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Lyncher Mafia 2 [Lyncher Win!]

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NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
I wasn't saying "Let's stop discussing."
I was saying "Don't discuss things that would benefit anti-town more than town."
Stop misrepresenting me.

Wojjan wrote:

oh btw if you're not maf what do you have to show for it other than "let's not discuss things"
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Burden_of_Proof
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
that article is faulty and allows anyone who is not even remotely participating in pro-town discussion to pass off any obligation to post as "I can't prove I'm not scum"

huh I think the english have a fancy word for that.
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
How is what I'm discussing not "pro-town" exactly?
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
you're saying not to discuss a subject.
why would we not try to predict what's going to happen tonight? we could be right, we could be wrong, mafia can deliberately act on our suspicions to throw us a loop but regardless of what happens the maf will be influenced by our discussion.
you were keen to follow my lead in claiming a lynchee, but according to your logic you're better off not talking about that since it gives the mafia an advantage: they know that one out of the two that lyncheed bmin is false for sure, for instance.
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
EBWOP:
But still your post asks if I prove that I'm not scum.
The thing is NO ONE CAN in this game.

There's a big difference between using that article as a scapegoat for not posting useful, and using that article to counter a fallacious argument.

Edit: Ninja'd
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
EBWOP COUNTER: I'm asking you to state one single thing that might count in your favor for me thinking you're not scummy and you point to a three-line faulty wiki article.
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
oh btw guys you're very welcome to post.
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter

Wojjan wrote:

you're saying not to discuss a subject.
why would we not try to predict what's going to happen tonight? we could be right, we could be wrong, mafia can deliberately act on our suspicions to throw us a loop but regardless of what happens the maf will be influenced by our discussion.
you were keen to follow my lead in claiming a lynchee, but according to your logic you're better off not talking about that since it gives the mafia an advantage: they know that one out of the two that lyncheed bmin is false for sure, for instance.
I think you misunderstood.
I'm fine with claiming as it gives equal amount of info to both sides, but you basically told mafia a strategy.
That's what I'm against. The very fact you basically instructed what mafia should do.
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter

Wojjan wrote:

EBWOP COUNTER: I'm asking you to state one single thing that might count in your favor for me thinking you're not scummy and you point to a three-line faulty wiki article.
OK. What about the fact that I performed a check and balance regarding your strategy?
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
well if I tell mafia go kill rantai tonight and they don't kill rantai they probably have a reason not to kill rantai
if what happens tonight deviates from what I foresaw then the mafia would come out poorly out of my proposed exchange. that would urge me to reconsider stuff, and town debate is up 'n going.

there is basically no reason to hide a maf strat you think will take place any more than "I think krzy will die tonight"
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
Sad as I say to admit it, you do have a point.
I retract my statement then.

But I still think there's a better strategy for this.
I'm thinking of one as now.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
;~;

Blowing up a 'stating the obvious' statement wasn't overly productive, if not distracting.

Unless some information was scrounged up from your argument?
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan

NoHItter wrote:

But I still think there's a better strategy for this.
I'm thinking of one as now.
But NoHItter, sang the silly bitch, what strategy do you have in mind?
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,850 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY
Seeing as NoHItter got Wojjan's point, I won't add to why I think what Wojjan is doing is more beneficial to Town in the long run than it might be detrimental to Town in the short run.

Still can't figure out any sort of plausible lynch target. After reading Wojjan's posts I feel it was of the lyncher's best interest to claim his/her real lynchee, but I think the lyncher might not have thought that hard when he/she claimed his/her lynchee.
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
hey lyncher now's the time for backsies.
If I were to make a backsie, it'd be KRZY.
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,850 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY
What's a backsie
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
"no wait I mean my lynchee is so-and-so"

if we all do that we give the lyncher leeway for changing his lynchee if he didn't think it through that much.
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,850 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY
If I were to make a backsie, it'd be NoHItter.
bmin11
5,438 posts
Joined October 2008
bmin11
If I were to make a backsie, it'd be Rantai. Honestly, I don't even get the point of doing this, but lets see what we get out of this ._.;;
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
well someone said "wait what if the lyncher lied without knowing the plan" so now we're giving the lyncher, whoever it might be, the chance to correct themselves.
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
you're also totally welcome to say "no backsies" btw
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
I wouldn't make a backsie.

