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Question about the benefits of HR

posted
Total Posts
51
FlyingKebab
339 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
FlyingKebab
I am interested to find out what benefits HR if a person plays a lot of it. I once searched about HD on the same topic and some people said that it improves rhythmic skills and accuracy. So i slapped on NF with HD and got about 400~ plays in with the mod and noticed my acc which was utterly terrible at an average of 80% skyrocketed to over 90% in just those 400 plays i invested into the mod. I am wondering how HR would benefit me in the long run. I am sure that AR10 would be completely irrelevant if i got 1K plays with this mod since i don't have the problem that most people have while playing songs that are too hard: lack of cursor speed and understanding of what the hell is going on.

I checked around some threads and came to an understanding that HR helps aim the most since the CS is decreased. It also technically improves reaction time.

TL;DR: Is this mod worth investing plays into, will the work i would put into it pay off in any way?

EDIT: HR score bonus is completely irrelevant because i only play this game to have fun and improve. Yes playing this that are light years out of my league is fun for me. I never tried to farm PP as I only have like 2? FC's in my top rank plays. Im sure if i tried it I would grind 20K in under a week or two anyways.
Last edited by FlyingKebab , edited 1 time in total.
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
Don't worry about HR for a while, learn AR10 once you're a better player, and are good at AR 8 and 9.
FlyingKebab
339 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
FlyingKebab

B1rd wrote:

Don't worry about HR for a while, learn AR10 once you're a better player, and are good at AR 8 and 9.
I don't really care about AR10 because it is not different from AR9 to me. I believe in fast improvement because most of the things i tried that people say don't work or shouldn't work all worked for me and i improved at quite speedy rates.

EDIT: Maybe i just learn easily I don't know. That is why I am asking for non common advice.
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd
Show me all your AR10 FCs and I'll believe you.
FlyingKebab
339 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
FlyingKebab
I don't go for FC's on songs. I only try a song a maximum of 4 times a day and if a FC happens then it does.

EDIT: I will just try the mod for some time myself and then I will post the results myself and whether it really helped me in anyway. Tbh what people say is almost irrelevant since most of you will make me stray from this anyways.

I should just lock myself from any song that is below OD10 and edit everything to OD10 i wont ever have a problem with anything ever agian.
f i z i k
154 posts
Joined January 2013
f i z i k
general thought: it's rarely too early to learn any mod.
now coming from someone who plays mainly hdhr: don't bother yet. I have been like you,when I had that playcount I played tons of AR10 (thinking I can read it) which on the one hand gave me good snapping but on the other turned me into a button masher somewhat. hr is essentially useless without hd,so I will just refer to HDHR for now - the best time in my opinion is when you FC Insanes with decent accuracy (we're talking 98,5+). Learning AR10 and playing it with HR is a lot more difficult than regular CS4 maps on AR10,and it also will take a hit on your reading on lower ARs since you haven't mastered them. Of course you can go and play it now,but my guess is that it will hurt you more than it will do you good for now. I personally started after I had been able to FC Insanes decently and accurately (the change from OD8 to OD10 is IMMENSE).

Now to your original question: Benefits?
Stable aim,great accuracy - you can't mash through streams on OD10 anymore - and also a good reaction time obviously since you are learning to read AR10.
FlyingKebab
339 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
FlyingKebab
Why do you say that HR is useless without HD? I know that HD makes less of a mess on screen and i rarely ever see a top 50 score with only HR. But some maps that have a lot of stacks and tricky stacked patterns would be very hard to do with HDHR and being able to HR it is certainly better than going plain out no mod. I have problems with accuracy but i do know how to obtain a high acc. By now I just delay my first beat click to get accurate hits but on faster songs where i can't just chill and click it's hard for that delay to kick in because everything is in such a rush (5star+ songs). And i still have consistency problems with random misses and etc. Since i changed my mouse when i started playing osu and i rushed my skill level in 30 days (was abroad for 2 weeks). I am at a point that i believe that up to 6.xx star maps i could easily improve with playing more but when those special maps and unranked maps kick in then I think i will have to take a different approach in the future.

