JENNNNNNYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYMarcin wrote:
if you're hardcore enough, you should be able to play with BG, THAT'S _ING HARDCORE.
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90% Dimming limit: Why?
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Since I was lured here, my 2ct for you people and all the cryhards: Learn to play the game and adapt to it, don't force the thing to adapt to your needs.
Bubblepoptime!
EAT MY COLORS, BITCHES /o/
Bubblepoptime!
EAT MY COLORS, BITCHES /o/
More like it's just the players' eyes that fails to read those notes with BG on. I'm going with Jenny:DADDYCOOLVIP wrote:
While that's what you would assume, I've talked to one good player about it and apparently the majority of great players eg white wolf and all those kind of people disable the backgrounds. This is more evidence that having no background gives you an advantage.
Also the hardcore players will take any advantage they can get, which is why there is a lot of complaints about the feature- it puts the newer players at a disadvantage and alienates the hardcore crowd (as I've mentioned)
Jenny wrote:
Learn to play the game and adapt to it, don't force the thing to adapt to your needs.
Winshley wrote:
More like it's just the players' eyes that fails to read those notes with BG on. I'm going with Jenny:Jenny wrote:
Learn to play the game and adapt to it, don't force the thing to adapt to your needs.
funny how the guys who defend BG deleting and the guys who defend BG keeping are on the same level of stupidity.
this discussion is old, repetitive, and everybody from either side should finally accept the things like they currently are. saying that BG deleters don't have skill is as wrong as saying that BG deleting is important for high level play.
this discussion is old, repetitive, and everybody from either side should finally accept the things like they currently are. saying that BG deleters don't have skill is as wrong as saying that BG deleting is important for high level play.
You know, this might be a little off-topic, but all this fun spoiler discussions make me think... is it what the mapper really wants? In my case, I wouldn't really mind if people disabled or not my storyboards. I'd totally hate if they disabled my skin, but the storyboard or Kiai I can see why; just as an example.
So, what about the idea of letting the mapper choose what to disable and what not? For some gimmick maps it'd totally destroy the joke, and in that case, everyone would still have the same advantages and disadvantages.
Well, I guess that's more of a feature request than anything.
As for the thread... eh, it's already clear enough it's not going to change. Players should already feel lucky the Fun Spoiler feature was added. If people keep whining about it, it might get removed, even.
Even if there's an advantage, it's a very minimal advantage that can be easily overcome.
So, what about the idea of letting the mapper choose what to disable and what not? For some gimmick maps it'd totally destroy the joke, and in that case, everyone would still have the same advantages and disadvantages.
Well, I guess that's more of a feature request than anything.
As for the thread... eh, it's already clear enough it's not going to change. Players should already feel lucky the Fun Spoiler feature was added. If people keep whining about it, it might get removed, even.
Even if there's an advantage, it's a very minimal advantage that can be easily overcome.
Funny how the one person following me likely everywhere just opens up more shit and insults :v
Also, I know the feel Gens, the idea seems to be good - also, alternating BGs the mapper could give as "replacemental components" (as for example, for colorblind people?), wouldn't be a bad adition.
Also, I know the feel Gens, the idea seems to be good - also, alternating BGs the mapper could give as "replacemental components" (as for example, for colorblind people?), wouldn't be a bad adition.
Topic Starter
This'd be a decent solution, actually. Also, every old map made before the update would have the background deletable for fairness. If it was like that, peppy could have his way about the new maps, and the hardcores could have their way as well.Gens wrote:
You know, this might be a little off-topic, but all this fun spoiler discussions make me think... is it what the mapper really wants? In my case, I wouldn't really mind if people disabled or not my storyboards. I'd totally hate if they disabled my skin, but the storyboard or Kiai I can see why; just as an example.
So, what about the idea of letting the mapper choose what to disable and what not? For some gimmick maps it'd totally destroy the joke, and in that case, everyone would still have the same advantages and disadvantages.
Well, I guess that's more of a feature request than anything.
