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384 来个mu可好
384 来个mu可好
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Linkin Park - Guilty All The Same (feat. Rakim)
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Total Posts
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Hello!
I have some concerns regarding the top diff of this mapset. (Hitsounds apply to the map as a whole assuming they are consistent between difficulties)
There seems to be a lack of feedback provided by the hitsound. This is a moderately heavy rock song that could be utilizing a lot more hitnormals to provide better feedback to the player. While I understand that you seem to have wanted to do some interchanging between hitnormal and hitsoft to provide feedback on snares of the drum and what not, this could be much better with custom hitsounded claps and hitnormal throughout the intense parts. I also believe that the soft hit finish could also be exchanged with better custom hitsounding. 02:22:440 (1) - Things like this are very jarring and feel out of place and almost fake. In addition, it seems you're overusing the soft finish to force some intensity that may not be present in the song.
In short: Hitnormal and clap usage can be improved.
While I understand that the style of symmetry can warrant some pretty high spacing for maintaining the "style" and design, it's important to still maintain consistency in your overall beatmap. As this map stands right now, there are very high spikes in difficulty that occur rather inconsistently. While I know that you want to capture the intensity and the back and forth movement created by the cymbals and drums, you seem to mistake intensity from flow. The song does not get exponentially more intense: aka the difference between: 02:30:840 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - and 02:27:240 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6) - . The pattern 03:14:040 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - does a much better job of capturing this concept, as it uses jumps that fit the intensity of the section compared to others, but maintain a pattern that reflects the back and forth feeling of the cymbals as mentioned earlier.
In short: Spacing is overdone and chaotically inconsistent.
Now understand, I am not a fan of symmetry style, but if you are going to use it, make sure that your jumps properly reflect intensity and are not whatever spacing you want that preserves your design.
I have some concerns regarding the top diff of this mapset. (Hitsounds apply to the map as a whole assuming they are consistent between difficulties)
There seems to be a lack of feedback provided by the hitsound. This is a moderately heavy rock song that could be utilizing a lot more hitnormals to provide better feedback to the player. While I understand that you seem to have wanted to do some interchanging between hitnormal and hitsoft to provide feedback on snares of the drum and what not, this could be much better with custom hitsounded claps and hitnormal throughout the intense parts. I also believe that the soft hit finish could also be exchanged with better custom hitsounding. 02:22:440 (1) - Things like this are very jarring and feel out of place and almost fake. In addition, it seems you're overusing the soft finish to force some intensity that may not be present in the song.
In short: Hitnormal and clap usage can be improved.
While I understand that the style of symmetry can warrant some pretty high spacing for maintaining the "style" and design, it's important to still maintain consistency in your overall beatmap. As this map stands right now, there are very high spikes in difficulty that occur rather inconsistently. While I know that you want to capture the intensity and the back and forth movement created by the cymbals and drums, you seem to mistake intensity from flow. The song does not get exponentially more intense: aka the difference between: 02:30:840 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - and 02:27:240 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,1,2,3,4,5,1,2,3,4,5,6) - . The pattern 03:14:040 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - does a much better job of capturing this concept, as it uses jumps that fit the intensity of the section compared to others, but maintain a pattern that reflects the back and forth feeling of the cymbals as mentioned earlier.
In short: Spacing is overdone and chaotically inconsistent.
Now understand, I am not a fan of symmetry style, but if you are going to use it, make sure that your jumps properly reflect intensity and are not whatever spacing you want that preserves your design.
Congrats on your first icon, Xexxar!
first icon...
GratzAscendance wrote:
Congrats on your first icon, Xexxar!
When can I have one as well lul
Topic Starter
About the spacing, I think I need to provide all my reasons for them to show my idea in this diffculty. In fact, this difficulty is not my style but I just want to experiment some intensified jumps on this song. (to be honest, I prefer the INSANE)
00:47:640 - As the electro guitar getting louder, the song is intensified step by step and thus it reached the first climax of the song, the guitar solo. To reflect the theme "guilty", jumps are larger to emphasize the intensity and difficulty, in the way the official MV does (it contains a game called SPARK and the attack from GUILT is amplified here).
01:16:440 - Yeah the left-to-right-and-right-to-left pattern. I feel like giving it a try when I first listened to this song. Objectively, the song, especially the drums, bursts here, after a short calm part (where the GUILT stops any attack and gives its appearance), along with blame and anger. So the left-to-right pattern aims to let the player feel caught between guilt and uneasiness. In addition, this pattern originates from LP's previous song, 'Skin to Bone', where they sing "As the starlight fades to gray, I'll be matching far away. Right to left and left to right nahhhhh..." (see https://osu.ppy.sh/s/162800). In particular, 01:23:640 - cymbals and drums become loudest here, together with the guitar reaching its highest pitch, so I use left-to-right-and-right-to-left circles instead of sliders.
