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Rule: Uninherited timing sections must be the same in every diff

posted
Total Posts
26
Mismagius
9,313 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
Mismagius
Uninherited timing sections must be the same in every difficulty of the mapset. That is, each section must have the same BPM and offset in each difficulty. Furthermore, there must not be extra or missing uninherited sections in any difficulty. A song's timing doesn't change between difficulties, so there's no sense in having different uninherited sections per difficulty.
Basically, some maps might have some GOOD reasons to have different BPMs between difficulties. An example is Big Black, that had some problems because Taiko's BPM was 180 because of some glitches that would happen if the BPM was 360; while the standard difficulty was 360BPM.

I suggest to just add this small exception to the rule.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
Instead of fixing the rule, we should fix the Taiko bug instead.
Mismagius
9,313 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
Mismagius

Sakura Hana wrote:

Instead of fixing the rule, we should fix the Taiko bug instead.
However we all know this won't happen soon. We have to decide on something before it happens.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,842 posts
Joined March 2010
OnosakiHito

Sakura Hana wrote:

Instead of fixing the rule, we should fix the Taiko bug instead.
At the moment, as we can see as Taiko community:
No Taiko Rules = No big changes

peppy said something similiar before.
We would be glad to talk about this allready without such detours but well...
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
And editing a General rule is going to solve the Taiko bug? plus i'm quite certain the maps that arent getting ranked/approved as exceptions have nothing to do with Taiko But with altering the tick rate in the middle of the map on certain potions of the song and on certain difficulties?
Mismagius
9,313 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
Mismagius
But a map that got approved had this rule keeping it from being approved and it had this exact reasoning on it, so we should make it at least fair for whoever has the same problem? It's a rare case, but doesn't mean it won't ever happen again.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

Blue Dragon wrote:

But a map that got approved had this rule keeping it from being approved and it had this exact reasoning on it, so we should make it at least fair for whoever has the same problem? It's a rare case, but doesn't mean it won't ever happen again.
It should be common sense already that the Taiko bug is an exception to the rule (for most BATs anyways) so i dont see why it was keeping it? If you want reasoning refer to this: viewtopic.php?p=1082222#p1082222
Mismagius
9,313 posts
Joined July 2008
Topic Starter
Mismagius

Sakura Hana wrote:

It should be common sense already that the Taiko bug is an exception to the rule
This is the problem. People apparently will take it too seriously and ignore the common-sense stuff.
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,842 posts
Joined March 2010
OnosakiHito
@Sakura Hana:
Well, you are right, totally. I just want to say what other influence people have said/mentioned before .
Having Taiko Rules -> Getting more things. As for example fixing bugs how it seams like nowadays.
That's why some of our threads in the past has been closed, and that's why we have still some bugs, not just one.
mm201 is the first, after years, who gaved his possible support by scripting something for us after we opened the Taiko rule thread.

And because of light my fire, as you can see the bug is known and still nothing happened, like fixing it.
ouranhshc
2,338 posts
Joined July 2009
ouranhshc
osu! diffs aren't as limited as taiko diffs when it comes to SV manipulation.



Edit: Sakura, that isn't common sense. common sense is something that most people know
DaxMasterix
Former osu!catch Champion: 2013
1,562 posts
Joined February 2010
DaxMasterix

ouranhshc wrote:

Sakura, that isn't common sense. common sense is something that most people know
She does her work.. And does a good job

1 thing. Taiko is not of osu!
There are many solutions.. And i think.. can be different BPM is the BPM's Are proportional.. don't affect in the Gameplay. [For APP]
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201

Blue Dragon wrote:

However we all know this won't happen soon.


In the new build, all notes appear at the same spot onscreen as HS1.0. (I can't tell you when the next public will be.)
lepidopodus
3,548 posts
Joined November 2009
lepidopodus
Due to duplicate barlines, which appears when BPM/offset changes in some case, can cause Taiko player confused. Due to this some Taiko mappers (including me) use additional uninherrited section and remove some barlines via resetting time signature. Isn't this ok cause it does not affect actual timing?

And sometimes standard mappers using wrong time signature blame Taiko mappers using correct time signature via placing more uninheritted sections, based on this rule. Please make sure this won't be happened, my dear MATs & BATs.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
You should be able to carry those changes back into the osu! difficulties no problem, right? An incorrect metronome is poor form in any case.

When adding your red lines, you need to make sure you prevent rounding errors from making your offset drift. To do this, you should either:
1. Place the new timing sections starting with the last and work your way back.
2. Add the new timing sections as green lines, then turn them into reds once all of them are placed.
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
Taiko should be considered completely separate from osu difficulties, except that they happen to be in the same beatmap set and must be simultaneously approved/ranked.

