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[Post Reply:n=17291] An Advice from Criticisms about Modding

posted
Total Posts
33

How does you (as a modder) approach the mapper on telling things?

Light and polite, since I am not sure if the mapper would agree on it.
3
30.00%
Balanced, since I do not know what type of person am I dealing.
4
40.00%
Straightforward, so that the mapper can clearly get what is wrong.
3
30.00%
Harsh as fk. One should face comments whether the mapper likes it or not.
0
0.00%
Total votes: 10
Topic Starter
Aiseca
Note:
Since Posting my response in a Forum game thread (particilarly: Status Update) is not the best choice and probably a wall of text, I have decided to put it as a separate thread instead. If you have only the intent of being an idiot and replying in this thread non-sense, please go out and find a life. This issue I think is not just confined in mapping, it is somewhat psychological as well in nature and needs fruitful responses.
-------
So, I saw jxrhythmer2002's post about something relatable: Mapping dilemmas, particularly things a mapper would not want to hear. I do not have sufficient info on what those are but the way it was described, it seems too much to bear. I made a thread to have my say about it (and also, not ruining the Forum game to where I found it)

I might not be able to say all of things I would like to say here but hear this from me:

Don't come up with sudden rash decisions. If they said it needs remap, it doesn't mean that they attack you on a personal scale, It only does mean that your work can be improved. It can be made acceptable and be loved and admired by others along the way.

Read their comments.
Find the common problem they see in it.
Then look at your map at the editor or even testplay it personally or Auto. Multiple times if needed.
Then think what could be a solution to fix this.
Just repeat till satisfied,
then proceed finding someone to mod again to see if the problem still persists.
If still persists, ask someone to help up.

Hearing criticisms about your work is a part of modding; it cannot be separated. Most modders, especially starters, tend to be less harsh towards others when modding just to avoid arguments that really doesn't be brought up as a huge issue (in actuality).

Let me tell you, I've been remapping a single full length for three times now, and I still keep on going. I keep on getting comments of bad rhythm choices and other stuff. I've been requesting to queues daily (4-6 I think) and most of the time, they ignored my set.

And to tell you this: I somewhat felt a bit of rage on a queue when they rejected my set for NM just because of HS. I started to get angry because I thought I made HS of my mapset is fine. There's nothing wrong in my eyes. then I settled, then requests again...

A few days after two mods come by.....
Those persons I got from M4M dropped comments that made me do remapping for the 3rd time. It is very disappointing to hear them say, but what can I do?

I asked for mods.
I asked for other's comments about my set.
And (I should) be ready to be slapped with mods that I do not even want to see...

On these comments, to be honest at first, I don't even want to agree at any of them. Cause why not? I think my map is fine.

But as days go by and mapping stuff at the background and seeing other maps, I started to think that they do have a point. I was wrong. And I need to redo all of the things I have created for three weeks.

Yes, it is disappointing.
Yes, it sometimes makes you demotivated seeing negative comments.
But that's how modding rolls. I have to get used at it if I want to improve.

I mean, It's not that bad to hear honest comments that will totally ruin your vision of your map, but with these honest comments, it will also make you as a better mapper and modder: to understand the reasons why they brought up these kind of mods to your mapset. Modding cannot be all safe wording and sugar coating, doing it doesn't help the mapper or you either... It is just making things worse.

Don't take harsh comments or mods too seriously. Period. Just breathe, find a way to resolve it and take helpful mods as a lesson, not scolding.

Text pieces cannot physically kill you. It is just a fkin block of comment.
Also, don't think of it negatively too much, it is unnecessary to do so. Even if it's toxicity levels were too high, don't.
Just don't, please.

[End of Text]
Tateshina Eve
Hey that's me

So yeah the modder trashed basically my overall aesthetics and jump structure. I felt frustrated not because he was harsh, but because he was a friend and he wasn't being specific or even constructive.

Here's the map if you would like to see. https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/881522/#osu
Topic Starter
Aiseca

jxrhythmer2002 wrote:

Hey that's me

So yeah the modder trashed basically my overall aesthetics and jump structure. I felt frustrated not because he was harsh, but because he was a friend and he wasn't being specific or even constructive.

