it is super hard to make a nice looking and FITTING nose for a character like pippi. it would be nice if anyone could paste in an example of a 3D characters nose because a nose like this
would not fit her
would not fit her
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The current nose isn't realistic but it looks perfect in cel-shading so it is fine
At certain angles, yes. At others, it's a bit jarring. One minute flaw can completely throw off an otherwise gorgeous work of art.
iNiS's models do the same thing (their noses have bases, as oppose to being straight lines).
iNiS's models do the same thing (their noses have bases, as oppose to being straight lines).
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Now that's much better!Good work,Loginer~
(*coughfullbodypiccerplz?cough*)
(*coughfullbodypiccerplz?cough*)
Random thought:
Is it possible to convert that model into a Miku Miku Dance model?
Is it possible to convert that model into a Miku Miku Dance model?
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I'm not as familiar with the .x file format, however I do believe there could be some problems with a "universal" system.
for instance, if a rotational value is off in the base pose, the arm might bend the wrong way. Easy fix, but still can be annoying.
Or, If a dancer requires more bones than the animation set has, for instance, if you want a ponytail or an accessory to move with the dancer, you'd have to have it use the animation set in the dancer's model file for those bones. Then you get into the issue of telling Osu! which bones to do that for, and then you have to animate those bones with the dance animations. But wait, then you'd have another problem. to animate those bones decently, you'd need to have the animations on hand so that you can do it.
If you try to solve that problem with things like a "dynamic movement" or whatever system, you get the problem of needing to set limits so that they can't go the wrong way, and/or do some collision checking to make sure that those items don't go where they're not supposed to.
If you don't allow for more than the standard bones, then you'll get characters with long hair/other things that doesn't animate nicely, and then it just looks cheap.
Besides that, I'd say that if all the dancers did the exact same dance, then it would be kinda boring because you wouldn't get to see a different take on the style/dance. Yeah, it means a lot more work in the long run for the people who have to make the dancers, but I'm pretty sure peppy has a lot better things to do than try to find a way to make a universal system that allows for as much flexibility as people would want.
I would just be happy with a set of 3dsmax files that had a biped doing the dances and stuff, and then I could just work off of those to get an idea of the style and timing, and also variate it according to the character.
for instance, if a rotational value is off in the base pose, the arm might bend the wrong way. Easy fix, but still can be annoying.
Or, If a dancer requires more bones than the animation set has, for instance, if you want a ponytail or an accessory to move with the dancer, you'd have to have it use the animation set in the dancer's model file for those bones. Then you get into the issue of telling Osu! which bones to do that for, and then you have to animate those bones with the dance animations. But wait, then you'd have another problem. to animate those bones decently, you'd need to have the animations on hand so that you can do it.
If you try to solve that problem with things like a "dynamic movement" or whatever system, you get the problem of needing to set limits so that they can't go the wrong way, and/or do some collision checking to make sure that those items don't go where they're not supposed to.
If you don't allow for more than the standard bones, then you'll get characters with long hair/other things that doesn't animate nicely, and then it just looks cheap.
Besides that, I'd say that if all the dancers did the exact same dance, then it would be kinda boring because you wouldn't get to see a different take on the style/dance. Yeah, it means a lot more work in the long run for the people who have to make the dancers, but I'm pretty sure peppy has a lot better things to do than try to find a way to make a universal system that allows for as much flexibility as people would want.
I would just be happy with a set of 3dsmax files that had a biped doing the dances and stuff, and then I could just work off of those to get an idea of the style and timing, and also variate it according to the character.
Topic Starter
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The arms are too thick in the center part. Also, I would've said they seem slightly too long, but I guess not if you say so. The legs and body seem fine to me.
Also, is it possible to ask for slightly larger breasts without being called a pervert?
(My girlfriend started laughing when I wrote this and told me that she agrees, after calling me "her cute little pervert".
)
Also, is it possible to ask for slightly larger breasts without being called a pervert?
