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Practice - slower than half speed?

posted
Total Posts
42
FlameseeK
56 posts
Joined October 2009
Topic Starter
FlameseeK
I know this has been requested before and has been denied, but it kinda baffles me that there's no practice mod that allows you to slow beatmaps down to 50% / 25% of their original speed. I'm not sure if 25% would actually come in handy, but 50% hell yes! I'm very used to practicing things slowly first to build up a good foundation, because I had to do the same thing when I was learning how to play the guitar in order to play ridiculously fast licks properly. And slowing things down in practice worked like a charm.

So here's the thing - I've read suggestions like "edit the song" a few times though. Is there a practical way to create a new version of a beatmap to make it 50% slower?
silmarilen
5,582 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
1: wrong section
2: if you need to slow down a map by so much, its too hard and you should just play different maps
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo
I can slow down maps for you to any speed you want. Just ask.

(usually people ask for speedups. ahuehue)

Seriously tho you'll be better off just playing easier maps first...
Kanye West
2,222 posts
Joined July 2011
Kanye West

silmarilen wrote:

2: if you need to slow down a map by so much, its too hard and you should just play different maps
This.

Sort your beatmaps by BPM, play the slower ones first and work up your speed.
Purple
467 posts
Joined May 2011
Purple

FlameseeK wrote:

I know this has been requested before and has been denied, but it kinda baffles me that there's no practice mod that allows you to slow beatmaps down to 50% / 25% of their original speed. I'm not sure if 25% would actually come in handy, but 50% hell yes! I'm very used to practicing things slowly first to build up a good foundation, because I had to do the same thing when I was learning how to play the guitar in order to play ridiculously fast licks properly. And slowing things down in practice worked like a charm.

So here's the thing - I've read suggestions like "edit the song" a few times though. Is there a practical way to create a new version of a beatmap to make it 50% slower?
I'm not sure what you mean by slowing down

If its BPM, then use Half-Time. If its AR, then use Easy.

I too did learn the game by playing insanes on HT instead of [easy], but whatever.
Loves
446 posts
Joined December 2012
Loves
Maybe you should play some easier songs.

-thelewa
FlameseeK
56 posts
Joined October 2009
Topic Starter
FlameseeK
@ silmarilen
Sorry, I'm new to the webiste. Which section would be the right one? Hopefully a mod will move it if that's the case, though I'd rather not be a hassle to anyone.

Now, I do play easier maps for practice. But why should I play only easier ones? That makes no sense at all.

I'd rather be able to play the ones I please as long as it's not too hard to adjust the beatmap. In fact, there are several advantages to this. When I wanted to learn difficult guitar patterns, I would always practice them at a very slow speed to master them and avoid sloppiness. Even if doing the pattern at normal speed won't be feasible for a while, it's still very helpful to improve your technique.

I could play the guitar faster than like 95% of the people that I knew without being sloppy and as fast as nearly everyone else to say the least, so yeah I believe my practice approach should work just as well for osu. The only difference here is that a slower beatmap version is required.

@ aqo

I'd love to have a 50% version of The Big Black and Airman! I think they could be great practice maps. I can beat Airman on slow just fine, but doing the jumps more slowly could be helpful imo. As for The Big Black, some of those jumps are very difficult but I can see myself doing them at least on slow if I work on it.
winber1
4,519 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1

silmarilen wrote:

2: if you need to slow down a map by so much, its too hard and you should just play different maps
This doesn't really kinda answer the OP is asking for.

The problem is that peppy doesn't believe in adding "practice" tools to osu! I'm not exactly sure why he doesn't like the idea though.

But the ability to adjust the beatmaps tempo to your will is a immensely helpful tool.



On another note, playing easier songs also helps because playing a variety of songs in which you can get like at least 93%+ really helps to improve already learned skills or help you learn to snap better... and a lot of other random stuff I can think of.... Oh like accuracy too.

However once you get to high level play, you are kinda forced to just drill hard ass songs out sometimes to improve. Like honestly, nothing is improving my accuracy. like wut. I don't understand help please.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

FlameseeK wrote:

I'd love to have a 50% version of The Big Black and Airman! I think they could be great practice maps.
Nope, you're wrong, those are quite possibly the worst maps to practice on.

If you're serious about practicing efficiently, take a look at my profile. /runs
FlameseeK
56 posts
Joined October 2009
Topic Starter
FlameseeK

Aqo wrote:

Nope, you're wrong, those are quite possibly the worst maps to practice on.
Why do you say so? Airman is a great beatmap to practice jumps. I might even be able to pass it without any mods if I work on my muscle memory because my big issue is those jumps. My jumps are worse with a keyboard + mouse than mouse only. I was a mouse-only player a long time ago, but now I play with a keyboard and need to get used to doing jumps with it.

