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Alfakyun. x Camellia - calling

posted
Total Posts
256
show more
Meyrink
728 posts
Joined February 2014
Meyrink
Fixed

SPOILER
osu file format v14

[General]
AudioFilename: audio.mp3
AudioLeadIn: 0
PreviewTime: 79893
Countdown: 0
SampleSet: Soft
StackLeniency: 0.5
Mode: 0
LetterboxInBreaks: 0
WidescreenStoryboard: 1

[Editor]
Bookmarks: 3272,123434,231595
DistanceSpacing: 0.6
BeatDivisor: 4
GridSize: 4
TimelineZoom: 2.4

[Metadata]
Title:calling
TitleUnicode:calling
Artist:+a / Alfakyun. / Camellia
ArtistUnicode:＋α／あるふぁきゅん。／ かめりあ
Creator:ProfessionalBox
Version:Kalirink's Andantino
Source:アンダンテ
Tags:Andante WEB小説 novel OPソング  2nd Album αβ叫喚 歌ってみた utattemita probox fuccho toybot aia doormat frey haruto [ joey ] meyrink kalibe asahina momoko sing kibbleru flask vinxis omar kamal vinix mishima yurara rizia wkyik thanks irreversible kawaiwkyik Haruto_aizawa eLy Anxient
BeatmapID:1171696
BeatmapSetID:523558

[Difficulty]
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CircleSize:4
OverallDifficulty:8.5
ApproachRate:9.2
SliderMultiplier:1.86
SliderTickRate:1

[Events]
//Background and Video events
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//Break Periods
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//Storyboard Layer 0 (Background)
//Storyboard Layer 1 (Fail)
//Storyboard Layer 2 (Pass)
//Storyboard Layer 3 (Foreground)
//Storyboard Sound Samples

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412,157,130975,1,4,0:3:0:0:
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_handholding
3,109 posts
Joined April 2014
_handholding
did you consult a theasaurus when naming these diffs?
ProfessionalBox
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
771 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
ProfessionalBox

Pentori wrote:

re
[General]
theres no need for a space between ／ and かめりあ cos full length bracket Fixed

[Larghissimo]
Fixed all

[Aia's Grave]
Fixed all

[Doormat's Lento]
Fixed all

[Anxient's Larghetto]
Fixed all


[Haruto's Adagietto]
Fixed all

[eLy's Andante]
Fixed all

[Kibbleru's Allegro]
Fixed all

[Flasxis's Vivace]
Fixed all

[wkyik's Allegrissimo]
Fixed all

[Prestissimo]

ProfessionalBox wrote:
Pentori wrote:
00:27:758 (4,1) - its quite jarring to skip the strong upbeat 00:27:920 - imo, you aren't really emphasising anything specific on 00:28:083 - either I'm doing this to further emphasize the change from mixed rhythm of kicks and melody to pure melody following for the part after it which is 00:28:083 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - For me this feels completely natural and I do this on multiple occasions throughout the map 00:32:299 (1,2) - 00:36:839 (3,1) - 00:38:947 (1,2) - for example (I'm a huge fan of 3/4 sliders if I'm honest).
ehh, but the further examples you gave aren't skipping over a loud ass snare + vocal beat, so i was ok with them. in this case though, the extended slider usage is really unintuitive Changing this slider into a 1/4 rhythm slider instead of the extension makes literally no difference playingwise and feels even more out of place imo so I really would like to keep this slider as for me it makes perfect sense and I don't recall anyone else except you finding this feeling out of place.