(My girlfriend started laughing when I wrote this and told me that she agrees, after calling me "her cute little pervert".
)
Topic Starter
Improved the neck, rounded the elbows out, fixed the leaning, lowered the arms by 40 degrees and made the breasts slightly larger.
Not really, although the area between the elbow and the upper arm might be a little thick.Gemi wrote:
The arms are too thick in the center part.
The ass is too flat and might be an inch or two too high (not sure on this, though)
Topic Starter
Made some bigger changes to the breasts this time, improved the shoulders/neck, increased the length of the fingers and made the butt less flat.
Shape of the arms is looking nicer, but the hips/waist are/is definitely too high up.
/steal Al's concept art for example:
Topic Starter
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Topic Starter
Ta-da.
The cel-shading looks weird as all hell on the bellybutton and the skin could do with a bit of touching up, but otherwise - a damn fine job, Loginer. A damn fine job indeed. The tip of the skull has too small a polycount by the looks of things - you can see a clear edge at the utmost top.
Love
Awesome~
*w*
Sweet! x3
Sweet! x3
Topic Starter
Added a few edges. As for the very top, it's supposed to have a sharp angle. Not sure what you mean by touching up the skin, but don't worry about the belly button.Ephemeral wrote:
The cel-shading looks weird as all hell on the bellybutton and the skin could do with a bit of touching up, but otherwise - a damn fine job, Loginer. A damn fine job indeed. The tip of the skull has too small a polycount by the looks of things - you can see a clear edge at the utmost top.
As soon as I've rigged and animated her, which I'll get on with once I'm sure the model is good enough. I don't want to spend 2 hours tweaking the limbs and then come back here to find someone ranting about the shape of her thumb.soradg123 wrote:
Beautiful! So when do we see her in-game?
I'm thinking more along the lines of adding more detail since the skin is quite plain - if nothing else, you could posterize the clothing section of the skin to enhance the cartoony feel the cel-shaders give it. Is it possible for you to give us a pose of the model in various lighting scenarios? I have a feeling it may be just the lack of such a scenario which is invoking the ire of my OCD regarding the skin.Loginer wrote:
Added a few edges. As for the very top, it's supposed to have a sharp angle. Not sure what you mean by touching up the skin, but don't worry about the belly button.
Oh boy that will be a quick and pleasant adventure now won't it?Loginer wrote:
As soon as I've rigged and animated her
Glad to see the model turned out so well (eventually). I'm just expecting the animation to take another long while to feel "just right" though.
very nice work. this will be awesome when its done :9
Topic Starter
Just found a tool that pretty much automates the skinning process. A crack was made a few hours ago, so things will happen ITT as soon as I get my hands on it.
By skinning, do you mean the UV mapping process or the skinning of the mesh to the bones?Loginer wrote:
Just found a tool that pretty much automates the skinning process. A crack was made a few hours ago, so things will happen ITT as soon as I get my hands on it.
If you're talking about UVs, the tool that you're talking about wouldn't happen to be Unwrella would it? that tool is a god send.
Topic Starter
Nope, I'm talking about BonesPro. It turned out to crash Max every time it autosaved though, so in the end I was forced to use Skin. Oh well.NCDyson wrote:
By skinning, do you mean the UV mapping process or the skinning of the mesh to the bones?Loginer wrote:
Just found a tool that pretty much automates the skinning process. A crack was made a few hours ago, so things will happen ITT as soon as I get my hands on it.
If you're talking about UVs, the tool that you're talking about wouldn't happen to be Unwrella would it? that tool is a god send.
So, dance moves. Any ideas?
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You forgot the sprinkler.
Edit: LEEEEEEEET'S DOOOOOO THEEE TIIIIME WAAAARP AGAAAAAAAIN
Edit: LEEEEEEEET'S DOOOOOO THEEE TIIIIME WAAAARP AGAAAAAAAIN
Anything from EBA
Maybe even a custom dance for DSMN
Maybe even a custom dance for DSMN
PELVIC THRUST
Soulja boy pls
Oh you.Rolled wrote:
Soulja boy pls
Also, the basic ouendan cheer would be nice as well.
