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Chris_old
lol treestump cult

arsonist is in this game
Two_old
bmin11
You do realize Lilac is gone till D2 or something, right?

Right now, it's stupid to rolefish from a person we are not even close to lynch, because of the possibility of mafia advantaging from it. We will be gathering more info of Two's role as Day pases and more actions he does. Lynching Two right now wouldn't be really favourable (I think we have talked about this a lot already, right?)

Nothing stroke me heard when I was reading akro's ISO, but when he said "we know for a fact the mafia have fakeclaims" it makes me curious how he is accepting this as a fact when we could only go as far as just an assumption. Slip?

Lynches I'm okay with for D1: LS, Salvage, akro, NoHItter, Lyby

NoHItter's inactiveness worries me. This is unusual for NoHItter as I remember from previous games

Lyby: Same as NoHItter, unusually inactive
akrolsmir

bmin11 wrote:

Nothing stroke me heard when I was reading akro's ISO, but when he said "we know for a fact the mafia have fakeclaims" it makes me curious how he is accepting this as a fact when we could only go as far as just an assumption. Slip?

Wojjan wrote:

Those that I replace with different roles shall be given to the mafia as fakeclaims.
Two_old
why ever are you helping us akrolsmir
akrolsmir
Because, as you see, I'm mafia that wins with town.
bmin11
Oh right. Thanks akro. Now I'm seriously FoSing people who have claimed since that would be an easy way to earn town points without much risks they would take. Well, not until we found out Two's role heh
Two_old
if you'd like to share details without full on roleclaiming (but in a more direct way than swiftwolf) we may consider not lynching you today
bmin11
As I said, my role is indeed from a role from games in this forum. The win condition is different from the game it is from, but the method it uses to use it's ability is the same. Most importantly, my role is town-aligned.

I think this is the safest I can every get.
Two_old
I didn't mean you but thx anyway
pieguyn
o.o I'm not even sure what's going on.

Given Two he's obviously hiding something, but we have no way of figuring out exactly what it is. I propose at this point we just go on and if we reach a contradiction based on his information, we'll have more insight as to what his role actually is.
Rantai
This is so god damn obnoxious. Something about 3 Two's?

We have a clearly anti-town role looking for a bid to win through mutual interests, which don't actually favour us any more than an extra mislynch.

We have an invincible 'town' that wants to champion the whole game and half a roster of no opinions.

I'm going to address this right now;

Chris wrote:

the way I see it is

1.) you help kill everybody off faster

2.) i'm invincible, you/mafia can't kill me

3.) 1:1 will be me + you assuming you really are bulletproof

town eliminates all mafia and you get 1:1

we both win
No one knows what alignment you are. I don't care what you say, you are hardly confirmed. I'm not willing to bet the whole game on this giant festival of wifom. From my perspective you asking me to trust you on that is like me asking you to trust me on the exact same thing... see the problem there?

It's completely naive to think you're 100% guaranteed to be the last 2 standing. If just 2 mafia slip through the lynch/killing then you and Two are finished, they'll win by default. A 1:1 means Two wins by default. He's already stated he doesn't win with town and as far as I'm concerned, won't joint win.

What you put forward there is basically an excuse to have free reign in the killing of who you see fit (and if someone disagrees, bam votes and threats of shooting), regardless of alignment under the guise that you will champion this whole game yourself and everyone else is just a filler. I'm quite annoyed to see that no one is disagreeing with you at all, just going "Hmm I don't know, let's attack whoever they are to get on their good side!".

You two are also (or is it just Two, but right now I'm lumping you together for your extensive buddying) seem to be attempting to coerce people into claiming. Does no one see a problem with that at all?

Quite frankly I've had enough and just going to say that both of you are about as anti-town as you can publically get in my eyes. Go ahead and scumpaint me all you want now. I just don't care.

Vote: Chris

Convince me otherwise. Then again you probably won't try and attempt to get me killed.
Two_old
you can't lynch one invincible, might as well go for the other, right?