I have these moments when i wrote random **** like the upper post, don't mind those lines. Meh... Eureka Seven let me get some steam off \:D/.
f i z i k
154 posts
Joined January 2013
f i z i k
just in terms of pp and HD rarely makes a difference on hr once you learn it
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko
i usually just take maps like gold dust shotgun senorita etc and change them to ar9.6 cs5 to simulate a sort of mini hard rock.. doesnt really help my acc but it does help my aim which is what im more interested in improving atm.

if you want better acc you could just increase OD

really theres no reason to play hard rock at your level yet, it's too... hard
AmaiHachimitsu
1,639 posts
Joined May 2011
AmaiHachimitsu

B1rd wrote:

Show me all your AR10 FCs and I'll believe you.

Caring about AR only is the worst thing a player can do.


People who are obsessed about playing AR 10 or higher simply have no future in this game. Call me back when you reach top 100, I'll apologize. Well, there is still time to think about things which are important in this game.



HR is probably the most beneficial mod out there, It increases your aim, accuracy and higher AR reading (which is not a priority, faggots). It may be painful for your acc percentage at the start, but HR is totally worth training. Your aim will be more consistent (and you will be able to pinpoint best mouse/area settings) and so will happen to your future tries (you tense up during playing HR so you will get used to this feeling).

But as someone else already said, it's a bit too early. For now focus on improving till you manage to play Insanes.
winber1
4,519 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1

AmaiHachimitsu wrote:

Caring about AR only is the worst thing a player can do.
playing this game is the worst thing a human being can do

huehuehue
nrl
1,402 posts
Joined October 2011
nrl

AmaiHachimitsu wrote:

(which is not a priority, faggots)
Merely a prerequisite. The distinction is very important.

Not

FlyingKebab wrote:

fun and improve. Yes playing this that are light years out of my league is fun for me.
Sounds like you've chosen fun over improve.
FlyingKebab
339 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
FlyingKebab
Maybe i overstated the light years thing but those maps at this time are maps that i manage anywhere from 65% to 80%~ acc, which would be anything from 4.9 to about 6.1 stars. You can't say that they didn't help me because from playing them i learned fast cursor speed and a ton of patterns which i can read now. Sometimes i even surprise myself how i don't miss certain parts even though i don't understand them fully at the moment i hit them.
Bauxe
1,624 posts
Joined August 2012
Bauxe

FlyingKebab wrote:

Maybe i overstated the light years thing but those maps at this time are maps that i manage anywhere from 65% to 80%~ acc, which would be anything from 4.9 to about 6.1 stars. You can't say that they didn't help me because from playing them i learned fast cursor speed and a ton of patterns which i can read now. Sometimes i even surprise myself how i don't miss certain parts even though i don't understand them fully at the moment i hit them.
65-80%?

Sounds like you're spamming to me!
Woobowiz
412 posts
Joined March 2014
Woobowiz

Bauxe wrote:

Sounds like you're spamming to me!
Ya, 100% sounds like spamming. Accuracy range shouldn't be as wide as 65 to 80%.
And the difference between 4.9 and 6.1 stars is HUGE, so it's definitely considered spamming (also the fact that you shouldn't even be able to pass 6 star maps in the first place).

Also I don't know how you expect to improve without having emphasis on FC's. A lot of people can pass 5+ star maps, but it's only the the good players that can FC them with a good enough accuracy.

Just passing a map as an indicator of improve should only happen if you've either 1. Never passed it before, or 2. Can pass it plenty of times without failing between attempts. Lucking out an passing a map ONCE, doesn't mean anything, it just means you spammed through the map.
sayonara_sekai
376 posts
Joined November 2010
sayonara_sekai

FlyingKebab wrote:

EDIT: HR score bonus is completely irrelevant because i only play this game to have fun and improve. Yes playing this that are light years out of my league is fun for me. I never tried to farm PP as I only have like 2? FC's in my top rank plays. Im sure if i tried it I would grind 20K in under a week or two anyways.
you dont get 200 ranks for 3x miss plays with 90% acc once you get to a higher rank. if i get a single miss in a 4 star i gain 1 rank MAX, usually zero.
FlyingKebab
339 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
FlyingKebab
I never said that I survive the hard maps I mentioned, those scores are with NF on, I have a set of about 40 or so maps that I started playing very early on, most of those maps are still too fast for me and the accuracy stems from at least 10 misses and a dozen 50's. These maps were and are the building block of my speed and aim I have achieved to this day. I never spam maps , those accuracy scores are from hits that don't happen from mashing but from trying to aim and hit accurately, as I mentioned, those maps are still a tad too fast for me. However, a couple I have already passed with B ranks.