Here's the map if you would like to see. https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/881522/#osu


If the comment is too broad to exactly pinpoint the problem, then it is not helping.
If the modder cannot advise alternatives or come up with a better way to fix the problem, then it is not also helping.
AyeAries
o! std modding is scary
Topic Starter
Aiseca

- Aries - wrote:

o! std modding is scary

Just have to deal with it or leave it; one way or the other.
abraker
The heck happened to this thread's title?
cravenfiner

abraker wrote:

The heck happened to this thread's title?

i think this thread is replying to a thread of that id
abraker
Remember when thread responses to other threads was outlawed? I remember
johnmedina999
What the fuck is this shit
ColdTooth

- Aries - wrote:

o! std modding is scary
levesterz

ColdTooth wrote:

- Aries - wrote:

o! std modding is scary
Serraionga

o

is my favorite game
ColdTooth
cool serrai very i love it
johnmedina999

Serraionga wrote:

o

is my favorite game
FUCK
Topic Starter
Aiseca

Serraionga wrote:

o

is my favorite game

Loops?
Tateshina Eve
Man, my map's discussion page managed to become a warzone and I got silenced (twice) for being a fucking idiot. Just see it for yourself!

https://osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/881522/discussion/-/generalAll
abraker
this seriously did not need a post

this belongs here: https://old.ppy.sh/forum/t/548218
levesterz

Serraionga wrote:

o

is my favorite game
Owh
Topic Starter
Aiseca

abraker wrote:

this seriously did not need a post

this belongs here: https://old.ppy.sh/forum/t/548218



Like I said, this is a my response to a specific post, and not minding if it is becoming a 'drama' or something. I put this as a post rather than posting my response to drama thread because (for me) I cannot take this lightly.

I am responding to a post indirectly pointing towards about mapping (particularly mod comments in general), not the 'drama' that's in it.

If I can sense that this map discussion had gone more haywire, then I should have posted my response there obviously.

But oh well, I made this as a separate thread for a specific topic not really aiming to make the situation funny nor okay.

At least, I made my concern about it.
abraker
@Aiseca

My original comment actually had "thread" instead of "post". My tiny phone display did not allow me to notice this was page 2 of the thread which weird title I should have remembered, but for some reason thought it is a copy of your thread. So why am I saying that? I thought jxrhythmer2002 was OP, and I was in fact replaying to him. I changed it to "post" after realizing, but I did not anticipate for you to mistake the direction of my reply even after changing to "post". Which brings me to the actual point: the edit did not help.
semaphore
.
johnmedina999

semaphore wrote:

everyone in this subforum is too fucking retarded to figure out how to place a slider bro i don't think you should try that here, but i still voted
Except we have several people who have ranked several maps.
abraker
Nah he is onto something
Topic Starter
Aiseca
abraker is mania player, so where's the slider? There is LN anyway.
abraker
oh sliders...

blitzfrog, we gotta finish it
levesterz
Slider art is slider art
Ashton
A mod should get quick to the point. It should point out the problem, explain why it is a problem, and then it should provide possible solutions (and possibly why those solutions would work.)

Any further discussion is fine as long as it revolves around trying to improve a map.

That’s it. It’s best to not make modding this super complex thing only few people can understand.



Edit: as a follow up, if you are confused as to how someone should go about missing a map with fundamental issues, they should point out the fundamental issue a map is lacking (mapping not representative of the music, rhythm choices, etc..) and then point out numerous examples to support this accusation. Same thing with further discussion; as long as it’s productive further discussion to better understand each other’s point of view is fine.
Topic Starter
Aiseca

Ashton wrote:

A mod should get quick to the point. It should point out the problem, explain why it is a problem, and then it should provide possible solutions (and possibly why those solutions would work.)

Any further discussion is fine as long as it revolves around trying to improve a map.

That’s it. It’s best to not make modding this super complex thing only few people can understand.


Look at the discussion tab on JX's mapset.