02:00:840 - Undoubtedly I follow the drums, and it feels much more awesome along with the prolonged vocal "know" and the increasingly stronger bass. I think the jumps here are not controversial.
02:20:940 - I also follow the drums here, which is getting louder and stronger, and use the increased spacing to indicate this advance in volumn. Then the jumps face a sudden stop as the instrument line meets a total silence, in contrast with the intensive jumps.
02:30:840 - You are right and I avianize the unreasonable huge jumps.
02:52:440 - Drums are emphasized and intensified here, different from 01:54:840 - , so I follow the drums totally to indicate the change and pave the way for jumps here 02:59:640 - , the silence here 03:00:840 - , and the chorus. Uncontrovertibly, jumps here 02:59:640 - are reasonable.
03:04:440 - Not only did I indicate the back and forth in cymbals and drums, but also the repeatedly changed pitch in bass line. The same goes with 03:09:240 - , 03:14:040 - and 03:18:840 - . In particular, the lyric "there's no one else to blame" repeats once here 03:21:240 - , so in order to show the apparent anger and hatred, I put circles at the heads of previous sliders.
03:23:490 - YES I LOVE THE GUITAR HERE. Everything goes into pure anger and uneasiness, and the player SHOULD feels caught by guilt and frustration here, so again, the left-to-right-and-right-to-left jumps. And in addtion to this, the character in the MV is killed in action (K.I.A.) here by guilt and thus I want the osu players feel the pressure from pain, guilt, and death by forcing them to keep their right hands moving. What's more, everything gets weakened here 03:33:090 - since it paves the way for "THE REBORN" in MV later on. So the previous jumps are placed in contrast with this part.
04:52:440 - Why square jumps here? They are another form of back-and-forth jumps as they are placed diagonally.
04:57:240 - I find no reason for this but I think that's okay.
05:02:040 - The same as that in the previous chorus.
05:06:840 - Jumps are angrily placed here in clockwise. That's a metaphor for the inextricably guilt as the cursor finds no way out but just confined by the guilt. That's in line with the lyric, "there's no one else to blame", as "you" is the one who makes cheating, fraud and excuse and that he should reap what he has sown and suffer from his own guilty conscience.
05:11:490 - previously mentioned.
05:35:640 - Jumps here follow the pitch of guitar.
As for the "inconsistency": I feel totally the opposite as I try to make things consistent and I don't know how come you feel the "inconsistency".
And about the hitsounding, I'll reconsider it, though I just hitsounded the map the way I used to and no one has ever find fault in it. But to be honest, I am a huge fan of default hitsounds.
No, feedbacks are enough. I find some testplays from players ranking ~#1000 and few ever complains to me about the hitsound. Some even said that they are a bit noisy. On the other hand, I don't want to increase the volumn, utilize the normal hitsound, or using custom hitsounds, otherwise the hitsounds will end up covering the guitar and the original drums, or that's to say, the wrangling guest robs the place of the host. That's quite frustrating, isn't it?
tl;dr: I only changed the jumps here 02:30:840 - .
Anyway, thank you for your help and concerning!
EDIT: modificated the jumps at 03:15:240 - 05:03:240 - to improve gameplay, as is adviced by Skystar.
EDIT2: self-modding, I fixed a missing new combo in BEGINNER and a missing finish in ADVANCE.
00:47:640 - As the electro guitar getting louder, the song is intensified step by step and thus it reached the first climax of the song, the guitar solo. To reflect the theme "guilty", jumps are larger to emphasize the intensity and difficulty, in the way the official MV does (it contains a game called SPARK and the attack from GUILT is amplified here).
01:16:440 - Yeah the left-to-right-and-right-to-left pattern. I feel like giving it a try when I first listened to this song. Objectively, the song, especially the drums, bursts here, after a short calm part (where the GUILT stops any attack and gives its appearance), along with blame and anger. So the left-to-right pattern aims to let the player feel caught between guilt and uneasiness. In addition, this pattern originates from LP's previous song, 'Skin to Bone', where they sing "As the starlight fades to gray, I'll be matching far away. Right to left and left to right nahhhhh..." (see https://osu.ppy.sh/s/162800). In particular, 01:23:640 - cymbals and drums become loudest here, together with the guitar reaching its highest pitch, so I use left-to-right-and-right-to-left circles instead of sliders.