I have no qualms about lynching you over akrolsmir rantai, though it would sadden me a bit since you've put more into 1 post than all of his posts combined
Rantai

Two wrote:

you can't lynch one invincible, might as well go for the other, right?
I'd love to lynch you. But, unfortunately, you have some evidence of telling the truth so risking the lynch is not worth it. Right now I'm only comfortable with either of you simply because of how blatantly selfish and scummy (add on lacking integrity, trust) both your plays are at the moment.

I just don't see how it can be glossed over so easily. It's like an innate fear or something.
Two_old
selfish is silently picking off people

I am extending a hand. I want to work together ;)

chris was the only one who actually claimed something and it frankly doesn't matter if it's a lie since it's foolish to lynch someone who does that day 1
Rantai
Extend that to a mafia who has a safe claim. Add on a claimed unkillable role (weren't you the one who didn't believe bulletproof/NK proof claims in another game?) and that mafia have countermeasures so claiming at all is a risk in itself. What I see there is something fabricated as he cannot/doesn't need to verify it.

I understand your outwards intentions and just because it's you I am not completely disregarding it's trustworthiness (but I am 95% skeptical).
KRZY
Chris are you lynchproof also?
akrolsmir
I'm not sure about chris, but I'm still firmly convinced that Two wins with town- the fact that it is Two should give you more, not less reason to doubt the authenticity of his statements.

And the plan of having chris and Two win at the end was just so ridiculous that I didn't bother worrying about it. There are about a hundred different things that would likely go wrong before then, planning the entire game on day 1 based on a claim from Two makes no sense.
Rantai

Two wrote:

for the last time, I don't win with town
Sigh.
NoHitter
@bmin
By inactive you mean not posting every 12 hours then lol.
I'm posting my usual self, but it's being supplanted by everyone else.

Did Chris just claim independent and lynchproof/bulletproof?
Does anyone else think that we have too many "Don't lynch me." roles?
Plus he also wants he and Two to be alone at the endgame.
HoS: Chris

I would prefer a Chris lynch a lot now.
Two_old
and I would prefer an akrolsmir lynch more now

at first when we were voting him I was like "ok akrolsmir is definitely town" because of how easy it appeared

then when I saw the actual votecount and and lack of enthusiasm in general I changed my mind to "maybe"

with this resistance, he is now definitely mafia in my mind
Salvage
i actually think that akro is most likely mafia, even tho what Rantai says it's pretty logic .. we would we risking a no-lynch in case he's telling the truth .. that i really really doubt but it's not worth taking that risk imo.
Salvage
specially not d1.
Lybydose
Two's role smells like a huge pile of bullshit. I highly doubt Wojjan would include a role that could only win if people mass claimed, something he specifically recommended not doing.

It's "convenient" that the role just so happens to make him immune to death.

It's alarming that people are actually willing to follow him for some reason. It's even more alarming that one person, Chris, is proposing that we can't possibly lose since he is bulletproof + Two is everything proof (except it's still completely possible to lose if the mafia outnumber the town, plus this situation would result in only Two winning anyway).

I'm thinking Two is actually mafia with the ability to kill people who claim. One of Wojjan's "anti-claim" measures. The amount of damage such a role could do if left unquestioned is huge with the number of people that have game claimed thus far. It would be stupid to lynch him though, because there's still the slight chance he's actually telling the truth and a role this stupid exists.

I propose that Two intentionally guess the wrong game for someone Day 2. If he's been telling the truth all along, he will be "exposed as the SK" after guessing wrong. Otherwise we will know he's been lying this whole time.
Two_old
Lybydose, I'm not immune to death. You should be familiar with the concept of a strongarm. Is there a reason why you're excluding that from your argument?

What's alarming to me is how quickly the group of you are willing to throw away a potential bulletproof player (chris). Even if he isn't bulletproof, there are other town reasons for him to have claimed to be. The only logical reason to vote for him today is if you don't want to deal with that as mafia.

Lybydose, you don't have to worry about me intentionally getting a game wrong. I am sure I will with one of the first people I try to kill.
pieguyn
I'm thinking Two is actually mafia with the ability to kill people who claim. One of Wojjan's "anti-claim" measures. The amount of damage such a role could do if left unquestioned is huge with the number of people that have game claimed thus far. It would be stupid to lynch him though, because there's still the slight chance he's actually telling the truth and a role this stupid exists.
woah, someone else thought exactly what I was thinking...

