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[Proposal] Clarification on Song Content Rules

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Total Posts
47
Shohei Ohtani
Topic Starter
Shohei Ohtani
So last night I got banned for uploading a song with explicit content. As I've mapped songs with explicit lyrics before, I was really shocked by this.

So after talking with support team about this and getting things all squared away, I think it's important to sort of have a legitimate discussion about this kind of stuff so people aren't really stuck in a similar situation as I am.

CURRENT RULE:
There must not be any obscene imagery in the background/storyboard/video content. This includes nudity, near-nudity, sexual references, violence, drug abuse, etc. Keep things PG, suitable for ages 12+. Images should be on a level that can be displayed on all-audience TV, on public signage, and of nature that does not require censoring in any country.
PROPOSED RULE:
Maps cannot contain lyrics or imagery containing obscene content. This includes, but is not limited to:
[*]Sexual Content
[*]Drug Usage / Paraphanilia
[*]Intent to Harm Oneself or Others
[*]Excessive Explicit Language
I'd be really interested to having a discussion about this, because it IS very ambigious at the moment, and I really don't want anyone to get stuck in my situation because there's not something out there defining what is explicit, ESPECIALLY when there are a fair number of maps already ranked that have these sorts of subjects.
Pachiru
osu! Alumni
2,957 posts
Joined June 2013
Pachiru
I also agree that the rule about NSFW stuffs should be clarified, cause actually the word "NSFW" is quite unclear.
Shohei Ohtani
Topic Starter
Shohei Ohtani
okay so is this going to happen or
Kibbleru
osu! Alumni
5,844 posts
Joined August 2013
Kibbleru
gotta go contact oko about this
Shohei Ohtani
Topic Starter
Shohei Ohtani
Then do it
Okoratu
Nomination Assessment Team / Elite Nominator
4,911 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoratu
The community rules already take care of that 

We are an all-ages community. This means that 18+/NSFW (not safe for work) content such as drug use or topics of a sexual nature are not welcome here. Exceptions are made where appropriate for this, but generally speaking, keep it clean.


We can either adopt this as a rule there as well or clarify this further, allowing to add a label for suggestive topics should be kept though because there's a vast majority of cases where songs have underlying innuendos that go over your head unless you aren't in the know
Shohei Ohtani
Topic Starter
Shohei Ohtani
Late reply, sorry, didn't wanna type a big things while I was out on vacation.

Anyways, I feel that it SHOULD be a rule, mostly BECAUSE of the explanation of NSFW background images. Having this specific rule kind of provides and implication that that's the only thing that's not allowed. Especially since that's how things were before I was banned, I think it helps to have it explained.

Plus it'd be really nice to sort of have a consistent set of rules for this, especially regarding mapping. If my song has a curse word in it, do I have to change it? Does the IMPLICATION of sexual themes (such as https://osu.ppy.sh/s/692315 ) get blocked, or is it just the explicit mention.

I know the general rule of thumb is "ask the QAT" but in my experience of asking the QAT it's been HUGELY varied as to what flies and what doesn't fly when it comes to content appropriateness. I'd love to eliminate this Loctav-era idea of intentional ambiguity and realy push for specific guidelines so that all of the QAT can give a consistent yes/no when I'm asking questions (or at least make the grey area a LOT smaller than it currently is right now)
abraker
Global Moderator
8,295 posts
Joined July 2014
abraker
There must not be any obscene imagery in the background/storyboard/video content. This includes nudity, near-nudity, sexual references, violence, drug abuse, etc. Keep things PG, suitable for ages 12+. Images should be on a level that can be displayed on all-audience TV, on public signage, and of nature that does not require censoring in any country.
Just noticed this. 12+ implies 12 or older. Should be "suitable for ages 12 and younger" for it to be PG.
Shohei Ohtani
Topic Starter
Shohei Ohtani
nice
Shohei Ohtani
Topic Starter
Shohei Ohtani
so what's the scoop
Okoratu
Nomination Assessment Team / Elite Nominator
4,911 posts
Joined May 2012
Okoratu
My go at this if we implement the rule that applies to chatting in general into mapping:
Maps must not contain any 18+/NSFW content such as drug use or topics of overly sexual nature. This includes but is not limited to excessively explicit language, overly suggestive sounds in the song itself as well as suggestive imagery in the background. Keep things PG, suitable for children up to the age of 12 years.


hmm somehow this seems too strict for what our current guidelines are for handling this content ? I've only seen and nuked things that are WAYY out there in the fucked up realm
Myxo
osu! Alumni
3,103 posts
Joined December 2012
Myxo
"drug use" you probably mean "drug abuse"? i mean come on
otherwise seems good and not very restrictive, though i would cut out the "excessively explicit language" or clarify it further because most artists use this as a stylistic and artistic tool. for example most mainstream hip hop would fall under "excessively explicit language" to me but is far from being rated 12+
qwr
111 posts
Joined August 2013
qwr

CDFA wrote:

PROPOSED RULE:
Maps cannot contain lyrics or imagery containing obscene content. This includes, but is not limited to:
[*]Sexual Content
[*]Drug Usage / Paraphanilia
[*]Intent to Harm Oneself or Others
[*]Excessive Explicit Language
I'd be really interested to having a discussion about this, because it IS very ambigious at the moment, and I really don't want anyone to get stuck in my situation because there's not something out there defining what is explicit, ESPECIALLY when there are a fair number of maps already ranked that have these sorts of subjects.
I hope this is bg-wise and not lyrics-wise. Because I know you said already there are maps with these kinds of lyrics (would Cocaine pass? This map has a syringe, is that drug paraphanillia?) but the rules you stated are vague too. I wonder if Go to Church would be allowed under your rules. Or perhaps Biggie's famous Notorious Thugs. The Go to Church map definitely has drug use and intent to harm oneself or others.