02:00:840 - Undoubtedly I follow the drums, and it feels much more awesome along with the prolonged vocal "know" and the increasingly stronger bass. I think the jumps here are not controversial.
02:20:940 - I also follow the drums here, which is getting louder and stronger, and use the increased spacing to indicate this advance in volumn. Then the jumps face a sudden stop as the instrument line meets a total silence, in contrast with the intensive jumps.
02:30:840 - You are right and I avianize the unreasonable huge jumps.
02:52:440 - Drums are emphasized and intensified here, different from 01:54:840 - , so I follow the drums totally to indicate the change and pave the way for jumps here 02:59:640 - , the silence here 03:00:840 - , and the chorus. Uncontrovertibly, jumps here 02:59:640 - are reasonable.
03:04:440 - Not only did I indicate the back and forth in cymbals and drums, but also the repeatedly changed pitch in bass line. The same goes with 03:09:240 - , 03:14:040 - and 03:18:840 - . In particular, the lyric "there's no one else to blame" repeats once here 03:21:240 - , so in order to show the apparent anger and hatred, I put circles at the heads of previous sliders.
03:23:490 - YES I LOVE THE GUITAR HERE. Everything goes into pure anger and uneasiness, and the player SHOULD feels caught by guilt and frustration here, so again, the left-to-right-and-right-to-left jumps. And in addtion to this, the character in the MV is killed in action (K.I.A.) here by guilt and thus I want the osu players feel the pressure from pain, guilt, and death by forcing them to keep their right hands moving. What's more, everything gets weakened here 03:33:090 - since it paves the way for "THE REBORN" in MV later on. So the previous jumps are placed in contrast with this part.
04:52:440 - Why square jumps here? They are another form of back-and-forth jumps as they are placed diagonally.
04:57:240 - I find no reason for this but I think that's okay.
05:02:040 - The same as that in the previous chorus.
05:06:840 - Jumps are angrily placed here in clockwise. That's a metaphor for the inextricably guilt as the cursor finds no way out but just confined by the guilt. That's in line with the lyric, "there's no one else to blame", as "you" is the one who makes cheating, fraud and excuse and that he should reap what he has sown and suffer from his own guilty conscience.
05:11:490 - previously mentioned.
05:35:640 - Jumps here follow the pitch of guitar.
As for the "inconsistency": I feel totally the opposite as I try to make things consistent and I don't know how come you feel the "inconsistency".
No, feedbacks are enough. I find some testplays from players ranking ~#1000 and few ever complains to me about the hitsound. Some even said that they are a bit noisy. On the other hand, I don't want to increase the volumn, utilize the normal hitsound, or using custom hitsounds, otherwise the hitsounds will end up covering the guitar and the original drums, or that's to say, the wrangling guest robs the place of the host. That's quite frustrating, isn't it?
tl;dr: I only changed the jumps here 02:30:840 - .
Anyway, thank you for your help and concerning!
EDIT: modificated the jumps at 03:15:240 - 05:03:240 - to improve gameplay, as is adviced by Skystar.
EDIT2: self-modding, I fixed a missing new combo in BEGINNER and a missing finish in ADVANCE.
Anyway, let's try again.BNG Rules wrote:
Do only purposefully pop a bubble if the map contains unrankable issues or is severely erroneous or lacking of quality.
qualified
Topic Starter
thank you!
nb
congrats! kinda refreshing to see some English rock music in the ranked section.
niubi a
Topic Starter
oh i love you all for your support, help and anything that push forward my first qualified set after the long 2-year afk!
The symmetry is kinda sick, 384 is Zapy v2(confirmed
!!
grats, last diff is clean and fun! don't know about others haha, gratz!
congrats, set genre tho
The top difficult of this set is a bit lackluster tbh. There are many cases where your choice to map cross screen meme jumps (regardless if meme'ing is intentional this is what I call them) completely gives up on opportunities to emphasize cool bits of the music. This sort of thing isn't unrankable (sadly) but it really doesn't do the music any justice. I'm not going to bother going through and pointing out every single instance because you're probably content with how you've mapped this at this point but I'd like to point out one of the most prominent.
02:02:940 (7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - "You're guilty all the same" this is probably one of the strongest vocals in the entire song and it happens on these beats 02:02:940 (7,1,3,5,7,8) - not only are these the same distance as the off vocal parts 02:03:090 (8,2,4,6,1) - but because you've already escalated up to cross screens in this linear build up section there really is no room to even emphasize these vocals above the purely off-vocal part of the build up.
