Now that I can freely speak I'll reply to some previous posts.

Wojjan wrote:

strager, you hopped from one argumant to another. First you say Echo is the Cop, and he saw you were the Doctor, and left you alone, then you went to an ENTIRE new aspect, and said he fussed about you the previous day since he's a Mafia.
That does not make sense.

I guess it doesn't. The first paragraph in my post here doesn't make sense to me even: viewtopic.php?p=146467#p146467

Not sure what I was thinking then. My guess is that was my reasoning for his attacking me.

I've also said Echo was a Cop because he knew I wasn't a Mafia (and showed this by not being on my case at all, in contrast to his intense pressure in Day One). He also was explicit here: viewtopic.php?p=148834#p148834

SFG's lynch vote seems honestly accidental. Her tone there also makes her seem less of a Mafia in my eyes.

Wojjan wrote:

If, of course, strager really is the doctor, and hence protecting Echo, strager will likely die tonight.
Also, you're forgetting that if we have a cop AND doctor, we're dealing with a possible roleblocker, who can stop strager in his protection.

Apparently I was role-blocked last night, as you predicted.

But why was Echo killed and not I?

I'll put my thinking here.

Some clarifications on aux roles:

PM wrote:

23:35 <strager|irc> Does the Cop know they have been role blocked?
23:35 <strager|irc> Does the role block get reversed?
23:35 <LadySuburu> The cop gets a result of "No result."
23:35 <strager|irc> Okay
23:38 <strager|irc> And does the role blocker get a notice their block was successful?
23:38 <LadySuburu> No.

And the possibilities they disprove:

1. Echo was role blocked Night One and the role he sees is the opposite of the actual role of the person he examines. If he investigated me, he would see I were of the Town but I were in reality a Mafia.
2. The role blocker attempted a role block on me on Night One. If they got a "your block was successful" message, they would know I was either a Doctor or a Cop (and most likely the former due to my major slip early game). If they didn't get one they would suspect either I do not have an aux role or I did not use my ability then. Same applies for Night Two.

The first point is debunked by my first question to LS, and the second point by my second question.

Now for some possibilities (which you are free to approve or disprove):

1. Mafia would not kill Echo to increase suspicion on me. If I were a Mafia, Echo wouldn't have claimed I was innocent, unless he wasn't the Cop. However, we know he is, so there's more proof that I am not a Mafia.
2. Echo caught on some scent and, if it were followed, would result in a Mafia lynch on Day Two or an examination Night Two and a lynch Day Three.

(And who is "you" who is "forgetting"?)

I'll post some more later once I've read the thread a bit more.

I think you are wayy overthinking this, Echo was killed because the Cop is much more of a threat to the mafia then the doctor is

Ugh, 3 townies, 2 mafia.. it all comes down to today.

So we have Wojjan, Derekku, SFG, me, and strager (who I think we can all agree is clean)

SFG has seemed the least suspicious to me out of all of them, but what bugs me is that neither Wojjan or Derekku were a part of the original vote against strager, while SFG was. So I honestly have no idea what to think right now..

forgive me if im wrong but i *think* today is LyLo - 5 alive and 2 are mafia. if we lynch a human today + NK the mafia have a majority and win automatically.

THINK EXTRA CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU DO THINGS!

i know im hardly one to speak since my last post kinda ><;;;; geez im sorry adam....but that doesnt mean the rule doesnt apply, just that it applies a lot more!

as strager pointed out, we can assume that since Echo died (T_T nooooo...Echo...!) the mafia have a roleblocker, and since strager is out in the open we can assume that none of his protections will be successful from now on. And now that we have no cop, theres not likely to be much assistance in figuring out who's who except that strager is definitely innocent.

that said the most suspicious person out of the remaining is Derekku (italicized so its not a vote :<) We have a week though so dont be hasty. i will be posting those ginormous compilation posts for *each remaining player except for myself and strager* (someone else can do me but i shouldnt imo since 1. i know im innocent and 2. im biased) However atm my internet only works if im sitting on top of my router so i might not get to it for a couple days + less active than normal. Just thought id give a heads-up on that.


thnx, bai for now~
-SFG-

0_o wrote:

I think you are wayy overthinking this, Echo was killed because the Cop is much more of a threat to the mafia then the doctor is

That is true, and I think I mentioned that.

However, there is still reason to kill me. If a Mafia is lynched today, I protect successfully tonight, there will be four of the Town and one Mafia.

Of course, that doesn't matter because we know there is a Role Blocker out there, so I'm pretty much a Vanilla Townie until the Role Blocker is killed. (If the Mafia needs to sacrifice one of themselves for some reason they will chose the Vanilla Mafia for this reason.)

SFG, I have considered Derekku myself but I have no real reasoning for it. He's not really doing much. >_>

Anyway, time for a breakthrough claim: everything I've said has been truthful, except my certainties on Echo's guilt. (Even then I knew I was wrong. I had fun playing, though. =])

I just had an idea on determining the two Mafia and will look into it and post my findings.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

strager wrote:

Okay, Derekku is a Mafia. Examine page 38 carefully.

whatever it is you're seeing i missed it. that might be cus its kinda really early in the morning and i need sleep though.

please spell out in nice baby words for me?