I am fully aware that missing on a map is just killing pp but I don't really mind, I am not a pp whore and when I become good enough to breeze through 4 star maps with S ranks then the pp will come by itself.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko

phonics wrote:

FlyingKebab wrote:

EDIT: HR score bonus is completely irrelevant because i only play this game to have fun and improve. Yes playing this that are light years out of my league is fun for me. I never tried to farm PP as I only have like 2? FC's in my top rank plays. Im sure if i tried it I would grind 20K in under a week or two anyways.
you dont get 200 ranks for 3x miss plays with 90% acc once you get to a higher rank. if i get a single miss in a 4 star i gain 1 rank MAX, usually zero.
https://osu.ppy.sh/u/Martell

this guys top rank
FlyingKebab
339 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
FlyingKebab
DT is just so broken... my god.

EDIT: I have only 4,5K playcount, I shouldn't really expect to clear 4 star maps without a few misses with half the playcount of when some people even start to clear them. I just need to play more < 3.
GoldenWolf
2,983 posts
Joined May 2012
GoldenWolf

FlyingKebab wrote:

DT is just so broken... my god.
No, it's not.

FlyingKebab wrote:

EDIT: I have only 4,5K playcount, I shouldn't really expect to clear 4 star maps without a few misses with half the playcount of when some people even start to clear them. I just need to play more < 3.
again playcount doesn't mean everything (if anything)
FlyingKebab
339 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
FlyingKebab

GoldenWolf wrote:

FlyingKebab wrote:

DT is just so broken... my god.
No, it's not.

FlyingKebab wrote:

EDIT: I have only 4,5K playcount, I shouldn't really expect to clear 4 star maps without a few misses with half the playcount of when some people even start to clear them. I just need to play more < 3.
again playcount doesn't mean everything (if anything)
Isn't playcount a direct "meter" to how experienced a said player is?
silmarilen
5,582 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
https://osu.ppy.sh/u/Yoshi_green

you can have the most playcount out of everybody, but if you dont put then in the right maps you're never gonna be the best
lolcubes
osu! Alumni
4,437 posts
Joined November 2010
lolcubes
A person can have 15000 playcount playing easies and normals. That doesn't really make him able to clear any Hards or Insanes.
On the other hand, a person can have 15000 playcount only playing crazy stuff. If he is smart and has learned some consistency along with the basics, he will start appearing in top 50 on easier maps with some effort.
Or you can just play for fun and everything else comes along with it.
ivan
313 posts
Joined November 2013
ivan
x
Last edited by ivan , edited 1 time in total.
Shiro
Global Moderator
4,984 posts
Joined May 2009
Shiro
I'd argue that HR is useless if your goal is to improve. Just play DT.
I am a (completely unknown) heavy HR player, and I am ridiculously bad and limited. I played DT for a few months and improved a lot more than I did when I was playing HR.
FlyingKebab
339 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
FlyingKebab
DT seems a lot easier for me than HR. Since DT is a mostly about speed which i don't lack much of. HR is a hell not because of CS or AR but because of OD10 which i can't play in any way. When i play DT (which i almost never do) i can forget the mental delay for a hit which i have to use to get good accuracy on most maps.

EDIT: DT is still out my league and since I am not attracted to DT i don't know if I will pick it up any time soon.
FlyingKebab
339 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
FlyingKebab
My unstable rate decreased by atleast 80 from yesterday rofl. Now songs with 95-98% acc started to happen O.o.

Not sure if HR or just the delay thing sinking in.
loldcraft
106 posts
Joined June 2012
loldcraft
HR is like: here's the next difficulty up, just minus the "more notes" part
use it to practice for the next level up while being on a familiar map without overwhelming amount of notes. Other than that, I see no point of it.
FlyingKebab
339 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
FlyingKebab
Krewella - Alive [Insane] +DT (86.92%)
less than a minute ago
51pp
weighted 49% (25pp)

An abysmal run with only 87% acc and 248x combo out of 526x with DT gave me 182 Ranks. DT is broken.