Fixed all the rest
Pentori
1,157 posts
Joined November 2015
Pentori
rebub
Shiirn
2,896 posts
Joined August 2010
Shiirn
placeholder
no
13:07 ProfessionalBox: do i smell a mod incoming :thinking:
13:08 Shiirn: it's nowhere near as fucked up as i've been implied but at the same time you make very dumb choices in the name of being "interesting"
13:08 Shiirn: and it's quite inconsistent due to that
13:09 ProfessionalBox: do you have like a a group where you discuss infamous maps or what LOL
13:09 Shiirn: people talk to me all the time about random crap and stuff they find annoying
13:09 ProfessionalBox: wow really?
13:10 Shiirn: how did you think i manage to be present for all kinds of drama or events while barely paying attention to the game?
13:10 Shiirn: people tell me
13:10 Shiirn: LOL
13:10 ProfessionalBox: I mean
13:11 ProfessionalBox: I literally thought that all drama in osu begins wherever you want it to begin by saying something in a map thread
13:11 Shiirn: dam
13:11 Shiirn: well mostly people come to me and imply/discuss maps with me and for the sake of entertainment i often "lead the charge"
13:12 Shiirn: like this map for example, your map, is obviously overdone, overkill, full of weird inconsistencies and made up rhythms, even though it's nice and polished and clean and "es gud mep"
13:13 Shiirn: i think it's got potential but nobody'd listen to my rants anyway so im just curious to see what the fuss is about
13:13 ProfessionalBox: I mean
13:14 ProfessionalBox: I guess I'm trying to lay low to avoid someone who wants to keep me from ranking it from showing up
13:14 ProfessionalBox: because
13:14 ProfessionalBox: i can't be bothered
13:14 ProfessionalBox: to deal with the drama
13:14 Shiirn: i feel that this map is a long way from being ranked because it's fucking awful for a 7*
13:14 ProfessionalBox: really?
13:14 Shiirn: most 7* maps focus on being easily playable and as such are extremely plain and obviously structured
13:15 Shiirn: and i applaud you for trying to go beyond that
13:15 ProfessionalBox: I mean if I go over 7 stars
13:15 ProfessionalBox: it better have more than 1 hard part
13:15 Shiirn: let me be frank
13:15 ProfessionalBox: sure
13:15 Shiirn: the issues lie with the inconsistencies and unpredictability of the map's interpretation of the song
13:16 ProfessionalBox: is this the part where I say its my style
13:16 ProfessionalBox: ok jokes aside
13:16 Shiirn: there are multiple points where you map interjections in the music - something camellia does a fuckload - completely differently
13:16 Shiirn: generally speaking
13:16 Shiirn: you want to at least be somewhat related to the other points in the map
13:17 Shiirn: be it flow, click rhythm, or even using identical patterns just with some differences
13:17 Shiirn: but these take each one and just do something completely unique
13:17 Shiirn: which is fine and good for a relatively lower difficulty map
13:17 Shiirn: but just becomes unfair and frustrating for 7* and above
13:18 ProfessionalBox: I've had the audience that this map is intended for playing this and generally most read the map without issues
13:18 ProfessionalBox: also it might just be because I made the map but
13:18 Shiirn: Just because it's playable doesn't mean it's good
13:18 ProfessionalBox: generally all my decisions feel natural for me
13:18 Shiirn: i'm sure you're aware of that
13:18 ProfessionalBox: yeah of course
13:18 Shiirn: let's take a random example
13:19 ProfessionalBox: I'm just saying that I haven't seen people that can play this map properly having pointed out stuff feeling out of place or unfair
13:19 Shiirn: 01:49:650 (4,1,2,1) - vs 01:55:326 (3,1,2,3) - and the like
13:19 ProfessionalBox: just a second let me open this up
13:19 Shiirn: generally speaking the higher the star rating goes the more obviously consistent you want to be
13:20 Shiirn: what it boils down to is that mappers and modders, generally speaking, are much better at "feeling something is wrong" without actually being able to explain themselves or notice what is wrong
13:20 ProfessionalBox: ahh I have to say that in my opinion the higher the star rating goes the more elements I can and should have
13:20 Shiirn: and people often find maps they "feel is wrong" or "feels like a shit map"
13:20 ProfessionalBox: but I do understand where people are coming from with the consistency
13:20 Shiirn: and come to me because i'm uhh, avoiding sounding arrogant
13:20 Shiirn: pretty good at actually explaining what's causing those feelings
13:21 ProfessionalBox: Yeah don't worry that sounds reasonable to me haha
13:21 Shiirn: basically the higher you get in difficulty
13:21 Shiirn: the more you need to worry about concepts and being able to explain yourself to the downies if you feel you've genuinely got a point to make
13:21 ProfessionalBox: yup
13:21 ProfessionalBox: I've noticed that
13:21 Shiirn: and i don't mean just star rating either, but star rating is an obvious metric and as such it's very uhhh
13:22 Shiirn: well, let's call it "a point of discussion"
13:22 ProfessionalBox: more like
13:22 ProfessionalBox: "a target to aim at"
13:22 ProfessionalBox: xd
13:22 Shiirn: what my personal feeling on the map boils down to is: What do you personally want to provide to the player?
13:22 Shiirn: from what i'm seeing here
13:22 Shiirn: "being really hard" doesn't seem to be an outright objective here
13:22 ProfessionalBox: variety, good movements
13:23 ProfessionalBox: uh
13:23 ProfessionalBox: Well basically fun/enjoyment
13:23 ProfessionalBox: I think the movements here feel natural
13:23 ProfessionalBox: and that is most important for me
13:23 ProfessionalBox: and in the second half
13:23 Shiirn: i'm concerned less with the movements, you've got that down pat as far as angles, flow, momentum, and the like go
13:23 ProfessionalBox: a consistent challenge becomes more obvious as the song gets more intense
13:24 ProfessionalBox: but I wanted to make it balanced in a sense that
13:24 ProfessionalBox: all of the stuff after the break is basically hard consistently
13:24 Shiirn: and more with the rhythms you use and the inconsistencies in click patterns, which are what people seem to find uhhh.... weird
13:25 Shiirn: 03:19:163 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - also this section should not be kiai
13:26 ProfessionalBox: I've grown accustomed to my current rhythms so I can't really feel them being bad but the reason why I might have made what seems to you like a poor rhythm decision in the first place is because of aesthetics
13:26 ProfessionalBox: I may have compromised something somewhere because of that
13:26 ProfessionalBox: You know how I love my visuals so
13:26 Shiirn: aesthetics can go fuck themselves on difficult maps
13:26 Shiirn: players aren't going to stare at pretty patterns to click them
13:27 Shiirn: for the final chorus
13:27 Shiirn: your offbeat focus is praiseworthy but 03:31:974 (5,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - this is very obviously an on-beat focus section
13:28 ProfessionalBox: i disagree here, if visuals are relevant in lower difficulty maps then they are as relevant in harder ones since difficulty of a map basically boils down to player skill
13:28 Shiirn: player skill has little to do with pretty patterns and polish; what players react to as their reaction times are forced to human limits
13:28 ProfessionalBox: this map isn't crossing that kind of border though
13:28 Shiirn: it isn't
13:29 ProfessionalBox: also for that offbeat focus
13:29 ProfessionalBox: the intent there is to have the melody on the furthest jump always
13:29 ProfessionalBox: 03:33:271 (2) - if you take this for example then it should be the most emphasized circle in this section
13:29 ProfessionalBox: and that it is by being the largest jump
13:30 ProfessionalBox: that was what I was going for
13:30 Shiirn: that's... uhm
13:30 Shiirn: nice and all
13:30 Shiirn: but the new combos and structure of the paired circles ruins that because it just makes it look like 1,2,1,2,1,2 jumps *which it is*
13:31 Shiirn: do me a favor
13:31 Shiirn: 03:31:974 (5,1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2,1) - take these notes
