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BABYMETAL - Road of Resistance

posted
Total Posts
129
Kroytz
703 posts
Joined February 2013
Topic Starter
Kroytz
This beatmap was submitted using in-game submission on Sunday, July 2, 2017 at 4:28:26 PM

Artist: BABYMETAL
Title: Road of Resistance
Tags: dragonforce herman li sam totman ktsune suzuka nakamoto yui mizuno moa kikuchi su-metal yuimetal moametal
BPM: 199
Filesize: 11083kb
Play Time: 05:09
Difficulties Available:
  1. Crimson Rebellion (7.63 stars, 2074 notes)
Download: BABYMETAL - Road of Resistance
Information: Scores/Beatmap Listing
---------------

The beacon fire turns the eastern sky crimson
It's our new guide
That heralds the end of isolation in darkness


<< PREV | FIRST | NEXT >>

Last edited by Kroytz , edited 29 times in total.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
02:40:568 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - Where did I see this pattern from :thinking:
02:51:105 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - ^
00:29:304 (1,2,3,4) - ^

Feels like a tribute to my version but with bigger jumps xd.
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
Okay honestly, I don't want to start drama but... going through the map again, it really feels like Taki mapped my original version, and then Mitsuha mapped Kroytz' version. Here's some side by side comparisons:

00:55:203 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11) -
Comparison
00:29:304 -
~

02:03:105 -
~

02:40:568 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - Please, this is my favorite pattern, ;c
~
~
02:41:739 (1) - The first circle is in the exact same coordinate too. Mine is 93||73, so is Kroytz :S.
02:46:422 -
~
02:51:105 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - ^
~
02:56:373 (1) -
~
03:14:520 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) -
~
03:47:300 (1,2,3,4) -
~
04:02:081 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5) -
~
04:04:422 (2,3,4,5,6) -
~
04:11:885 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1) -
~
04:14:227 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,1,2,3,4) -
~
04:38:812 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) -
~
04:59:990 (1) -
jk


RevengeZ wrote:

no more monstrata!11!!!
[]

Sorry man, this feels too similar x__x
Kroytz
703 posts
Joined February 2013
Topic Starter
Kroytz
lolwut, there's some uncanny similarities I'll admit, more than half of them were not intentional tho so please don't flame. the glaring ones like the ladder I can say maybe was uh, "inspired". But if it means that much, I can change that one for you monstrata it's not problem.
Last edited by Kroytz , edited 1 time in total.
nibs
75 posts
Joined February 2015
nibs
this isn't "copy and pasted"

get off your high horse Monstrata.

there's only a few ways you can map a song that's 99% death metal or whatever it's called. go get a bunch of experienced mappers and give them a dragonforce song, you'll get a few maps that look the same.

"omg this guy made streams and sliders in a place in the song where i put them omg he stole it"
Last edited by nibs , edited 2 times in total.
Illyasviel
218 posts
Joined July 2013
Illyasviel
Please remember to stay civil and respectful (including your memes). Otherwise someone might lock this thread.
Last edited by Illyasviel , edited 1 time in total.
kekleon_xD
1 post
Joined May 2016
kekleon_xD
in all honesty i actually thought i was looking at the monstrata map up until the last 2 minutes
Lemur
12 posts
Joined December 2015
Lemur
Tbh there's nothing wrong with copying some elements of an other map, but mentioning it in the map description would have been better.
But thats only the opinion of a noob :')

Still team Kroytz ftw
Seijiro
osu! Alumni
3,438 posts
Joined April 2013
Seijiro
That's not how we discuss a map.

Locking for the time being, contact a GMT if you need it unlocked for something actually "useful" to the map.



EDIT:
cleaned up the unrelated stuff from the thread (4 pages).
You guys should really think 10 times before posting, you know that.

Thread will remain locked, obviously
Net0
1,238 posts
Joined October 2014
Net0
How can you blame Kroytz for making a similar map considering that most maps from 2016/2017 are pretty much copy paste of each others?
Like there's a mapset that recently got pooped because its visual wasn't "polished" enough to look like another ranked version?! o.O
Pls stop with the comparisions and face reality. All maps soon will be copy paste polished like, thanks to the mindset of the current modding/mapping community. Shiirn already warned ppl about this. Also, this is not the place for such comments. This is for modding mostly and sometimes a bit of chat with the mapper.

