asked.
3. You guys better think fast and not kill me unless you want a townie voted dead.

So...
You lied to us in order to get votes off you by pretending you didn't care if you had votes on you?
That's something that I personally would say if I were scum.

1. The scum will not kill me, because he'll sign a death warrant if he does it.

This doesn't make sense, roles aren't revealed on death so we don't know if you're innocent upon death.

2. The cop (if he's alive) won't waste his investigate on me because I am innocent. No questions asked.

Ok what the fuck are you talking about?

3. You guys better think fast and not kill me unless you want a townie voted dead.

Seriously your entire defense consists of, "GUYS DON'T LYNCH ME BB IS SCUM GUYS!" which isn't very convincing.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

Vote Count

Pasonia (4) - adam, BagelBob, Suburu, 0_o
BagelBob (1) - Pasonia

Not Voting: Wojjan, rust45

------------------------

Everyone had had enough of Pasonia's constant, firm and stubborn insistence that he was a normal townie. After all - why would a townie use such WIFOMy arguments to defend himself?

As night approached, Pasonia walked off towards his apartment, confident that the group would not kill him.

He was surprised when he caught a blunt axe in his face.

And then, like the fury of hell itself, the other members of the town each grabbed whatever blunt object they could find and pummeled Pasonia to his death.

Day 2 - Pasonia flattened with various blunt objects.
Night 2 begins immediately, and ends Saturday 18th July, 5pm GMT+8

Early the next morning, everyone got up and walked towards the town square for their usual morning gathering... and recoiled at the horrific sight standing before them.

Standing (if you could call it that) in the middle of the town with multiple skewers of crystals piercing through his body, propping him up, was BagelBob.

Half the town vomited immediately, while the rest of them found a trolley and wheeled BagelBob along with the crystal down a hill and off a cliff.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

BagelBob has been skewered and is now eliminated from this game.
Day 3 begins immediately, and ends Tuesday 21th July, 5pm GMT+8

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

(why didn't anyone tell me i put "june" instead of "july" >.>)