There are many people who were there but most of them cannot even make a very decisive alternative. Some of which uses words I don't even know what he wants to mean (basically trying to be "good" modder)

I am aware that both the mapper and the modder who sparked the issue have faults at thier own places. What can't I even endure to see at it is that instead of the modders being cool headed from the mapper's reasoning, a few of the modders somewhat like went out of rails and raised the tension.

And what's more worse is that some insignificant people who doesn't really helping finding resolution and just want to troll posted stuff that doesn't really makes sense; they jut made the discussion log very messy.
Ashton

Aiseca wrote:

Ashton wrote:

A mod should get quick to the point. It should point out the problem, explain why it is a problem, and then it should provide possible solutions (and possibly why those solutions would work.)

Any further discussion is fine as long as it revolves around trying to improve a map.

That’s it. It’s best to not make modding this super complex thing only few people can understand.


Look at the discussion tab on JX's mapset.

There are many people who were there but most of them cannot even make a very decisive alternative. Some of which uses words I don't even know what he wants to mean (basically trying to be "good" modder)

I am aware that both the mapper and the modder who sparked the issue have faults at thier own places. What can't I even endure to see at it is that instead of the modders being cool headed from the mapper's reasoning, a few of the modders somewhat like went out of rails and raised the tension.

And what's more worse is that some insignificant people who doesn't really helping finding resolution and just want to troll posted stuff that doesn't really makes sense; they jut made the discussion log very messy.



That’s the problem with mapping discussions.....people what to turn a simple mapping discussion into a war that gets st each other’s throats


I recently talked to a bn who practically disregards everything they disagree with as being a roadblock instead of trying to actually see what the modder is trying to say.


My advice is to try to avoid maooong drama, and if it happens to your map try to keep it to a minimum.
ColdTooth

semaphore wrote:

everyone in this subforum is too fucking retarded to figure out how to place a slider bro i don't think you should try that here, but i still voted
Hello to you aswell.

Aiseca wrote:

abraker is mania player, so where's the slider? There is LN anyway.
Imagine holding your keys, this meme was made by th- oh forget it

--

If any kind of drama were to happen to my map, I'd try my best to keep it down to a notch, and if not many like x, then the best option is to simply apologize and rework the solution/pattern. You can't just say 'it's my style' when you want to reply to a mod. Taking consideration in every bit kind of helps. Your style is your style, yes, but the one important aspect is input. Is this one simple change to make it feel smoother going to ruin your style?

See, I would make a witty comment about modding at this point, but that's my fault for not really knowing how the new system functions. I only did one hard gd to a friend recently and it got qualified, and today ranked. I also didn't touch the editor for a solid year, so I had no good 'style' that everyone knew. I took inspiration from my old maps, yes I know, sad, and implemented them. I took most of the suggestions from the discussion on my difficulty, and it still looked fairly similar to how I map.

I liked the old mapping discussions, because it wasn't threatening or difficult to use via other people pushing dumb ideas, or complex design. It's not that I'm unmotivated to do most of this stuff in hopes of achieving a simple goal, but when the community acts like this, it can be quite daunting. That being said, it's either I get used to it or I just don't map at all. But I seem to understand it, and decided to take a new 'style'. The style of "how about I just map however it feels via audio and I just adjust accordingly via people's suggestions". That way noone can bash at me for having a shit styl- ah right I forgot I ranked surprise buttsecks, that shows how immature I am.
abraker
The desire to reach peak quality in modding has gotten so out of hand that modders are now decreasing quality by doing so. It's like that document ppy made available for public editing some couple years ago that described the new (now old) QAT rules or something. The document underwent tens of changes under a week and had to be ended because there would be no end to it. No version was correct, and no version was wrong either. Yet all had their opinions on how the document should be worded.

Mapping should either stay away from perfection or have a cut-off for alterations because for a mapper to step their foot down to end modding most of the time is not a healthy way to go about it. Maps should be good enough such that the actual players are happy playing the map, not the modders who nitpick individual notes, patterns, their relation to the song, expression based on their own vision, and other subjective preferences and technicalities which a normal player wouldn't normally notice. Modding used to be suggestive, not a projective authority of do or no rank.
Serraionga

semaphore wrote:

levesterz

Serraionga wrote:

semaphore wrote:

qt comic strip
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