As for the thread... eh, it's already clear enough it's not going to change. Players should already feel lucky the Fun Spoiler feature was added. If people keep whining about it, it might get removed, even.
Even if there's an advantage, it's a very minimal advantage that can be easily overcome.
Thanks for the good idea, I'll update the OP.
There is no evidence that 90% dim is any less helpful than a black BG. Like I said earlier, I'll eat my graphics tablet if you find some proof of this.DADDYCOOLVIP wrote:
While that's what you would assume, I've talked to one good player about it and apparently the majority of great players eg white wolf and all those kind of people disable the backgrounds. This is more evidence that having no background gives you an advantage.Marcin wrote:
Screw hardcore players, if you're hardcore enough, you should be able to play with BG, THAT'S _ING HARDCORE.
Anyone here has problem with playing with BG? then it's their own fault that they're THAT bad to cheat with BG.
Uh i have deja vu, i said it, but, who cares.
Also the hardcore players will take any advantage they can get, which is why there is a lot of complaints about the feature- it puts the newer players at a disadvantage and alienates the hardcore crowd (as I've mentioned)
I'd like peppy to comment on this thread, hopefully he'll notice it.
I agree with Jenny as well.
Topic Starter
I can't provide scientific proof, but the fact that the hardcore players are complaining about 90% dim instead of total removal on top of how peppy thinks 100% dim is "cheating" shows that at least peppy, the person I'm trying to convince, believes that the extra 10% does indeed affect gameplay.Mithost wrote:
There is no evidence that 90% dim is any less helpful than a black BG. Like I said earlier, I'll eat my graphics tablet if you find some proof of this.
I agree with Jenny as well.
Not to jump in the middle of things here, but I'd like to show off a comparison between 90% and black background. I left my own skin on.
When was the last time you were ever actually distracted by a map background? Be honest.
Play a map with just a background. And then play it with 90% dim. And finally, play it with a black background. Come back and tell me just how much the background stole away your eyes in the middle of things. Because I have never, ever blamed the background for screwing me up.
When was the last time you were ever actually distracted by a map background? Be honest.
Play a map with just a background. And then play it with 90% dim. And finally, play it with a black background. Come back and tell me just how much the background stole away your eyes in the middle of things. Because I have never, ever blamed the background for screwing me up.
Peppy labeled editing the mapset's files (which includes removing/editing backgrounds/skins/storyboards) as cheating. He does not think that playing with 100% dim compared to 90% dim is cheating (or maybe I'm wrong, you gotta ask him). "Hardcore" players started complaining before fun spoiler was in place, when peppy said not to remove backgrounds. It's been like a month or two since you could dim the background. Most "hardcore" players don't even know about the background dim because all of their stuff is all removed.
BATs could be able to edit it online (as we already can with online offset and other thingies), in case someone disagrees with something being deletable in an old map. The mapper can then just request a BAT to fix it. That way, everyone who doesn't like it complains about the map and not about osu!~DADDYCOOLVIP wrote:
This'd be a decent solution, actually. Also, every old map made before the update would have the background deletable for fairness. If it was like that, peppy could have his way about the new maps, and the hardcores could have their way as well.
Thanks for the good idea, I'll update the OP.
Scores would be kept, as it makes no sense to delete them; it's not like peppy was planning a score reset for when osz2 came.
I had a feeling the idea had already been brought up and it was shot down, but well, I haven't been really active these days to know what's going on.
LOL Strong logic, then how about not allowing any changes to the map? Let's just keep all BGs at 100%, skins as they are etc if you want to keep your "painting" fully assembled? it should be either that or nothing at all.Mithost wrote:
"If there is no disadvantage for a 90%, then it makes no sense that a 100% dim would be considered cheating"
I'll use the analogy from the last thread. What if you were an artist. You make a nice painting of a mountain, a sunset, whatever you like. You painted that picture to be appreciated the way you made it. A few years later, an art critique walks into the art gallery where your painting is. He walks up to your painting, looks at it for a total of 10 seconds, then takes some scissors and cuts out a slice of your painting, a key part of it to be precise. He then chooses to critique it like he would to any other piece of art. Your first question would be, "Why would this man cut my picture?" His response is, "I can critique your painting better when I remove the distractions."