EDIT: On side a note, if I knew how to properly reduce the speed of these 2 songs, I would have already done so. This is probably the only thing that bugs me in Osu.

Btw, I think I've talked about beating stuff on slow a few times. Read - HT.
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

FlameseeK wrote:

Why do you say so? Airman is a great beatmap to practice jumps.
No, it's not, it's fucking shit to practice jumps.
Half of the map has very low-spaced movements that won't train your jump ability /at all/, the other half has very spaced jumps that will also not train you at all because they'll be far above your level to read and try to follow correctly, as well as having patterns that you simply won't be able to read and will only mash or get lost on.

Five plays on eighto will help your jump ability more than 1000 retries on airman, regardless of whatever speed you play the map on, HT or not.
FlameseeK
56 posts
Joined October 2009
Topic Starter
FlameseeK
My problem is not reading, my problem is execution. Maybe speed is a problem without mods, yeah, but I can pass Airman with 85% acc if I use HT, so yeah it's mostly accuracy - which I'm already working on - and jumps. Airman is definitely not above my level if I use HT, otherwise it only gets tricky because the original speed makes jumps very difficult. Having a slower version would help me get my accuracy up even if I don't get good enough to pass without half time. And no, I don't blindly mash through any parts of the song either, I took my time to figure out the patterns.

I guess this is turning into a pointless discussion, since all I wanted to do was figure out how to make a regular beatmap slower than HT without taking hours of trial and error in the first place. I don't mind playing easier maps and I don't absolutely *must have* slower versions of these maps, but it would be really helpful. So if anyone knows how to do so, please help me out.

And yeah, I wanna practice jumps, so beatmap suggestions are always welcome. But that still doesn't answer the main question, which is how to properly reduce the speed of a beatmap without messing things up... assuming it's possible.

EDIT

I don't want to be a jerk, so thanks to everyone who's trying to help me. I'm still looking for an answer though. :P

@ winber1
Yup, I know there is more to it than just practicing monster songs with HT or something. But I already play songs that are not too difficult and I've been working on my accuracy for a while. It's not like I only play songs that are way above my level as I did some time ago anymore. I'm sure you get it. ;)
Last edited by FlameseeK , edited 1 time in total.
Loves
446 posts
Joined December 2012
Loves

FlameseeK wrote:

My problem is not reading, my problem is execution. Maybe speed is a problem without mods, yeah, but I can pass Airman with 85% acc if I use HT, so yeah it's mostly accuracy - which I'm already working on - and jumps. Airman is definitely not above my level if I use HT, otherwise it only gets tricky because the original speed makes jumps very difficult. Having a slower version would help me get my accuracy up even if I don't get good enough to pass without half time. And no, I don't blindly mash through any parts of the song either, I took my time to figure out the patterns.

I guess this is turning into a pointless discussion, since all I wanted to do was figure out how to make a regular beatmap slower than HT without taking hours of trial and error in the first place. I don't mind playing easier maps and I don't absolutely *must have* slower versions of these maps, but it would be really helpful. So if anyone knows how to do so, please help me out.

And yeah, I wanna practice jumps, so beatmap suggestions are always welcome. But that still doesn't answer the main question, which is how to properly reduce the speed of a beatmap without messing things up... assuming it's possible.
How is your play count 10k and your level 56? I'm level 51 with only 3k playcount :S
FlameseeK
56 posts
Joined October 2009
Topic Starter
FlameseeK

Lily-Kun wrote:

How is your play count 10k and your level 56? I'm level 51 with only 3k playcount :S
Lol, that's because I would always play fairly challenging songs. I'm the Retry Guy. ^^

I've always played for a few weeks and then quit for a long. It's not like I'm a super regular player, otherwise I'd be MUCH better than I am as of now. And I never cared about my accuracy or rank much.

On a side note, I've always been more concerned with my skill level as an RTS player. So warcraft 3 was my priority a while ago, and at one point starcraft 2 will become my main priority. But for now, I'm playing osu a bit more.

