Sorry for massive wall of text again, just felt like I needed to reply to Wojjan's ridiculous accusations~
Didn't proofread, so if you find big grammar mistakes or anything that's why.
SPOILERWojjan, your reasons for wanting me lynched so bad are kind of ridiculous. You base all your agression on my vote on Salvage which, as has been made clear several times, would NEVER have led to his lynch. Even I agree that the attack/vote was super-weak, baseless and wouldn't have done anything, but that was not its intention. Yet you insist that I was "pushing for his lynch"? Sure, next thing you'll claim that RVs are pushing for someone's lynch?
If you vote someone, you are pushing for their lynch. I have been over this a million times that I don't buy your excuse that your attack was intentionally bad, or that you were baiting, so please stop bringing it up.
I'm only pushing for a lynch if I actually try to get someone killed. There's stuff like pressure votes or bait votes that don't intend to kill anyone but instead collect information. Let me quote Two from 111111, since you guys accept him as a good player:
that's because this is a game about lying. Just because I say someone is mafia doesn't mean I actually think that.
So yeah, your point is wrong. A single vote does not necessarily equal pushing for a lynch.
SPOILERI did expect someone to call me out for voting Salvage in such an obviously bad way, but when that first post consists mostly of Capslock and ad hominem (I can't even count the number of "Fuck you"s and "You suck"s), that's blowing it way out of proportion don't you think? If you think that I'm scum, you could calmly convince town with arguments and if they make sense, town would follow you. Instead you decide to intimidate everyone into voting me no matter what. Again, this is because of a single vote that wouldn't have done ANYTHING to Salvage in the long run.
Protip: Fuck you and you suck are not ad hominems. Stop trying to make me look bad.
Your argument was bad, very bad, and if I saw anyone pull that especially as a townie, since back then I was still doubting for a second if you were scum, I would accuse them all the same. I yell at you, deal with it.
"ad hominem" means personal attacks to discredit one's actions or arguments.
When your reactions to my vote and me explaining the intentions behind my vote are mostly "You Suck" and "Fuck You" that's clearly an attempt to make me look ridiculously bad and thus discredit my actions. That's the definition of ad hominem.
But I don't even care what you call it, it's not really appropriate behavior anyway.
And yes, my arument was very bad. I don't blame you for voting me. What I do blame you for is your overly exaggerated focus on only that vote and your crazy overagression.
SPOILERSalvage had even already reacted to it, by posting a reply with pretty much no reaction which is the right thing to do.
I want to know in what perverted hellhole you learnt to play mafia where not responding to posts where people accuse you is a good thing to do.
I think Salvage agrees that not responding in revealing ways to random/obviously baseless votes is good play.
Or are you saying he is a bad player because his reply post didn't contain a response to my vote?
For serious votes, sure. But defending against every random vote is wrong.
SPOILERYet you still think he would have died if you didn't flame me to death with a huge wall of capslock?
I didn't say that.
You acted like it.
SPOILERYour main complaint with my strategy-claim (forcing a reaction to get discussion started) was that "something like that doesn't exist" or "bait-votes don't exist". Just because it isn't called like that on mafiascum doesn't mean it can't exist. It certainly baited a reaction out of you, so how can you deny its existence? How is it impossible that that was my intention?
I have often voiced my complaint to NoHItter that mafiascum is an incomplete piece of fuck and that anyone who uses it is either grasping at straws or inherently bad at recognising bad strategies, but you bringing it up explains a lot more about your past posts than it should have.
What? Did you even read my post? I don't even use mafiascum and this post doesn't say I do lol All I use it for is checking rules because games on this forum seem to generally follow mafiascum.
You literally said that "bait votes don't exist" (If you want, I can even look the quote up and post it for you). What do you base this on? Personal experience? Well, then your experience is incomplete. I just assumed that you opened mafiascum, searched for the term and didn't find anything (I don't even know if it's listed) since you were obviously were baited by the vote and thus should have acknowledged that stuff like that exists.
Stop trying to make me look bad like that lol
SPOILERInstead of looking at all the possibilities (you know, like town should. To avoid mislynches and stuff) you decided to make this thread 100% about "Luna is scum" and deny any kind of further discussion with your over-the-top agression that will make sure that anyone who thinks differently will feel your wrath next. You even made it very easy for you to just continue like that by saying that you'd continue voting for me every day if I don't die now.
I did not say that. I am not saying you are scum and everyone else is town, stop putting words in my mouth.
Of course you didn't say everybody else is town. But you say that I am scum. Or is that wrong? If you think I'm town you wouldn't push my lynch that overly agressive unless you had a reason (read: Lyncher).
What I'm accusing you of is that your extreme playstyle focuses everything only on me and any other discussion that might move away from a Luna-lynch WILL get drowned in your sea of agression.
SPOILERAll that because of a single vote that wouldn't have killed anyone. Talk about blowing stuff out of proportion. The only real explaination I can see for your overexaggerated behaviour is that you need to kill me and feel like this is your only/best chance. Are you a lyncher? (inb4 "Calling your attacker a lyncher to escape a lynch? scumscumscumscumscum")
Yes, because it was a bad vote. Believe you that my first draft was a lot angrier than all my current posts, and that I had to severely cut on the fuck yous to fit forum regulations. This is a game of arguing so if you can't deal with someone yelling at you I suggest you quit now.
I am not a lyncher, and I did not say killing you now is my only OR best chance. Lynching you now or lynching you on lylo will not make a difference to me.