Also how very nice of you all to speak for every mapper out there. I'm a mapper and I prefer people who play my maps to enjoy my work any way they want, with or without skins or backgrounds, as long as they have fun, I'm happy.
Topic Starter
Gens wrote:
BATs could be able to edit it online (as we already can with online offset and other thingies), in case someone disagrees with something being deletable in an old map. The mapper can then just request a BAT to fix it. That way, everyone who doesn't like it complains about the map and not about osu!~DADDYCOOLVIP wrote:
This'd be a decent solution, actually. Also, every old map made before the update would have the background deletable for fairness. If it was like that, peppy could have his way about the new maps, and the hardcores could have their way as well.
Thanks for the good idea, I'll update the OP.
Scores would be kept, as it makes no sense to delete them; it's not like peppy was planning a score reset for when osz2 came.
I had a feeling the idea had already been brought up and it was shot down, but well, I haven't been really active these days to know what's going on.
I guess at this point we're just waiting for peppy to comment after he reads every counter-argument in this thread to his proposed plan.
Come on, peppy, we're waiting for you!
This isn't a feature request and sadly I don't see why he would reply to this one. I hope he does, but it's not guaranteed.
Topic Starter
This isn't the feature request forum, this is General Development.Mithost wrote:
This isn't a feature request and sadly I don't see why he would reply to this one. I hope he does, but it's not guaranteed.
edit: I just tried out 90% dimming for myself. The background/storyboard is still very noticeable, even after the dimming, and is very different from a 100% removal. It's much more noticeable in gameplay than it is in a screenshot.
It is still a substantial difference in contrast. It's not 100%, but it's compromise. People should feel lucky that peppy actually agreed to add the setting, when for years and years he was 100% apposed to the idea.
Topic Starter
If he can be convinced to go to 90%, he can be convinced to go to 100%. It might take a long time as it has in the past, but I really hope he sees the response and goes back on his current decision, for the best.Mithost wrote:
It is still a substantial difference in contrast. It's not 100%, but it's compromise. People should feel lucky that peppy actually agreed to add the setting, when for years and years he was 100% apposed to the idea.
This is one of the things that bothers me about the toggles. Peppy never ever wanted to add them in: when he did, he added a condition so you could actually appreciate some of the creativity that goes into osu!.Mithost wrote:
It is still a substantial difference in contrast. It's not 100%, but it's compromise. People should feel lucky that peppy actually agreed to add the setting, when for years and years he was 100% apposed to the idea.
So even after getting their toggles, people still complain.
He put it at 90% max for a reason. I don't believe you understand the word compromise.DADDYCOOLVIPPER wrote:
If he can be convinced to go to 90%, he can be convinced to go to 100%. It might take a long time as it has in the past, but I really hope he sees the response and goes back on his current decision, for the best.Mithost wrote:
It is still a substantial difference in contrast. It's not 100%, but it's compromise. People should feel lucky that peppy actually agreed to add the setting, when for years and years he was 100% apposed to the idea.
Topic Starter
I don't believe in compromise when it comes to features like this, just unwillingness to go all the way, for whatever reason.Mithost wrote:
He put it at 90% max for a reason. I don't believe you understand the word compromise.
Well it's his game and no matter what people complain about, he doesn't have to change anything. Stop whining about 10% background dim differences.
I love how this one random guy "represents" all these "hardcore" players of osu!
What creativity are you talking about? Googling a random image and putting it as the background is nothing creative. The creativity itself exists in osu! in the form of beatmaps (their patterns and rhythm), not the image under them. If the map is good it will keep being good even if you delete the image of it. Though if you want to mask your beatmaps' faults then you add a cutie nice bg that brings people to play it.Doodley wrote:
Peppy never ever wanted to add them in: when he did, he added a condition so you could actually appreciate some of the creativity that goes into osu!.