13:31 Shiirn: and put a new combo on all the 2s and remove them from the 1s
13:31 Shiirn: basically put the ncs on the red ticks
13:31 Shiirn: and see how it changes the pattern all on its own
13:32 Shiirn: it makes the "well the bigger jumps are on the offbeat notes" absolutely obvious and clear to both player and modder that that's what you're going for
13:34 ProfessionalBox: I agree
13:35 ProfessionalBox: do you want to hear the reason why I made the nc pairing like it was
13:35 ProfessionalBox: you don't want to
13:35 ProfessionalBox: but I can tell
13:35 Shiirn: because onbeat is what you're used to seeing and its the standard way of doing it
13:35 ProfessionalBox: a e s t h e t i c s
13:35 Shiirn: right that bullshit
13:35 Shiirn: but anyway
13:35 ProfessionalBox: haha
13:35 Shiirn: having looked at the entire map i'm going to oversimplify the issues i feel it has preventing it from being "really cool"
13:36 ProfessionalBox: sure I'd appreciate that
13:36 Shiirn: namely, 1. during more plain 1/2 spammy kinds of melodies in the map, you're inconsistently taking liberties with click rhythms and sliders being 3/4 or 1/2 or 1/4 and the like. This occurs in other parts but is really, really glaringly obvious during the first chorus
13:37 Shiirn: where sliders would normally imply vocal focus because there's nothing really to "click and hold" during those sections but you oftentimes really ignore vocals for pretty 3/4 sliders and the like
13:38 Shiirn: if you were to either cut back on the more "free-spirited" patterns in the map, or make them consistent with the musical patterns, only idiots would really take issue and you can ignore them
13:38 Shiirn: but as it sits right now i feel that it's a valid issue that'd cockblock progress on the map
13:39 Shiirn: and 2. you tend to choose more aestheticly pleasing choices (e.g. the new combos i just mentioned) rather than the more functional - which is all well and good in lower difficulties, but feels out of place on a more challenging map
13:40 Shiirn: this doesn't make it unplayable, but it makes the map feel cheap and fake because it's trying to be fun to watch rather than fun to play
13:40 Shiirn: which i also feel is a valid issue that'd clamjam progress on ranking the map
13:41 ProfessionalBox: i wonder how many synonymes you have for the term "prevent"
13:41 Shiirn: i can make up as many as necessary on the spot, but since there's only those two i went for the gendered jokes
13:42 ProfessionalBox: xd
13:42 ProfessionalBox: Thanks, you certainly gave me something to think about
13:42 Shiirn: i don't feel like it's a bad map at all
13:42 ProfessionalBox: I'll say that this is my first time going above 6,7 star rating
13:42 ProfessionalBox: so I hadn't gave much thought to stuff like the visual choices of combos holding the map back etc
13:43 Shiirn: well mapping in general tends to be people who know better
13:43 ProfessionalBox: since it's basically something new for me
13:43 Shiirn: just beating up people who don't know better
13:43 Shiirn: and i find that weird
13:43 ProfessionalBox: as what comes to my usage of 3/4 sliders
13:43 Shiirn: very quick example
13:43 ProfessionalBox: This doesn't technically "justify" them but it should explain why they exist
13:43 Shiirn: 01:26:785 (1,2) - this is, by intent or on accident
13:44 Shiirn: very vocal-focused and fits vocal flow very well
13:44 ProfessionalBox: I tend to use 3/4 sliders a ton in all of my maps so I didn't go into this thinking that I shouldn't
13:44 ProfessionalBox: intent
13:44 ProfessionalBox: everytime that 3/4 lands on vocals
13:44 Shiirn: and you do that a lot
13:44 ProfessionalBox: its intentional
13:44 Shiirn: but
13:44 Shiirn: 01:33:110 (6) -
13:44 Shiirn: ?_?
13:45 ProfessionalBox: 01:33:110 (6) - I must have wanted to use this slidershape a ton right there
13:45 ProfessionalBox: hahaha
13:45 ProfessionalBox: I have initially thought that
13:45 ProfessionalBox: a shorter slider would be lackluster
13:45 Shiirn: 01:28:407 (2,3,4,5,6) - this also feels weird because while it's a good point to transition into a transitional area
13:46 Shiirn: it's a pattern that you rarely, if ever, use - that is, a 3/4 slider into a triple that's overmapped and white->red tick
13:46 Shiirn: which is weird because all of the triples in the chorus are red->white
13:46 Shiirn: and while that can be okay for variety, it's just weird at this level of "difficulty"
13:47 Shiirn: 01:38:623 (1,2,3) - also this is 1/6 if you didn't know/notice/whatever
13:48 ProfessionalBox: 01:28:569 (3) - mapping this shorter would ignore the vocals imo and 01:28:893 (4,5,6) - are here to fill a void that would otherwise force a singletap heavy pattern
13:48 ProfessionalBox: that is what I have thought while mapping it
13:48 ProfessionalBox: and I am generally really bad at singletap heavy patterns which is the reason why I tend to avoid them at all costs
13:48 Shiirn: right, i'm no stranger to the "should fill the rhythmic void" impulse
13:49 Shiirn: but in this area a singletap pattern would work quite well because it fits rhythmically and structurally as it leads into that stream
13:49 Shiirn: also if u wanna be cool
13:49 Shiirn: 01:29:866 -
13:49 Shiirn: this drumroll breakdown should be un-kiai'd
13:49 ProfessionalBox: yeah I can't deny it working
13:49 Shiirn: to allow for a buildup and burst
13:49 ProfessionalBox: it's just my lack of being able to make singletap patterns that I like
13:49 Shiirn: also keeps pattern with the choruses having a brief period in the middle with no kiai
13:50 Shiirn: which camellia likes to do
13:50 Shiirn: ....sometimes too much
13:51 ProfessionalBox: I actually have to leave now for like 30 minutes as I need to pick up my brother so I can't continue the conversation for now but if you still want to say something when I come back in 30 minutes I'd be glad to hear it
13:51 Shiirn: yeah mostly im just sharing my thoughts
13:51 Shiirn: i might post just for that sweet sweet kd but idk what you want to change if anything
13:51 ProfessionalBox: Always nice having these kind of conversations
13:51 Shiirn: these are what i call "campfire chats"
13:51 ProfessionalBox: hmm
13:51 Shiirn: where people just sit down and chat about the map with no real pressure to really force changes either way
13:51 ProfessionalBox: I'd rather you not post
13:51 Shiirn: i miss them very much
13:51 ProfessionalBox: if that's okay with you
13:52 Shiirn: 'CUZ RIP BUBBLE?
13:52 ProfessionalBox: I'll inform monstrata to hold back on checking
13:52 ProfessionalBox: as I make changes myself
13:52 ProfessionalBox: uh
13:52 ProfessionalBox: no its
13:52 ProfessionalBox: the shiirn effect
13:52 Shiirn: ...
13:52 Shiirn: rude
13:52 ProfessionalBox: a joke
13:52 ProfessionalBox: haha
13:52 ProfessionalBox: I guess if you want you can post
13:52 ProfessionalBox: I'll kudosu you for sure
13:52 Shiirn: well mostly
13:53 Shiirn: i'd explain that it's not really a bubblepop but more of a
13:53 ProfessionalBox: But I don't know what I would change
13:53 Shiirn: i'm sure i'll figure out some way to word it
13:53 Shiirn: LOL
13:53 ProfessionalBox: the combos for sure
13:53 ProfessionalBox: but gameplaywise I haven't made any desicions yet
13:53 ProfessionalBox: anyways I have to leave now
13:54 Shiirn: also
13:54 Shiirn: 00:55:812 (1,2) - wtf why e_E
Last edited by Shiirn , edited 1 time in total.
winber1
4,520 posts
Joined February 2010
winber1
placeholder
Nao Tomori
Nomination Assessment Team
3,089 posts
Joined December 2014
Nao Tomori
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Winnie
1,343 posts
Joined November 2013
Winnie
Look at this washed up BN above me.
Voxnola
729 posts
Joined May 2013
Voxnola
I'm here cause I follow sis. Haii
ProfessionalBox
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
771 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
ProfessionalBox
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neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,528 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat
Taking from the website http://project-andante.com/ (guessing that's where you got the info from as well)
The metadata is:
Artist: ＋α／あるふぁきゅん。
Romanised: +a/Alfakyun.
Song Title: calling