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Uh, i was referring to the male squad cheer. Something like this?soradg123 wrote:
In that case, we should also implement accessory add-ons such as pompoms.RemmyX25 wrote:
Also, the basic ouendan cheer would be nice as well.
Pippi doing male cheers? In that case, CHRGCHR000 (Ouendan 2 Red Male); yes, I post most of my work in the ctrl+v dump.RemmyX25 wrote:
Uh, i was referring to the male squad cheer. Something like this?
Also, HARUHI!!!
yes, I think some Ouendan or EBA moves would be appropriate.soradg123 wrote:
Pippi doing male cheers? In that case, CHRGCHR000 (Ouendan 2 Red Male); yes, I post most of my work in the ctrl+v dump.RemmyX25 wrote:
Uh, i was referring to the male squad cheer. Something like this?
Also, HARUHI!!!
Also, I can't see haruhi doing her Ouendan thing without thinking of Mikuru cheering.
Topic Starter
I've looked up some cheerleading moves, and I'm already done with the idle, miss and fail animations. I was planning on finishing most of the moves sometime this week, but I don't think I'll have enough free time, so here's a picture of Pippi after a delicious trip to McDonalds.
Also, I think I know how to add more definition to the skin now.
Also, I think I know how to add more definition to the skin now.
Topic Starter
I've finally decided to completely replace the UV map/texture I made 6 months ago, and added a lot of details in the process. Most of the changes are subtle, but I feel they add a lot to the bigger picture. Also, this lets me use a few tricks to make her look better in-game. I've also made some more progress with the animations.
Assuming I don't run into any unforeseen problems, I expect to finish the whole thing before Christmas.
Assuming I don't run into any unforeseen problems, I expect to finish the whole thing before Christmas.
Does that mean we get ingame dancers somewhere around Christmas?
Topic Starter
Only if peppy/Intermezzo add dancer support in time, and I figure out how to export everything properly. I have a good feeling about this, though.
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This map has been deleted on the request of its creator. It is no longer available.
Wait so after years of toil you finally got a good looking pippi model. good job.
..Whoa,that looked pretty darn awesome.Great job,Loginer~
Can't wait to see her dancing in osu!
Can't wait to see her dancing in osu!
Hard work yields awesomeness =D
I've read the ''whole'' topic and all i can say is .....WOW its like an awsome work to 0 to 9000+ in almost 60 pages
filled of posts kudos to Loginer for his awesome job
filled of posts kudos to Loginer for his awesome job
holy crap I had an idea vaguely similar to that last night good job Daru
Topic Starter
Short status update. I've finished enough ugly-and-only-meant-as-placeholders-until-I-learn-how-to-animate-properly animations, and I've managed to successfully export everything. Well, sort of. (Works fine as a .fbx, though). I also have to fix a problem with the joints before everything is ready, but that won't take long.
A month without updates? Is that a record?
Topic Starter
Oh, not at all.
I've already successfully exported Pippi to a .x file, I just need to finish a few more poses. I'm kind of busy with another project right now, though, so you'll have to give me a few more days.
I've already successfully exported Pippi to a .x file, I just need to finish a few more poses. I'm kind of busy with another project right now, though, so you'll have to give me a few more days.
Months? More like two weeks.Zone51 wrote:
a few months later......
where still waiting : )
Haha, I'd like to join in on this 
Quite interested at Pippi xD
Ill have a valentine drawing done.... after Valentines -.-
Quite interested at Pippi xD
Ill have a valentine drawing done.... after Valentines -.-
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Aaaaaaaaaand another month with no updates. Whee.
Tsukasa resembles Kagamine Rin.
And they both resemble Pippi~
And they both resemble Pippi~
yeah they all look like teen anime girls with short-ish hair
That's anime for ya'
Topic Starter
Good news: I've decided to get shit done this following week.