@strager: I assume you're talking about this post

Derekku Chan wrote:

I would say how suspicious it is that you guys turned around at the drop of a hat to believe that Echo is the cop, but I think I believe him too. :<

I believed that Echo was cop, and he was. He voted for adam just like I had, but he really had no reason to other than possibly a random vote since he wasn't going to be around. The reason I voted for adam was because:

1) he hadn't been talking much
2) he wasn't giving any good reasoning for his votes
3) to make him talk

I don't see how I'm betraying anyone o_o

Derekku Chan wrote:

@strager: I assume you're talking about this post

Derekku Chan wrote:

I would say how suspicious it is that you guys turned around at the drop of a hat to believe that Echo is the cop, but I think I believe him too. :<

There was overwhelming evidence that Echo was a Cop. I doubt you missed all the hints. But that wasn't the post which "proves" it.

Derekku Chan wrote:

2) he wasn't giving any good reasoning for his votes

And the other reasons you list are reason enough to vote for adam?

Derekku Chan wrote:

I don't see how I'm betraying anyone o_o

D=

0_o, we cannot discredit my bandwagon theory just yet. Although it's mostly debunked (I kinda thing SFG is a Townie, and you sorta think that too?) it's not impossible. Of course, you could have agreed with it early on as a Mafia to try and get lynches on Townies, then back out on your claim, but then again you as a Townie would do the same thing, so that's not a reason to be suspicious of you.

I'll investigate more of the past actions later and see if anything springs up about 0_o and SFG.

Some notes. These assume I am a Townie and no one will consider voting for me.

Chance to lynch a Mafia today: 2/4 = 1/2 = 50%

(It's a Mafia win (basically) if a Mafia is not lynched today.)

If I am killed at Night:
Chance to lynch a Mafia tomorrow: 1/3 = 33%

If I am not killed at Night:
Chance to lynch a Mafia tomorrow: 1/2 = 50%

So it's pretty safe to say I'm dead tonight.

Chance to find the other Mafia to lynch today (if we do lynch a Mafia): 1/3 = 33%

So there's no statistical gain in finding who both Mafia are today; only one needs to be found. However, if both can be found today, a day doesn't have to be wasted. Remember, we have my added brain power. =]

Tomorrow we are left with 2 Townies and 1 Mafia, so the situation is very sticky there.

We could have A voting for B and B voting for A. If A and B are Townies, game over, but if one is a Mafia, there's a 50% chance of a Town win.

We could also have A voting for B, B : C, C : A. Instant Mafia win.

This late in the game the Mafia wouldn't point fingers at each other too much because that would be very risky. Mafia don't like risky. They are guaranteed a win (basically) if they kill a Townie today.

I'll post a full vote log tomorrow, and maybe try to analyze it. I'll encourage others to, too.

I'm all for Derekku and SFG being Mafia. I'm trying to find concrete evidence, but I fail for now. Yet I'm keeping all odds open till some proof hits the fan.

Derekku summary. im kinda tired and feel sick atm so im skipping the summaries on short/unimportant posts

"gg role claiming strager
But yeah, since doctor is an important role, I can see why one would claim it to try and protect themself from getting lynched.
But since you can't protect yourself (like guardian angel in WWG), you might end up a target for a night kill.
Poor strager =("


"0_o wrote:
I vote adam because his avatar simply screams IM A KILLER

Not the best reason xd"


"Anyway, strager: Your role claim can go different ways:

1) You are lying about your aux role and are either:
a) Mafia: So it doesn't even matter that you're role claiming since you can't night kill yourself, but you may get lynched during the day.
b) Townie: Very stupid thing to do.

2) You really are the doctor and:
a) We may not lynch you because the doctor is a valuable asset for the town.
b) Your early role claim is very suspicious which may cause us to lynch you.
c) Mafia will lynch you so you can't help the town. (Unless you are mafia)


So, yeah. Role claiming was pretty stupid. If you're truthful that it was an accident, then it really sucks to be you. Like I said before, I acted stupid and got lynched on day 1 in NM1, so it happens." basic attack on strager's roleclaim


"strager wrote:
This could be a crazy tactic used by kuu. He's acting so strange that he must be a Mafia. But then again, why would a Mafia attract so much attention to himself?

Kuu is just fucking stupid. xd I'm really not sure what to make of him at the moment. I don't he's witty enough to use a tactic like the one you wrote about."


"derekku chan wrote:
c) Mafia will lynch you so you can't help the town. (Unless you are mafia)

Or night kill. I think I meant both. Doesn't matter."


"Time to give my suspicion list :3

Echo is being über aggressive, but you've been that way in all the games so that doesn't really say anything. :>

bagelbob is just acting retarded.

0_o voted adam off the bat for no fucking reason, then changed to kuu with no reason, and then to nardi for no reason. This is *very* suspicious to me.

olinad hasn't said much.

adam jumped in and voted for strager for voting for echo. inb4longertrainofvotes

SFG just joined in, so I'm not sure what to make of her, yet. But she was awful quick to vote...

nardi hasn't said much.

strager is mildly suspicious to me, but I still have doubts. He is a newbie to this game and could just be making mistakes. Or he knows what he's doing. Or he's mafia... hmm... Also, he voted Echo off the bat with no reasoning or discussion. wtf" aka summary of half of Day 1


"I'm really sick of all this shit flying back and forth. To sum up how I feel without having to type a 20-page essay, Echo needs to stop being so fucking aggresive. strager has never even played before, and you're throwing every fucking thing in the book at him. We're human. We make mistakes. We slip up. It doesn't mean that strager is the bad guy, and the way that you keep pushing shit at him is really making you look the most suspicious in my book.