This is still confusing as crap.
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,850 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY

Rantai wrote:

I wouldn't make a backsie.

This is still confusing as crap.
So you're saying your lynchee is bmin11?
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
As much as you're saying yours is NoHItter, yes.
bmin11
5,438 posts
Joined October 2008
bmin11
What are you trying to get, KRZY?
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,850 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY

bmin11 wrote:

What are you trying to get, KRZY?
Applying pressure, is all. Who knows, Rantai might slip something for us.
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
OK I give up. The only other strategy I could think of was the gambit I did previous game wherein we put someone to L-1 with a self-vote and hope no one gets hammered for a confirmed non-lynchee.

Wojjan - NoHitter -> KRZY
KRZY - bmin11 -> NoHItter
Rantai - bmin11 (No change)
bmin11 - Wojjan -> Rantai
NoHitter - Rantai -> KRZY
(Correct me if I copied it wrongly)

Rantai's choice to remain firm is kind of bothering me.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
Well you see here, I don't understand the difference between each lynchee claim. No matter which name I choose it's still fake and holds the exact same weight.

The only time the name is going to be significant is when the lyncher him/her self makes the announcement. Which, unfortunately, we will not know unless they straight out claim.
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,850 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY

Rantai wrote:

Well you see here, I don't understand the difference between each lynchee claim. No matter which name I choose it's still fake and holds the exact same weight.

The only time the name is going to be significant is when the lyncher him/her self makes the announcement. Which, unfortunately, we will not know unless they straight out claim.
Even without knowing who the lyncher is, by doing this, we get a lot of information after N1. For instance, at this current situation, if I am lynched D1 and the day still goes on, we know that Wojjan and NoHItter are not lynchers. The lyncher may still have fakeclaimed, but I don't think he did because claiming the correct lynchee is a benefit to the lyncher too. We're giving a slight advantage to the lyncher and the mafia so Town can earn a bigger advantage after N1.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai

KRZY wrote:

Even without knowing who the lyncher is, by doing this, we get a lot of information after N1. For instance, at this current situation, if I am lynched D1 and the day still goes on, we know that Wojjan and NoHItter are not lynchers. The lyncher may still have fakeclaimed, but I don't think he did because claiming the correct lynchee is a benefit to the lyncher too. We're giving a slight advantage to the lyncher and the mafia so Town can earn a bigger advantage after N1.
Now I'm just being annoying.

Anyway, if you are lynched and you were the lynchee then, well, game over. The fact it's useful for D2 is irrelevant at that point. If the lyncher fake claimed then we have as much chance of the lynchee lynch as an uninformed lynch. If the lyncher true claimed then we have a bucket of wifom to work with.

I guess I can see the benefit of this for D2. But for its immediate benefit (ie not getting the lynchee lynched) I'm not seeing it.
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,850 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY
Sorry, I meant game.

Also we're gonna lynch someone anyhow, so there is always a chance that we will kill the game with the wrong lynch. We can't avoid that. Then, it's better to have something to work with than nothing.
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
Topic Starter
0_o
Added a fancy link to the time remaining under the Links section of the OP.
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
I actually didn't expect a valid lynchee from the lyncher first thing so in my book rantai is maf or townie.
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
Eleven hours until the deadline and we don't have a solid target.

Wojjan - NoHitter -> KRZY
KRZY - bmin11 -> NoHItter
Rantai - bmin11 (No change)
bmin11 - Wojjan -> Rantai
NoHitter - Rantai -> KRZY

Judging from the list of lynchee claims, a Wojjan lynch would be "safe" assuming that the lyncher did the tell truth.
But I don't think it's a good reason to someone who looks townie.

After rereading, I'm for KRZY or Rantai.

KRZY:
Scumpainting comment on Rantai.
SPOILER

KRZY wrote:

Trying to lynch me, Rantai?
Also seems kind of defensive.
Attempt to misrep Rantai.
SPOILER

KRZY wrote:

So you're saying your lynchee is bmin11?
Oh and this comment.
SPOILER

KRZY wrote:

Applying pressure, is all. Who knows, Rantai might slip something for us.
Basically looks as if he's targeting Rantai specifically.