EDIT:
senya - Yozakura ni Kimi o Kakushite [Lunatic] +DT (81.49%)
less than a minute ago
72pp
weighted 100% (72pp)

This is just plain ridiculous rofl... 81% is worth 72PP? are you kidding me?
GoldenWolf
2,983 posts
Joined May 2012
GoldenWolf
DT is not broken, it has no weighting to it, no bonus attached to it. IF there is anything to blame, it would be the algorithm used to calculate the map's difficulty and how much it's worth.

The map you got 72pp from is fairly jumpy for your level, it's also rated around 4.9 stars with DT, and you got no misses on it. So while you got no accuracy from it, the aim value was fairly high because no misses. Don't be so surprised.
FlyingKebab
339 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
FlyingKebab
Somehow i don't have the slightest urge to go on a DT'ing spree. But i will keep this mod in mind because the difference in speed for me on jump maps is almost null because i still try to hold myself back to hit accurately without DT.
Varetyr
794 posts
Joined December 2011
Varetyr

Riince wrote:

phonics wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/u/Martell

this guys top rank
pfft, weakling
https://osu.ppy.sh/u/3666816#_leader
GoldenWolf
2,983 posts
Joined May 2012
GoldenWolf

Varetyr wrote:

pfft, weakling
https://osu.ppy.sh/u/3666816#_leader
Please.
FlyingKebab
339 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
FlyingKebab

GoldenWolf wrote:

Varetyr wrote:

pfft, weakling
https://osu.ppy.sh/u/3666816#_leader
Please.
What.. I don't even... Jesus... ( \:D/ ).
Rokusho
76 posts
Joined November 2011
Rokusho
Do they even try to get accuracy? xD
That also reminds me of this guy https://osu.ppy.sh/u/1393642
I guess keyboard mashing is also a good way to get pp
FlyingKebab
339 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
FlyingKebab
Face it, a mod that allows you to facerolll and still get more PP than a no mod SS run is broken.

EDIT: It seems my threads like to derail into other interesting topics.
GoldenWolf
2,983 posts
Joined May 2012
GoldenWolf

FlyingKebab wrote:

Face it, a mod that allows you to facerolll and still get more PP than a no mod SS run is broken.
jeezus will you ever learn

Oh hey look a no miss run DT on this hard map is worth more than a SS on this piss easy one! Must be broken!
FlyingKebab
339 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
FlyingKebab

GoldenWolf wrote:

FlyingKebab wrote:

Face it, a mod that allows you to facerolll and still get more PP than a no mod SS run is broken.
jeezus will you ever learn
Give up, resistance is futile, I am not saying the mod is bad but the aim calc is really off.
GoldenWolf
2,983 posts
Joined May 2012
GoldenWolf
large/repetitive jumps tends to be overrated yes, but they aren't "really" off, apart from a few maps that abuse them it's fairly balanced
FlyingKebab
339 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
FlyingKebab
Well now I know the way to skyrocket in rank if I get the urge to D: . Guess I will invest some time in learning DT.
silmarilen
5,582 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen
accuracy is only 1/3 of the maps stats that are weighed.
if a map is difficult, no matter how abysmal your accuracy is, you will still get pp because of the aim/speed values of the map
in the end, you still want decent accuracy tho, because that can be the difference between 200pp and 300pp (not even joking, look at goldenwolf's ranked map)
Dammie
23 posts
Joined April 2014
Dammie

Woobowiz wrote:

Bauxe wrote:

Just passing a map as an indicator of improve should only happen if you've either 1. Never passed it before, or 2. Can pass it plenty of times without failing between attempts. Lucking out an passing a map ONCE, doesn't mean anything, it just means you spammed through the map.
Wait, when has been ''luck'' a reliable factor on a rythm game?

''Also I don't know how you expect to improve without having emphasis on FC's''
You sound like all that people FL/HR/HD/DT'ing easy songs. If he want to improve ofc he should play songs over his limits and not only stuck trying to FC one song.
FlyingKebab
339 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
FlyingKebab
TL;DR of what HR gave me in 1/2 days: The most change i saw of playing HR is in accuracy, the mod made be judge the hit delays better and yesterday i racked the first 4 S ranks i got from the time i started playing 3 star maps (and these were on 4-4.4 star maps).