I think if Youtube allows all the things you listed, then osu should too, as nothing is stopping any 10 year old from going on youtube and finding these. My opinion is osu shouldn't be a kiddie filter just because Puritanical American views would like to believe that such things work.
qwr
111 posts
Joined August 2013
qwr
Also this is a 2008 map but reminder it exists https://osu.ppy.sh/s/933 NSFW
Shohei Ohtani
Topic Starter
Shohei Ohtani
When previously talking about stuff, the general agreement in the QAT was "lmao we're going to impletement rules just from this point on instead of judging past maps off of current rules"

Also, I think that while the rules SEEM strict, it kind of makes sense. I think just HAVING that written up would be MONUMENTALLY more helpful. Especially with having EXCESSIVE language put on there.

In an IDEAL sense it would be nice to sort of have a guideline for what's considered excessive. I'm not saying "you're allowed 10 curse words", but maybe some examples for the BN / QAT to have about what's good or not good.

For instance, would THIS be considered innapropriate?: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/150639 . From what I've asked some other BNs, they've said it's fine, even though it has a few curses and implications of sexual activity.

But so far I like it. That's sort of my thing, I'm fine with regulation and such, I just hate hate HATE this Loctav-era of thinking of "oh it's 'common sense' so it'll just be an unwritten rule but we're going to enforce it like it's a major rule but only sometimes", so I wanna make sure that if it's something that can get my map deleted and my account silenced / restricted, that it's there in plain text.
Myxo
osu! Alumni
3,103 posts
Joined December 2012
Myxo

CDFA wrote:

For instance, would THIS be considered innapropriate?: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/150639 . From what I've asked some other BNs, they've said it's fine, even though it has a few curses and implications of sexual activity.
did you really misspell "Kanye West" i think songs like these should be fine. it's what i mentioned before, the curses are just a stylistic tool and nobody really takes this seriously. also shit like this is on the radio and on tv anyway so what do we expect
Nitrous
1,206 posts
Joined October 2015
Nitrous

Myxomatosis wrote:

CDFA wrote:

For instance, would THIS be considered innapropriate?: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/150639 . From what I've asked some other BNs, they've said it's fine, even though it has a few curses and implications of sexual activity.
did you really misspell "Kanye West" i think songs like these should be fine. it's what i mentioned before, the curses are just a stylistic tool and nobody really takes this seriously. also shit like this is on the radio and on tv anyway so what do we expect
There are concerned people, specially those that are of parental age (and believe me there are those who still play this game). Its unethical to let an adolescent listen to obscene language, they might blame this game because of such things. My suggestion would be to add by just further emphasizing warnings (map descriptions are often ignored) such as adding +18 or nsfw tags and filter them out in beatmap searching would be better.
Shohei Ohtani
Topic Starter
Shohei Ohtani

Myxomatosis wrote:

CDFA wrote:

For instance, would THIS be considered innapropriate?: https://osu.ppy.sh/s/150639 . From what I've asked some other BNs, they've said it's fine, even though it has a few curses and implications of sexual activity.
did you really misspell "Kanye West" i think songs like these should be fine. it's what i mentioned before, the curses are just a stylistic tool and nobody really takes this seriously. also shit like this is on the radio and on tv anyway so what do we expect
well if you want to get super technical, American radio edits will blur out any curse words or slurs that are used. So it's important to also make that distinction, are we allowing SOME curse words, or are we just censoring EVERYTHING (which, seeing as we can still curse on the forum and in-game, I think we're more inclined to go with the first)

Nitrous wrote:

There are concerned people, specially those that are of parental age (and believe me there are those who still play this game). Its unethical to let an adolescent listen to obscene language, they might blame this game because of such things. My suggestion would be to add by just further emphasizing warnings (map descriptions are often ignored) such as adding +18 or nsfw tags and filter them out in beatmap searching would be better.
I actually made a suggestion to have an in-game notation of NSFW stuff put in place before, or having the ability to filter maps that are marked as NSFW. peppy, in the way that he sometimes does when he doesn't wanna do stuff, was like "okay get me a list and I'll do it." So me and some other guys provided a list to him. And he's like "a"

However at this point I feel that making a guideline on the actual ranking criteria would be more effective than putting on a tag AFTER the fact.
Shohei Ohtani
Topic Starter
Shohei Ohtani
So we need to fucking talk about this.

https://osu.ppy.sh/s/716630

Apparently this shit is a fine pass even though we just spend all of this fucking time talking about "oh yeah content rules oh yeah we gotta be safe for the kids" like are you fucking serious.

This is a huge fuck you to me as well as others in the community who have been screwed over by these sorts of rules as well as these vague guidelines as to what is appropriate and inappropriate.

I'd very much like to see the QAT justify this being allowed to get a fair pass while maps that I've submitted put me on the verge of getting banned from the game.

THIS is why I decide to put so much god damned effort into this kind of shit. THIS kind of shit, so that I don't have to constantly hope "oh god is this QAT going to hate my map or will they love it", it'll be a simple "this is what makes your map unrankable." This subjective "oh we'll decide on it" shit didn't work when Loctav was around, and it's obvious that it's not working now.

So let's see this get justified.
qwr
111 posts
Joined August 2013
qwr
There's already a loved version from more than a year ago https://osu.ppy.sh/s/288162
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