Rantai:
The decision to remain firm regarding the change of "lynchee target". (@Wojjan: I still don't see how this is a non-lyncher tell.)

So I would vote for KRZY, but then he's my claimed lynchee >.>
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
Topic Starter
0_o

NoHItter wrote:

Eleven hours until the deadline
23, actually.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
Not sure what my changing target would tell you but ok.

If you think I'm the lyncher telling the truth, easy solution is to never lynch bmin. I would never be able to theoretically win and you have yourself a free townie. Though if you think I'm a lyncher and think I'm lying then it's time to turn your head and consider the other liars too (remember only 1 of them could possibly be telling the truth). Though it would suck if I was a lynchee but that's way too much wifom.

If you think I'm mafia, don't lynch bmin (to cover your lyncher suspicion) and lynch me tomorrow. No risk of losing overnight, chance for lyncher/lynchee to be shot and a lynch to find the actual mafia/lyncher.

Yeah I am claiming town.

I have to admit that KRZY's attacks were rather random, especially trying to get me to slip (call it scum hunting or call it looking for an excuse). But then again I'm equally as suspicious of Wojjan (because of the town direction, possible misdirection) and I have some sort of problem being unable to see NoHItter in an anti-town light.

Who does that leave? Oh yes bmin. The only guy who flies under my radar.

There's my thoughts for now. Long story short: I am under the belief that based on the information I see so far, a vote from me would have almost the same weight as a RV, only slightly stronger.
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,850 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY
I must admit this is a difficult game.
KRZY
Former osu! Champion: OWC#3
4,850 posts
Joined May 2009
KRZY
Wojjan - NoHitter -> KRZY
KRZY - bmin11 -> NoHItter
Rantai - bmin11 (No change)
bmin11 - Wojjan -> Rantai
NoHitter - Rantai -> KRZY

Well, IF we assume that the lyncher told the truth, it would be the safest to lynch Wojjan; however, to borrow Rantai's words, I feel this choice is only slightly better than an RV. This whole setup makes voting for someone too risky at all times during D1.

Still thinking best choice is wojjan, if only by a rat's tail. What do you guys think?
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
Mod:
SPOILER
?????

bmin has kind of fallen out of my radar too.
He's neutral for me atm.

OK guys, Who do you want to lynch today?
KRZY and me already answered, so yeah.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
Wojjan or KRZY.

Wojjan for the possible safety factor and for trying to lead the town (bad feeling coming off it).

KRZY for those oddly placed, specific attacks.

They are equal weights.
bmin11
5,438 posts
Joined October 2008
bmin11
I really don't wanna go for Wojjan lynch. Like I said, I don't think this is misleading us. This is only a D1 plan and a foundation for D2 discussion. This plan could be valid, or not depends on our discussion and if we think it logically doesn't makes sense, we would just abandon or fix it. Lastly, I don't think we can even offer a safety proof lynch when we only have two lynches. I have a stronger hunch on other person than Wojjan right now.

NoHItter, neutral for me. Actually, slightly to the town side since he is the first to doubt Wojjan's plan and this gives me pro-town feeling.

Rantai is the same with NoHItter in my opinion, just more to the mafia side. Reason why is because he went with the plan without a word, but now he changed his opinion towards the end of the day. Not too suspicious, just giving me a bad hunch.

I'm left with KRZY and he is IMO the most suspicious around here. The point where he questions Rantai's backsie gave me an impression of starting his scum paint. Whatever it was, it did not felt like townish at all.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
I was confused on the point of the plan but not against it. (I think it's mentioned somewhere)

I'm actually still confused on the point of the plan for it's immediate effect to the point where I don't think there is actually any significant benefit. Though it was cleared up for me for its effect on D2.
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
Topic Starter
0_o

NoHItter wrote:

Mod:
durr don't mind me, I'll just forget people are in different timezones. Fixed.

19 hours from this post.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
I knew we couldn't trust this guy.

<3
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
Yeah sure lynch the most protown player

Vote: Rantai, obviousest lyncher.
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
Topic Starter
0_o
Extending the day by an hour since I probably won't be there by the current deadline.