I'm finally throwing my vote down.

Vote. Echo.

*goes to lay down because his back is killing him*derek gets pissed at strager/echo debate


"Sorry to upset you, but I think that sometimes you just go a little over the top. Like LadySuburu said, this is a game. You're a good player, but maybe you should tone it down just a teeny bit. :/

To me, talking too much is similar to not talking much at all. It makes you look suspicious for getting on everyone's case. :/

And no, I don't expect the mafia to jump up and bite me in the face, but I don't even know what to say anymore. I'm sorry, okay? " apology


"I made a mistake.

I am enjoying the game.

Again, sorry for saying that to you. I was comparing you to everyone else for the wrong reason.

I'll go back through the thread tomorrow and look at everyone's points again." more apology


"Ugh. I kept getting distracted by other things. >_<

But for now, I at least want to do this. (forgot to yesterday)

Unvote Echo."


"strager wrote:
What bangwagon? ;P

By the time nardi voted for you, strager, two other people had voted for you. He seemed to only vote for you because you were the "most suspicious", which isn't a good reason imo.

strager wrote:
No one's random vote was explicitly denoted as a random vote by the voter, either.

I meant in the case that nardi's vote WAS a random vote, which I don't think it was, but I wanted to cover that ground "mild attack on strager


"On the bandwagon against strager? I've already stated many times that I believe strager isn't mafia. :/

If you meant the bandwagon that thinks strager is innocent, then yes, I'm on it, but so is like of us. >_>

So I really don't get what you meant."


"strager, are you NOT fucking listening? There's no point in coding over 9000 lines of code. No lynch day 1 = Free kill for mafia.

Should we also NOT lynch day 2? Day 3?

Like SFG said, I'm starting to wonder about you, strager "


"strager, you don't seem to realize that in every setup for this game, there are TWO mafia. Unless you think that one of them is going to kill the other at night, then I don't know what the hell you're trying to get at."


"0_o wrote:
That, and throwing someone on L-2 is a pretty effective way of getting them to speak up

nardi is on L-1 ;/"


"Echo wrote:
You're refusing to defend yourself against my evidence, and you're refusing to bring any evidence against me, yet you claim you are townie and I am mafia?

I think the simple answer is that there is no evidence you can use to defend yourself, and there is no evidence you can bring against me. Which means you are mafia, and I am townie.

Echo brings up good points. :/

Vot- Nah.

FOS: strager (because it wasn't already obvious </sarcasm>)"


"Because nardi hasn't defended himself either. He was at L-1 and still hadn't posted. He may just be a townie that does't give a crap about the game, though. =/

But as one of you said: If a townie gets lynched that didn't contribute in the first place, it wouldn't even be a loss. :<"

Derekku wrote:

As SFG said, I was not the only one to defend strager, so don't try using that as an argument that I'm scum. Also, I've said at least once that I don't like strager's suspicious behavior and that I'm suspicious of him. If I was in cahoots with strager, I wouldn't be pushing suspicion on him (or obviously myself).

I haven't been posting a lot because 1) I've been busy IRL 2) I haven't really had much to say.

What I think about the other players in no particular order

Echo - I don't think he's mafia. But he's really good at this game so maybe he is and he's just covering it up good. I'm not sure what to think atm~

0_o - Keeps pointing fingers at adam for no reason; Defends strager; I don't understand this.

Olinad - Hasn't posted a whole lot, so I really don't what to make of him. One reason I thought nardi was scum was because he didn't post much, but we know how far that went... I won't use the same thing on olinad. Unless that's what he wants me to think... brb WIFOM (PS Oli, post moar plz)

adam - I really see nothing suspicious about adam, but he hasn't said a whole lot either. Please post more =) inb4youtwoaremafiatogetherandyou'redefendinghimyouscum

SFG - Has also been pointing towards adam for no reason. I must be missing something here. -_-

strager - I'm very suspicious of him. On one hand he could truthfully be the doctor and we should keep him safe, but on the other hand he could easily be mafia. I'm still trying to analyze information in my head about what I think about strager. :/

"I said that because I was sick of the arguing back and forth. Now I see that I shouldn't have posted that and I was just raging that night because I wasn't feeling good. Like I said earlier, I'm not "buddy buddy" with strager. I'm very suspicious of him just like most of us are."


"In this post, I said that I wasn't suspicious of adam. I said that because he hasn't said a whole lot, but now that I think about it, that only makes him MORE suspicious. He has hardly backed up any of his claims at all. What started off as a random vote against strager quickly turned into some sort of plan. Every time he has voted for strager, he's acted like strager is just another person instead of scum. If adam is mafia, then this fits. His goal is to eliminate all townies, which makes strager one too (save his possible aux role). I've hardly seen anything useful from adam's posts. 0_o, Echo, SFG, strager, and myself all defend our accusations on others and accusations against ourselves.