Loginer wrote:
:I've decided to get shit done this following week.
XD totally into the mood !
and mind if you can post another image of pippi ?
and mind if you can post another image of pippi ?
lolLoginer wrote:
Good news: I've decided to get shit done this following week.
Topic Starter
Okay, so there are 18 poses so far: 2 groups with 9 poses in each group, representing nine different parts of the screen. All poses consist of a single frame; as long as she doesn't hold a pose for more than about half a second, this should look fine. There are also three other "special" moves I haven't uploaded any pictures of: Stomp, clap and clasp. These are accompanied by appropriate sound samples, and are exactly what they sound like: Pippi stomping, clapping and clasping her hands.
I haven't uploaded any videos of the idling, tired, failing, and tripping animations (when you miss a beat while the HP bar is in the yellow, Pippi loses her balance; she regains her balance as soon as you hit a beat, and if you somehow keep missing until you fail, she falls over). I also have an idea I haven't done anything with yet: Instead of just standing there if the HP bar is in the red (like in the iNiS games), Pippi could keep dancing in an exhausted manner.
Here's what the poses currently look like. I haven't uploaded any pictures of the left-side poses, as they're simply the right-side poses mirrored. Please ignore the bad skinning (limbs/cloth not deforming properly) and bored-looking expression on Pippi's face.
Group A (punches and various poses)
Center (preparation pose, first punch, second punch)
Top (first punch, second punch)
Upper-right
Right (first pose, second pose)
Lower-right (first punch, second punch)
Bottom (first punch, second punch)
Group B (generic cheerleading poses)
Center
Top
Upper-right
Right
Lower-right
Bottom
Any constructive criticism by people who've read the third paragraph is welcome. Please don't kill me if it looks awful, this is my first time animating.
I haven't uploaded any videos of the idling, tired, failing, and tripping animations (when you miss a beat while the HP bar is in the yellow, Pippi loses her balance; she regains her balance as soon as you hit a beat, and if you somehow keep missing until you fail, she falls over). I also have an idea I haven't done anything with yet: Instead of just standing there if the HP bar is in the red (like in the iNiS games), Pippi could keep dancing in an exhausted manner.
Here's what the poses currently look like. I haven't uploaded any pictures of the left-side poses, as they're simply the right-side poses mirrored. Please ignore the bad skinning (limbs/cloth not deforming properly) and bored-looking expression on Pippi's face.
Group A (punches and various poses)
Center (preparation pose, first punch, second punch)
Top (first punch, second punch)
Upper-right
Right (first pose, second pose)
Lower-right (first punch, second punch)
Bottom (first punch, second punch)
Group B (generic cheerleading poses)
Center
Top
Upper-right
Right
Lower-right
Bottom
Any constructive criticism by people who've read the third paragraph is welcome. Please don't kill me if it looks awful, this is my first time animating.
Awesome. Can't wait to see this completely finished.
For the most part, it looks really stiff. You can have the most fluid arm movements in the world, but if the rest of the body doesn't react in kind, it'll look ugly. Move her feet around a bit and add more lean to her body to exaggerate poses where possible.
Her hand when placed on the hip is also unnatural. Fingers perpendicular to the ground/parallel to her legs is a very unnatural pose to hold. Usually, the fingers of the hand go forward across the pelvis while the thumb is tucked on the other side of the hip (though the thumb can also run along with the fingers too, that's not that uncommon). Placement of the hand as it is in aupperright-0 looks like it's a tad too low - I think it should rest slightly above her belt, which would of course be resting on the hip bones.
Thirdly, the alowerright1-0 punch has either an odd center of gravity or an odd skeleton. I'm not sure which. But her feet seem welded to the ground.
With the fist in the above picture, you need to curl her fingers more (this may require re-shaping the hands idk) because right now they look a bit like bear paws or something. Thumb goes over the fingers.
I like the sound of the gameplay interaction when failing.