[General]
  1. Tags; You could add kawaii metal. Some use it to refer to this musical style. Especially babymetal.
  2. There’s a lot of inherented points at the same time; http://puu.sh/tNc5h.png
  3. Unsnapped objects 04:17:957 (4,5) -
[Crimson Rebellion ]
  1. There’s a missing stream sounds in a lot of patterns in the first kiai here 01:08:885 - between this two 01:08:812 (6,7) -; 01:10:715 (3,4) -;01:11:154 (5,6) -;01:11:373 - . I think that either you wanted it to be a more friendly start without many streams mapped or maybe you want to keep the pattern wise jump flow intentionally. Just mentioning this to suggest you to maybe make this more stream like since your map appeal are streams mostly.

  2. This pattern 01:09:837 (5,6,7,8,9) - currently works visually blanketing this object 01:10:422 (1) - , but I believe that 01:10:129 (9) – could work better visually if it was positioned as one the circles of this star you have used here 01:10:276 (10,1,2,3) - .
  3. I don’t get why lowering spacing here 01:12:764 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - works better than what you have done before 01:02:227 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - . At first you solo works with a consistent spacing and then changes into kick sliders that speeds up the cursor movement. On the previous pattern I’ve mentioned you have done low spacing streams with less emphasis. I kinda get it it’s a personal perspective that the guitar could work with less intensity at this part 01:12:764 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) – but in real terms, it’s just that the sounds are not so acute but feels excessive the way you have lowered it. Especially considering the contrast that the following jumps 01:13:934 (1,2,3,1,2,3,1,2) – have with this stream.
  4. This could fit better 01:26:081 (2) - into this pattern 01:26:081 (2,4,6) - if positioned in x:227 y:359 to make it equidistant.
  5. I don’t really see why overlapping this 02:23:812 (12,13) - . If it’s a kick slider pattern idea 02:23:885 (13,14) – this seems off compared to the other ones 02:15:617 (6,7,8,9,8,9,9,10,12,13) - . Here’s a suggestion http://puu.sh/tNbbf.jpg but do it however you want.
  6. Don’t do it 02:40:568 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - . Looks great and spacing emphasis is good, however you can avoid this pattern mainly because this could be mapped with any other kick slider pattern without causing commotion with the community because it’s pretty similar to the other ranked version and this is the only part that I felt like commenting over this “issue”. Like this idea here 02:51:105 (1,2,3,4) – but horizontally mapped instead of vertical for example.
  7. This slider end 02:56:373 (1) - could be pointing at the next stream instead of how it is now. Just a simple copy paste ctrol+H and replace imo works great. http://puu.sh/tNbIF.jpg

It’s a really well done map. Pretty polished and shows you had a lot of effort into its aesthetic. I really like the fact that you didn’t spike the difficulty as much as the other ranked version. We can see some pretty spaced streams early on the map and that helps you getting a more consistently wise map. Unlike many people think, this mapset actually adds a good different experience compared to the other version especially because this one is harder.

Best of luck o/
Last edited by Net0 , edited 1 time in total.
Seijiro
osu! Alumni
3,438 posts
Joined April 2013
Seijiro
I hope there won't be any more drama or memery in here.

Don't make me warn you with a silence please, it is not worth the game, trust me.
Hata-tan
51 posts
Joined September 2011
Hata-tan
I am not a modder so I can only say superficial stuff about the map.

- I like that this map is, even though some things are blatantly copied, manages to create a different "challenge" unlike it's predecessor.
This RoR map puts more emphasis in the whole process of the map, instead of just OVERemphasizing one part and then calling it "Finale"
It's catered towards consistency and a steady progress of music. Theres no like real bpm changes in the song, so it is obvious that the difficulty should be quite consistent in order to properly work. This map has done that. Well done.

But I have to admit that in the current mapping I miss something which has been done ages ago and completely forgotten.
How about using Sliderstreams again? (I mean having long streams and then putting repeat sliders in between, maybe when the guitars suddenly switch rhythm?)
(Like in old maps like Rubikscube, Ascension to heaven)

They could fit here and would provide something unique over the monstrata version. I also dislike how curvy your spaced stream gets, but I guess that is whats supposed to create the challenge in that part? I have to say that just from the looks of it your finale is easier than monstratas.