Place かめりあ Camellia in tags

The tracklist shows [Vocalist] / [Composer], those are separate fields over there:
SPOILER

As seen below:
SPOILER

SPOILER

There's like +α/あるふぁきゅん。 on Twitter and ＋α／あるふぁきゅん。 on YouTube but regardless, they show no spacing between what comes before and after the /
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
p/5861348

I had the same conversation with Lanturn about metadata, and we felt that using Camellia in Artist was fine. Also the space between the slashes (/) were cuz of the fullwidth character.

If anything, the official youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRoYo5OClM4 has Camellia listed, so there are alternative official metadata sources. I don't think one approach is definitely the correct one, but we can discuss it further. (In any case, imo the goal of metadata should be to properly credit the artist etc... but nowadays it's mostly about finding spaces and capitals that shouldn't be spaces etc...)
neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,528 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat

Monstrata wrote:

https://osu.ppy.sh/forum/p/5861348

I had the same conversation with Lanturn about metadata, and we felt that using Camellia in Artist was fine. Also the space between the slashes (/) were cuz of the fullwidth character.

If anything, the official youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRoYo5OClM4 has Camellia listed, so there are alternative official metadata sources. I don't think one approach is definitely the correct one, but we can discuss it further. (In any case, imo the goal of metadata should be to properly credit the artist etc... but nowadays it's mostly about finding spaces and capitals that shouldn't be spaces etc...)
That one uses x, which is not being used as the reference atm

SPOILER
in this case the implication could be more than just allowing this once for the sake of having all the names in, because this format of listing people beside a track is sometimes used in other albums, especially some doujin albums. What then? Allow it through even if it's [vocalist] / [arranger] / [lyricist] / [composer]?
If the original has certain spaces or capitalisation or symbols, regardless wouldn't it be good to follow what it has. You can still give the credits in the tags or description, but there should still be some order for what is placed in the artist field
Last edited by neonat , edited 1 time in total.
Doormat
2,049 posts
Joined September 2013
Doormat
dropping in to give my opinions too; i think the current metadata should be fine as well.

looking at the official website for the source, there appears to be two listings for the song.

this one lists the artist as ＋α／あるふぁきゅん。/ かめりあ

this one lists the artist as ＋α／あるふぁきゅん。

given that there seem to be two artist listings from the same site, i think either metadata should be okay
neonat
Beatmap Nominator
3,528 posts
Joined April 2012
neonat
All of that was being considered. Both still showed the separation of the vocalist and composer, and the artist should be placed with the singer.
SPOILER



The / in alfakyun is inclusive, it might be causing confusion to you here. The other / is separating the two fields, they are not including each other. It's the same way and format used elsewhere as well like here
SPOILER

ProfessionalBox
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
771 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
ProfessionalBox
I'll keep the metadata as it is for now but wont push it forward until this issue is solved
Doormat
2,049 posts
Joined September 2013
Doormat

neonat wrote:

All of that was being considered. Both still showed the separation of the vocalist and composer, and the artist should be placed with the singer.
SPOILER



The / in alfakyun is inclusive, it might be causing confusion to you here. The other / is separating the two fields, they are not including each other. It's the same way and format used elsewhere as well like here
SPOILER

ah, never thought about that, that's interesting to know. my bad then :?
Kyouren
5,583 posts
Joined October 2012
Kyouren
Since Youtube and (ofc) Official Website is rankable and valid, we can used:
  1. ＋α／あるふぁきゅん。x かめりあ
  2. ＋α／あるふぁきゅん。／かめりあ
  3. ＋α／あるふぁきゅん。
  4. ＋α／あるふぁきゅん。feat. かめりあ
@neonat: they say vocal by +a/Alfakyun. and composer (sound creator) by Camellia. For me, they all is valid and rankable.
MrMenda
301 posts
Joined December 2015
MrMenda
Qualify when?
ProfessionalBox
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
771 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
ProfessionalBox
tomorrow
Lasse
Beatmap Nominator
3,596 posts
Joined June 2011
Lasse

ProfessionalBox wrote:

Lasse wrote:

some issues I have with the top diff Let's hear them!

03:04:082 (1) - clicking this seems so strange with what's going on the song, deleting this and making 03:03:920 (1) - a 1/2 or 3/4 slider seems nicer This current patterning is a way of emphasizing the complete stop that the music has between 03:03:839 - 03:03:920 - by a large spacing from a slow slider going to a fast kickslider. The reason it is a kickslider is because it immediately shoots the cursor movement back into the large and fast slider velocity that the part before it had and the part after it has in order to make the increase in overall spacing feel natural right from the start. Anytyhing else but a kickslider would feel lackluster in my opinion. the issue is not the kickslider itself, but how you put a click on 03:04:082 -
which makes no sense at all as I stated before. also the kickslider doesn't have such an effect as nobody willl follow it, thus no "shooting the movement
back" or anything. things that would make more sense: higher sv + 1/2 or 3/4 slider, a gap on rhythm, ...
03:05:866 (3) - all important sounds are on the red tick, but you put a pretty pointless seeming extended slider over that? // 01:33:110 (6) - I talked about my usage of these 3/4 sliders when I replied to Pentori but basically I use them to emphasize the melody on the backgroun as it has a climax here and I don't want to ignore it. where? the blue tick? I don't think so

I also have no idea why things like 03:05:379 (3) - 03:06:352 (2) - etc. have to be fullscreen jumps, it's such a weak sound The fact that it is fullscreen doesn't really hold any extra value here as the whole part has relatively high spacing to follow the transpose the music has and the increase in intensity that the music brings with it because of that. So compared to rest of the spacing in this part this is normal spacing and consistent. it actually holds "extra" value by devaluing your other big jumps mapped to much more significant beats

overall rhythm choice overall often seems like you just throw multiple layers together losing pretty much all emphasis, like 03:07:974 (2,2) - are emphasizing vocals, but 03:07:487 (1) - ignores vocals, despite 03:07:487 (1,1,2,1,2) - being a rather repetitive thing, so using the same rhythm for all 3 parts of this would make more sense I think This is just my opinion and I can understand why this would cause some controversy but the reason I mix in all these rhythm choices is so that I wouldn't commit myself into following a single aspect in the song too much. If I commit myself into following just a single thing in music then the player starts to expect that in all parts of the song and it makes my mapping much more limited. If I mix all these elements in I can emphasize the parts that I find worth emphasizing much more naturally as the player isn't made to think that oh since this part comes up it must follow the vocals now or the melody now etc. The whole map is a proof of this way of thinking, I mix up the following of vocals and instruments a lot but I do it in a way that feels natural for me. I know it's a cliché thing to say that it's my way of mapping but it truly is and it's present in all of my maps that give me the option to do this (songs that have so many elements mixed in them that allow for this kind of change of things I follow instead of being so forcefully linear that they make me follow a certain aspect of a song from start to finish like vocals for example). Now to say why I do this precisely in this part is so that I can naturally add the piano sounds at 03:08:460 (1,2,3,4,1) - into the map because the player isn't expecting me to blindly follow the vocals and this makes for a much more interesting and fun to play part because of the piano being here. Apologies for the long explanation but I thought it was necessary to make you understand my perspective a bit more as you might find the reasoning behind my responses a bit lacking at times. doesn't make any sense to me but whatever

01:39:110 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,1) - this completely ignores the song with the pretty outstanding 3/4 rhythm of the drums, emphasis would be on http://lasse.s-ul.eu/RohA0gx2.jpg When I started to map this I chose to simplify all of these into streams that are a mix of the drums and the piano as I find it natural being a stream instead of a triplet into kickslider jumpspam. doesn't change the fact that it fails at representing the song properly
same goes for 00:22:731 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - and wherever else this happens
01:40:893 (1) - I have no idea what this is supposed to do. just leaving this empty would make it fit so much better // 00:24:353 (2) - This was intended to be like a built in "countdown" but since it isn't necessary and works without it I'll remove it.