So you have 9 hours
bmin11
5,438 posts
Joined October 2008
bmin11
Well I think KRZY is our lyncher. Vote: KRZY
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
Vote: KRZY

Those attacks having an ulterior motive seem more likely than a mislead. Then again I still have a suspicion that Wojjan is mafia but it's not as strong.
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
I'm still undecided on who to vote, but it's definitely one of Rantai and KRZY.
I'm leaning more on KRZY for now, but I need to think about it.
I'll try to decide before the deadline.
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
Vote: KRZY

*crosses fingers*
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
Topic Starter
0_o
And just like that, KRZY got the boot.

KRZY - Townie - Lynched Day 1

Congratulations, you get to see Day 2 this time!

Well, most of you anyway.

It is now Night 1. Mafia, send in your nightkill within 24 hours. You may request to end the night earlier if you wish.
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
Topic Starter
0_o
GOOD MORRRRRRRRRNING

Not for Wojjan though, he's dead.

Wojjan - Townie - Killed Night 1

It is now Day 2.

4 days from this post.
Last edited by 0_o , edited 1 time in total.
Wojjan
806 posts
Joined August 2008
Wojjan
do your thing town.
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
kjdhsjahdsldhaks
Screw you Maf, you killed my frickin lynchee.

So I think Rantai's the mafia for not changing a possible lynchee target.
Vote: Rantai

On the plus side, I get to boast about how I lied regarding my lynchee, disregarding Wojjan's plan before the game ends.
Screw you Rantai, screw you.
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
EWBOP:
Unvote

Sigh, perhaps I was a bit too hasty there.
I'm tired right now, and I'm going to reread the thread tomorrow or something.
But I really think Rantai's the mafia though compared to bmin.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
You have got to be kidding me.

Ok now that I know the set up, I can safely say I am screwed.

I know both of you are either mafia or lyncher. Don't be shy. And don't try to claim town, I know it's complete and utter BS to the point I will instantly vote you (giving the other party a win).

If you both want to lynch me then go ahead. Just remember if I'm lynchee, Mr. Mafia is screwed. If I'm not then Mr. Lyncher is screwed. But neither of you know that so take that risk as you will.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
Ooh ninja. And not an instant win for the lyncher but that's irrelevant now with that claim.
bmin11
5,438 posts
Joined October 2008
bmin11
For me, both of you are on the same level of suspicion. Rantai for what I've explained on D1. But NoHItter for his claim on Lyncher. This is too much of a WIFOM though.
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
Well, I know I was lyncher.
And unless someone counterclaims lyncher, which both you and Rantai didn't, I'm confirmed town now.
My lynchee died, so basically I'm now part of Town.
(Though I would have wanted to stay a lyncher.)

Therefore, one of you or Rantai is mafia, the other is town.

As of the current reads based on the game day so far, bmin is looking scummier for his "both of you are suspicious" post.
He knows Rantai didn't claim lyncher, and I did. Therefore, since my lynchee died, I have to be townie.
How exactly could that be WIFOM when no one else claimed lyncher?

Rantai's AtE post strikes me very scummy as well. "Sure lynch me, but one of you will surely lose".
Then again, he says that he got ninja'd by my posts and thus didn't know that I claimed my lynchee died?
bmin11
5,438 posts
Joined October 2008
bmin11
Ya that was confusion on my part. Rantai is not lyncher, so you must be the lyncher. Actually, I'm a inch close to vote for Rantai. My only problem is, what if mafia is also Lynchee? This is crazy for town side to win, but LS could have considered town to lynch the lyncher first or something. I'm just doubting this a lot, which is why I'm a inch away from voting Rantai yet.
bmin11
5,438 posts
Joined October 2008
bmin11
Well screw it. Vote: Rantai.
I don't think he would have made town's win condition to be that hard. I mean, we would have to lynch Lyncher -> mafia without a mislynch.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
*3 Townies, one of which is an (uninformed) Lynchee.

Tricky bmin, no way you missed the first page. Also that is completely inconsequential for you, if there is a mafia lynchee (which there isn't) then you could have voted either of us because it wouldn't matter to you, if you were town. Meaning being an inch away from voting for me was you looking to see if NoHItter was lying about his lynchee which would only benefit the mafia player.

