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Mapping With Rewards / Feedback

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Okoratu
Nomination Assessment Team / Elite Nominator
4,911 posts
Joined May 2012
Topic Starter
Okoratu
Since Mapping With Rewards is kind of my thing to run right now:

I'm looking for feedback for future iterations of it.
  1. How do you feel about the songs for the current iteration?
  2. How do you feel about the current ruleset?
  3. Is there something that could be changed about the contest itself to make it more pleasant to compete in?


I'm having a few ideas on the topic myself but I'd like to hear what you people think before just going ahead with my own ideas.
Kibbleru
osu! Alumni
5,844 posts
Joined August 2013
Kibbleru
Just get more 'mappable' songs
Ascendance
Elite Mapper
4,225 posts
Joined July 2013
Ascendance
no collabs for "coherent" sets is a turn-off for me personally, and i usually enter every contest

oh yeah and saying that the competition won't run without enough participants is not helping me join either cause there's almost no chance ctb will get enough participants. makes our efforts worthless if we join.
Sanyi
236 posts
Joined November 2015
Sanyi
simply said this contest has way too many obstacles to run for catch
Weber
1,254 posts
Joined May 2015
Weber
The contest format for FA songs sucks, not to any fault of your own, Okoratu. It was always going to be a herculean task to get people interested enough for it to be viable.

Kinda talked about this in the Mapper's Guild thread, but implementing a rewards system for FA songs, but not under a "contest" system where people only have a chance to win for mapping entire mapsets is how you get more people interested.

Might be too optimistic, but extending such a thing to the entire pool of FA songs instead of just a handful would get the ball rolling. Seems like a lot to ask for the current pool of QAT in terms of organisation/management, but more people could be added to help for that purpose.

If you choose not to go ahead with this and continue with the contest format, I'd like to see a community poll for the next one, to gauge the songs people are most interested in being mapped/playing.
Nao Tomori
Nomination Assessment Team
3,089 posts
Joined December 2014
Nao Tomori
i don't understand the point about cohesive sets... i mean it makes sense to not have someone enter with a normal and a hard and then 3 gd insanes and extras ofc, but making a spread like nhiix with a lower diffs gds is pretty normal. and cohesive doesnt make any sense since people tend to only play one diff at a time, so having the diffs line up extraordinarily well seems rather pointless to me.
Nofool
Elite Mapper
1,102 posts
Joined February 2011
Nofool
i think there is like a minimum of effort to produce to get a badge, which is making the whole set yourself sooooo yeah i ofc agree with this part of the rules but perphaps the "coherent" spread explanation should be switched with what i said. making an entire set in 3 6 months isn't supposed to be a big deal :roll:

also a big part of the judging is about the contestant's ability to make a set, not just some random part of it... that shouldn't even be brought as an issue imo



i think either the communication/advertising about this is off (it is) and/or ppl are generally not interested because of the song choices or the rewards (which i find pretty ok)
pishifat
osu! Paragon
3,802 posts
Joined August 2013
pishifat
as someone who mapped the cut version of the namirin song, i like that it's treated with equal weight as the full version now lol. i just wish the cut version of that song included the more climactic chorus instead of the first 2 samey ones. worth keeping in mind for later song cuts

even when mapping the most populated mode, it's demotivating to hear that "if a song doesn't get enough participation, it won't get judged." i wouldn't be against having less songs to choose from, which would solve that

the long submission period makes it less appealing to me. i know it's based on the original's nonexistent deadline, but uh i didn't like that either. with such a long mapping period, there's no incentive to start right away, and by the time the deadline is nearing its end, i've got no interest in participating. a short submission period makes it feel more hype for some reaosn

the "coherency" thing rejecting gds shouldn't be a factor for submissions. if anything, it could be a factor for judging, allowing sets with gds that are coherent to be acceptable and making incoherent sets lose their chance at winning
MaridiuS
878 posts
Joined June 2014
MaridiuS
I dunno if its a surprise, but if the idea of how the winning entires will get exposed may motivate mappers. "special placement" is kinda too vague.
Sieg
3,981 posts
Joined February 2012
Sieg

MaridiuS wrote:

I dunno if its a surprise, but if the idea of how the winning entires will get exposed may motivate mappers. "special placement" is kinda too vague.
I doubt it will be more than it was before - "bundled in", not motivated many mappers to participate. Agree with pishifat about huge deadlines and bad cuts and with Naotoshi on cohesive sets. Side note - I see that ranked became more accessible and people may don't want to map okayish quality full set get 3rd-4th place and observe how their efforts rot in graveyard in the end. Personally I would like to participate but don't feel like I want to map full set of difficulties.
Net0
1,238 posts
Joined October 2014
Net0
I know some people who saw pishi and Lasse maps and just gave up before even trying, I wonder why... I don't think a competition based on judges is the best way to incentive people mapping FA, but that's another matter.