02:26:785 (2) - things like this make no sense at all emphasis wise, you put a click on nothing and end it on snare+vocal which seem to be what you usally focus on 02:26:299 (1,2,1,2) - These being the opposites of eachother rhythmwise is intended to emphasize the switch from vocal follow into following drums for the duration that vocals aren't present how does that justify mapping 1/2 sliders that randomly start on nothing but end on important beats. this could probably work as some overall concept of the map, but not like you did it
02:57:109 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - completely ignores 3/4 emphasis again, when http://lasse.s-ul.eu/QIRZ6L19.jpg stand out so much more#
this is so distinctively different from 02:55:812 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - yet you just continue the spacing increasing stream. As mentioned above I chose to simplify all these rhythms in the song and here the obvious increase in intensity is presented by increasing the spacing of the stream (the most important kicks have an increase in spacing between them to take these really important kicks into addition even if the rhythm is simplified 02:57:028 (4,1) - 02:57:677 (4,1) - )

03:44:298 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - think a rhythm like http://lasse.s-ul.eu/ARIYEh0W.jpg would be nice as that would let you emphasize the snares with 1/4 sliders and the melody with jumps/starting to click again, the current is alright on melody with (5) but seems a bit weird with the very outstanding snares on the white ticks Here the emphasizing in the simplified version happens with the turning point being the strong kick 03:44:622 (5) - simplifying 3/4 rhythms on a 185bpm 7* map, nice. as above this doesn't represent the song at all

another thing would be overall usage of spacing between sections, mainly in the "calmer" parts like the intro, making for a lack of contrast between them and the more intense parts
examples would be 00:06:028 (2,3) - 00:05:704 (5,1) - 00:11:218 (6,1) - and a lot more similar stuff in this part. it's only background noise and vocals, yet very similar to the first chorus intensity wise Hmm I like the idea of distincting these more so I'll adjust them to what might seem a little to you but noticeable for me but still I will lower the spacing on these!
00:46:974 (1) - 00:56:461 - this part is executed better in that regard I agree.


00:57:272 (2,3) - what are these even following? big spacing jumps on nothing? I agree these do land on nothingness but this is the kind of reasonable "overmapping" that exists as I went over this with Monstrata and got opinions from players such as Xilver for this aswell. While you are playing this clicking at these part feels only natural opposed to having nothing there. And the argument for these being big jumps refer to my response below. similar to earlier points, devalues the actual strong sounds in the song
02:14:461 (2) - can you at least not put huge spacing on these things lol clicking is already barely makes any sense here But this isn't huge? compare to 02:15:272 (2,3) - 02:16:083 (3,1) - 02:16:893 (3,4) - This is normal spacing I use for this part. maybe reconsider your whole spacing concept then
Thank you for the mods :) !
popping since I think these issues weren't properly addressed and the difficulty fails to represent the song properly
and this without even going into how extremely overdone putting a 7* map jump spam map on simple 180bpm anime music fels
bold stuff are my main concerns

parts like 00:03:272 - still feel extremely overspaced if you compare the relationship between intensity/spacing to other parts
-Atri-
3,047 posts
Joined March 2013
-Atri-
"Failed to represent the song" is not even a solid counter-argument or forcing to fix the problem you have mentioned, especially when it comes to how mapper is trying to explain what he's trying to do, If a pattern itself is flawed despite the mapper have explained that part, you should rather tell him how the pattern and his explanation doesn't work instead of just telling him it doesn't follow the song enough, that wouldn't force him to nor helping the map itself
Sing
354 posts
Joined December 2013
Sing
sinplifying complex rhythms into a stream isnt failing to represent a song, its just like using a spinner for a map with a complex buildup lol
Lasse
Beatmap Nominator
3,596 posts
Joined June 2011
Lasse
firis: that is pretty much what I did, there is a clear explanation I see these points as issues and suggestions what to do about them

sing: that's not even remotely comparable. and calling 185bpm 3/4 rhythms "conplex" when looking at the difficulty of the whole map has to be a joke. when you have streams on 1/4, streams on nothing, streams on 1/2 and streams on 3/4 you are most likely not representing obvious differences in the song. iirc fucchos diff was an alright example for rhythm that would make sense for 02:57:109 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - but I'm not at home right now to actually open editor and confirm
-Atri-
3,047 posts
Joined March 2013
-Atri-

Lasse wrote:

that is pretty much what I did, there is a clear explanation I see these points as issues and suggestions what to do about them
I think you misread my point here, the mapper is trying to explain how his intention on his pattern but you reply with "I don't think so" or "doesn't represent the song at all" doesn't even trying to fight his explanation at all
Sing
354 posts
Joined December 2013
Sing

Lasse wrote:

sing: that's not even remotely comparable. and calling 185bpm 3/4 rhythms "conplex" when looking at the difficulty of the whole map has to be a joke. when you have streams on 1/4, streams on nothing, streams on 1/2 and streams on 3/4 you are most likely not representing obvious differences in the song. iirc fucchos diff was an alright example for rhythm that would make sense for 02:57:109 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - but I'm not at home right now to actually open editor and confirm
I think for that part specifically the streams are justified since it fits rhythmically, though you are correct that it is not representing an obvious difference in the song. This can easily be fixed though by changing the stream shapes to be more linear than the past curved streams and have the Nc's be placed accordingly to the music.

In fact, I think this can be applied to other areas where the streams don't exactly "look" like they don't fit in. (probably: 00:22:731 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - & 01:39:110 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,1) - )
Monstrata
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
4,642 posts
Joined May 2013
Monstrata
Bold Red = Agree with Lasse
Bold Green = Disagree / Mildly agree / Not critical to the map imo

Lasse wrote:

ProfessionalBox wrote:

some issues I have with the top diff Let's hear them!