Fix the obvious "slip-ups" where you stole things and then this map looks fine to continue the process :P
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn
The problem here isn't that there's "copying" going on, but that somehow a mapper's creativity is so inherently limited in scope that it feels "wrong" to map any particular set of a music track any differently from "the best" way.


Monstrata is extremely skilled at figuring out the "most natural" way to represent the music in a beatmap. This makes for very pleasing maps to play, and ones that people find very easy as well. Hence his popularity.

But when you get right down to the details of individual musical tracks, you find that there is

a

lot

of the same shit going on.

When you figure out "the best" way to represent a 5-roll, a cascade pattern, and do nothing but that, and (looking at you, irreversible) tell other people to do nothing but that, you're going to end up with extremely visually similar maps, until you reach a point where "the best" way to map is unequivocally going to be similar to how Monstrata maps it, because he's good at that style.


Whether Kroytz was using Monstrata's mapping as a reference, a direct inspiration, or even just as the only way he knows how to map (take a look at Ascension to Heaven - it's also extremely plain and uninspired, but effective), is irrelevant in the end.



Ya'll only have yourselves to blame. You like and encourage one particular style, then when it starts taking over, you have the audacity to complain. I've seen it all over and nary a half dozen people actually tried to do anything about it. The rest stomped them down, all the while bitching that every map "feels the same".



EDIT: also because im bored i might mod this later just to get some sick kd to pretend to be alive
Net0
1,238 posts
Joined October 2014
Net0

Shiirn wrote:

The problem here isn't that there's "copying" going on, but that somehow a mapper's creativity is so inherently limited in scope that it feels "wrong" to map any particular set of a music track any differently from "the best" way.


Monstrata is extremely skilled at figuring out the "most natural" way to represent the music in a beatmap. This makes for very pleasing maps to play, and ones that people find very easy as well. Hence his popularity.

But when you get right down to the details of individual musical tracks, you find that there is

a

lot

of the same shit going on.

When you figure out "the best" way to represent a 5-roll, a cascade pattern, and do nothing but that, and (looking at you, irreversible) tell other people to do nothing but that, you're going to end up with extremely visually similar maps, until you reach a point where "the best" way to map is unequivocally going to be similar to how Monstrata maps it, because he's good at that style.


Whether Kroytz was using Monstrata's mapping as a reference, a direct inspiration, or even just as the only way he knows how to map (take a look at Ascension to Heaven - it's also extremely plain and uninspired, but effective), is irrelevant in the end.



Ya'll only have yourselves to blame. You like and encourage one particular style, then when it starts taking over, you have the audacity to complain. I've seen it all over and nary a half dozen people actually tried to do anything about it. The rest stomped them down, all the while bitching that every map "feels the same".



EDIT: also because im bored i might mod this later just to get some sick kd to pretend to be alive
Funny how I just mentioned you a few minutes back in my mod talking about the same thing and then you show up \o/
Weber
1,254 posts
Joined May 2015
Weber
hi im shiirn and i like to be incredibly inconsistent with my paragraph spacing

00:04:709 (1,2,3) - Going back towards (3) at that angle from (1) looks a little funny, I would rotate (2) anti-clockwise to make it a little better: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/7227562

00:41:600 (1,1,1) - Might work better visually pitch-wise if you ctrl-j this, since the pitch is kind of descending.
Akali
639 posts
Joined November 2012
Akali
Similarily to Monstrata's Zensei (or whatever that was called) map with two almost identical extras this is a theme that fits the song. It features Dragonforce's guitar player, Herman Li, and as we know Dragonforce makes songs that are basically the same. Sorry but if it's a theme Kroytz wants to follow then no one should complain because I think it's really cool and creative reference.
Shiguma
476 posts
Joined May 2014
Shiguma

Shiirn wrote:

The problem here isn't that there's "copying" going on, but that somehow a mapper's creativity is so inherently limited in scope that it feels "wrong" to map any particular set of a music track any differently from "the best" way.


Monstrata is extremely skilled at figuring out the "most natural" way to represent the music in a beatmap. This makes for very pleasing maps to play, and ones that people find very easy as well. Hence his popularity.