The competition itself probably would work better if it was difficulty submission not completed mapsets, since most people don't like mapping full spreads unless they actually like a lot the song they're mapping, which usually is not the case in mapping competitions. Even with anime/metal/eletronic variety you can't really expect that a lot of people will find any of them interesting enough to map full spread because music taste is just as personal as it can get. There's also the loosing/not ranking factor that most likelly will lead people to have a negative experience towards FA mapping. So yeah, people might not think it's worth the effort of a full spread, but a single diff? That's more tangible.
Shionia-Chan
27 posts
Joined August 2015
Shionia-Chan
For Point 3
  1. Is there something that could be changed about the contest itself to make it more pleasant to compete in?



For Next MWR Contest, open a pre-registration system.
To see if there is enough people interest on participating, 'ALONG' with map pool to be vote

People that registered on the contest must participate when the contest start.
If they failed to submit, they will receive a proper punishment. (The community can help to decide that)
Last edited by Shionia-Chan , edited 1 time in total.
Prophecy
1,794 posts
Joined December 2013
Prophecy
Maybe there should be a prize for 1st runner up or something like that, it's too hard to compete with the experienced one.
Sonnyc
7,753 posts
Joined June 2008
Sonnyc
The initial design of MWR felt like a 'bounty' system to me, so if someone maps the song in a good quality in a designated period, they get a reward. Now, it feels nothing much different with a regular 'mapping contest'. I think MWR needs its own identity compared to the old MBC. Otherwise, I personally wouldn't care if the two contests get merged as there are already lots of inofficial mapping contests running.
Hydria
1,229 posts
Joined April 2011
Hydria
Honestly the song choices were either too bland or just really didn't suit mapping this time (for mania at least). Out of the 3 tracks, I only attempted to map the Fractal Dreamers song as it was the only one appealing to me (Loki's track sounded too generic). I got about 40% in, and then deleted the mapset since I knew what I was going to map wasn't going to represent the song well and I had no way to represent it with the choices I wanted to make.

This isn't to say these artists are bad artists, they have much better songs to choose from though such as:

Loki/Thaehan:
- Anything Thaehan

Fractal Dreamers:
- Infinity Chasers
- Paradigm Shift

It's all about choosing something which suits each game mode, which is something usually with a strong beat and a good rhythm but not something that sounds the same for 4 minutes.
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
Song Choices were meh. Nothing really exciting in terms of rhythm gaming. I mapped Loki's song, and I think it was barely exciting enough. You need songs with complex structures.

I think you need strike a balance between what you want to be created, how much time there should be given to create it, and how much interest would maintained over that time. For example, doing an entire spread over the course of 6 months is reasonable (no way I would have done 4 difficulties within a span of a month), but interest dies down by the end of it such that you almost forget about the contest. Therefore, making a spread would lead to eventual disinterest considering how much time is needed for it. Spending a month to make a difficulty is reasonable, and I don't think much of the interest will be lost within a month.
Last edited by abraker , edited 1 time in total.
sSakai
1 post
Joined February 2018
sSakai
Yes a prize for 1st runner up , :P
anna apple
1,245 posts
Joined March 2014
anna apple
necro^


also why is it even called mapping with rewards, X participants - 1 don't get anything for mapping lol

also ye a lot of people I Know don't really like the song choice :(
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
results to this things are still not out

the heck?
Vulkin
1,602 posts
Joined September 2014
Vulkin

abraker wrote:

results to this things are still not out

the heck?


I think the same thing happened like before, not many people mapping the songs, I guess they just gave up on it for inactivity.
Not to blame though, there hasnt been like a soft reminder on the osu!weekly so :/
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