It's very clear to me now that NoHItter wasn't lying. I leave it to you now.
bmin11
5,438 posts
Joined October 2008
bmin11
I'm doubting that you would be a mafia + lynchee because of how ridiculous the win condition will be. After reading NoHItter's post and drawing that conclustion, it was obvious for me you could only be the mafia and it won't be a lyncher win from lynching you.
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
Wasn't lying about his role that is.

Consider this too, he kept the most scummy town alive for an easy vote, like above.

I've got to run now, Vote: bmin don't hammer if you have even a small amount of doubt.
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
Guess what? 8-)
SPOILER
Rantai's my lynchee.

Vote: Rantai
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
Oh just before I go.

Well there you go. I knew that situation was possible but that meant I was really screwed.
bmin11
5,438 posts
Joined October 2008
bmin11

Rantai wrote:

Consider this too, he kept the most scummy town alive for an easy vote,
Consider this as well, that could apply to you.Even more to consider, I was confused who to vote when D2 started. This would not be the case if I knew who was the easiest to lynch here.
Last edited by bmin11 , edited 1 time in total.
bmin11
5,438 posts
Joined October 2008
bmin11
okay nvm lol gg
bmin11
5,438 posts
Joined October 2008
bmin11
Oh and role claim: mafia, if it wasn't obvious. I spilled too much beans orz
NoHitter
osu! Alumni
3,785 posts
Joined June 2009
NoHitter
Yeah basically when I learned that Rantai, me and bmin remained, I was 100% sure that bmin was mafia.
I attempted to quick vote place, but figured out that was too WIFOM given that I had been hasty.
So I scrapped that plan and came out with the traditional Ly-Lo method.

btw bmin, you were pretty scummy today.
If I were town, I would vote you over Rantai because of how you acted.
bmin11
5,438 posts
Joined October 2008
bmin11
I spilled too much beans orz
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
Topic Starter
0_o

bmin11 wrote:

Ya that was confusion on my part. Rantai is not lyncher, so you must be the lyncher. Actually, I'm a inch close to vote for Rantai. My only problem is, what if mafia is also Lynchee? This is crazy for town side to win, but LS could have considered town to lynch the lyncher first or something. I'm just doubting this a lot, which is why I'm a inch away from voting Rantai yet.

bmin11 wrote:

This is crazy for town side to win, but LS could have considered town to lynch the lyncher first or something.

bmin11 wrote:

LS
really now

anyway

You heard it, folks.

Rantai - Lynchee - Lynched Day 2

NoHItter - Lyncher - Wins!

Roles:
bmin11 - Mafia
NoHItter - Lyncher
Rantai - Lynchee
KRZY - Townie
Wojjan - Townie

Notes:
Just that bmin's best (and only, I think) viable move would have been to counterclaim Lyncher with Wojjan as his lynchee.

Well I hope that was more enjoyable than last game :P Do you guys like this setup? I'll likely be looking into different setups for my future minigames, but if this setup is enjoyable I can put it on the list of games to bring back in the future.
Last edited by 0_o , edited 1 time in total.
bmin11
5,438 posts
Joined October 2008
bmin11
omg I'm so sorry 0_o ;____;

I was thinking of Counter-claiming, but I just wanted to believe NoHItter was telling the truth *sigh*
Rantai
1,000 posts
Joined July 2010
Rantai
It was fun, except for the part where I had no hope of winning :P
0_o
2,155 posts
Joined December 2008
Topic Starter
0_o

bmin11 wrote:

omg I'm so sorry 0_o ;____;
You are forgiven.

this time

bmin11 wrote:

I was thinking of Counter-claiming, but I just wanted to believe NoHItter was telling the truth *sigh*
Regardless of whether he was telling the truth or not, by not counterclaiming NoHItter became confirmed Lyncher, thus Rantai had no choice but to vote for you since he only had a chance of winning by lynching the mafia.
LadySuburu
80 posts
Joined June 2008
LadySuburu
Posting because apperently I'm involved in this thread.

Oh wait, it was a mistype. Carry on.
Swiftwolf Yellowtail
71 posts
Joined July 2008
Swiftwolf Yellowtail
I think they're too used to you being the host. :P
Chris_old
0 posts
Joined February 2008
Chris_old
word nohitter lyncher 4 lyfe
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