I agree with Lyby's proposition, of course.
Two_old
lets review:

Day 1 mafia tell: minimal posting

Day 1 town tell: offering information

now who did what
akrolsmir
I guess a boatload of incorrect and misleading information is still information.
Two_old
now you're catching on
Rantai

Lybydose wrote:

I propose that Two intentionally guess the wrong game for someone Day 2. If he's been telling the truth all along, he will be "exposed as the SK" after guessing wrong. Otherwise we will know he's been lying this whole time.
If it were only that easy. He's already got guaranteed lynch proofs (if he is telling the truth) via the claims. Hence my original proposal of lynching off the claims to give us a chance. That of course backfires if all of them are town.

@Salvage - I might have read that wrong, but I never said to lynch Two today. Chris in the other hand is definitely not lynchproof or this set up is as broken as paska.

@Two - if someone else claims to be bulletproof would you start to question the integrity of each person's claim (applying to bulletproof only)?
Lybydose
Lets review:

Day anything mafia tell: scumpainting someone who questions your role by proposing an action that would easily confirm you
Rantai
Stop ninjaing my english fail edits. >.>
Two_old
just like I didn't question game claims, just like I didn't question role claims (in video game), I have no intentions of questioning any sort of claims here

any information is good information day 1

a lie still tells you things
NoHitter
@Two
So basically I just have to claim Bulletproof/Lynchproof and I won't be targeted for a lynch?
Yes Chris MAY be what he claims, but I highly doubt it.
Lybydose

Rantai wrote:

If it were only that easy. He's already got guaranteed lynch proofs (if he is telling the truth) via the claims. Hence my original proposal of lynching off the claims to give us a chance. That of course backfires if all of them are town.
No he only has guaranteed lynches if he's telling the truth. If he's lying and is really mafia, he's lynchable. So if he kills someone rather than guessing wrong, he isn't acting in the town's best interests by revealing himself, therefore lying, therefore mafia, therefore lynch.
Two_old
well at this point the bulletproof car is pretty full

but sure claim something else if you want
Two_old
an extra lynch day 2 is acting in the town's best interests

having that lynch be luna, ladysuburu or animask may not be in your best interest though, right lybydose?
akrolsmir

NoHItter wrote:

@Two
So basically I just have to claim Bulletproof/Lynchproof and I won't be targeted for a lynch?
That's how bulletproof works. Conversely, if you actually are bulletproof, don't tell anyone and hope mafia accidentally shoots you.
Lybydose
The only "information" you've revealed Day 1 is information that ONLY helps you. Regardless of what role you actually end up being - SK or Mafia.
Lybydose

Two wrote:

an extra lynch day 2 is acting in the town's best interests
No, acting in the town's best interests is making for damn sure you aren't a mafioso that gets an extra kill every day. An unchecked role like that would end the game quick, and certainly not in the town's favor.

The fact that you resist makes you even more likely to be mafia.
Two_old
please explain how informing you all of exactly how and why someone died in the middle of the day only benefits me

I want mafia dead just as much as you (lol) do, and I have the ability to make their removal much easier for town

it is senseless to not want to cooperate
Rantai

Lybydose wrote:

No he only has guaranteed lynches if he's telling the truth. If he's lying and is really mafia, he's lynchable. So if he kills someone rather than guessing wrong, he isn't acting in the town's best interests by revealing himself, therefore lying, therefore mafia, therefore lynch.
First line is a repeat :P

I see what you're trying to get but isn't that achieving the same thing today? If he lied we can lynch him right now. If he told the truth we cannot. If he lies tomorrow we can lynch him there and then but if he shoots a claimed then all we can do it is go, "well crap".