03:04:082 (1) - clicking this seems so strange with what's going on the song, deleting this and making 03:03:920 (1) - a 1/2 or 3/4 slider seems nicer This current patterning is a way of emphasizing the complete stop that the music has between 03:03:839 - 03:03:920 - by a large spacing from a slow slider going to a fast kickslider. The reason it is a kickslider is because it immediately shoots the cursor movement back into the large and fast slider velocity that the part before it had and the part after it has in order to make the increase in overall spacing feel natural right from the start. Anytyhing else but a kickslider would feel lackluster in my opinion. the issue is not the kickslider itself, but how you put a click on 03:04:082 -
which makes no sense at all as I stated before. also the kickslider doesn't have such an effect as nobody willl follow it, thus no "shooting the movement
back" or anything. things that would make more sense: higher sv + 1/2 or 3/4 slider, a gap on rhythm, ...
03:05:866 (3) - all important sounds are on the red tick, but you put a pretty pointless seeming extended slider over that? // 01:33:110 (6) - I talked about my usage of these 3/4 sliders when I replied to Pentori but basically I use them to emphasize the melody on the backgroun as it has a climax here and I don't want to ignore it. where? the blue tick? I don't think so

I also have no idea why things like 03:05:379 (3) - 03:06:352 (2) - etc. have to be fullscreen jumps, it's such a weak sound The fact that it is fullscreen doesn't really hold any extra value here as the whole part has relatively high spacing to follow the transpose the music has and the increase in intensity that the music brings with it because of that. So compared to rest of the spacing in this part this is normal spacing and consistent. it actually holds "extra" value by devaluing your other big jumps mapped to much more significant beats

Can agree with this.

overall rhythm choice overall often seems like you just throw multiple layers together losing pretty much all emphasis, like 03:07:974 (2,2) - are emphasizing vocals, but 03:07:487 (1) - ignores vocals, despite 03:07:487 (1,1,2,1,2) - being a rather repetitive thing, so using the same rhythm for all 3 parts of this would make more sense I think This is just my opinion and I can understand why this would cause some controversy but the reason I mix in all these rhythm choices is so that I wouldn't commit myself into following a single aspect in the song too much. If I commit myself into following just a single thing in music then the player starts to expect that in all parts of the song and it makes my mapping much more limited. If I mix all these elements in I can emphasize the parts that I find worth emphasizing much more naturally as the player isn't made to think that oh since this part comes up it must follow the vocals now or the melody now etc. The whole map is a proof of this way of thinking, I mix up the following of vocals and instruments a lot but I do it in a way that feels natural for me. I know it's a cliché thing to say that it's my way of mapping but it truly is and it's present in all of my maps that give me the option to do this (songs that have so many elements mixed in them that allow for this kind of change of things I follow instead of being so forcefully linear that they make me follow a certain aspect of a song from start to finish like vocals for example). Now to say why I do this precisely in this part is so that I can naturally add the piano sounds at 03:08:460 (1,2,3,4,1) - into the map because the player isn't expecting me to blindly follow the vocals and this makes for a much more interesting and fun to play part because of the piano being here. Apologies for the long explanation but I thought it was necessary to make you understand my perspective a bit more as you might find the reasoning behind my responses a bit lacking at times. doesn't make any sense to me but whatever

01:39:110 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,1) - this completely ignores the song with the pretty outstanding 3/4 rhythm of the drums, emphasis would be on http://lasse.s-ul.eu/RohA0gx2.jpg When I started to map this I chose to simplify all of these into streams that are a mix of the drums and the piano as I find it natural being a stream instead of a triplet into kickslider jumpspam. doesn't change the fact that it fails at representing the song properly

It's worth replacing this with kicksliders or something. The stream is a bit overmapped, though in the context of the difficulty, it doesn't seem too out of place. (I don't think that's fair justification though, just a comment).

same goes for 00:22:731 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - and wherever else this happens
01:40:893 (1) - I have no idea what this is supposed to do. just leaving this empty would make it fit so much better // 00:24:353 (2) - This was intended to be like a built in "countdown" but since it isn't necessary and works without it I'll remove it.

02:26:785 (2) - things like this make no sense at all emphasis wise, you put a click on nothing and end it on snare+vocal which seem to be what you usally focus on 02:26:299 (1,2,1,2) - These being the opposites of eachother rhythmwise is intended to emphasize the switch from vocal follow into following drums for the duration that vocals aren't present how does that justify mapping 1/2 sliders that randomly start on nothing but end on important beats. this could probably work as some overall concept of the map, but not like you did it

I think here, using an off-beat rhythm is fine, but switching the rhythm around is also fine. This doesn't seem that glaring of an issue, but it's still something ProBox can definitely address better.

02:57:109 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - completely ignores 3/4 emphasis again, when http://lasse.s-ul.eu/QIRZ6L19.jpg stand out so much more#
this is so distinctively different from 02:55:812 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - yet you just continue the spacing increasing stream. As mentioned above I chose to simplify all these rhythms in the song and here the obvious increase in intensity is presented by increasing the spacing of the stream (the most important kicks have an increase in spacing between them to take these really important kicks into addition even if the rhythm is simplified 02:57:028 (4,1) - 02:57:677 (4,1) - )

03:44:298 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - think a rhythm like http://lasse.s-ul.eu/ARIYEh0W.jpg would be nice as that would let you emphasize the snares with 1/4 sliders and the melody with jumps/starting to click again, the current is alright on melody with (5) but seems a bit weird with the very outstanding snares on the white ticks Here the emphasizing in the simplified version happens with the turning point being the strong kick 03:44:622 (5) - simplifying 3/4 rhythms on a 185bpm 7* map, nice. as above this doesn't represent the song at all

Actually, I think there's justification for streams here... and 03:44:622 (5) - is a reasonable note to map a turning point too. Still could be better explained.

another thing would be overall usage of spacing between sections, mainly in the "calmer" parts like the intro, making for a lack of contrast between them and the more intense parts
examples would be 00:06:028 (2,3) - 00:05:704 (5,1) - 00:11:218 (6,1) - and a lot more similar stuff in this part. it's only background noise and vocals, yet very similar to the first chorus intensity wise Hmm I like the idea of distincting these more so I'll adjust them to what might seem a little to you but noticeable for me but still I will lower the spacing on these!
00:46:974 (1) - 00:56:461 - this part is executed better in that regard I agree.


00:57:272 (2,3) - what are these even following? big spacing jumps on nothing? I agree these do land on nothingness but this is the kind of reasonable "overmapping" that exists as I went over this with Monstrata and got opinions from players such as Xilver for this aswell. While you are playing this clicking at these part feels only natural opposed to having nothing there. And the argument for these being big jumps refer to my response below. similar to earlier points, devalues the actual strong sounds in the song
02:14:461 (2) - can you at least not put huge spacing on these things lol clicking is already barely makes any sense here But this isn't huge? compare to 02:15:272 (2,3) - 02:16:083 (3,1) - 02:16:893 (3,4) - This is normal spacing I use for this part. maybe reconsider your whole spacing concept then

Agree.