I see no reason that a taiko difficulty needs to have the same bpm as the osu difficulty, as taiko is severely BPM dependent. osu standard doesn't actually ever need to have a correct bpm.

most of the time, though, I've found that the taiko mapper is correct. I do wish we could change the time signature properly with uninherited sections. It only works if you're on the right measure.
bmin11
5,438 posts
Joined October 2008
bmin11
I think ziin pretty much summarized all issues with that post and I fully support it.

Of course, having a different timings for each difficulty will cause problem with the osu! main menu screen (which I heard peppy is heavily concerned with). Since I think Taiko difficulties having different the timing with Standard difficulty is necessary on certain cases, I think we now need a solution for this problem instead of just avoiding it.
mm201
osu! Alumni
4,495 posts
Joined August 2008
mm201
osu!'s bright main menu flashes appear at exactly the same times as taiko bar lines.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

ziin wrote:

I see no reason that a taiko difficulty needs to have the same bpm as the osu difficulty, as taiko is severely BPM dependent. osu standard doesn't actually ever need to have a correct bpm.
I facepalmed so hard at this, if it's the same song it has the same BPM, there's no buts nor ifs about it, music is music and it has it's BPM, there's no reason to be cutting/increasing it (Except for BD's map which was an extemly high BPM for osu!Standard) the BPM should've been kept at 360 bpm, the issue was that the taiko mapper didn't want to change to 0.7 SV and decided to cut the BPM into half instead.

The Bug occurs with BPM changes midmap, and it's going to be solved in a future public build.

Metronome resets should be present in osu!standard as much as Taiko.

So then tell me why does a taiko diff need a different BPM than an osu!standard map?
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin

Sakura Hana wrote:

ziin wrote:

I see no reason that a taiko difficulty needs to have the same bpm as the osu difficulty, as taiko is severely BPM dependent. osu standard doesn't actually ever need to have a correct bpm.
I facepalmed so hard at this, if it's the same song it has the same BPM, there's no buts nor ifs about it, music is music and it has it's BPM, there's no reason to be cutting/increasing it (Except for BD's map which was an extemly high BPM for osu!Standard) the BPM should've been kept at 360 bpm, the issue was that the taiko mapper didn't want to change to 0.7 SV and decided to cut the BPM into half instead.

The Bug occurs with BPM changes midmap, and it's going to be solved in a future public build.

Metronome resets should be present in osu!standard as much as Taiko.

So then tell me why does a taiko diff need a different BPM than an osu!standard map?
Taiko needs a different bpm because of the way that sliders work in taiko. Mappers should be able to change this as they please. There is also a problem with having taiko at high BPMs which makes the standard 1.4 SV impossible. Using a .25x SV is acceptable, but honestly why do we care? Sure it creates a problem when sorting by bpm, which is unfortunate, but we shouldn't be focused on the limitations of the GUI, only the gameplay.

Make it a guideline, sure, but there are legitimate reasons for using different BPMs in different maps. You can map a 6/8 song in 3/4 and nobody is going to complain.

mm201 wrote:

osu!'s bright main menu flashes appear at exactly the same times as taiko bar lines.
untrue, well maybe not the way you worded it, but taiko bar lines do not always occur when there is a bright main menu flash (the inverse is true).
OnosakiHito
osu!taiko Paragon
6,842 posts
Joined March 2010
OnosakiHito

Sakura Hana wrote:

the issue was that the taiko mapper didn't want to change to 0.7 SV and decided to cut the BPM into half instead.
Just to clarify one more time, before the bug wasn't fixed, notes were not seeable on HD mode, even with SV 0.70.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

OnosakiHito wrote:

Sakura Hana wrote:

the issue was that the taiko mapper didn't want to change to 0.7 SV and decided to cut the BPM into half instead.
Just to clarify one more time, before the bug wasn't fixed, notes were not seeable on HD mode, even with SV 0.70.
Still not "fixed" as it's fix it's not out in public build yet? (As far as i know)
Low
2,006 posts
Joined July 2011
Low

Sakura Hana wrote:

Still not "fixed" as it's fix it's not out in public build yet? (As far as i know)
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
lol, the changelog can be found here http://osu.ppy.sh/p/changelog it's under the info section
ziin
2,632 posts
Joined January 2010
ziin
fyi had ono used 360 bpm with 1.4 sv and x0.5 inherited, there wouldn't be any problem with hidden. this further amplifies the reason why taiko should always use 1.4.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura

ziin wrote:

fyi had ono used 360 bpm with 1.4 sv and x0.5 inherited, there wouldn't be any problem with hidden
On the contrary did you read Lepidopodus' thread in Help & Support? It's already fixed but not in public yet, it shows there quite perfectly the problem is with mid-song BPM changes, and the issue with 0.5x with 360 bpm was that the first note was glitching or something, which is why 0.7 SV was needed instead.
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro
This rule refers to lines that actually affect timing. I don't think there's anything wrong in having extra red lines for time signature purposes (although I'd like it if osu! supported more time signatures), or fixing that bug in taiko, waiting for the next release.
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