So: Vote adam"



"strager wrote:
I see how far that reasoning went with nardi.

nardi barely posted at all. But I meant: Whenever adam posts, it's nothing useful.

strager wrote:
I guess that is true. If I recall his reasoning for voting for me yesterday was because I was suspicious and Echo had a convincing argument.

Exactly. adam keeps saying over and over that you're "suspicious", but hasn't backed it up with anything of his own. At least Echo had arguments.

strager wrote:
I still don't see how this makes adam a Mafia. Can you try explaining in a different way?

What I said above in this post =)"justifying vote on adam


"I would say how suspicious it is that you guys turned around at the drop of a hat to believe that Echo is the cop, but I think I believe him too. :<"

@strager: I assume you're talking about this post

Derekku Chan wrote:
I would say how suspicious it is that you guys turned around at the drop of a hat to believe that Echo is the cop, but I think I believe him too. :<

I believed that Echo was cop, and he was. He voted for adam just like I had, but he really had no reason to other than possibly a random vote since he wasn't going to be around. The reason I voted for adam was because:

1) he hadn't been talking much
2) he wasn't giving any good reasoning for his votes
3) to make him talk

I don't see how I'm betraying anyone o_o

you're gonna have to read them yourselves to figure out what you think. doing Wojjan/Olinad next, in a different post

Olinad/Wojjan post


"...yep, I'm in a different time zone That's why I still hadn't written anything.

Anyway, I'll wait a bit more before voting as usual... right now I'd vote for Kuu just because he's so pissing me off with all those messages... -.-' But I dunno if it's a good idea for the game."


"GMT +1, and I'm still going to school every morning til saturday... so I won't be here so much!"


"OMG I think I lost track of the voting situation -.-' May anyone post the list of the votes made up to now? I read the discussion but I don't want to make a vote without knowing the situation"


"thx, brb" note: he returned almost exactly 3hrs later

Olinad wrote:

strager wrote:

Echo wrote:

tbh if strager had said something like "I'm just curious to know about the rules around the doctor and how protection works" I wouldn't have had anything to go on, since that would only lead to WIFOM thinking.

Well, I don't ask questions like that, really. I try to be a little more specific in my questions than "how does the Doctor work exactly?" If I had asked the question you suggest I would probably get an answer similar to what the PM states and not what I wanted to know. But you're right, the "claim" wouldn't be discovered and maybe I would have been better protected (because I don't have to worry about the Mafia trying to kill me because they don't know I am the doctor).

Olinard, are you back yet? It's been more than two hours since you said "brb." ;P

EDIT: Echo, what is WIFOM thinking? xD Sounds like "superhypothetical" thinking.

lol UR right, but I was busy XD

I really dunno who to vote... mmh...

"How much time do I have left? XD"


"Saturos-fangirl wrote:
<strager|irc> LS is in TX?
<strager|irc> and so is BagelBob?
<strager|irc> </guesses>
<BagelBob> so?
<BagelBob> If Olinad posts 5 min before the deadline, he's a dead-man
<SFG|Rh> ^
<SFG|Rh> oh i should post that
<BagelBob> I think that it's generally understood


Well, I want to say sorry for my absence - I had an important exam yesterday and so I was pretty busy. I managed to read something about the discussion but I'm still kinda confused, so I guess I won't vote today not to make mistakes I could regret having done"


"Yes I'll try to " try to be more active - see how well THAT one worked -_-


--Day 2--

Yep I guess today I'll do something new and try to show a bit of thinking from my side.
The names arein random order as I'm writing from the Wii and have no time nor will to write an alphabetical list :E

*) strager looks suspicious, but I think he only made a mistake at the beginning and then thought that not claiming as the doctor would be even worse than doing it. So I gues that even if the chances he's Mafia are high, the chances of him being the doctor are quite as high so I wont' vote for him right now.

*) Derekku isn't posting much, but well, even I am not posting much but that doesn't mean I'm part of the mafia... And even not helping the train of thought can lead to mafia, as he could simply be hiding as he has an aux role or not knowing what to say as he's confused (as I am actually! XD). So I guess I have no motivation to vote for him.

*) Echo is always a big question mark in my head. I have no idea of what his role could be, as he's always attacking and really rarely defending. So... I dunno, really

*) SFG seems too resolutive. Simplyfing things is good but could lead to mistakes... and jumping to conclusions about strager and 0_o being Mafia is too much I guess.

*) dunno what to say about adam ATM, I'll read the topic more carefully and point smth out but I don't see him as really suspicious

*) No idea about 0_o either - I won't hide I think he may be Mafia, but I'm not really sure as others are.

So I guess I'll vote SFG

Subi wrote:

*A wormhole opens, sucking in Olinad and spitting out Wojjan.*

*Wojjan replaces Olinad.*

strager, you hopped from one argumant to another. First you say Echo is the Cop, and he saw you were the Doctor, and left you alone, then you went to an ENTIRE new aspect, and said he fussed about you the previous day since he's a Mafia.
That does not make sense.