Right?
Rantai
Assuming he told the truth*
Salvage

Rantai wrote:

Lybydose wrote:

@Salvage - I might have read that wrong, but I never said to lynch Two today. Chris in the other hand is definitely not lynchproof or this set up is as broken as paska.

u did read that wrong, i was talking about Chris.
Lybydose

Two wrote:

please explain how informing you all of exactly how and why someone died in the middle of the day only benefits me

I want mafia dead just as much as you (lol) do, and I have the ability to make their removal much easier for town

it is senseless to not want to cooperate
Two's PM: *mafia role that lets him kill people that claim*
Two: hey guys lets claim

*Swiftwolf dies, host message makes it obvious that it was because of his claim*

Two: oh shit they're gonna suspect me because I got him to claim and then killed him, better come up with some ridiculous role
Two_old
if you were town and subsequently had to pay attention to what you read, you'd have known that it actually appeared at the point when he died that I didn't know what game he was from

to say that I claimed out of fear is laughable
Rantai

Salvage wrote:

u did read that wrong, i was talking about Chris.
Well then I addressed that, Chris is not a lynchproof due to a few factors that I am aware of. 1 being the fact that 2 unlynchables is just stupid.
Lybydose

Two wrote:

if you were town and subsequently had to pay attention to what you read, you'd have known that it actually appeared at the point when he died that I didn't know what game he was from

to say that I claimed out of fear is laughable
So you didn't know what game he was from when he died.

Yet your killing role requires you to know what game he was from.

Swiftwolf claimed the game he was from 9 minutes before Wojjan posted his message.
Two_old
it's pretty ironic that the message you just failed to read properly included a line about you needing to read properly
Rantai
Lybydose
it actually appeared at the point when he died that I didn't know what game he was from
It does not "look like" you didn't know what game he was from. It's clear that Swiftwolf claimed something and then died almost immediately after. Any person can put it together and see that whomever killed him read that message and sent in his kill. It wouldn't have been long before they pointed fingers at you, since you were the one fishing for game claims. So you claimed unlynchable SK before that happened.
Two_old
see: rantai's post
Rantai
Of course, anyone could have figured out which game he was from, just takes a small amount of effort.
Lybydose
So Wojjan's vague post actually means "he died at this point" and not "he died after posting shit"? Maybe he should make that more clear.

This doesn't change the fact that you're just arguing over what you made yourself "appear" to be, when you in fact did the opposite. ie, "I'm not going to waste time doing something you could type in 2 seconds blahblah" and then you go and do it anyway.
Two_old
exactly, anyone could have

but not only did I stop posting, the last thing I said, in a very two-esque way, was that he would be insane if he thought I was going to do work at his whim

you weren't following the thread, and you only skimmed through that part if you read it at all so you didn't have the right impression (it could also be that you were looking at this through mafia-tinted glasses)
Two_old
doubt my role all you want but your logic behind my intentions is disgustingly bad
Lybydose
So your argument for why your claim could not have possibly been a preemptive defense against people pointing you out for claim fishing was that it kinda sort not really looked like you didn't know what game he was from, even though you could have easily (and actually did) look it up to find out?
Two_old
I'm saying that your assertion that my motive was based on it being obviously me is obviously wrong.
Rantai
To pipe in, I would not have suspected Two for the kill had he not admitted to it outright.

More or less I would have treated it as a wifom attack.

Not sure about everyone else. They might have jumped onto him.
bmin11
Still, I think it's a good idea to actually test Two's role for D2 or whatever day before it's too late. The difference between testing out with Two's ability and by lynching is that we are wasting an actual lynch that everyone would cooperate if we are lynching Two to confirm. I would rather waste Two's vig shot for the day to atleast confirm part of his role (which is actually the vital one as well)
Two_old
I'm telling you, it's pointless to test my role. The roles of who I kill get revealed. If things don't match up there is your indication that I was lying. If I get it wrong then wojjan will confirm my role. Not to mention the odds of me getting it wrong are high because of mafia fakeclaims.

more focus on lynching akrolsmir please
Salvage
that's the whole point of testing your role, confirming it.



kill ivalset tommorrow
pieguyn
We already know that the vigilante part of your role works. What we want to find out is if you're actually a SK or if you're actually mafia, because if you're mafia it'd be quite devastating for this whole plan.