Her hand when placed on the hip is also unnatural. Fingers perpendicular to the ground/parallel to her legs is a very unnatural pose to hold. Usually, the fingers of the hand go forward across the pelvis while the thumb is tucked on the other side of the hip (though the thumb can also run along with the fingers too, that's not that uncommon). Placement of the hand as it is in aupperright-0 looks like it's a tad too low - I think it should rest slightly above her belt, which would of course be resting on the hip bones.
Thirdly, the alowerright1-0 punch has either an odd center of gravity or an odd skeleton. I'm not sure which. But her feet seem welded to the ground.
With the fist in the above picture, you need to curl her fingers more (this may require re-shaping the hands idk) because right now they look a bit like bear paws or something. Thumb goes over the fingers.
I like the sound of the gameplay interaction when failing.
It's awesome . Just on little detail in my opinion. It would look nice if she were smiling 
.
. Just on little detail in my opinion. It would look nice if she were smiling .Some of these poses don't look very natural or cheer-like. I recommend trying these poses yourself. Try to capture the feel of cheering; look at professional cheerleaders/ouendan for inspiration. Most of your poses look confined to a small space or close to the body; make Pippi move around more.Loginer wrote:
Group A (punches and various poses)
I can't judge these poses without some pom-pons. You've made some, yes?Loginer wrote:
Group B (generic cheerleading poses)
Well, she is kinda confined to the screen, so I'm assuming that's why it's like that, however I do agree with you on that front. she could use a little more movement, even if it is shifting her feet over a little bit.soradg123 wrote:
Some of these poses don't look very natural or cheer-like. I recommend trying these poses yourself. Try to capture the feel of cheering; look at professional cheerleaders/ouendan for inspiration. Most of your poses look confined to a small space or close to the body; make Pippi move around more.Loginer wrote:
Group A (punches and various poses)
well you guys got everything right >.>
and lol also in some moves i see that the clothes are so static that
it just says to ''HEY ! its 3D' find a way that the clothes move in certain poses (when their arms are held high the clothes should not do that -,-)
http://up.ppy.sh/files/bupper-0.png
even the clothes feel unnatural XD
(google chrome hates me XC)
and lol also in some moves i see that the clothes are so static that
it just says to ''HEY ! its 3D' find a way that the clothes move in certain poses (when their arms are held high the clothes should not do that -,-)
http://up.ppy.sh/files/bupper-0.png
even the clothes feel unnatural XD
(google chrome hates me XC)
You did not read the third paragraph like you were supposed to.
nope not paranoia its just the system that google uses to fix text that just sucks
Fix text? What?Zone51 wrote:
nope not paranoia its just the system that google uses to fix text that just sucks
Topic Starter
Progress! I've replaced pretty much every move with either more "natural-looking" versions, or moves "inspired" by the Ouendan games. The fists are also looking slightly less like paws. Here are the renders dumped in no particular order; just read the file names to figure out which move is which. As usual, I'll fix the skinning later.
http://up.ppy.sh/files/acenter1-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/acenter2-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/acenterp-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/alower1-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/alowerright1-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/alowerright2-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/aright1-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/aright2-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/aupper1-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/aupperright-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/bcenter-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/blower-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/blowerright-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/bright-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/bupper-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/bupperright-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/acenter1-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/acenter2-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/acenterp-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/alower1-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/alowerright1-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/alowerright2-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/aright1-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/aright2-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/aupper1-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/aupperright-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/bcenter-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/blower-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/blowerright-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/bright-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/bupper-1.png
http://up.ppy.sh/files/bupperright-1.png
Set A: Pippi's uh...ready to fight? Her stance makes me think manly.
Set B: Good! When doing directional movements, make Pippi look in that direction a bit more.
Ooh! And some Space Channel 5 movements perhaps?
Set B: Good! When doing directional movements, make Pippi look in that direction a bit more.
Ooh! And some Space Channel 5 movements perhaps?