I just want to remind you for future maps that when everything is large spacing then nothing is emphasized. The common misconception is that this only applies on a macro level when comparing different phrases of the music and people forget that it also applies when comparing individual notes within the same phrase.
02:02:940 (7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - "You're guilty all the same" this is probably one of the strongest vocals in the entire song and it happens on these beats 02:02:940 (7,1,3,5,7,8) - not only are these the same distance as the off vocal parts 02:03:090 (8,2,4,6,1) - but because you've already escalated up to cross screens in this linear build up section there really is no room to even emphasize these vocals above the purely off-vocal part of the build up.
I just want to remind you for future maps that when everything is large spacing then nothing is emphasized. The common misconception is that this only applies on a macro level when comparing different phrases of the music and people forget that it also applies when comparing individual notes within the same phrase.
It's sad I didn't see this map until qualified. The song is cool but I can't understand why the map is already ranked, there were some issues to fix.
[K.I.A.]
04:52:440 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - spacing becomes lower? Inconsistency
04:57:240 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - terrible flow pattern
05:02:040 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - a very dull, uninspiring pattern with bad flow, it has low variety and is used several times in the song. You might notice that this kind of pattern is not used in any other ranked map (yes, it is an old-style mapping but look at Big Brother and all its patterns are actually nice to play).
[K.I.A.]
04:52:440 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - spacing becomes lower? Inconsistency
04:57:240 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - terrible flow pattern
05:02:040 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - a very dull, uninspiring pattern with bad flow, it has low variety and is used several times in the song. You might notice that this kind of pattern is not used in any other ranked map (yes, it is an old-style mapping but look at Big Brother and all its patterns are actually nice to play).
no idea what K.I.A. means lol
killed in action :v
Topic Starter
I catch what you said and it indeed makes sense. To be honest, I was trying to match the spacing changes with the lyric but since I followed drums here, I'd love to find a compromise between the vocal and instrument line. So the decision was made that the spacing depends on the drums (8 notes per group) while it paves the way for the crescendo of the vocal.chainpullz wrote:
The top difficult of this set is a bit lackluster tbh. There are many cases where your choice to map cross screen meme jumps (regardless if meme'ing is intentional this is what I call them) completely gives up on opportunities to emphasize cool bits of the music. This sort of thing isn't unrankable (sadly) but it really doesn't do the music any justice. I'm not going to bother going through and pointing out every single instance because you're probably content with how you've mapped this at this point but I'd like to point out one of the most prominent.
02:02:940 (7,8,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,1) - "You're guilty all the same" this is probably one of the strongest vocals in the entire song and it happens on these beats 02:02:940 (7,1,3,5,7,8) - not only are these the same distance as the off vocal parts 02:03:090 (8,2,4,6,1) - but because you've already escalated up to cross screens in this linear build up section there really is no room to even emphasize these vocals above the purely off-vocal part of the build up.
I just want to remind you for future maps that when everything is large spacing then nothing is emphasized. The common misconception is that this only applies on a macro level when comparing different phrases of the music and people forget that it also applies when comparing individual notes within the same phrase.
I appreciate your idea and I'll pay more attention for that in future maps!
well also thank you for your feedback to let me know what players are anticipating for now!firedigger wrote:
It's sad I didn't see this map until qualified. The song is cool but I can't understand why the map is already ranked, there were some issues to fix.
[K.I.A.]
04:52:440 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - spacing becomes lower? Inconsistency
That's not inconsistency. The 1st and 4th square share the same spacing different from the 2nd and 3rd square, in order that the swing of the bass line would be indicated. On the other hand, if I had used the same spacing, would that have had been a bit dull? I've given thought on this and finally I chose this pattern.
04:57:240 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - terrible flow pattern
05:02:040 (1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8) - a very dull, uninspiring pattern with bad flow, it has low variety and is used several times in the song. You might notice that this kind of pattern is not used in any other ranked map (yes, it is an old-style mapping but look at Big Brother and all its patterns are actually nice to play).
those wrote:
no idea what K.I.A. means lol
Yeah you're right! That's originated from the official music video where the character was killed and reborn later on. But the difficulty name "Reborn" would fail to reflect the theme of this song so I chose the former one. XDLiiraye wrote:
killed in action :v
You can also take a look at the music video if interested, though that's made for a game
Gratz! I'm happy this got through the ranking process clean, it's a great mapset!
ok i actually don't have a huge issue with this map playing it further but still the halfway-across the screen jump in the first kiai is excessive
Topic Starter
I'm absolutely serious and I enjoy what I've done here, though it may not be your meat