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[Rule Change] Approval Drain Time

posted
Total Posts
100
Ayu
1,126 posts
Joined December 2011
Topic Starter
Ayu
This has been approved! -> click

Okay, so, this is more of an appeal against this rule.

The 6 minutes are just too much. I've tried to map several songs, but unfortunately they would've all been unrankable due to this rule. Why? it was way over 1000 combo and 18 million score. The problem was that it was only around 4~5 minutes.

I think the rule would be more fit if it would be 5:00 draining time.

Let me just make a little list with "issue's" because of this rule;
- It makes songs unmappable, (example)
- Making more difficulties for a 5 minute song is a real pain in the ass,
- ^ People will ask other people to make a difficulty, but the usual answer will be a no because it's a pain in the ass, this makes it even harder to make more difficulties,
- This will also cause demotivation, if the mapper even makes more difficulties for the sake of making it rankable, it will lead into bad and boring maps, that are just there to fulfill the mapset.
- People can't be arsed to mod a map with a long draining time that's not for approval. You see a lot of modding queue's that even only mod TV Size, or queue's that mod below 4 minute of draining time.

If this rule is made to prevent Lapfox maps or whatever, I'd say it's complete and utter horse.. We're not against the majority of otaku, so why would you guys be against breakcore, mashcore etc?

Anyway, if you got some additions to this post, just reply. If you support, reply. etc etc.
Last edited by Ayu , edited 2 times in total.
[Luanny]
8,248 posts
Joined April 2011
[Luanny]
Supporting this with my life.
btw "- ^ People will ask other people to make a difficulty, but the usual answer will be a no because it's a pain in the ass, this makes it even harder to make more difficulties"
Just adding that it is hard to find people who likes the song enough to map it. If the song is repetitive it will be even harder.
What's the problem on approving a 5 minutes map if it is great? Making not so good diffs for the sake of ranking isn't a solution either.
Zare
1,512 posts
Joined March 2012
Zare
Yes please.
I'd even say 4:30 would be enough for approval.
It's not only about the mapping itself, but about finding modders as well. Try to find some modders for a mapset with >20 minutes total drain time (4 diffs * 5 minutes).
Lach
1,118 posts
Joined November 2012
Lach
This means RLC will have a larger selection to speedrank seek approval since there isn't many t+pazolite songs left above 6:00.

Honestly, though, most of the approval maps now are just difficult, wacky, or 3:30 with a taiko. Not "marathon" as such.
Tshemmp
1,405 posts
Joined June 2011
Tshemmp
Before this new rule was introduced we got nice maps approved every few days. Now after the change these maps are supposed to go for ranking but I don't see ANY nice 5 minute map ranked in the last time. In other words, before the rule change we had least some interesting map to play. Now I rarely see any.
[Luanny]
8,248 posts
Joined April 2011
[Luanny]

Zarerion wrote:

Yes please.
I'd even say 4:30 would be enough for approval.
It's not only about the mapping itself, but about finding modders as well. Try to find some modders for a mapset with >20 minutes total drain time (4 diffs * 5 minutes).
I'd say 4:30 only if the song is repetitive and stuff but yeah
Most people refuses to mod mapsets with long songs. Ayu, add that to your post pls
Garven
osu! Alumni
5,857 posts
Joined January 2010
Garven
Um, there is no limit on score for the ranked category anymore.
Jenny
2,200 posts
Joined November 2010
Jenny
Can kinda approve of this - Force of Wind would be impossible to rank if I did not cut it, which I find sort of sad as that resulted in dumping my original diff.
Similar for Story of the End, though luckily I found people for that.

In short: It's very hard to find mods/XAT for long maps and I think, depending on the song and the map, approval should be possible for 4:30+ min songtime.
Last edited by Jenny , edited 1 time in total.
Ayu
1,126 posts
Joined December 2011
Topic Starter
Ayu

Garven wrote:

Um, there is no limit on score for the ranked category anymore.
The rules are still there, though.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes

Ayu wrote:

The rules are still there, though.
Where? The only rules that are currently active are on the wiki.
You can find it here: https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Ranking_Criteria for general rules, https://osu.ppy.sh/wiki/Standard_Ranking_Criteria for standard specific rules.