I can deal with it fine, but it's annoying when half the post consists of personal attacks instead of content.
Of course you didn't SAY it. That would ruin your chances at winning. You just FELT like you had to take the first opportunity before anyone could be confirmed. And sure, when you lynch me doesn't change anything for you, only that you actually get me lynched. But same goes for a lyncher.
SPOILERAnd just for the record, this is what I do/do not want and think because people seem to be confused by the way Wojjan posts my quotes out of context and think actually want Salvage dead or something.
I did not quote anything out of context, I quoted parts of your posts of which to context did not diminish anything of their truth. Read them again, read them better. If you still don't get it I will spell it out for you.
Then spell it out. There were multiple instances where you quoted "contradictions" that were not actually contradictions but looked like it out of context. Like the RVS vs Lurking scumminess issue.
SPOILER1) I did not like how Salvage discredits RVS all the time but does not actively try to start discussion himself in any discernable way.
2) I do NOT however want him lynched for that. He does exactly the same thing every game, so it's hardly a scumtell. Duh
3) I wanted to force a reaction from someone
4) I did NOT want to force a scummy reaction to bandwagon someone. That Wojjan's post turned out to be so ridiculously strange is a coincidence.
1) Salvage was adding to discussion
2) You were saying he wasn't scum and that you could have picked anyone, but now your reason which you expected to be called out on is apparently legit again? Please just stop posting.
3) You were scrabbling out of a bad accusation. Whether you are town or mafia at this point doesn't matter if you admit to deliberately posting false opinions to confuse town.
1) If you say so...
2) I didn't say that playstyle was necessarily scummy, I said that even if it were a scumtell (it's not, but I still dislike his play) it wouldn't be a viable one on Salvage since he does it every game.
3) I didn't try to confuse town, I tried to get information. Since when does "force reactions" equal to "confuse town"? Stop putting words in my mouth.
SPOILERJust in case it helps you believe my claimed strategy, go look at my posts before my vote on Salvage. they are all about how we need to get discussion going. Then Salvage says that he isn't responsible for starting discussion (or at least that's how I understood the post)
then read it again, because that's not what it says
I posted that we should get discussion started. Salvage said something along the lines of "Someone will start it eventually" I told him to do it himself if he already hated on RVs and he replied something like "I'm not the one who brought that up 2 hours ago". 2 hours ago was me posting that we need to get discussion started asap (deadlines and stuff, you know?) so to me that looked like "I didn't bring it up, I'm not responsible. Start discussion yourself".
I'd say that's an understandable train of thoughts.
SPOILERso after nothing had happened so far I felt like I should do it. Because, you know, no discussion = scum win. Easiest way to generate discussion is with a controversial vote, so I did just that. And as you can see, it worked. The thread is no longer dead. The only reason that we are only talking about me being scum is because Wojjan decided to post a huge wall of Capslock which is hard for anyone to ignore.
which brings me to 4) You say you wanted someone to post a reaction to your post, but not want to lynch them over it. However, you're voting me at the end of your wall. I did exactly what your bait was supposedly gonna do and now I'm scum because of it?
I never voted for you up to this point and it was not because of your initial reaction. I believe you are town. Your behaviour so far however has convinced me that you are most likely a Lyncher and that is absolutely not pro-town even if they are "technically" town.
SPOILERvote: Wojjan (inb4 "OMGUS-vote??? scumscumscumscumscum")
you did this with the lyncher thing too, where you make a scummy argument, actually state that it's a scummy argument, and then make it anyway, slipping it in there with an inb4. THIS DOES NOT DISCREDIT IN ANY WAY THAT THIS IS A SCUMMY ARGUMENT.
fyi, after so many (long) posts this hardly qualifies as OMGUS. Otherwise nobody would ever be allowed to vote for their attacker. Nobody. Ever. (This is also @Hernan. OMGUS looks different, I just knew it would be brought up regardless)
And Lyncher is my genuine read on you after you displayed you crazy over-focus on only lynching me asap no matter what (And you saying that you'll vote me any day after this even if I survive, no matter what).
SPOILERNow I'm gonna go on a tangent for a sec explaining what a bait vote is and how you use it:
What you did, Luna, was post a very controversial, obviously bad reason to vote someone, and wait for a reaction. That is pretty much the only part you did that had anything in common with a baitvote.
A baitvote is usually made on a flimsy reasoning, BUT WAITS FOR PEOPLE TO JUMP ON THAT BANDWAGON instead. THOSE PEOPLE FOLLOW YOU, AND YOU KNOW YOUR REASONS SUCK. THEY ARE SCUM. This is what a bait vote is fundamentally. You post a dumb thing, and wait to see if someone says “you've got a point Vote Salvage”
The other thing that could happen is someone calls you out on it. YOUR BAITVOTE FAILED, BUT AT LEAST A CRITICAL THINKER CALLED YOU OUT ON IT. THIS IS PRO-TOWN. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING YOU WANT TO HOLD AGAINST THEM A MOMENT LATER TO VOTE OVER.
Congratulations, you did understand what I would have done if anyone would have voted Salvage.
And you attacking me did make me think you are town. I still think that. Just that you are a Lyncher and thus effectively anti-town. I never said that it was wrong to attack me. I even said that it was the right decision (to lazy to look for the exact quote, but it's there). I didn't vote you because you "attacked me" but because of the way you decided to follow up on that attack.