But when you get right down to the details of individual musical tracks, you find that there is

a

lot

of the same shit going on.

When you figure out "the best" way to represent a 5-roll, a cascade pattern, and do nothing but that, and (looking at you, irreversible) tell other people to do nothing but that, you're going to end up with extremely visually similar maps, until you reach a point where "the best" way to map is unequivocally going to be similar to how Monstrata maps it, because he's good at that style.


Whether Kroytz was using Monstrata's mapping as a reference, a direct inspiration, or even just as the only way he knows how to map (take a look at Ascension to Heaven - it's also extremely plain and uninspired, but effective), is irrelevant in the end.



Ya'll only have yourselves to blame. You like and encourage one particular style, then when it starts taking over, you have the audacity to complain. I've seen it all over and nary a half dozen people actually tried to do anything about it. The rest stomped them down, all the while bitching that every map "feels the same".



EDIT: also because im bored i might mod this later just to get some sick kd to pretend to be alive
Some elaboration on this

I think it's fine to have generic maps but I wish it'd be easier to rank more 'unsafe' or gimmicky maps. It feels like people are afraid of change
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn
For more personal elaboration:


When I compare Kroytz' and Monstrata's respective paths of least roads of resistance, I just see generic mapping taken to its logical extremes.

The song is hardly inspiring of unique and interesting jump styles, and the streams on both follow very similar roll styles. There's only so many creative liberties you can make with this track if you want to keep continuously using "the most natural" patterns and flow. Selecting similar, or even the same, representation isn't plagiarism any more than it is to paraphrase wikipedia in your book report.

It's more arguable that they're both just extremely generic maps, and generic maps are going to look alike and play alike because they both take cues from the same, effective mapping style. Which any monkey can learn given enough time, it's just boring as hell once you get used to it, to the point where even Monstrata starts to take refuge in retarded self-referential meme gimmicks to entertain himself.

EDIT: thanks to that handy-dandy youtube video directly comparing the two, i was able to come to a good conclusion

i think kroytz did better
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
There are a lot of ways to express generic sounds. For any given rhythm I give you, I can easily think up at least 20 different patterns that play well just off the top of my head. Your "generic mapping/most natural" argument doesn't work here because given any circumstance, there are always going to be multiple ways to map a certain rhythm.

04:04:422 (2,3,4,5,6) - For example, comes after a full measure break. Tell me how many ways are there to arrange the pattern? How many positions are possible? You literally have the entire screen to play with due to that full measure break. Yet, the kickslider is linear, its pointing in the same slanted down-right angle, and leading upward to a 5 note stream that's slightly curved. The stream also has the same visual spacing. - oh, and the entire pattern is located at the same area of the screen: the bottom left.

Your observation that modern maps follow a more generic style is indeed accurate. But it's not valid in dealing with instances where an entire pattern looks almost identical in multiple perspectives (aesthetic, spacing, flow, rhythm, location). Like I said, given any circumstance, there are always going to be multiple ways to map a certain rhythm. Why, with so many options, are these patterns still so similar? Certainly it can't be because this is the "most comfortable" pattern because there are many patterns that are just as comfortable.
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn
A lot of the "direct copies" you refer to are brief snippets of small combos, and, believe it or not, are rather limited in the most effective means of mapping that musical pattern.

Take a look at the youtube video that directly compares the two. You'll see that kroytz makes massive divergences in the streams and rhythmic choices for the more multi-layered areas of the track. In fact, I hazard to say he actually picks more natural and flowing rhythm and pattern choices more often, since your skill at streams is far below your skill at structure, while streams are kroytz' strength.

It's only when there's only one, really fucking obvious main rhythm that the styles get (really) similar, and guess what? When you want to keep natural flow going with basically one strict rhythm to follow, you're going to end up with similar patterns. Angles can't have too many liberties taken with them to keep flow, the spacing can't be too vastly different just for the sake of being different, and the rhythm structure is largely forced to be the same.

It's quite clear that some of the combos in particular are either direct references to your map or outright mimics - but that is hardly unusual in this community and is rarely frowned upon, especially when the rest of the map is quite clearly of their own design. Especially when it's the best way.

I just think you've become blinded by your own standards to think that "The most safe way" is synonymous with "Your way".
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