EDIT

@ Aqo
Eighto looks pretty sweet for practice, thanks for the suggestion. Airman is still in my heart though. If nobody helps me, I'll keep practicing Airman with HT from time to time. That's just how I roll I guess.
Last edited by FlameseeK , edited 1 time in total.
Loves
446 posts
Joined December 2012
Loves
:cry:

FlameseeK wrote:

Lily-Kun wrote:

How is your play count 10k and your level 56? I'm level 51 with only 3k playcount :S
Lol, that's because I would always play fairly challenging songs. I'm the Retry Guy. ^^

I've always played for a few weeks and then quit for a long. It's not like I'm a super regular player, otherwise I'd be MUCH better than I am as of now. And I never cared about my accuracy or rank much.

On a side note, I've always been more concerned with my skill level as an RTS player. So warcraft 3 was my priority a while ago, and at one point starcraft 2 will become my main priority. But for now, I'm playing osu a bit more.
Lily-Kun suggests that you play hards and FC them instead of doing Big Black over 1500 times hehe~
FlameseeK
56 posts
Joined October 2009
Topic Starter
FlameseeK

Lily-Kun wrote:

Lily-Kun suggests that you play hards and FC them instead of doing Big Black over 1500 times hehe~
Done that quite a bit recently. It's good for my accuracy, for sure. I was hardly able to FC anything, but I'm getting better at it now, thanks to proper practice. But I can't just play very easy songs, I love challenging stuff! Which is why I want to know how to reduce the speed of songs to 50%, so they can be better practice than they currently are and still be a lot of fun. >.<
Last edited by FlameseeK , edited 1 time in total.
GoldenWolf
2,983 posts
Joined May 2012
GoldenWolf
Or try to find maps that are still challenging for you at normal speed ?
Loves
446 posts
Joined December 2012
Loves
Done that quite a bit recently. It's good for my accuracy, for sure. I was hardly able to FC anything, but I'm getting better at it now, thanks to proper practice. But I can't just play very easy songs, I love challenging stuff! Which is why I want to know how to reduce the speed of songs to 50%, so they can be better practice than they currently are and still be a lot of fun. >.<
Try playing hard on this map http://osu.ppy.sh/b/123873

Its Lily-Kuns favourites :3

I can fc it baka!
FlameseeK
56 posts
Joined October 2009
Topic Starter
FlameseeK

GoldenWolf wrote:

Or try to find maps that are still challenging for you at normal speed ?
Yeah, right. :roll:

Most of these "you should practice easier/normal/not-so-hard songs" thing is not very helpful, because I already do everything that is being suggested. And whether I do it or not, this won't change the fact that I want to play certain songs at a slower than HT speed. Playing playable songs won't make me not want to play/practice a more difficult one. Thanks though.

EDIT

@ lily-kun
Thanks for the suggestion! I have to say, I'm not good at FCing songs, but after FCing The Bad Touch on insane today in my first try, this doesn't look too hard at all. Maybe I can SS it. ^^
Last edited by FlameseeK , edited 1 time in total.
Zare
1,512 posts
Joined March 2012
Zare
take the audio file, open it in an audio program (Audacity for example can do that afaik), and then make the mp3 slower. drag it into osu, copy the hitcircles from the map, snap them to the new BPM, play the map.

I don't see how that would be useful or fun in any way though.
GoldenWolf
2,983 posts
Joined May 2012
GoldenWolf

FlameseeK wrote:

Yeah, right. :roll:

Most of these "you should practice easier/normal/not-so-hard songs" thing is not very helpful, because I already do everything that is being suggested. And whether I do it or not, this won't change the fact that I want to play certain songs at a slower than HT speed. Playing playable songs won't make me not want to play/practice a more difficult one. Thanks though.
By challenging I mean something you might struggle to pass at a normal speed, not something you can SS in a few tries.
Mythras
255 posts
Joined February 2010
Mythras
I never got better by FCing or SSing hards, i did get lots of pp from it. I improved playing those same maps on DT and hard rock, and playing more difficult insanes etc.

But if you wanna improve just play stuff that's really hard with no fail on. If it's too fast somehow even with half time then dont do it lol.

orz
Zare
1,512 posts
Joined March 2012
Zare

Unkind wrote:

But if you wanna improve just play stuff that's really hard with no fail on.
Pls no. No Fail is not a good mod for practice. You can use it for fun, but not when actually trying to improve.
Playing a map using No Fail will make you pay less attention to the parts that would make you fail nomod. You ignore these parts because you are allowed to, so you will actually get worse at these parts instead of better
Aqo
2,710 posts
Joined April 2010
Aqo

Zarerion wrote:

Pls no. No Fail is not a good mod for practice. You can use it for fun, but not when actually trying to improve.
This is the opposite of the truth.