Ayu wrote:

Let me just make a little list with "issue's" because of this rule;
- It makes songs unmappable, (example)
- Making more difficulties for a 5 minute song is a real pain in the ass,
- ^ People will ask other people to make a difficulty, but the usual answer will be a no because it's a pain in the ass, this makes it even harder to make more difficulties,
- This will also cause demotivation, if the mapper even makes more difficulties for the sake of making it rankable, it will lead into bad and boring maps, that are just there to fulfill the mapset.
- People can't be arsed to mod a map with a long draining time that's not for approval. You see a lot of modding queue's that even only mod TV Size, or queue's that mod below 4 minute of draining time.
I am just going to comment on some of these. Everything is mappable, you were probably looking at the wrong rules (damn we need to clean the forums up).
More diffs for a 5 min song may be pain in the ass, but nobody is forcing you. You don't have to get your map ranked. People care about ranking maps too much nowadays. It's cool to get it ranked eventually but that shouldn't be your goal when mapping.
I don't see how it's harder to get guest diffs for that, because the song length doesn't change.
As for demotivation, that's only because people who care about ranking maps only have to work for it. Believe me, once you stop caring about getting maps ranked, there will be plenty of motivation, even that much that you will complete mapsets on a whim.
And finally, for mods, you can always ask people to mod one diff, or you can also get a lot of ingame feedback from testplaying. There are times where testplaying maps can give you better feedback than mods, in my opinion.

Just what I think, I know people disagree with me a lot on those.
Starz0r
197 posts
Joined March 2012
Starz0r
I still say the 4:30 drain time for approval is good.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
One more thing, approval doesn't mean you need to have only one diff. You can still map a few diffs. Approval is for really long stuff, 4:30 isn't that long. One 4:30 long thing is like 3 diffs of a TV Size, pretty much.
Seph
Seph
I thought if its reasonably hard (aka "special case") even though its not marathon length it can be approved, as it says on the new approval guideline?

Correct me if I'm wrong.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes


:p
Tshemmp
1,405 posts
Joined June 2011
Tshemmp

lolcubes wrote:

More diffs for a 5 min song may be pain in the ass, but nobody is forcing you. You don't have to get your map ranked. People care about ranking maps too much nowadays. It's cool to get it ranked eventually but that shouldn't be your goal when mapping.
I don't care about my own maps getting ranked, but I care about certain songs getting ranked. It's so hard to get long songs ranked, that's why we see so many japanese TV Size songs. osu! should encourage many different music genres but other artists just don't stand a chance here.
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
You can always contribute and help the mapper with mapping. RLC got pretender ranked in 5 days or something. So it's not that hard, you just have to work for it.
Seph
Seph

lolcubes wrote:



:p
eh?
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
As I said, check the wiki. The wiki will always have updated rules. That thread will get sorted out, it's really old (10 months ago). It used to be like that but there is no real criteria for "special", because everyone thinks their work is special. It just doesn't work as intended.
Sakura
osu! Alumni
7,979 posts
Joined March 2010
Sakura
The exception is for gimmick maps like ziin's Osuka

And seriously stop being lazy, 5 minutes isn't a lot, and there are a lot more songs that are unmappable due to the nature of the song (not the length), so not everything needs to be mappable :P
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
Don't call the mappers lazy
half of the modqueues say "will not mod longer than x minutes"
x often being 3 or 4

I don't get the idea of forcing mappers to add half assed diffs that nobody cares about to their maps, you gain NOTHING from doing this.
having a rule of requiring low diffs was good back a few years ago when there weren't a lot of maps and beginners needed something to start with, but today there's already a huge abundance of lowdiffs. we definitely don't /NEED/ more of them.

why can't a map simply be ranked based on being a good map. Give ONE reason why lowdiffs are needed

Right now all the ranking rules do is send maps like this into graveyard and prevent them from having any chance to get ranked.
Last edited by Aqo , edited 1 time in total.
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