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Editor: Disable Universal Offset when mapping

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +0
Osuva nimi HAH
39 posts
Joined September 2018
Topic Starter
Osuva nimi HAH

What?


This is a feature request related to the map editor. I'd like an option for disabling the user-set universal offset when editing a map. It could also be a switch inside the editor itself or another slider to specify a different offset.

Why?


Universal offset (UO henceforth) is great. For a consistent lag you can compensate by reducing the offset. But it's not so hot for high audio lag. The offset doesn't affect hitsounds, so they can lag behind drastically. This problem would be solved by optimising the audio output chain, but that's not enough in all cases. So one can mute all hitsounds instead. This way at least the gameplay feels right.

However, hitsounds are an integral part of mapping. For those that use them, they provide valuable information on the quality of their hit. They can also be used to more carefully validate the offset of a map, as the visual alternative is more prone to error. So as UO doesn't affect hitsounds, when mapping, the offset should be set to zero. To keep it that way one can adjust the offset of individual maps. But if it's the same for every map, that seems like the thing universal offset is for.

On the topic elsewhere


Invalid feature request: Don't affect the setting "Universal Offset" to the editor.
https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/topics/633701
In my mind this request does not reach the heart of the problem, although I think the author was onto the same thing.

Feature request: ASIO / WASAPI (exclusive) support
https://osu.ppy.sh/community/forums/topics/428222
This would get to the heart of the issue of reducing audio lag, but it is said in the discussion that ASIO will most likely not be supported. Regardless, the feature I'm proposing would be beneficial even if the offset being used is very small.
Last edited by Osuva nimi HAH , edited 1 time in total.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
I am confused what are you requesting. If music starts at 0ms and the first note is snapped to 0ms in the editor, then that's the time music and the first note start. Universal offset doesn't affect audio or notes in editor, it is applied during gameplay by shifting the start of the map. Finally, universal offset does not do anything to hitsounds what-so-ever.
Full Tablet
2,542 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet

abraker wrote:

I am confused what are you requesting. If music starts at 0ms and the first note is snapped to 0ms in the editor, then that's the time music and the first note start. Universal offset doesn't affect audio or notes in editor, it is applied during gameplay by shifting the start of the map. Finally, universal offset does not do anything to hitsounds what-so-ever.

Universal Offset affects the editor the same way it affects the gameplay (shifts the position of notes with respect to the music).
Last edited by Full Tablet , edited 1 time in total.
Agka
680 posts
Joined January 2009
Agka
I find it useful to have UO in the editor. That way if I time the charts to what seems correct under it, it'll feel correct along with all the other maps that I adjusted the UO with, which is to say, the timing will be correct.

So humbly, I disagree. Prefer playtesting to matching keysounds when testing out your timing. Hitsounds will not match the song correctly when the audio is correctly offset for playing, they'll always be late due to latency.
Full Tablet
2,542 posts
Joined September 2011
Full Tablet

Agka wrote:

So humbly, I disagree. Prefer playtesting to matching keysounds when testing out your timing. Hitsounds will not match the song correctly when the audio is correctly offset for playing, they'll always be late due to latency.

The standard for timing your maps is matching the hitsounds to the music when playing with auto mod (or alternatively, while playing if the game tells you you have 0ms error). People who time the maps hearing the hitsounds and the music (or by seeing the waveforms of their sounds) should use 0 ms UO (unless they have some unusual hardware issue that makes hitsounds be consistently offset from the music).

If you don't use hitsounds, and time to keyboard sounds instead, it becomes harder to time the map correctly, unless you are able to play songs very accurately with whatever UO you have. (I suspect people playing with no hitsounds or near-inaudible hitsounds is the reason it is more common to find ranked maps that are grossly mistimed compared to osu!standard).
Last edited by Full Tablet , edited 1 time in total.
Agka
680 posts
Joined January 2009
Agka
Why would you use a hard difficulty to test timing of all things if you couldn't hit it correctly? The playtesting screen will tell you exactly how many MS off you are instead of guesstimating it by ear.

But fine, let's just say I'd rather have this be a toggle.
Osuva nimi HAH
39 posts
Joined September 2018
Topic Starter
Osuva nimi HAH
Thank you all for the discussion so far! And thanks Full Tablet for the answers in my absence.

To Agka: I agree, it should be a toggle. Although the ability to specify a different offset could help in determining the correct one for the map. To me, playing through the map may validate the result, but my preferred way is to load the song into an audio editor and get the offset that way.

If you feel that this would be a nice feature to have, please vote!
Last edited by Osuva nimi HAH , edited 1 time in total.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Full Tablet wrote:

Universal Offset affects the editor the same way it affects the gameplay (shifts the position of notes with respect to the music).
I stand corrected then. Is offset correctly accounted for at 75% playback, 50%, etc?

Agka wrote:

I find it useful to have UO in the editor. That way if I time the charts to what seems correct under it, it'll feel correct along with all the other maps that I adjusted the UO with, which is to say, the timing will be correct.

So humbly, I disagree. Prefer playtesting to matching keysounds when testing out your timing. Hitsounds will not match the song correctly when the audio is correctly offset for playing, they'll always be late due to latency.
At this point I'll just wait for the wave display that will come in osu!lazer. Gets rid of any audio offset note timing issues altogether since you would be able to match it up visually then.
Osuva nimi HAH
39 posts
Joined September 2018
Topic Starter
Osuva nimi HAH

abraker wrote:

Is offset correctly accounted for at 75% playback, 50%, etc?


To my knowledge, yes. And a wave display would be fantastic! That would help a lot. Didn't know it was coming.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker

Osuva nimi HAH wrote:

abraker wrote:

Is offset correctly accounted for at 75% playback, 50%, etc?
To my knowledge, yes. And a wave display would be fantastic! That would help a lot. Didn't know it was coming.
probably an outdated screenshot
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