0_o, you're REALLY trying to get all what you say defended with reasons, either you hold an Aux you really don't want us to lose on Day 2, or you're trying to put us up with voting for the wrong guy. I'm still deciding on those scenarios, but I'll have to read this through again.

Seems like adam got muted after he was pointed out his argumants were baseless, so we could have struck a chord there. I don't see him as a Mafia, mostly because he hasn't tried anything to really defend himself (or I'm missing out on a real important post)

SFG, you're really making sense, but that may just be a cover-up. You've tried every possible angle, and explained all your reasons clearly, without overdoing it. You're least suspicious on my part, but I'm keeping my options open.

Derekku, I don't know what to really make of you. It almost seems as if everything you do is just a step without looking. Well, thay may only be the impression that I get, but it struck me as odd.

That leaves us with Echo , who is actually gathering a lot of info lately. Do you want me to answer your questions instead of Olinad? If so, I'd be happy to. I can't recall your post as I am writing, so I'll go check while I await your response. Also, you're pretty low on my list. (that means: "Likely Vanilla", FYI)

So, ask me all you want, I've read it all, I know what's happening. Thanks for letting me in, Subi!

EDIT: Derp, unvoting since Olinad's vote is pretty stupind.

"Okay, I'm gonna think WIFOM mode for a while.
What if strager isn't innocent, and is actually in the Mafia with Echo, which is why he wants us to change votes to adam?
I can't see why we should all believe you on the double.
If, of course, strager really is the doctor, and hence protecting Echo, strager will likely die tonight.
Also, you're forgetting that if we have a cop AND doctor, we're dealing with a possible roleblocker, who can stop strager in his protection.

I'm gonna refrain from voting this day, since I can't make an actually certain vote." note: this was AFTER adam had reached L


"I'm all for Derekku and SFG being Mafia. I'm trying to find concrete evidence, but I fail for now. Yet I'm keeping all odds open till some proof hits the fan."


ok i just noticed that neither Olinad nor Wojjan ever made a well-informed vote. For that matter, the substitution happened late enough that now that we need to hit mafia every day to win, we have almost nothing to go on to determine if he is indeed mafia, and just pro at lurking, or if he is town and just didnt make time for the game. So basically we can't afford to guess his role wrong and we don't have any evidence to point us in either direction.

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

ok i just noticed that neither Olinad nor Wojjan ever made a well-informed vote.

Well, I don't think you can really say that for anyone. However, he/they doesn't seem to give too much reasoning behind the votes they have made.

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

we have almost nothing to go on to determine if he is indeed mafia

Any information is better than none. Wojjan has made some possible slips (see later here).

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

So basically we can't afford to guess his role wrong and we don't have any evidence to point us in either direction.

Then find at least one Mafia so you can worry about the other tomorrow.

Wojjan wrote:

0_o, you're REALLY trying to get all what you say defended with reasons, either you hold an Aux you really don't want us to lose on Day 2, or you're trying to put us up with voting for the wrong guy. I'm still deciding on those scenarios, but I'll have to read this through again.

0_o obviously doesn't have an aux role, but he seemed pretty convinced I was a Doctor, and that has been shown by Echo and his death to be true. He was trying really hard to protect me so I'm not lynched, so I would say that's his reason for being defensive. (Reduced suspicion of 0_o.)

Wojjan wrote:

Seems like adam got muted after he was pointed out his argumants were baseless, so we could have struck a chord there. I don't see him as a Mafia, mostly because he hasn't tried anything to really defend himself (or I'm missing out on a real important post)

Uhh, why isn't he a Mafia again? I have chosen to not defend myself at times. Does that make me a Mafia? (Increased suspicion of Wojjan.)

Wojjan wrote:

SFG, you're really making sense, but that may just be a cover-up. You've tried every possible angle, and explained all your reasons clearly, without overdoing it. You're least suspicious on my part, but I'm keeping my options open.

I have no idea what to think of that comment. Sounds very wishy-washy to me. (Slight increase of suspicion of Wojjan.)

Wojjan wrote:

Derekku, I don't know what to really make of you. It almost seems as if everything you do is just a step without looking. Well, thay may only be the impression that I get, but it struck me as odd.

Perhaps because he doesn't care about the Day? (Slight increase of suspicion of Derekku.) Also, it seems like Wojjan is somewhat defending Derekku, showing that his actions are pretty much arbitrary. (Increased suspicion of Wojjan.)

Wojjan wrote:

That leaves us with Echo , who is actually gathering a lot of info lately. Do you want me to answer your questions instead of Olinad? If so, I'd be happy to. I can't recall your post as I am writing, so I'll go check while I await your response. Also, you're pretty low on my list. (that means: "Likely Vanilla", FYI)

Question was: "can you please rate, in order, who you would vote for out of adam, derekku and 0_o and why?"

I would like this answered myself, please.

Next up is a vote log.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

Wojjan wrote:

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

ok i just noticed that neither Olinad nor Wojjan ever made a well-informed vote. For that matter, the substitution happened late enough that now that we need to hit mafia every day to win, we have almost nothing to go on to determine if he is indeed mafia, and just pro at lurking, or if he is town and just didnt make time for the game. So basically we can't afford to guess his role wrong and we don't have any evidence to point us in either direction.

