OK. After some comment (I think Kodora makes me). I changed something like:

All beatmap must supposed people with romanized. In the case, you use Japanese unicode in Source, Must add romanized in tags and repeat

No, simply no. I see no reason to make a exception for something like that. I find latinh Tags awful too.

This shouldn't happen, because there is no option for a romanised Source field.

TheVileOne wrote:

This shouldn't happen, because there is no option for a romanised Source field.

But I think that will be better than if only source by japanese unicode?

Oyatsu wrote:

But I think that will be better than if only source by japanese unicode?

For this case romanised source should be added in tags maybe?

I believe source should be in the language it is supposed to be.

Kodora wrote:

Oyatsu wrote:

But I think that will be better than if only source by japanese unicode?

For this case romanised source should be added in tags maybe?

Why must repeat thiis? I think unicode should in tags. Also japanese can find but about foreign people?
Japanese mustn't be all everything

Oyatsu wrote:

Why must repeat thiis? I think unicode should in tags. Also japanese can find but about foreign people?
Japanese mustn't be all everything

This wont be a problem to find song by romanized source if it added to tags. I agree that source shouldn't be translated.

Kodora wrote:

Oyatsu wrote:

Why must repeat thiis? I think unicode should in tags. Also japanese can find but about foreign people?
Japanese mustn't be all everything

This wont be a problem to find song by romanized source if it added to tags. I agree that source shouldn't be translated.

Hm. I try to change. How now?

What's wrong with romaji? It would be good if the two could be interchanged like how it is with romanised titles.

My opinion:


freaking worth, right?

Oyatsu wrote:

But I think that will be better than if only source by japanese unicode?

And you argue why it is better? or is it just because it's "easier" to understand? Because this is no valid reason. And as said we have the romanised Artist/Title field for that. You know it's getting then harder for the people with no japanese knownledge if we go this way.

The source must be in the original language. If unicodes are included, romanized source must be added in tags.

This is what it should be if we want to make the source unique. However I don't know whether we really need this..

popner wrote:

The source must be in the original language. If unicodes are included, romanized source must be added in tags.

This is what it should be if we want to make the source unique. However I don't know whether we really need this..

Orginal language, your mean is Japanese unicode?

popner wrote:

The source must be in the original language. If unicodes are included, romanized source must be added in tags.

this is what it should be i expect for a long time

Use the original language unless there is an official translation/romanization imo.

popner wrote:

The source must be in the original language. If unicodes are included, romanized source must be added in tags.

Thats how it should be, i agree.

popner wrote:

The source must be in the original language. If unicodes are included, romanized source must be added in tags.

After some consider, i think this is true. I agree

Seeing there are already "Title - Title Unicode" and "Artist - Artist Unicode" metada, why not add new "Source - Source Unicode" metadata instead of putting it into "Tags"?

MMzz wrote:

Use the original language unless there is an official translation/romanization imo.

About the ranked case: http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/2190/lolhcd.png

I guess you can't tell me that The Legend of the Legendary Heroes is not the official translation if this stands on the Soundtrack CD.

And why do you need to keep this so complicated? Instead of..

The source must be in the original language. If unicodes are included, romanized source must be added in tags.

this also can be changed as..

The source must be romanized. If you want to keep the original language it must be added in tags.

Trust me, people are getting lost and mostly won't at the Tags if they want to know the Title of the anime. It won't actually change the search option but it's just unrecognizable and people can't do anything with the original Title - unless they understand the letters. And be honest: This rule is just picky as hell.

alxnr wrote:

Seeing there are already "Title - Title Unicode" and "Artist - Artist Unicode" metada, why not add new "Source - Source Unicode" metadata instead of putting it into "Tags"?

This would solve the problem here.

I found some anime related databases that may be helpful to identifying the proper way to source material.

http://www.oocities.org/espanol/gapc/an ... dex_e.html
http://www.watchanimeon.com/anime-series-list/
http://myanimeshelf.com/anime/

My opinion on this rule has been constantly changing. I don't know what is the most proper thing to do. I know what I would like to see happen, but it is clear that my preferred way is not exactly ideal. This proposed rule is equally as flawed and unsatisfactory to my needs. I will try to present the pros and cons of the current system, and the proposed system and see what careful reasoning can say about a potential middle ground.

The current system provides little requirement on what constitutes proper naming conventions for the Source field. It is widely encouraged to use the romanized version of a Source, but really there is no restrictions for unicode source. There is no romanized source option under either system and there really should be.

Pros

Flexible- allows for many variations for Source field. Mappers are free to use whatever form they feel is best.

Romanized text is easier to categorize, search for, and identify. There's no need to visit the website for translation unless it is absolutely necessary due to a poor romanization of the sourced material.

Less complications for the mapper. Mappers can use the source that they think is correct. They don't need to find both versions of a Source and the source they find is usually good enough.

Cons
Not structured- There are often several correct ways to display a Source. There is no rigid way of deciding which way a Source should be. You may see both methods in ranked maps. Although people really should be checking this. >.> It doesn't give a reason for people to check this is a side con.

Alternate naming conventions are not required to be added to tags.

Inaccurate direct translation of Source can be difficult to translate back into the intended language. Some people get Sources from Youtube. >.> I highly doubt many people check whether a source is accurately displayed. It doesn't give people a reason to check this is a side con.