Tested out HDDT and HDHR and i gotta say that i was quite surprised that i can hit over 90% of the things on maps with HDHR on but only with 75% which i will have to work out later on.
Vuelo Eluko
5,484 posts
Joined October 2013
Vuelo Eluko

GoldenWolf wrote:

Varetyr wrote:

pfft, weakling
https://osu.ppy.sh/u/3666816#_leader
Please.
1 miss;doesn't count
iWhorse
299 posts
Joined December 2012
iWhorse

Shiro wrote:

I'd argue that HR is useless if your goal is to improve. Just play DT.
I am a (completely unknown) heavy HR player, and I am ridiculously bad and limited. I played DT for a few months and improved a lot more than I did when I was playing HR.



GoldenWolf wrote:

DT is not broken, it has no weighting to it, no bonus attached to it. IF there is anything to blame, it would be the algorithm used to calculate the map's difficulty and how much it's worth.

The map you got 72pp from is fairly jumpy for your level, it's also rated around 4.9 stars with DT, and you got no misses on it. So while you got no accuracy from it, the aim value was fairly high because no misses. Don't be so surprised.

its not that it's broken, it's that the weighting on acc makes HR scores way harder to get than DT for medium-level players, have to get like 98% od10 to get anything

I guess my top score contradicts that though
FlyingKebab
339 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
FlyingKebab
I have never seen a score with HRDT on anything that wasn't a normal or of similar level. OD10 on DT is just ridiculous. I noticed that my single tap speed falls short in AR8 DT maps most of the time and I will have to work on that, although the speed of DT itself isn't terrible compared to some other maps. I haven't put on HR as a single mod at all since that day, it's always either HD/HDHR/DT ir HDDT but never HR.
B1rd
2,974 posts
Joined December 2013
B1rd

AmaiHachimitsu wrote:

B1rd wrote:

Show me all your AR10 FCs and I'll believe you.

Caring about AR only is the worst thing a player can do.


People who are obsessed about playing AR 10 or higher simply have no future in this game. Call me back when you reach top 100, I'll apologize. Well, there is still time to think about things which are important in this game.
I don't know what you think I was implying, but I was just doubting that OP could read ar10 like he was claiming.
FlyingKebab
339 posts
Joined July 2014
Topic Starter
FlyingKebab

B1rd wrote:

I don't know what you think I was implying, but I was just doubting that OP could read ar10 like he was claiming.
I actually said that it wouldn't be a problem if I put over 1K plays in the mod because i adapt quite quickly. As I stand now I am only able to react in time for AR10 but not read it.

EDIT: This is just ridiculous, my fingers are majorly out of sync with my aim, every time I watch a replay i see my cursor hitting the center of retarded hard jumps but I somehow don't tap the properly >.<. Guess this is the next problem that will boost me significantly when i solve it.

It seems that I am hitting the jumps WAY to early probably out of fear (even with NF) of missing them. I guess this is one of those bad habits that has come to bite me, I was always afraid of dropping a combo and now I'm just subconsciously hitting things like this too early >.<.

EDIT: Jump training Final Boss map AR9 68% AR10 81% go figure, it's actually true -__-".
Last edited by FlyingKebab , edited 1 time in total.
silmarilen
5,582 posts
Joined February 2010
silmarilen

FlyingKebab wrote:

I have never seen a score with HRDT on anything that wasn't a normal or of similar level. OD10 on DT is just ridiculous. I noticed that my single tap speed falls short in AR8 DT maps most of the time and I will have to work on that, although the speed of DT itself isn't terrible compared to some other maps. I haven't put on HR as a single mod at all since that day, it's always either HD/HDHR/DT ir HDDT but never HR.
https://osu.ppy.sh/u/Emperorpenguin83#_leader
there are plenty of 3-4 star maps being played with hrdt out there by other people aswell
sayonara_sekai
376 posts
Joined November 2010
sayonara_sekai
wow its almost as if its easier to react to a higher AR. who woulda guessed. Try that with AR8 and you'll probably get 10%.
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