Thank you for the mods :) !
popping since I think these issues weren't properly addressed and the difficulty fails to represent the song properly
and this without even going into how extremely overdone putting a 7* map jump spam map on simple 180bpm anime music fels
bold stuff are my main concerns

parts like 00:03:272 - still feel extremely overspaced if you compare the relationship between intensity/spacing to other parts
Adding my thoughts. Agree with most of what Lasse said in bold. Actually, I had a longwinded discussion with ProBox about it too. I suppose this conversation would have come up, whether it be through a bubble-pop or a disqualification. In any case, lets try and get these issues ironed out. I don't believe they absolutely need to be fixed in order for the map to be ranked, but I do believe a more convincing argument can be given. We can reach a compromise.

I finished checking other diffs, and there's really not much else I need to say, especially having gone through the whole set so many times xP. Poke me when Lasse is happy~
Erisan
375 posts
Joined August 2011
Erisan
　
　
　
　
┐(´д｀)┌
Kalibe
2,060 posts
Joined October 2013
Kalibe
dead
melon boy
278 posts
Joined August 2013
melon boy
when??
Keru Kawashiro
105 posts
Joined October 2015
Keru Kawashiro

Fuccho wrote:

when??
Meyrink
728 posts
Joined February 2014
Meyrink

AlphaKerudio wrote:

Fuccho wrote:

when??
i posted this to get my 666th forum post
Kalibe
2,060 posts
Joined October 2013
Kalibe

AlphaKerudio wrote:

Fuccho wrote:

when??
-Mikan
807 posts
Joined September 2016
-Mikan

AlphaKerudio wrote:

Fuccho wrote:

when??
ProfessionalBox
Elite Mapper: Aspirant
771 posts
Joined September 2013
Topic Starter
ProfessionalBox
lets see if its time now, I let this sat for good 7 months to see if my opinions would change over time as they were challenged many times but as I see there is no reason to change the top diff fundamentally so I'm going to try to rank it in its current state :D
alkalde
84 posts
Joined October 2015
alkalde

ProfessionalBox wrote:

lets see if its time now, I let this sat for good 7 months to see if my opinions would change over time as they were challenged many times but as I see there is no reason to change the top diff fundamentally so I'm going to try to rank it in its current state :D
YESSS
Sanyi
236 posts
Joined November 2015
Sanyi
When you convert Joey's Moderato to ctb it is A LITTLE BIT BROKEN

but only A LITTLE BIT :P

should be no obstacle to reach ranked status though
Bunnrei
1,044 posts
Joined May 2011
Bunnrei
the Moderato diff when converted to ctb is. uh. yeah.



doing any change to the map seems to fix this and it reverts to 4.77* (i added a note then saved then deleted it then saved)

also yea it barely plays like a 9*

if this got ranked then free 988pp xdddddddddd
Hollow Delta
793 posts
Joined March 2015
Hollow Delta

Lasse and ProBox wrote:

(Blue is ProBox, and pink is Lasse. Green is my agreement and Red is my disagreement
some issues I have with the top diff Let's hear them!

03:04:082 (1) - clicking this seems so strange with what's going on the song, deleting this and making 03:03:920 (1) - a 1/2 or 3/4 slider seems nicer This current patterning is a way of emphasizing the complete stop that the music has between 03:03:839 - 03:03:920 - by a large spacing from a slow slider going to a fast kickslider. The reason it is a kickslider is because it immediately shoots the cursor movement back into the large and fast slider velocity that the part before it had and the part after it has in order to make the increase in overall spacing feel natural right from the start. Anytyhing else but a kickslider would feel lackluster in my opinion. the issue is not the kickslider itself, but how you put a click on 03:04:082 -
which makes no sense at all as I stated before. also the kickslider doesn't have such an effect as nobody willl follow it, thus no "shooting the movement
back" or anything. things that would make more sense: higher sv + 1/2 or 3/4 slider, a gap on rhythm, ... I disagree with the rhythm choice suggested here. While you're suggestion to change 03:03:920 (1) - into 1/2 or 3/4 rhythm works, that's not what fits with the map contextually.
While there is a click here, that doesn't mean the rhythm is inaccurate. The emphasis of the kick slider is greater than the circle, so that contrast between two points in rhythm is equal to that of a 1/2 slider.
Even if a click is 'strange' (I assume you mean unexpected, hard, unplayable, etc) the player has a second finger primed to hit the second key, so rhythm with more clicks than conventional like this aren't that unintuitive (or incorrect) to use.

03:05:866 (3) - all important sounds are on the red tick, but you put a pretty pointless seeming extended slider over that? // 01:33:110 (6) - I talked about my usage of these 3/4 sliders when I replied to Pentori but basically I use them to emphasize the melody on the backgroun as it has a climax here and I don't want to ignore it. where? the blue tick? I don't think so
It looks like ProBox fixed this sometime afterwards, so I'll leave this point alone for now xp

I also have no idea why things like 03:05:379 (3) - 03:06:352 (2) - etc. have to be fullscreen jumps, it's such a weak sound The fact that it is fullscreen doesn't really hold any extra value here as the whole part has relatively high spacing to follow the transpose the music has and the increase in intensity that the music brings with it because of that. So compared to rest of the spacing in this part this is normal spacing and consistent. it actually holds "extra" value by devaluing your other big jumps mapped to much more significant beats I think ProBox is right for this part, as the jump visually looks similar to it's surrounding jumps so consistency wise it should be okay.
However, your point on how it 'devalues other bigger jumps' I feel is incorrect, as if you compare it to the next part where the tension builds up slightly 03:07:812 (1,2,1,2) - the spacing is larger to compliment that, so I don't feel it 'devalues' the larger jumps.

overall rhythm choice overall often seems like you just throw multiple layers together losing pretty much all emphasis, like 03:07:974 (2,2) - are emphasizing vocals, but 03:07:487 (1) - ignores vocals, despite 03:07:487 (1,1,2,1,2) - being a rather repetitive thing, so using the same rhythm for all 3 parts of this would make more sense I think This is just my opinion and I can understand why this would cause some controversy but the reason I mix in all these rhythm choices is so that I wouldn't commit myself into following a single aspect in the song too much. If I commit myself into following just a single thing in music then the player starts to expect that in all parts of the song and it makes my mapping much more limited. If I mix all these elements in I can emphasize the parts that I find worth emphasizing much more naturally as the player isn't made to think that oh since this part comes up it must follow the vocals now or the melody now etc. The whole map is a proof of this way of thinking, I mix up the following of vocals and instruments a lot but I do it in a way that feels natural for me. I know it's a cliché thing to say that it's my way of mapping but it truly is and it's present in all of my maps that give me the option to do this (songs that have so many elements mixed in them that allow for this kind of change of things I follow instead of being so forcefully linear that they make me follow a certain aspect of a song from start to finish like vocals for example). Now to say why I do this precisely in this part is so that I can naturally add the piano sounds at 03:08:460 (1,2,3,4,1) - into the map because the player isn't expecting me to blindly follow the vocals and this makes for a much more interesting and fun to play part because of the piano being here. Apologies for the long explanation but I thought it was necessary to make you understand my perspective a bit more as you might find the reasoning behind my responses a bit lacking at times. doesn't make any sense to me but whatever For this particular section you gave in the example I agree with you. While 03:07:487 (6) - shares similar emphasis to 03:07:812 (1,2,1,2) - because they vary so quickly / suddenly when they're so similar in sound could feel surprising to play.
I can discuss with ProBox how we could potentially improve this when we talk ingame.