Throw me a bone here, I just got here 4 days ago and this thread is filled with WIFOM's and hypothetical whatnot. It actually is pretty hard to make head or tails out of it, so that's probably why I didn't justify my votes that much. At least I tried hard to understand, and gave my summary on all of this. Also, the only time I really voted was in my last post, when I said Derekku and SFG could be Mafia. I REFRAINED from voting the day beforehand not to make any mistakes and get shouted at for being Mafia. Which I'm not, but it's silly to say so, since you wouldn't believe anyone who says that. If I were to deal with someone who was just now replaced, I wouldn't judge him on how he based his votes, but that's just my way of thinking. I can understand that you're on the LyLo, and need to make decisions.

I'm trying to find evidence, but aside that Page 38 post someone else already pointed out, I can't find anything. Either you are innocent, or you play your Mafia role really well.

lol you complain about wifom and then "Derekku and SFG could be Mafia" i found that amusing

anyways what im trying to say is we dont have much chance to GIVE you although i would hope that we give you as much as is possible for us to give you.

EDITED my previous post to not make a double post answering only one question, but since SFG ninja'd me, I could've just posted anew...

OK, from my perspective there are 3 possible mafia pairs:

SFG-Wojjan
Derekku-Wojjan
Derekku-SFG

Now for the most part there has been little interaction between any of these pairs. However, there is one post that really sticks out in my mind: Olinad's vote for SFG. Olinad was a fairly new player, and seeing as he hardly posted anything else, I find it very hard to believe that his only vote would be against his fellow teammate if he was mafia. The fact that SFG voted for Olinad earlier also helps solidify this. So this would take one pair off the list, leaving:

Derekku-Wojjan
Derekku-SFG

So if I'm correct, then Derekku has to be mafia. Thoughts?

0_o wrote:

So if I'm correct, then Derekku has to be mafia. Thoughts?

You're forgetting combinations with you in them.

;P

0_o wrote:

OK, from my perspective there are 3 possible mafia pairs:

SFG-Wojjan
Derekku-Wojjan
Derekku-SFG

Now for the most part there has been little interaction between any of these pairs. However, there is one post that really sticks out in my mind: Olinad's vote for SFG. Olinad was a fairly new player, and seeing as he hardly posted anything else, I find it very hard to believe that his only vote would be against his fellow teammate if he was mafia. The fact that SFG voted for Olinad earlier also helps solidify this. So this would take one pair off the list, leaving:

Derekku-Wojjan
Derekku-SFG

So if I'm correct, then Derekku has to be mafia. Thoughts?

i kinda agree about Derekku but i think that its possible for a mafia to vote for their partner to divert suspicion from the pairing in the case that one dies - see my logic when i thought you and strager were partners

strager wrote:

0_o wrote:

So if I'm correct, then Derekku has to be mafia. Thoughts?

You're forgetting combinations with you in them.

;P

0_o wrote:

OK, from my perspective there are 3 possible mafia pairs

Im just saying my thoughts, and in my mind I don't consider myself a potential mafia Though if anyone else wants to throw a pair analysis with me in the mix go ahead, you'll probably do a better job at analyzing my own suspicion than I would

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

i kinda agree about Derekku but i think that its possible for a mafia to vote for their partner to divert suspicion from the pairing in the case that one dies - see my logic when i thought you and strager were partners

Of course it's possible.

I really want to hear what both Derekku and Wojjan have to say about 0_o's deduction though.

SFG wrote:

i kinda agree about Derekku but i think that its possible for a mafia to vote for their partner to divert suspicion from the pairing in the case that one dies - see my logic when i thought you and strager were partners

That's true, but do you think a new, relatively inexperienced player would try that?

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0_o wrote:

SFG wrote:

i kinda agree about Derekku but i think that its possible for a mafia to vote for their partner to divert suspicion from the pairing in the case that one dies - see my logic when i thought you and strager were partners

That's true, but do you think a new, relatively inexperienced player would try that?

i thought of that in my first game of mafia. so either im a super intelligent player or its just kinda common sense.

YES, i do think any player of any experience would try that if they thought about it

Wojjan wrote:

I'd think that the possible pairs are:
Derekku - SFG (unlikely, unless SFG is really a good actor)
Derekku - 0_o (0_o defending auxes to seem townie)

you forgot SFG - 0_o

of course, i know that thats wrong but thats because im me and i know im not mafia but you still forgot it

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Saturos-fangirl wrote:

you forgot SFG - 0_o
of course, i know that thats wrong but thats because im me and i know im not mafia but you still forgot it

I didn't feel that happening. I think it's because you didn't defend one another nor distanced one another.
It just wouldn't seem likely to me.

okay im going to say this much

IF Derekku is town then either the two people voting him are both mafia (IMPOSSIBLE since strager is innocent) or there is at least one mafia about to bandwagon for a quick lynch and then a win.

since this has not happened, and all players are present....Derekku MUST BE MAFIA.

thoughts on this before we kill him?

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

okay im going to say this much

IF Derekku is town then either the two people voting him are both mafia (IMPOSSIBLE since strager is innocent) or there is at least one mafia about to bandwagon for a quick lynch and then a win.

since this has not happened, and all players are present....Derekku MUST BE MAFIA.

thoughts on this before we kill him?