As a mapper/(hardcore) player/modder/MAT:
THE MAPS ARE JUST ENOUGH.
Some reason for me, I actually like having a background. I feel like I'm missing something important if it's just black, so even before this fun spoiler thing, I rarely removed the background. I only did if I was extremely determined to FC something, or the bg was just way too overwhelmingly colorful, which not that many maps were imo.fartownik wrote:
THE MAPS ARE JUST ENOUGH.
For me, the background is actually important, even if I do use 90% dim. But probably that's because i'm weird.
Topic Starter
Adding the option to remove the background won't hinder you from doing what you want, though. The only people this change affects are the ones who would have a problem with it, so why have the change in the first place?winber1 wrote:
Some reason for me, I actually like having a background. I feel like I'm missing something important if it's just black, so even before this fun spoiler thing, I rarely removed the background. I only did if I was extremely determined to FC something, or the bg was just way too overwhelmingly colorful, which not that many maps were imo.fartownik wrote:
THE MAPS ARE JUST ENOUGH.
For me, the background is actually important, even if I do use 90% dim. But probably that's because i'm weird.
*looks at this guy's profile*CXu wrote:
I love how this one random guy "represents" all these "hardcore" players of osu!
9 warnings - a lot related to various forms of trolling - in about a week, and he can't even easily FC Hards on top of that? Well, damn, this has got to be the most effective trolling attempt on osu! that I've ever seen.
EDIT: And now he'll claim that he's not a troll and then the topic will dissolve into a flame war and then get locked. Just watch. ;P
My popcorn is ready.
Topic Starter
I know you called it but I'm not trolling, a very skilled player was talking to me about it and said that he and a few others would stop playing if peppy disallowed the ability to remove a storyboard and that it'd cause imbalance, so I made a thread about it.Ekaru wrote:
*looks at this guy's profile*
9 warnings - a lot related to various forms of trolling - in about a week, and he can't even easily FC Hards on top of that? Well, damn, this has got to be the most effective trolling attempt on osu! that I've ever seen.
EDIT: And now he'll claim that he's not a troll and then the topic will dissolve into a flame war and then get locked. Just watch. ;P
A very skilled player and his friends are scrubs and cant handle backgrounds.
Topic Starter
I'm afraid I'll have to trust the very skilled player and his friends over you, they are the professionals after allMithost wrote:
A very skilled player and his friends are scrubs and cant handle backgrounds.
You are a scrub. Good day sir.Mithost wrote:
A very skilled player and his friends are scrubs and cant handle backgrounds.
I just need to add this too: stop posting.
You are trying to form an argument by insulting people.
Just came back to add this: seriously stop.
Really I can't emphasize this enough: leave.
apologize to all the actual posters.
go away.Mithost wrote:
lollll this "argument" is going downhill fast now.
Seriously this thread was going great but someone had to insult a group of people they don't even know.
go away srslyMithost wrote:
lollll this "argument" is going downhill fast now.
Topic Starter
jesus1412 wrote:
go away.Mithost wrote:
lollll this "argument" is going downhill fast now.
Seriously this thread was going great but someone had to insult a group of people they don't even know.
Keep it to PM, you're adding to the problem even though you want to help get this to peppy.
All we can do is wait, now.
"I don't think peppy will give into your ideas"
"Get out"
Well that escalated quickly.
Anyways... If you really want to get peppy to see this, PM him. You can argue this with him. Me leaving this thread wont get peppy here any quicker. :/
"Get out"
Well that escalated quickly.
Anyways... If you really want to get peppy to see this, PM him. You can argue this with him. Me leaving this thread wont get peppy here any quicker. :/
Topic Starter
actually I just had a thought
The more you post, the more noticeable it is in the forums, keep posting!
(just joking, I'll PM peppy a link to this thread now)
The more you post, the more noticeable it is in the forums, keep posting!
(just joking, I'll PM peppy a link to this thread now)