01:39:110 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,1) - this completely ignores the song with the pretty outstanding 3/4 rhythm of the drums, emphasis would be on http://lasse.s-ul.eu/RohA0gx2.jpg When I started to map this I chose to simplify all of these into streams that are a mix of the drums and the piano as I find it natural being a stream instead of a triplet into kickslider jumpspam. doesn't change the fact that it fails at representing the song properly The rhythm choice ProBox uses here works to compliment the subtlety, however it might come as a shock when playing because the spacing is similar to that of 01:29:704 (2,3,4,5,6,7) - which has more powerful beats.
I feel this rhythm would work if the spacing and / or pattern complimented the subtlety of the mapped sounds. (maybe bunch up / shorten the spacing / pattern so as to contrast the difference in intensity)
Simplification of this rhythm works because it captures the important beats while capturing the more subtle ones without really throwing anything too shocking at the player.
same goes for 00:22:731 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1) - and wherever else this happens ^
01:40:893 (1) - I have no idea what this is supposed to do. just leaving this empty would make it fit so much better // 00:24:353 (2) - This was intended to be like a built in "countdown" but since it isn't necessary and works without it I'll remove it. This got fixed xp

02:26:785 (2) - things like this make no sense at all emphasis wise, you put a click on nothing and end it on snare+vocal which seem to be what you usally focus on 02:26:299 (1,2,1,2) - These being the opposites of eachother rhythmwise is intended to emphasize the switch from vocal follow into following drums for the duration that vocals aren't present how does that justify mapping 1/2 sliders that randomly start on nothing but end on important beats. this could probably work as some overall concept of the map, but not like you did it It looks like ProBox patched this one too, as the rhythm now doesn't match up with what Lasse's describing.
02:57:109 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - completely ignores 3/4 emphasis again, when http://lasse.s-ul.eu/QIRZ6L19.jpg stand out so much more#
this is so distinctively different from 02:55:812 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - yet you just continue the spacing increasing stream. As mentioned above I chose to simplify all these rhythms in the song and here the obvious increase in intensity is presented by increasing the spacing of the stream (the most important kicks have an increase in spacing between them to take these really important kicks into addition even if the rhythm is simplified 02:57:028 (4,1) - 02:57:677 (4,1) - ) The stream I feel compliments the intensity really well as it still covers the important sounds mentioned in your post without using any surprising rhythm.

03:44:298 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - think a rhythm like http://lasse.s-ul.eu/ARIYEh0W.jpg would be nice as that would let you emphasize the snares with 1/4 sliders and the melody with jumps/starting to click again, the current is alright on melody with (5) but seems a bit weird with the very outstanding snares on the white ticks Here the emphasizing in the simplified version happens with the turning point being the strong kick 03:44:622 (5) - simplifying 3/4 rhythms on a 185bpm 7* map, nice. as above this doesn't represent the song at all I think I'll address this in a general point since this comes up a lot, but to say this 'doesn't represent the song at all' is incorrect, as there is logic behind the simplification. There's more to rhythm than just what's clickable and what isn't. There's also emphasis, intensity, vibe, and maybe even other factors to consider when it comes to rhythm. I think Probox avoid the style of rhythm you're suggesting because it would actually provide less engaging gameplay than a stream.

another thing would be overall usage of spacing between sections, mainly in the "calmer" parts like the intro, making for a lack of contrast between them and the more intense parts
examples would be 00:06:028 (2,3) - 00:05:704 (5,1) - 00:11:218 (6,1) - and a lot more similar stuff in this part. it's only background noise and vocals, yet very similar to the first chorus intensity wise Hmm I like the idea of distincting these more so I'll adjust them to what might seem a little to you but noticeable for me but still I will lower the spacing on these!
00:46:974 (1) - 00:56:461 - this part is executed better in that regard. I agree.
Looks like ProBox fixed these too


00:57:272 (2,3) - what are these even following? big spacing jumps on nothing? I agree these do land on nothingness but this is the kind of reasonable "overmapping" that exists as I went over this with Monstrata and got opinions from players such as Xilver for this aswell. While you are playing this clicking at these part feels only natural opposed to having nothing there. And the argument for these being big jumps refer to my response below. similar to earlier points, devalues the actual strong sounds in the song Just because there's nothing there doesn't mean the rhythm is incorrect. The way ProBox seems to map his rhythm is through emphasis > what's clickable / isn't clickable.
He could've mapped it as a reverse slider or a stack, but the problem with that option is the object density would slow down tremendously, which might come as more of a shock to the player than the rhythm mapped right now.
Maybe if ProBox placed a clap on 00:57:272 (3) - it'd play more intuitively as it would "blend in", but alone this rhythm isn't unpredictable and still compliments the emphasis of the song.
02:14:461 (2) - can you at least not put huge spacing on these things lol clicking is already barely makes any sense here But this isn't huge? compare to 02:15:272 (2,3) - 02:16:083 (3,1) - 02:16:893 (3,4) - This is normal spacing I use for this part. maybe reconsider your whole spacing concept then I kind of agree yet disagree with this point.
WHile the jumps are slightly larger at the point mentioned than expected, you could argue the difference isn't great enough to suggest it isn't mapped to the same sound as 02:13:974 (2,3) - because of that, I feel the jumps could be shortened, but I don't think that would make a huge improvement.
popping since I think these issues weren't properly addressed and the difficulty fails to represent the song properly
and this without even going into how extremely overdone putting a 7* map jump spam map on simple 180bpm anime music fels
bold stuff are my main concerns

parts like 00:03:272 - still feel extremely overspaced if you compare the relationship between intensity/spacing to other parts


To give a more detailed response to Lasse's opinion on the simplified-stream patterns, I feel they fit the song because even though it's simplified, they are still backed up by 1/4 background beats, so there's something for the player to listen to. If ProBox mapped the emphasis on the 3/4 ticks alone like you suggested, the density would drop tremendously, which would come more as a shock to the player than the streams.

I'm going to recheck the set, as I feel the map has a lot to offer and to see so much work go to the grave over conflicting mapping ideas I feel is unfair to the mapper. Therefor I feel it's fundamentally wrong to veto the set for the reasons above.

@ProfessionalBox Call me back xp
Shohei Ohtani
Shohei Ohtani
what a colorful post
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