I was just about to say this

vote derekku

0_o wrote:

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

okay im going to say this much

IF Derekku is town then either the two people voting him are both mafia (IMPOSSIBLE since strager is innocent) or there is at least one mafia about to bandwagon for a quick lynch and then a win.

since this has not happened, and all players are present....Derekku MUST BE MAFIA.

thoughts on this before we kill him?

I was just about to say this

vote derekku

lol Derek is back on L-1

ANYWAYS remember what i said about needing information on Wojjan today?
so dont fucking kill Derek until we have some idea of everyone else!

Saturos-fangirl wrote:

so dont fucking kill Derek until we have some idea of everyone else!

Exactly why I unvoted.

Derekku, PLEASE don't vote for yourself, even if you are a Mafia.

I'm looking for second opinions on this: viewtopic.php?p=151137#p151137

Also,
Vote: 0_o

strager wrote:

SFG's vote against Wojjan (Olinad) was one in a series of wishy-washy votes. However, all of these votes by SFG have been on proven Townies, except Wojjan (Olinad), who hasn't been proven as a Mafia or Townie yet. I don't see SFG's reasoning behind her vote against Olinad (link), either.

Olinad's vote against SFG is pretty vague, too...

sorry i thought it was clear but ill explain that now. i voted for Olinad 1. because i didnt want strager lynched 2. because i didnt want to have NO vote and 3. because i wanted him to contribute more. I had no intention of actually letting him get lynched, although at this point i think we might have been better off having lynched him rather than nardi because of the fact that now we have very little info on Wojjan.


not sure if that helps or harms me in your view but its the truth

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This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

Strager, you made a complete vote tally, but you forgot to list Derekku in day 2. Who did he vote for?

So SFG, you are saying you want to wait till Derekku talks before we kill him?

Also, why the vote strager?

Wojjan wrote:

Strager, you made a complete vote tally, but you forgot to list Derekku in day 2. Who did he vote for?

Ah, I musta missed his vote. I don't recall him voting. I'll look at it again and update that post.

(Disclaimer read: "(There may be mistakes. Please correct me!)")

On popular demand, unvote

although I really don't feel comfortable in doing so

0_o wrote:

So SFG, you are saying you want to wait till Derekku talks before we kill him?

Also, why the vote strager?

well, not just until Derekku talks, but until we've all talked about each other. the more talking that happens now, the more likely it is that the other mafia will make a slip we can catch, so we arent trying to vote blindly tomorrow

Wojjan wrote:

On popular demand, unvote

although I really don't feel comfortable in doing so

its not like we're going to run out of time, we have an entire week to discuss and i dont see why we shouldnt make sure we use that. Derekku is going to die either way.

Wojjan, I've updated my vote log.

To edit my combination list and vote pattern analysis (changes marked):

strager wrote:

Day 1
0_o: SFG
0_o: -

SFG: Wojjan
SFG: -

SFG: nardi
Derekku: nardi
0_o: nardi

Day 2
Wojjan: SFG
Wojjan: -

Derekku: adam new!
0_o: adam
SFG: adam

0_o was on both lynches, as was SFG. Derekku was on Day 1's. stricken! Wojjan didn't touch either.
0_o, SFG, and Derekku were all on both lynches. new!

0_o's vote for SFG early game was really against kuu, and it seemed pretty random, so I'll ignore that.

SFG's vote against Wojjan (Olinad) was one in a series of wishy-washy votes. However, all of these votes by SFG have been on proven Townies, except Wojjan (Olinad), who hasn't been proven as a Mafia or Townie yet. I don't see SFG's reasoning behind her vote against Olinad (link), either.

Olinad's vote against SFG is pretty vague, too...

In Derekku's vote against adam, Derekku chose adam (a known Townie) over 0_o (a possible Mafia). new!

strager wrote:

Day 1

Day 1
SFG: nardi
Derekku: nardi

Day 2

Derekku: adam new!
SFG: adam

Notice a pattern? They both voted on the SAME townies

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

My guess is that it's Derekku and SFG. I had my eye on Derekku of course and SFG was pretty much found out.

Vote Derekku. This is SO going bad

Wojjan wrote:

Vote Derekku. This is SO going bad

Game's over bud.

I just now noticed. Thanks bunches "Doctor"

Wojjan wrote:

I just now noticed. Thanks bunches "Doctor"

Hah.

Actually I was a Vanilla Townie all along. =D I know the Mafia knew this after Echo died because, of course, there's no role blocker.

strager wrote:

Wojjan wrote:

I just now noticed. Thanks bunches "Doctor"

Hah.

Actually I was a Vanilla Townie all along. =D I know the Mafia knew this after Echo died because, of course, there's no role blocker.

Yup.

Like I said in IRC, i was busy doing yardwork and was about to take a shower when a jumped on irc and saw what was going on. Nice ending~

RAGE

*hugs 0_o* ^_^

ECHO DEATHSCENE

SFG stelthily crept out of her sleeping place, looking sadly over at her night's target. Derekku was emerging from the other side of the room, where he slept to keep people from suspecting that he was with her.

"Tonight's the night we kill him, right?" He whispered. SFG nodded and silently drew a sword from hammerspace. This she passed to Derekku before pulling a small covered needle from inside her bra.