Granted we'd find it out when you missed one anyway, but IMO at least it's better to clear these things up in advance when we have the option to. Also, IMO at least it's somewhat likely that all the people who claimed are town :?
Two_old
the fact that I need to repeat myself is enraging so this is seriously the last time I'm going to be nice and explain this

scenario 1: I kill ladysuburu and their game doesn't match their claimed game

result: I'm mafia

scenario 2: I attempt to kill ladysuburu and get exposed as a serial killer

result: I am not mafia, ladysuburu is mafia

scenario 3: I kill ladysuburu and their game matches

result: undetermined

there is no reason to waste my ability and so I won't be wasting my ability
Lybydose
Having a person you kill turn up mafia or town doesn't confirm anything. You could be a mafia that kills his own to look town. You could be an SK "siding with town" that hits town every night.

The only to confirm is to miss a guess.
Two_old
are you fucking retarded

read what I said long and hard
Two_old
and on that note, I think it's time for me to go to bed
Lybydose
scenario 4: you kill a town player every night with their game matching until endgame because you're really mafia

result: mafia wins
Lilac
I'm back. Exams ended. Preparatory studies are starting Thursday but I doubt that will affect me.

...It might also just be me but what's with the sudden change of heart between Two and Chris? I mean, the first post was literally. "I hate you, Two." "I hate you too, Chris." and yet now you're together like bloody lovers or something...

Back to Two's role, I'm just thinking Two's role won't get exposed even if he fails. Or that he is mafia voicing this role as his own. You know, it's just these little things that bug me, you can surely be understanding of that.

Personally, his role sounds alright. No-one has counterclaimed and deathscene of Swift proves it...which reminds me. What made you want to kill Swift, Two?
Lybydose
He already said his role will get exposed if he fails.

If he fails and his role isn't exposed, he was obviously lying.
akrolsmir
I really don't understand why you guys want to spend so much time figuring out what to do with Two based on what he's claimed so far about his role. Have you not realized he's already lied about it like five times? There's still no reason to believe he's telling the truth now, especially that part about being confirmed by the mod when he fails.

vote: animask "We're focusing too much on Two. Now let me speculate about him some more."
Lilac
Which is what I meant.

I think it was polite of him to actually state that he was the one who killed Swift.

Let me bring up a point then. Two earlier said that LS, akro and Salvage all pushed for softclaiming. (Even though he was the first to suggest softclaiming, it is to benefit his role...for now.)

So with that, we can either lynch akro (that's who people want lynched now apparently...) to find out if he is mafia and that they have a role that requires a game softclaim or we can lynch Chris in order to possibly figure out the alliance that he had with Two. Regardless, if either of them turn up Mafia, then the possibility of Two being Mafia is still there.

Lynching akro and him turning up Mafia means that mafia has a game softclaim role according to Two and that mafia role might be Two's role which meant he lied about his allignment... Or it might not be, whatever it is, whoever has claimed a game so far probably will die tonight.

Remember, this is all possibilities that I'm throwing out and the reason I'm stating them now is because one day, it will bite us in the ass again. That's all it is.

Now, away from Two. I think a 0_o lynch is cool. What do you guys think?
akrolsmir
I'm against the lynching akro plan. Just putting that out there.

Did you just leave without responding, animask?
Lybydose
How does lynching akrolsmir tell us if the mafia have a role that requires a softclaim?

Why do you want to lynch faceman?
Lilac

Lybydose wrote:

How does lynching akrolsmir tell us if the mafia have a role that requires a softclaim?
Two said earlier about akro implying that a mafia role used softclaiming... I don't know if this is true but I'm just working off him.

Lybydose wrote:

Why do you want to lynch faceman?
I just put down the first person that came to mind who might be Mafia, however, I've only seen him play as Mafia in TF2 Mafia and one other one...Forgot what it was. I'm just thinking of other people who might be Mafia this time around...
Lybydose
vote: Lilac
Lilac
Without a reason like always, sure.
Lybydose
kind of like you on your proposed faceman lynch
Lilac
Proposed?

I'm sorry, let me laugh for a bit.

Okay okay, what makes you think 0_o isn't Mafia? I also personally don't believe he is Mafia because of his ISOs but what makes you think that he isn't?
akrolsmir
Let me get this straight: You don't think he's mafia but you want someone else to justify that to you, while suggesting his lynch?
Lybydose

akrolsmir wrote:

Let me get this straight: You don't think he's mafia but you want someone else to justify that to you, while suggesting his lynch?
this is why I am voting for you Lilac
Lilac

akrolsmir wrote:

Let me get this straight: You don't think he's mafia but you want someone else to justify that to you, while suggesting his lynch?
If that's the reason you've voted for me then you clearly haven't read my post.

