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EZ Mod Give More PP

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This is a feature request. Feature requests can be voted up by supporters.
Current Priority: +266
Topic Starter
techno3452
I just always think this that, isn't EZ mod have been a little bit too hard for us lately? I'm not saying even low rank player who play 2* map can also gain more pp, I'm just saying that when a 4* map or higher get a pass with EZ, it'll get more pp than usual.

Thank you in advance

p/s: I don't mention what kinds of map. I think it will be good if the map are ar=8and cs=4.
-GN
i agree to this, primarily because of the reading/aim factor that makes EZ so unapproachable in the first place. doubly so for low AR +HD being terribly hard to aim properly.

but i don't expect any developments on this for a while.
abraker
Figuring out how much pp EZ should give is on the subject of figuring out how to quantify reading skill, which is something yet to be figured out

For maps which have notes spaced apart far enough in duration and distance, you should get reduced pp since decreased CS and AR have a smaller effect on difficulty than the advantage decreased OD gives. In maps where notes are spaced close in duration, distance, or both, you should get the extra pp as the increased quantity of various visible features requires better reading efficiency.
[MTF] Wolfette

-GN wrote:

i agree to this, primarily because of the reading/aim factor that makes EZ so unapproachable in the first place. doubly so for low AR +HD being terribly hard to aim properly.

but i don't expect any developments on this for a while.
Or how bout a “skill bonus” of extra pp for reading ar7 or below?
abraker

AsrielDr33murr wrote:

Or how bout a “skill bonus” of extra pp for reading ar7 or below?
did you read anything I said?
Topic Starter
techno3452
Or make a whole new mod. Like EZ is still for people who just started playing. While making a whole new mod similar mod like EZ but being put to just raise your pp. Again this is not necessary as you can just make some maps to give more pp if EZ is on. Again as seeing people agreeing to this suggestion is really wonderful. Thank you :) :lol: :oops:
Zozimoto
How about it only give more pp if the map's above 3 stars?
abraker

Zozimoto wrote:

How about it only give more pp if the map's above 3 stars?
Define a map above 3 stars because the diff calc we have right now is broke and must change
Zozimoto

abraker wrote:

Zozimoto wrote:

How about it only give more pp if the map's above 3 stars?
Define a map above 3 stars because the diff calc we have right now is broke and must change
ok ok i don kno sry excus m
Edgar_Figaro
I still prefer the feature request where EZ just allows the player to set the CS & AR to whatever they want so it’s actually “easier” and then decrease OD and HP like it does currently. This way EZ mod actually works more an intended and not as some weird sometimes easier sometimes harder mod depending on the map
abraker

Edgar_Figaro wrote:

I still prefer the feature request where EZ just allows the player to set the CS & AR to whatever they want so it’s actually “easier” and then decrease OD and HP like it does currently. This way EZ mod actually works more an intended and not as some weird sometimes easier sometimes harder mod depending on the map
What if they set it to harder?
Edgar_Figaro

abraker wrote:

Edgar_Figaro wrote:

I still prefer the feature request where EZ just allows the player to set the CS & AR to whatever they want so it’s actually “easier” and then decrease OD and HP like it does currently. This way EZ mod actually works more an intended and not as some weird sometimes easier sometimes harder mod depending on the map
What if they set it to harder?
Then that’s their own prerogative but the HR mod should be for increasing PP due to increase difficulty. The EZ mod being allowed to set the values would make it indeed easier and then would warrant the score/PP reduction
Kondou-Shinichi

Edgar_Figaro wrote:

I still prefer the feature request where EZ just allows the player to set the CS & AR to whatever they want so it’s actually “easier” and then decrease OD and HP like it does currently. This way EZ mod actually works more an intended and not as some weird sometimes easier sometimes harder mod depending on the map
as a ez player i strongly disagree upon changing cs and ar to whatever the player want
Tanomoshii Nekojou
I still prefer an option to manually adjust AR, OD, etc... and keep and leave the insane EZ and HR the same.
Edgar_Figaro

Kondou-Shinichi wrote:

Edgar_Figaro wrote:

I still prefer the feature request where EZ just allows the player to set the CS & AR to whatever they want so it’s actually “easier” and then decrease OD and HP like it does currently. This way EZ mod actually works more an intended and not as some weird sometimes easier sometimes harder mod depending on the map
as a ez player i strongly disagree upon changing cs and ar to whatever the player want
The current Easy was never meant to be this way though. Back in the day with old mapping metas it actually made the game easier. The new mapping meta has completely messed up its original intention. In Taiko & Mania EZ is still a mod that only makes things easier and doesn’t add any sort of reading difficulty. So in short, the current EZ is broken and should be fixed, not make the PP system adjust for the brokenness.
Pokki
I think the best way to do it would be to make reading density a factor in how pp is calculated. For example, 5 notes on the screen at once will yield less pp than 11 notes on the screen.
abraker

Wolther wrote:

I think the best way to do it would be to make reading density a factor in how pp is calculated. For example, 5 notes on the screen at once will yield less pp than 11 notes on the screen.
Suppose a map with notes placed randomly throughout every 163 ms and there is only one section with a structured pattern that also has notes placed 163 ms apart. The map is AR0 (1800ms visible timespan):

Pattern A:
Consider a stream of notes going off in one direction, each following note spaced 1 times the CS apart from the previous note

Pattern B:
Consider a star shape pattern of 5 notes, each following note 4 times the CS apart from the previous note

What is the expected difficulty of the structured sections isolated from the rest of the map?
What is the expected difficulty of the structured sections not isolated from the rest of the map?

Now how do you derive the expected difficulty for both?


this is the stuff and consideration I have to deal with when trying to figure out how to make the damn reading formula for osu!skills
Vuelo Eluko
hard to weight specific patterns relative to each other properly because in that regard reading is super subjective, some people are good at stars but bad at squares, good at squares bad at stars, good at spaced streams bad at jumps etc

AR is an even bigger wild card, we know the meta is like ar9-9.6, that doesn't mean there aren't players who specialize in lower or higher, but that doesn't make them better.

and you can't really tell how good an ez player is vs a nomod player because of how different they are.

One thing you could try is to normalize everything on a map minus the AR and compare their performance on it, and even then it's not really fair because all the time the ez player spent improving in high density reading was spent by the nomod player primarily on acc or hitting smaller circles so it's a tradeoff either way. Just two very different playstyles... You can meet in the middle in AR/CS maybe, like if an ez player is used to cs2 ar4 and a nomod player is used to cs4 ar9, make the map ar6-6.5 and cs3-3.5? Only issue is they'll both be out of their comfort zone but hopefully equally so. Changing the OD will only disadvantage the ez player though so maybe keep those at their usual. Acc pp isn't intended to be rebalanced here anyway.

Just shooting ideas and how to help evaluate the mod. It's probably always going to be a penalty just due to the OD decreasing either way, unless some low ar reading pp bonus implemented, and even then, it should only be in the most difficult EZ maps that the bonus is enough to completely make up for the acc pp loss by the huge reduction in OD that ez brings.

Anything that results in a more accurate rank for ez players is welcome... Ekoro is laughably underrated.

Fix speed pp while you're at it
Zozimoto
How about measuring Note Density?
abraker

xxjesus1412fanx wrote:

hard to weight specific patterns relative to each other properly because in that regard reading is super subjective, some people are good at stars but bad at squares, good at squares bad at stars, good at spaced streams bad at jumps etc
basically this

xxjesus1412fanx wrote:

One thing you could try is to normalize everything on a map minus the AR and compare their performance on it, and even then it's not really fair because all the time the ez player spent improving in high density reading was spent by the nomod player primarily on acc or hitting smaller circles so it's a tradeoff either way.
yea normalizing can get you so far

xxjesus1412fanx wrote:

It's probably always going to be a penalty just due to the OD decreasing either way, unless some low ar reading pp bonus implemented, and even then, it should only be in the most difficult EZ maps that the bonus is enough to completely make up for the acc pp loss by the huge reduction in OD that ez brings.
Most reading errors center around keep track of which note to hit next, not the timing of it. The decrease in AR makes it so much harder in that regard despite the timing leniency. In fact, the timing leniency would allow you to hit the wrong note earlier instead of being note locked, disallowing you to correct yourself by guessing another note.

Actually, I already wrote for which patterns the penalty would apply in an earlier post:
  • abraker wrote:

    For maps which have notes spaced apart far enough in duration and distance, you should get reduced pp since decreased CS and AR have a smaller effect on difficulty than the advantage decreased OD gives. In maps where notes are spaced close in duration, distance, or both, you should get the extra pp as the increased quantity of various visible features requires better reading efficiency.

Zozimoto wrote:

How about measuring Note Density?
you did not read
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