"Give me a couple moments with him first, I'll signal you when its time." She shuddered slightly. Derekku looked at her a bit suspiciously, but relented. SFG gently walked up to the man and, after removing the cover, slid the needle into his arm. She waited a minute for the paralytic to take effect and then placed her hand over his mouth and began patting the side of his face softly.

"Echo...wake up, I need to talk to you..."


Echo heard a feminine voice fading in and out like a radio. His body felt strangely stiff and heavy, and...it was night.... oh shit.... He opened his eyes and the blurry outline of SFG's face appeared in front of him. She was shaking him slightly, but stopped when she noticed his eyes open.

SFG? SFG was MAFIA? He looked around to find the other - Derekku - standing back with a drawn sword in his hand, completely ready to kill. Every nerve in his body was screaming to move, to call out and wake the others, to get away, but he couldn't move his body at all and her hand was over his mouth. Then she leaned in close to his ear and murmured to him.

"I'm sorry, dear friend, I really am. But I have to survive to keep Peppy and you're too smart - I was always afraid that you would catch me when I was talking to you because I couldn't bear to conceal it from you. And then when you turned out to be a cop?" A tear dripped from her face onto his cheek, startling him. She was crying?!? "Sleep well, Echo...I've made it as quick and painless as I can...your entire body is numb from poison so you won't feel it at all..." She gave a little signal to Derekku, who stepped forward and brandished the sword. This was the end....

"I will never forget you!" SFG whispered as the sword came down.


The sword pierced straight down through Echo's heart and he stiffened, his eyes staring up at her as the life poured out of them. SFG pulled out a tissue and blew her nose, weeping. Derekku grabbed the tissue from SFG and used it to clean the sword, then handed it back to her. She sniffled, then put it back in hammerspace and fell to silent weeping on Echo's corpse while Derekku snuck back. After some time, she took a final look at the dead, frightened eyes and returned, falling into a deep slumber.

Final Votecount:

0_o - 3 (strager, Derekku, SFG)
Derekku - 1 (0_o)

Not Voting - 1 (Wojjan)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*strager's vote was quickly seconded and thirded by Derekku and SFG, and 0_o was quick to be hanged.*

0_o - Vanilla Townie - Lynched D3

*As Wojjan and strager looked through the belongings, they felt a prick, and their body and mind both went numb. The last thing they saw, was Derekku pointing a gun at their heads...*

strager - Vanilla Townie / Wojjan - Vanilla Townie - Killed in endgame.

*Derekku and SFG, Mafia, Win!*

ENDING STORY:

*Derekku stood triumphantly, happy that they had won flawlessly.... That is, until she felt a strange numbing sensation too... Derekku barely had time to utter a "...Why...?" before the venom took her.*

Derekku - Mafia Goon - killed in the final story.

*SFG took a moment to take in the power, the glory of being the lone survivor.*

SFG: Why? Because it has to be all mine! Peppy! The power! ALL MINE! *Evil laugh*

LadySuburu wrote:

As Wojjan and strager looked through the belongings

Seriously.

WHAT THE FUCK!?

LadySuburu wrote:

*SFG took a moment to take in the power, the glory of being the lone survivor.*

SFG: Why? Because it has to be all mine! Peppy! The power! ALL MINE! *Evil laugh*

Have fun being lonely.

MUCH LESS INTERESTING BAGELBOB DEATHSCENE


SFG and Derekku watched the sleeping villagers quietly. Derekku appeared someone nervous, and SFG, with a half-smile, ruffled his hair reassuringly. Then she pulled out a blowgun and a dart, aimed carefully, and fired the dart into the side of BagelBob's neck. Within moments, his body was seized by convulsions.

"Sleep well..." SFG murmured, then nodded to Derekku and resumed her "sleeping place" impassively. Perhaps five minutes later, BagelBob ceased spasming, let out a little moan, and was gone.

This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.

LadySuburu wrote:

*Derekku stood triumphantly, happy that they had won flawlessly.... That is, until she felt a strange numbing sensation too... Derekku barely had time to utter a "...Why...?" before the venom took her.*

Didn't you do this in Mafia 1 too? >_> I'm a guy ._.;;;

...a dead guy...

*ghost* ;^;

Poor Derekku, She doesn't want to be called a girl. *Evil*

So I was thinking about a custom variation of NM.

Hows abouts this:

When a kill occurs (lynch or at Night), the victim's role is not revealed.

Roles:
2 Mafia
1 Doctor Townie
1 Cop Townie
1 CSI Townie
4 Vanilla Townies

Another combination:
2 Mafia
1 Doctor Townie OR 1 Cop Townie OR CSI Townie
1 CSI Townie
7 Vanilla Townies

Another:
1 Mafia
1 Role Blocking Mafia
1 Doctor Townie OR 1 Cop Townie
2 CSI Townie
6 Vanilla Townies

CSI may investigate any dead person at night. CSI investigates AFTER a Mafia makes their kill. He's basically a Cop for the dead, except the results are found the Day after for the town to see. That is, the CSI doesn't reveal his role by stating the role of a dead person.

Cop may not investigate the dead. CSI may not investigate the living. If they do, their investigation fails.