I've given a reason he's not mafia...of course I don't want him lynched. He was just a random person who I happen to know, I voted for him out of pure boredom. Everything was going on about Two and what not.

If you want me to vote for real Mafia, that's fine. Vote: akrolsmir
Lilac
EBWOP: Not voted for 0_o, just wanted his lynch...

Even though that's not true... Ehh.

Nee nee, akro. Why are you against lynching yourself?
Lybydose
Ok so you said it would be cool to lynch faceman.

Even though you have no reason at all. When asked you can't make up your mind about it.

Furthermore you seem convinced that lynching akrolsmir will somehow tell us whether the mafia have some role that requires softclaims, even though that makes no sense.
akrolsmir
Was going to make a post but Lybydose already covered most of it.

inb4 we're lovers again.
Lilac
I'm just using Two's reasoning for akro's lynch. That's all.

Man, you're no fun at all Lybydose. For the third time, it was all out of pure boredom...
Lybydose
So you're bandwagoning with Two with no reasons of your own.

aka trying to quietly slip your vote onto a popular bandwagon
Lybydose
hi foulcoon
foulcoon
vote: Lybydose
Lilac
That almost sounded like you have a problem with it.

Let me bring this up then...

akrolsmir wrote:

Two, what game are you from? None of The Werewolf Game roles fit what you're currently claiming to have.
akro wanted Two's game because he didn't believe that any of the Werewolf Games didn't fit Two's role. This in itself isn't incriminating. Two reckons that the implications of wanting to know the actual game because he believed that Two lied. Why would akro want the 'real' game from Two?

Now that you mention it, it doesn't really require a vote for akro... Sorry. ^_^; Unvote.

And please answer my questions like it or not Doc, I'm actually answering yours.
foulcoon
oh yeah and before people get all pissed and lyby tries to incriminate me for voting for no reason

i voted for lyby because hes being a tryhard scumpainter, regardless of how stupid Lilac sounds.
Lilac
That hurt my feelings. D:

Well no matter, exams are no more for the year. I'm probably the 10th happiest person in the world right now.
Lybydose
oh ok, I guess I'll stop trying to find mafia and just post useless filler instead

so guys how much skyrim did you play this weekend?
Lilac

Lilac wrote:

And please answer my questions like it or not Doc, I'm actually answering yours.
._.
Lybydose
Why would akro want the 'real' game from Two?
I don't know, I'm not akrolsmir. Maybe he thinks Two's claim is bullshit too?

Okay okay, what makes you think 0_o isn't Mafia? I also personally don't believe he is Mafia because of his ISOs but what makes you think that he isn't?
Never said I thought he wasn't mafia, that was all you.
akrolsmir
I actually didn't (and still don't) particularly care what game Two was from, I was pointing out how his role was unlikely based on the lack of any game with a day SK in it.
Chris_old
hi

I'm not lynchproof

I am bulletproof

if I get lynched town loses end of

also lets lynch Lilac since they are back

1.) random vote on faceman

2.) join bandwagon on akrolsmir that is actually not actually based on anything but him asking for a game name

3.) leave bandwagon when they get called on it

bad mafia play 101
Chris_old
also the reason I think 1:1 with two will work is because I am unkillable and it would make no sense to not split the win

and fyi I was right about everyone softclaiming like a bunch of you did anyways

so just remember that it's all your faults he can even kill to begin with
Lybydose

Chris wrote:

also the reason I think 1:1 with two will work is because I am unkillable and it would make no sense to not split the win
You can't split a win with SK. SK wins if he has half the votes. So if it's Two vs. Bulletproof Townie, town loses.

Town can also still lose if the killer repeatedly kills town enough that the mafia has a voting advantage or equal votes over non-mafia. ie 5 mafia vs. 4 town vs. 1 SK. The killer would also lose in that case.
Chris_old
that's dumb zzz

ok so lets look at it this way

3 kills a day for 6 days = 18 deaths

21 people left

3 people remaining

me/two/another town

lynch two the end
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