Requirements for proper sourcing is vague. A proper naming convention is not defined clearly enough.

Source is treated differently than artist/title information. It would be nice to see a policy that applies to everything that shows up on the song select screen.

The proposed system by popner requires that source be in the original language.

Pros

Unicode translation must be added to tags or vice versa.

Prevents mistranslations and informs modders about incorrect sourcing. Mappers now have something to go on when they format their Source field. I'm not even sure this was a large problem.

One step closer to tag moderation.

Policy is more similar to that for title/artist in how format is to be handled. Unwritten guidelines for Source formatting will now be written down.

Could provide a wider range of access to people (only a small benefit)

Lowers name length of beatmap


Cons

Source field can have more than one correct format. This is a problem with the current system, but the wording on this assumes there is only one way of choosing a Source. There will be cases where both unicode or romanized text will be the proper method and cases where either will be equally proper. The cases where it is equally proper will have disputes, due to mapper preference. The rules shouldn't support ambiguity. We may see an influx of maps using either unicode or romanized text/romaji as a result.

Forces unicode in certain cases without proper romanization. This could be avoided if a preference for romanization was included.

Tag inclusion is not satisfactory representation for official romanized text. It needs romanized field like title/artist for proper representation.

Limited ability to search ingame, and on the web. The more identifiable romanized version of the source will be hidden in tags and the user will only see symbols. I consider this a major flaw. The romanized version is more commonly seen in an English database. A unicode focused Source field will be unfamiliar to anyone who doesn't know the base language.

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I don't mind if we require that the opposite version of the Source is in tags. This would allow people to find the song more easily.

I disagree that we should require the Source use a particular language that isn't English if there is a good direct translation. I'm indifferent about whether that translation is official. I'm not sure how you would know whether it is official or just well translated by an anime website. However we decide, it doesn't matter to me.

Feel free to tear apart my post however you want.

alxnr wrote:

Seeing there are already "Title - Title Unicode" and "Artist - Artist Unicode" metada, why not add new "Source - Source Unicode" metadata instead of putting it into "Tags"?

Can we consider about this? Vileone

That's vague. It can have multiple valid formats. Sometimes there isn't just one defacto language to fall back upon.

Edit:

I'm more in favor of what Mmzz suggested. Romanization version should be preferred when available. There must be evidence that this romanization is accepted as an official titling of the series. If we implement this language rule, it wont just affect the few titles that translate badly into English, but could affect most Japanese sources if the rule is taken literally.

The case about The Legend of the Legendary Heroes. I did a brief google search about this. Densetsu no Yuusha no Densetsu is the Japanese equivalent of the unicode version of the novel/series that translates into The Legend of the Legendary Heroes. The Japanese version would be the preferred romanization and 伝説の勇者の伝説 would be in Source field.

Stefan wrote:

The source must be romanized. If you want to keep the original language it must be added in tags.

I'm not sure this applies to all cases, but works for the large majority. I don't think that the source tag should be optional. Romanized source field would be a cleaner representation as it hides the unicode, but still allows the information to be displayed, but tag provides the same convenience.

The source must be romanized. If there exists an official non-romanized version in the original language, it must be added to tags.

I will try to include unicode versions of the Source in the tags of my maps. This is one of those things that is just easy to overlook, but simple to do.


Edit: Just so I don't seem so one-sided. Lets discuss what effect this rule would have if it required the source to be in the official language first.

peppy wrote:

I believe source should be in the language it is supposed to be.

That's right in my opinion. Not because peppy says, but because if we already have to use original language in artist and title, why should it be different in source? And surely romanization is almost always in tags, so there is no problem about this.

Wafu wrote:

peppy wrote:

I believe source should be in the language it is supposed to be.

That's right in my opinion. Not because peppy says, but because if we already have to use original language in artist and title, why should it be different in source? And surely romanization is almost always in tags, so there is no problem about this.

Yea I've known it but How to you are sure it is supposed it is Original Language or Romanization? also, no have any website says it is this or that? Almost osu! player are forein (my opinion, more other countries player than Japanese player? Let discuss?

I think it makes a lot more sense to keep it in the original language; this is always known to be "official". Although some series may have an official romanization, it looks a lot more organized if we can make anything in Japanese with a Japanese source.

TheVileOne wrote:

I'm more in favor of what Mmzz suggested. Romanization version should be preferred when available. There must be evidence that this romanization is accepted as an official titling of the series. If we implement this language rule, it wont just affect the few titles that translate badly into English, but could affect most Japanese sources if the rule is taken literally.

The case about The Legend of the Legendary Heroes. I did a brief google search about this. Densetsu no Yuusha no Densetsu is the Japanese equivalent of the unicode version of the novel/series that translates into The Legend of the Legendary Heroes. The Japanese version would be the preferred romanization and 伝説の勇者の伝説 would be in Source field.

The reason I don't want to go into a split where we take "official" romanizations and keep unicode for the rest is because it would look quite disorganized. Take a look at https://osu.ppy.sh/p/beatmaplist right now; hover your cursor over each song. Half of the Japanese/anime songs are romanized, the other half aren't, and it looks incredibly messy. Enforcing an all-Unicode rule would solve this.

i'd like to suggest that for non-romanized cases, the romanized source text should be put in tags for searching

Dilapidated request which has since been ameliorated by other RC changes and romanised metadata support.

Marking as invalid.