When playing without nofail, you're worried about passing the map, which makes you mash on parts just to survive instead of playing correctly. When playing with nofail, you can just concentrate about trying to play everything correctly and then you're *really* learning and improving. Nofail is the best mod for practicing.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny
the audio.
FlameseeK
56 posts
Joined October 2009
Topic Starter
FlameseeK

Zarerion wrote:

take the audio file, open it in an audio program (Audacity for example can do that afaik), and then make the mp3 slower. drag it into osu, copy the hitcircles from the map, snap them to the new BPM, play the map.

I don't see how that would be useful or fun in any way though.
I thought about this, but I wasn't sure if there was an easier way. I'll try to copy the hitcircles, hopefully it will work just fine.


EDIT: Do I have to do anything specific to copy and paste hitcircles to another beatmap? Osu doesn't seem to work like windows in general in that it apparently forgets everything I copied.

EDIT 2: I've tried to copy most to the stuff from the notepad file, but the hitcircles are just as fast as in the original even though I set the bpm to 100 instead of 200. This is kind of confusing. T.T

EDIT 3: Actually, the hitcircles are as fast as the original version, but the sliders are totally off. I definitely need some help to get this right.
winber1
4,519 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1

Zarerion wrote:

Unkind wrote:

But if you wanna improve just play stuff that's really hard with no fail on.
Pls no. No Fail is not a good mod for practice. You can use it for fun, but not when actually trying to improve.
Playing a map using No Fail will make you pay less attention to the parts that would make you fail nomod. You ignore these parts because you are allowed to, so you will actually get worse at these parts instead of better
Depends on the circumstances. Nofail is still my best friend in terms of practicing.
DakeDekaane
osu! Alumni
3,500 posts
Joined February 2012
DakeDekaane

FlameseeK wrote:

Zarerion wrote:

take the audio file, open it in an audio program (Audacity for example can do that afaik), and then make the mp3 slower. drag it into osu, copy the hitcircles from the map, snap them to the new BPM, play the map.

I don't see how that would be useful or fun in any way though.
I thought about this, but I wasn't sure if there was an easier way. I'll try to copy the hitcircles, hopefully it will work just fine.


EDIT: Do I have to do anything specific to copy and paste hitcircles to another beatmap? Osu doesn't seem to work like windows in general in that it apparently forgets everything I copied.

EDIT 2: I've tried to copy most to the stuff from the notepad file, but the hitcircles are just as fast as in the original even though I set the bpm to 100 instead of 200. This is kind of confusing. T.T

EDIT 3: Actually, the hitcircles are as fast as the original version, but the sliders are totally off. I definitely need some help to get this right.
Put the circles in the correct place in the timeline and adjust the slider velocity in the timing section. As you changed the length of the song, you need to scale the objects in the time.
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF
I could probably whip up a quick java program to multiply the speed of a map automatically. I'm too lazy at the moment though \:D/
and also you'd need to edit the audio yourself to match.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

Zarerion wrote:

Unkind wrote:

But if you wanna improve just play stuff that's really hard with no fail on.
Pls no. No Fail is not a good mod for practice. You can use it for fun, but not when actually trying to improve.
Playing a map using No Fail will make you pay less attention to the parts that would make you fail nomod. You ignore these parts because you are allowed to, so you will actually get worse at these parts instead of better
no fail is not a good mod for practice, that's why many people that have that mod on tend to improve faster
Mythras
255 posts
Joined February 2010
Mythras

Zarerion wrote:

Unkind wrote:

But if you wanna improve just play stuff that's really hard with no fail on.
Pls no. No Fail is not a good mod for practice. You can use it for fun, but not when actually trying to improve.
Playing a map using No Fail will make you pay less attention to the parts that would make you fail nomod. You ignore these parts because you are allowed to, so you will actually get worse at these parts instead of better
You cant say nofail is a bad mod based on how you feel while using it. Not everybody is going to be the same. Not everybody will not care about difficult parts just because they dont die. etc

Sounds like you need practice with nofail to use it correctly.
Oinari-sama
osu! Alumni
3,403 posts
Joined July 2010
Oinari-sama
Looking at your profile you only had 15+11+17=43 maps for SS/S/A combined as of 16/01/2013. I think you may benefit from playing more maps of different variety than spamming just a few really hard maps.
FlameseeK
56 posts
Joined October 2009
Topic Starter
FlameseeK

Oinari-sama wrote:

Looking at your profile you only had 15+11+17=43 maps for SS/S/A combined as of 16/01/2013. I think you may benefit from playing more maps of different variety than spamming just a few really hard maps.
The vast majority of these SS are very recent. My overall accuracy 3-4 days ago was 82%, now it's 89% - thanks to my focus on accuracy. I do tend to play the same maps a lot, but I've been playing different maps now in order to improve my skill. At least half of these maps you mentioned were probably played this year.