Yeah, as I'd suspected earlier, this is as good a reference as any to point out that she's way too thin. Like, third-world starving, thin. Something also looks off about this one, but it's the one that I find harder to pinpoint.
And because I'm not too sure myself, I decided to consult a br0sef experienced in the subject matter. Proportions on the model are still a little wonky, and the variety of perspectives helps to shed some light on it. The upper torso in particular, I think, is too tall. The hand looks too flat/thin or too small in general (good example of that here), forearms are hourglass-shaped when they should be more cone-shaped if anything (minus the point at the end, of course) and the connection of the arm at the elbow looks a bit dodgy. idk if that's a skinning or modeling error.
With respect to the actual poses though, a lot of them are looking quite good and natural. And this pose in particular does a good job of hiding a lot of the model's flaws while looking like a strong pose.
Based on feedback that I've gathered from a br0sef of mine, when tinkering with the model it would be a really good idea to gather some images from the Internet of real people to use as references, for getting shapes and proportions tweaked.
Even a small flaw can really throw off an entire painting, after all.
And because I'm not too sure myself, I decided to consult a br0sef experienced in the subject matter. Proportions on the model are still a little wonky, and the variety of perspectives helps to shed some light on it. The upper torso in particular, I think, is too tall. The hand looks too flat/thin or too small in general (good example of that here), forearms are hourglass-shaped when they should be more cone-shaped if anything (minus the point at the end, of course) and the connection of the arm at the elbow looks a bit dodgy. idk if that's a skinning or modeling error.
With respect to the actual poses though, a lot of them are looking quite good and natural. And this pose in particular does a good job of hiding a lot of the model's flaws while looking like a strong pose.
Based on feedback that I've gathered from a br0sef of mine, when tinkering with the model it would be a really good idea to gather some images from the Internet of real people to use as references, for getting shapes and proportions tweaked.
Even a small flaw can really throw off an entire painting, after all.
I trust that these will look fine in motion. Keep tweaking away, but maybe send what you have so far to peppy so he can try implementing something.
I think her posture there is just too stiff, makes her look like, uh...awp wrote:
Something also looks off about this one, but it's the one that I find harder to pinpoint.
Will she have emotion in her face in the final version?
LuigiHann wrote:
I trust that these will look fine in motion. Keep tweaking away, but maybe send what you have so far to peppy so he can try implementing something.I think her posture there is just too stiff, makes her look like, uh...awp wrote:
Something also looks off about this one, but it's the one that I find harder to pinpoint.
You're exacly right. She definitely should look more relaxed.
Fixing posture doesn't fix proportions =(
Well her proportions are the same in all the pictures, but you pointed that picture out as particularly weird, and the reason that one looks weirder than the others is because of the postureawp wrote:
Fixing posture doesn't fix proportions =(
I think it's more the angle than the actual pose
Topic Starter
LuigiHann is right, it's the pose. Pippi turns her chest about 45 degrees in that image, but it looks like she's just turning her head.
I'll probably replace that one, anyway.
I'll probably replace that one, anyway.
I didn't really think too hard about which pose goes into which set, so I'm assuming the punches are what's bothering you.soradg123 wrote:
Set A: Pippi's uh...ready to fight? Her stance makes me think manly.
Is the torso overall too tall? If it's just the chest that bothers you, it's probably because the model bends at the wrong spot.awp wrote:
The upper torso in particular, I think, is too tall.
Any particular pose you're thinking of? The forearms look fine to me.awp wrote:
forearms are hourglass-shaped when they should be more cone-shaped if anything (minus the point at the end, of course
Pipppi has earned the achievement Pancake!: Flatter than a pancake.
the shape of the forearms should not change based on the pose?
http://up.ppy.sh/files/bupper-1.png and http://up.ppy.sh/files/bright-1.png show it off a bit
http://up.ppy.sh/files/bupper-1.png and http://up.ppy.sh/files/bright-1.png show it off a bit
o-0 well no new posts here i hope he did finish some stuff : )