You see, even though it may not seem to be the case, I'm one step ahead now that I'm trying to improve a bit more seriously (at least for the time being). ;)
Loves
446 posts
Joined December 2012
Loves

FlameseeK wrote:

Oinari-sama wrote:

Looking at your profile you only had 15+11+17=43 maps for SS/S/A combined as of 16/01/2013. I think you may benefit from playing more maps of different variety than spamming just a few really hard maps.
The vast majority of these SS are very recent. My overall accuracy 3-4 days ago was 82%, now it's 89% - thanks to my focus on accuracy. I do tend to play the same maps a lot, but I've been playing different maps now in order to improve my skill. At least half of these maps you mentioned were probably played this year.

You see, even though it may not seem to be the case, I'm one step ahead now that I'm trying to improve a bit more seriously (at least for the time being). ;)
Your play count is 11k and you only have around 60 maps ;_; played.

I think the best way to improve is to sight read and rush through all the hards you can find, and go back to them to try and improve.
Oinari-sama
osu! Alumni
3,403 posts
Joined July 2010
Oinari-sama

FlameseeK wrote:

Oinari-sama wrote:

Looking at your profile you only had 15+11+17=43 maps for SS/S/A combined as of 16/01/2013. I think you may benefit from playing more maps of different variety than spamming just a few really hard maps.
The vast majority of these SS are very recent. My overall accuracy 3-4 days ago was 82%, now it's 89% - thanks to my focus on accuracy. I do tend to play the same maps a lot, but I've been playing different maps now in order to improve my skill. At least half of these maps you mentioned were probably played this year.

You see, even though it may not seem to be the case, I'm one step ahead now that I'm trying to improve a bit more seriously (at least for the time being). ;)
It's good that you're trying to improve accuracy. I forgot who gave this advice: try to get 98-99% accuracy on all maps but don't bother spending hours just for getting SS. I personally like to pass all maps with at least 99% accuracy while spending a maximum of 10min per song for SS. I find that by focusing on accuracy rather than FC, I can play more calmly and slacks less. That forced me into reading better so it really pays off.

But you need to play more maps. Why not make your existing hard maps your "warm up" maps for each day, while downloading some Beatmap Packs and go through each songs inside? I find that a great way not just to practise all sorts of different styled maps, but also a routine to hunt for songs to add to favourites. ;)

Also multiplayer games are great places for picking up new songs too.
buny
3,435 posts
Joined March 2012
buny

Oinari-sama wrote:

Looking at your profile you only had 15+11+17=43 maps for SS/S/A combined as of 16/01/2013. I think you may benefit from playing more maps of different variety than spamming just a few really hard maps.
i have like a billion C/B ranks
Oinari-sama
osu! Alumni
3,403 posts
Joined July 2010
Oinari-sama

buny wrote:

Oinari-sama wrote:

Looking at your profile you only had 15+11+17=43 maps for SS/S/A combined as of 16/01/2013. I think you may benefit from playing more maps of different variety than spamming just a few really hard maps.
i have like a billion C/B ranks
lol...I'm obsessed in the opposite end of the spectrum...
FlameseeK
56 posts
Joined October 2009
Topic Starter
FlameseeK
Thanks for the tips guys, I know these are all good ideas. I do have few beatmaps, so even though I'm playing more songs now I need to download some packs to get a decent amount I guess.

MillhioreF wrote:

I could probably whip up a quick java program to multiply the speed of a map automatically. I'm too lazy at the moment though \:D/
and also you'd need to edit the audio yourself to match.
Well I already have an audio file that is 50% slower. But the hitcircles and sliders are a complete mess because they play at normal speed, and I don't know how to rearrange everything remapping the entire song - which I wouldn't dare do anyway. It would be nice if we could get this done without much of a hassle, so please tell me if you change your mind. :P
winber1
4,519 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
you're much better off just playing a variety of songs to practice different things. But this also mostly includes not playing like only j-pop songs...
MillhioreF
Pro Tester
5,004 posts
Joined July 2011
MillhioreF
It took a bit longer than expected, but I made the mentioned program. I put it in General Development because that's where all tool releases go, so just go to its thread for the download.
winber1
4,519 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
millhiore stronk
fabriciorby
2,211 posts
Joined December 2009
fabriciorby
BR helps BR
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